I booked a bear hunt up in Maine for this fall and have to decide which 99 to take.

Before I started to give it any real thought, I just assumed I'd take my "R" in .300 Savage and use 180 grain Core-Lokts.

But I have enough options to choose from that I'm getting second thoughts about it. I can't help but think I might want to try for something a little more old-school.

I also have a Ruger #1 S Tropical in 45-70 and a Remington 7600 carbine in 35 Whelen, which I know would be excellent choices but are not 99's so they will probably stay home.

So, this is sort of an informal poll combined with a chance to hear what other's first-hand experiences are with the following calibers on bears, all of which I have.

The 25-35 and 250-3000 probably not contenders but the 38-55 is tempting.

What say you?


25-35 Winchester
38-55 Winchester
.250-3000
.300 Savage
.303 Savage
.308 Winchester
.358 Winchester
.375 Winchester

I’d go with the 308

What type of hunt is it? Hounds or bait.

Bait with shots no more than 50 yards to the baiting area.

45-70 300 gr bullet.

I'd take the 303

I shot first bear with 50 cal black powder.
2nd with 99EG 300 sav.
3rd with Sav 99 in 375.
4th with 100 year old 1899 in 303 Sav.
They all work just fine. The last bear took a 2nd shot cause my neck shot missed the spine by about 1 inch and he got up and took off...

In my woodpile/snowbank tests (highly scientific NASA type schidt) for sheer penetration...the .38-55 hands down, 255 grain cruise missile. But the test was invalid because it was shot with an 1893 Marlin.

The 303 190 grain

The 250 3000 worked on several for me out to 200 yds

The 7600 in .35 Whelen would do nicely! If you wanted to use a 99, I would most likely pick the 99-.358 brush gun. That 99 is the bear rifle!

That's good. Nice and close.
I agree with Fug, .303 190gr is classic and will do nicely.

Some think "bear" and automatically over gun. It's a black bear not a grizzly.

I use archery here in WI. 5 for 5 at ~25'. None got out of sight.

I believe in insurance.

This might be adequate.

I had one and a 116 Weather Warrior SS "Safari" in 375 H&H. The 375 H&H had a CRF system.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/972945400

In reality, a 99 358 is my idea of a bear rifle.

Come on. The .300 Savage. The utilmate Savage round. 150 or 180...........you choose. Maybe not Remington though as the bullet jacket is not quite as strong in the .300 but it will do the job. 180 for sure. If you reload, the possibilities are endless.

I was talking to a Game Warden in Mathias WV about bear, because they started showing up on my place. He said they are not hard to put down, and his bear gun was a 243. He asked what my deer rifle was and I said a 250. He said if he were me, he would use the 250. I'm not making any recommendations, just repeating what he said.

I have hunted and killed bears in British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan, Canada. If it were me, I would take the 358 Win. Like Luv2Safari, I prefer to hunt with a little more than is necessary. I have tracked wounded bears and I don't like it.

T.S.

For what it is worth, my son is going with me and he is intent on using his Browning A-bolt slugger with Lightfield Bears, Bucks and Boars slugs which have a 465 grain 73 caliber sabot round of controlled expansion design.

From Lightfield: "(IDS) Impact Discarding Sabot Series: – The BBB 2 3/4″ 465gr. @ 1600 ft/sec. with a massive 2,643 ft-lbs of energy"

He said he likes the idea of letting the air out of a bear with a hole that you can slip a broomstick through.

They don't make these sabot shells anymore but we have a nice supply of them.

I know this is a Savage thread but lately I can't get the 45-70 out of my mind in spite of what I said above.

At 50 yards any of them will do it with a good bullet and you doing your job.

38-55 would be classy. The 303, 300, 358 or 375 would be other choices.

savage .303 or my custom savage 38-55

Why even own a .358 or 375 if you're not going to take them on a bear hunt??

358 shooting a 180 Barnes ttsx is serious business.

I have a Savage so called in 45-70 if you get hard up

Black bear 101

Are black bears dangerous?

that's so touchy/feelie I don't think I could shoot one now.

It’s as much challenge as you make it. That’s why I use archery.
The meat is absolutely delicious.

Me being un-politically correct I would shoot one given the chance. They are a big powerful animal and they have attacked people. We had one in our neighborhood many years ago. The Democrats next door thought it was cool having him running around the neighborhood. He came face to face with one of the other neighbors and they scared the s--t out of each other. Game and Fish live trapped him in my yard. While in the cage he acted like he would tear us to pieces.
The bottom line is bears are like people, different ones have different personalities. I'm not going to play the percentages and try to get touch/feelie with one. To each his own.

Any of those cartridges will work fine. 358 or 300 would be my choices but I’m biased since I have those. Better question might be what rifle has the best sighting system for a black target in the dark woods with daylight about gone?

Dale

Bingo!

Dale, that's my biggest stressor. Some of the guns have "classic" scopes that look cool but in reality blow in low light.

My .300, 38-55, and .303 are ready to go with decent glass. The .375 and .358 not so good and the .308 needs bases rings and a scope.

That's an excellent point. Black on black is black.
If able to hit him in the heart/lungs, he's dead in seconds. If not, could be a tough day.
The heart/lungs is about the size of a coffee can. And if they are not broadside stretched out it's difficult to identify that spot right behind the shoulder.
Many times I've had to wait quite a while for just the right angle. They're either facing you, sitting down, laying down, etc. Granted a bullet is more forgiving than a broadhead.
Get in early, 3 hours so scent settles down. Downwind too.
Get a camera out for a scouting report. Could be a morning bear or evening. I've had both.
When is season?
Look forward to story and pics!

Shot both of mine with 30/06, i also have a tag for this fall, im leaning towards 358, or 20 gauge slug gun this time , as i will be trying to get one with hounds. Good luck

If you choose the 38-55 Don't use the Winchester factory, or Ideal factory ammo! Lost 2 different bears , one each with the factory ammo. Rifle was a Marlin 1893. Shot a 300lb bear 3 times with win.. Ammo and shot a 400 plus bear 2 rounds with the Ideal. I think all were 200 grain bullets. Shots were 10- 25 yards, yes blood was drawn but little.

I have Buffalo Bore 38-55 ammo and have used it in my 1899. Shoots 2 inches higher at 50 yards but never had any high pressure issues.

Savage 250, what 20 gauge slugs are you planning on using? I have a CSMC double 20 slug gun that could use.

Brenneke K O’s, I believe they are 3/4 ounce.

Also be aware if hunting in steep ground, bears run downhill when shot. "Always". Had one run over me when I stuck him with an arrow at 15 yards. Thankfully I didn't have to kick his azz. LOL

The 358 Winchester gets my vote! BUT, NOT using old factory Winchester Silver Tips. They are way too soft. You need to handload for the 358 to get the most out of it. 225 grain Woodleigh round nose over a stiff dose of Ramshot TAC would be my go-to.

Leupold scopes in 1 by 4 power or 1.5 by 5 are real good for close range dark conditions.

I've heard about Silvertips being too soft. I remember reading that there were two versions, with the softer one being responsible for the bad reputation.

If I use the .358 I'd use from my stash of Hornady 200 Grain interlock SP ammunition. If you believe their web site, they are rated for game up to 1,500 lbs, which is a hell of a lot bigger than anything I'm going to see.

They are factory loaded and the literature says they leave the muzzle at 2,475 fps with 2,720 foot pounds of energy.

This early thread deserves a conclusion.

In the end I took a Savage 99 in .300 savage and a 12-gauge Benelli Super Black Eagle dedicated slug gun.

The night before at orientation, my outfitter said that if he had a choice, he'd take the Benelli, since it had a Zeiss scope on it and the sabot slugs I use are Winchester Partition Gold's that send a 385-grain 50 caliber partition slug down the barrel at 1,900 FPS. (this outclasses a most of 45-70 loads available). I'm sure the 180 grain Remington Core Lokt bullets would have been ok from the 99 but he said every year guys lose bears due to the lack of sign after the hit, so I took his advice.

I got a complete pass-through and the almost 300 lb. dry sow piled up in about 20 yards. This picture shows the exit side.

The slugs sure did the job and then some, but I keep wishing I used the 99.

Congrats!
Some good eat’in there.

Many bears are killed each year with 30-30s loaded with 150gr and 170gr flat point bullets.

Congrats on a nice bear!

I’ve killed many black bear over the years with my 300 savage model 99. The 300 is more than enough for black bear. 150 or 180 gr will do the job just fine. The last one I shot went a mere 25 yds after one shot with the 300 through the lungs.

99F 300 Sav

What was your backup plan if the bear didn't go down on the first shot?
- 2nd shot?
- let the dogs find him?
- have the sherpa cocked and aiming?

I would choose best first-shot potential, which would likely be 358W for me.

Thanks for sharing Your success story!

Take this as you may. When bear started showing up on my property I ask the DNR agent local to me what I should use if I get a tag. He said they go down easy, what ever you use for deer, as long as you are a decent shot. If you can’t hit the broad side of a barn, nothing is good. If I got a tag it would be for close woods hunting from a stand. Since I shoot close deer and pigs in the eye, I would probably stick with my 250R. But, to keep from having people calling me stupid in public, I may use my F in 303 with 190 Silvertips, because that’s all I have for it. If presented the shot, shoot it in the eye.

Perfect. I am happy you filled your tag.

I'd NOT use any factory 38-55 ammo, on bears. I lost 2 one season, one with winchester ammo and one with Imperiol Canadian ammo . To weak. We think the 300 lb bear died, as it was a trouble maker, never seen again. We couldn't find it, I hit it 3 times. The 500lb was hit twice, and little blood. Never found.

In the end, as long as you use a Savage 99 it'll work. Some better than others. But a shotgun is so utilitarian.

Not to be a smart azz Joe but what makes a WV DNR agent an expert on what rifle you should use to kill a bear?

Probably never shot one or even shot at one in his life. DNR guys work during hunting season.

And if you shoot them in the eye might as well use the HP on bears. They work great on tigers....

If you are happy with the outcome we should all be happy for you. Glad you got your bear.

All I can say is that the bear I shot had 5 inches of fat all around the vital area.

That can plug up a smaller hole and leave you with no sign.

Exactly.

Two big holes on each side makes for easy recoveries. One small caliber wound plugged up with fat can equal a dead bear not recovered.

This can also apply to deer and other game especially mature bucks in certain circumstances, that include thick brush, dry leaves, cut agriculture fields, wet weather or in close proximity to an unfriendly neighbor's property border. Big bucks can carry a fatal wound a long ways. Dead on their feet, yep, but they can travel a loooong ways in 15 or 20 seconds. Leave them overnight you say? Not in Virginia where they will most likely spoil or be devoured by coyotes by first light.

Ask me how I know these things...

I think it boils down to what cartridge fits into the definition of a humane kill at the time and circumstances of the shot. A small dinky deer standing still for a close up precision shot - a .22HP would be the t*ts (or heck, even a .22 Hornet, or .25-20, or somesuch, or even a .22 LR). But what if the only shot you're presented on any animal, deer or bear, is a kind of sketchy one you could execute if you had something with some punch in your hands (and mind you it's the rare game shot that isn't sketchy in one way or another)? Do you take the shot anyway and risk losing the animal to a slow painful death hidden away where you'll never find it? Or, do you employ ethics and chalk it up to "the one that got away"? The deer/bear woods is not the place to show off - the animals deserve better. There's a lot of truth in the old saw "use enough gun". (And sometimes "the one that got away" stories can be as entertaining as "the dead deer I got last week" stories ).

I think Roger did the correct thing under the circumstances. Kudos for a well played kill on a great trophy. There aren't many Savage lever guns out there with the kind of savage power needed to punch through the innards of a large beast creating a massive wound channel such as what we see in Roger's bear. To my mind there's only a couple - the .358 and .284, and then only with good bullets. All the rest can, and certainly will, do the job (especially with carefully chosen premium bullets), under most circumstances, but will they do it under ALL circumstances not just perfectly presented shots? It boils down, again, to ethics and how each of us uniquely defines that term.

Some guys have such high levels of blood lust that they'll take a risky shot because somehow they weirdly believe that they'll be judged a lesser man if they don't fill their tag come hell or high water. For those guys no gun/cartridge combo is the correct answer, rather a schooling in ethics and adjustment of philosophy would pay bigger dividends.

If presented with an opportunity such as what Roger enjoyed, I would've taken not a Savage 99 because I don't own one in one of its truly romper-stomper chamberings, rather a .30-06 with 180 TSX's or 220 cup-and-core traditional bullets, or better yet a .40-70 or .45-70 with a 400 grain lead bullet that would've equaled Roger's shotgun slug load.

i took a Savage s.s. 110 rebarreled and chambered this rifle to a 350 Rem. mag 21 inch barrel . rifle shoots a 225 gr Nosler Partition 2850 FPS 3/4 at 100 yards .

Thanks for all the feedback and personal anecdotes. I do enjoy the banter.

On a slug gun thread people would probably argue about the brand of sabots, Optics thread, choice of scope. Its all good fun to read IMO.

One guy lost a bear he shot with a .338 Win Mag. That'll haunt him cause you know it was shot placement that was the reason. In that case it was the Indian not the arrow as they say.

That is a lot of fat on that bear, at least by our skinny bear standards. Good choice on the weapon because of that.

I think it might have been Bob Milek that said:

And I am paraphrasing, and it might not have been Bob Milek, but another gun writer:

Don't use a gun that will kill your quarry when everything goes right, use a gun that will kill your quarry when everything goes wrong.

Generally: There is a lot of truth in that statement.

Experienced hunters and riflemen know that especially under field conditions when shooting at game, things don't always go according to the plan.

Here is another very general statement:

"Most hunters overestimate their shooting prowess." 99Guy said that.

I finally found a problem I don't have. Thanks buddy!

LOL

Not to belabor this point but since we are on the subject, the picture below is a very nice mature buck I killed in Virginia a few years ago. It was shot with a 300 Savage 180 grain Federal soft point. Pictured is the entry wound. The bullet exited the offside right behind the last rib.



The bullet cleaned out his entire vital system. He was standing in a dirt cut cornfield right at last light. After impact in about 5 seconds, he took about 10 or 12 jumps and was off the cornfield, he crossed a dirt road on the neighbor's property, and he was gone. Try finding blood on dirt in the pitch dark even with a good light. Found one drop of blood on a stone in the dirt road. Had to track down the landowner and get permission to follow the deer. I knew I hit him good and told the landowner I was confident the deer was dead, I just needed to find it. Luckily, he gave me permission to go after it. After it got across that dirt road it got in the nastiest tangle of multiflora rose and briars and autumn olive you can imagine. Stuff that will tear your clothes off. He started bleeding a little better and after about 2 hours I found him. He travelled about 250 yards or so. Probably took 15 or 20 seconds for the deer to make that trip. The ONLY reason I recovered that deer is because I had 2 large holes to bleed out of. If I would have shot that deer with a 250 Savage with 87 or 100 grain soft point bullet, no way no how I recover that deer. He would have been just as dead, but never would have got him. Coyotes would have feasted on him. Not because I'm not a good shot or made a bad decision and an unethical shot, but because I took the wrong gun.

I hear that. ^^^^

Nothing like breaking down their transportation system, but in lieu of that big holes! We all "know" premium bullets aren't required but at bad angles and heavy bones they work way better.

You guys keep this up and I'll go back to hunting elk with my 300 Weatherby.

I would go with the tried and true .303 Savage with 190 grain bullets. This is a bear I took under identical circumstance as you describe (70 yards over bait) a few years back. Went just under 400 pounds. The 190 passed completely through the bear heart/lung zone and he went 8 yards and piled up. Great performance from a grand old cartridge.
Darryl

Darryl, your post makes me feel better about using a 99 on elk.

I’ve knocked down a half dozen moose over the years with my 300 savage. It should work fine for bear. Nothing over 200 yards and open sites. Not a problem.

Congrats Trapper.

Those 303s having been doing the job for a while now.

303=panache.

If your fortunate enough to have one, use it.

I have killed 2 bears with a 99F in 300 savage and 150 Hornady SST (#30303) handloads. Did on fine job on both of them.

50 yard shots?

Did savage make a recurve?

.303…….would be awesome.

I am sitting in the bear stand with my 375 right now, but your comments on the 303 are too convincing! Tomorrow, I will definitely bring my old 303 instead.

Is the 375 in the Big Bore?

What fun. If that were my stable of 99s I would take the .358.

Then .375

Then .300

Savage 99 brush gun, chambered in 375 winchester.

I thought I'd stir the pot some more and post this chart of the Taylor Knock Out Value of different loads that I found. I did the calculator for the Winchester Partition Gold sabots I was using and got 52.25 more than double the KO value of a 30-06 which the chart shows totals 20 and well above even a .375 H&H magnum at 38.8.



The web site had this to say:

"The "Taylor Knock Out Index" was developed by John Taylor. John Talyor was an extremely experienced African hunter. His formula was based on killing thousands of large game animals with nearly any caliber you can imagine. This formula was designed to give you a relative momentum figure adjusted for bullet diameter. Taylor called it a "power yardstick" for African rifles. The higher the number the better. For example the 44 Magnum handgun, which most handgunners consider an acceptable hunting caliber with its standard 240 grain load at 1400 fps with a 0.429 diameter bullet gets a Taylor KO of 20 (try that above). A fairly typical 454 Casull 300 grain handgun load gets a Taylor KO of 30. A standard 12 gauge shotgun slug load gets a Taylor KO of 53."

Buddy and I went out this morning to fill his tag and saw two bears. I can tell you a 7 STW works pretty good.

If this damn bear gets into my trash again tonight I think I'll be trying out a 45-70 or maybe 300 savage.

.303 all the way

Love hunting bear! They are such interesting animals. I have been blessed to be able to watch probably 75 from elevated stands. On one of my most memorable hunts I had one bluff charge me as I climbed down from my stand.

It would be fun to shoot one with my .303, but so far I’ve taken two with my recurve bows. The biggest bear squared nearly 7’. If you hit them where you should they die pretty quickly. Both of mine died within about fifty yards or so.

I've taken all of my bears with 300 Savage. I got my first with a cheap cup and core bullet. Not recommended. I took so many lead fragments out from all sorts of odd places. Everything else has been with Nosler Ballistic Tip or Hornady SST 150 grain and every bear has been dropped close to where they stood.