Who wants to show there Ammo
Can we look at all Savage ammo
Doug, Mine is just strewed around here and there, Not nicely organized like yours !
Savage and Savage caliber (plus couple others). Best I can do for the moment. More later...
I still drool over the pics i took of yours. Lol. I need to make another trip!!
I think there is a lot of history in the ammo just hoped we can
show people what is missing in the Savage cartridge world
ammo boxes - power cans -and other stuff.
I think there is a lot of history in the ammo just hoped we can
show people what is missing in the Savage cartridge world
ammo boxes - power cans -and other stuff.
That is a fairly large topic.
UMC ammo for Savage
Early Savage ammo 1900 - WWI
Savage powder cans
Savage reloading tools
Savage ammo WWI - WWII
Savage ammo post WWII
What'd I forget....?
Rifle ammo
pistol ammo
ammo advertising
...
Their is more than I know that is why I have posted it here something
that needs new blood the Savage ammo book gives us a start lets
build on that I can't do photos on this box or I would put up some
stuff to start people here have been talking about high power
to much power Savage had low power loads also lets build
this up things are getting dull.
Here's some of mine. Small selection compared to what's out there. I've got a few others in storage..
Here's some I saw at Tulsa on Fug's table a number of years ago..
Yep.
Nice branch of the Savage tree that doesn't get discussed much.
Good idea.
Here is just some of the ammo collection. I didn't have room for all of it. Fug1899, when Kurt came to visit you showed him some ammo boxes. How many different variations are there to the savage ammo boxes.
[img]
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i/ft4CXQE1QVTxY3Rw24IyrOEzXb23/IMG_0004.HEIC[/img]
[img]
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i/ft4CXQE1QVTxY3Rw24IyrOEzXb23/IMG_0007.HEIC[/img]
I can cover the powder cans. I have 7 variations and that is all I know of at this time. Still looking for someone that can tell me if there are others.
Also, have a full set of Savage reloading tools as do several others here on the 24.
If folks want, I'd be happy to set up some subject areas with pictures and descriptions on my website.
If folks want, I'd be happy to set up some subject areas with pictures and descriptions on my website.
That sounds like a super idea! Your web site could become a very popular place with content like this and more!!
Something I never noticed and never thought to ask: did Savage ever market rimfire ammo, or even do any R&D on it?
Something I never noticed and never thought to ask: did Savage ever market rimfire ammo, or even do any R&D on it?
Not aware of any production. ?? R&D? No idea.
Fugs post got me thinking and looking again.
It's another Savage rabbit hole for sure.
Boxes, labels, variations, head stamps and more.
If interested, Zimmerman's book is a useful resource.
Savage Ammunition
Here are some of the Savage pistol ammo boxes I have.
Note the subtle differences in box style and labels over the years. Head stamps vary too.
.32's.380'sEven the head stamps on the label can vary!
Can't see the headstamps in the box 'cause it's sealed.
Nice to know, but the ultimate question is how well do they shoot?
Nice to know, but the ultimate question is how well do they shoot?
10 Shots Quick !
Something I never noticed and never thought to ask: did Savage ever market rimfire ammo, or even do any R&D on it?
I think it was Ralph that told me a long time ago he saw 22 Ammunition listed in one of the Savage catalogs, a few years alter I found what I think might be what he was referring to in the 1904 pocket catalog, but I don't think it was Savage branded ammunition, you have to look at the other ammunition pages in that catalog to see that Savage made was marked with an asterisk, and none of the 22 listings are.
Note that primed cases could be purchased for the hand loader - if you wanted to load with blackpowder 1000 case was $0.50 less than if you intended to load with smokeless (some early marketing trick???).
Here are the other ammunition pages for reference -
PS, all of those who set-up at the PA Savage Fest were give a reproduction copy of this catalog.
The .22 rimfire rounds I remember seeing in the Savage paper items were head stamped "P" for Peters.
I'm a little late to this one.
My cartridge display
1895 box of miniature cartridges
top
end
open box with a loaded miniature round
Here is the ammo picture, Doug. Again, I am sorry for the delay.
Maybe one of you gurus could rotate this 90 degrees for Doug. I couldn't get it done.
Question on the primers: Are the individual primers marked? I have two boxes but neither is open. Wondering if they have a "S" stamp?
For those that might not know what they are looking at... bullet boxes, Savage Red Oil bottles, primer box, 2 packs of Savage toy rifle balls and a Savage desk sign. Partial ammo boxes at very top.
How's this LBK?
How's this LBK?
Thank you, Mike.
I have questions about the box in the lower left corner of Davids photo...
This box style is reported to have been manufactured from 1923 through 1931.
It was originated by Savage and can be identified by the "Manufactured by Savage Arms Corp." statement on the back of the early boxes.
It appears that Savage then contracted with USCCo in late 1926 to assume production of Savage brand ammunition. At that same time USCCo sold the company to Winchester who agreed to continue manufacture under the USCC name for at least 10 years. (Not sure if the contract was made before or after the sale.) This ammo can be identified with the "Made in the USA" statement on the back of the box.
In 1927 Winchester introduced corrosion free priming followed by USCCo in 1928. At that time USCCo added a small blue sticker to the Savage box front advising of the change.
My question is what calibers and markings do you have in this box style?
I have:
.300 Sav, Manufactured by Savage, no sticker (pre-1927?)
.300 Sav, Made in USA, blue sticker (post 1927?)
.250-3000, Made in USA, no sticker (have 5) (1927?)
This is some of the ammo I am hoping to add to my collection. Minus the brass plate.
girlguncollecto,
.32 S&W, lower right corner. What is on the back? Manufactured by Savage, or Made in USA?
I think I answered my own question. Should be Savage production.
Note the center group (1924 - 1927) all showing 2 piece boxes. This group is the Savage produced cartridges. (as a correction, the 25-20, 32-20, and all the other hand gun rounds are packaged in one piece boxes)
The last group are the USCCo produced rounds. Note that all the Remington (4), 25-35 and all handgun rounds have been dropped. The .30-06 loadings have been added. All USCCo production would have been in the 2 piece box. I think "No inside flaps" should only be listed for the 25-20 and 32-20 in the one piece box. The other rounds were packed in the two piece box.
As for the blue sticker, my thinking is that it was only on the USCCo boxes. Was it on all of the 3 years of production or only on maybe the first year of production... till the new wore off and everyone was suppling non-corrosive?
The 32 S&W Black Powder Manufactured by Savage Arms Corporation.
This box has 1918 hand written on it.
Trimmed up a bit for ya, LBK / Fug
Great picture! I would like to post some photos, but can't seem to make it work. Any help???
"The 32 S&W Black Powder Manufactured by Savage Arms Corporation. This box has 1918 hand written on it."
Doug, I see no indication that Savage produced/sold black powder revolver rounds till the1923 ad. The red box ammo is the only listed and it was dropped when production switched to USCCo.
I like to see it all very nice collection keep it coming.
Forgot the Western' s
"The 32 S&W Black Powder Manufactured by Savage Arms Corporation. This box has 1918 hand written on it."
Doug, I see no indication that Savage produced/sold black powder revolver rounds till the1923 ad. The red box ammo is the only listed and it was dropped when production switched to USCCo.
Just looked through pricelists also. No black powder handgun cartridges until the Jan 2, 1923 pricelist. I checked 1920/1921/1922.
Question on the primers: Are the individual primers marked? I have two boxes but neither is open. Wondering if they have a "S" stamp?
For those that might not know what they are looking at... bullet boxes, Savage Red Oil bottles, primer box, 2 packs of Savage toy rifle balls and a Savage desk sign. Partial ammo boxes at very top.
I could use some of those toy rifle balls!
Rick,
What is the marking on the back of the 300Sav box with the blue stick on it?
...and note the Bear boxes
...and note the Bear boxes 5 rows down.
The box on the left states Nickel Silver jacket, it is pre-WWII
The box on the right states Silver Colored Jacket and is post -WWII.
The green Remington boxes where the product number starts with a letter are pre-WWII while the all numeric coded ones are post-WWII.
Rick,
What is the marking on the back of the 300Sav box with the blue stick on it?
Made in USA.
Reproduction. Designed so you can fill and seal.
The 4 styles of Cross Boxes. Book states 3 but there are 4. SVG, Blank, Early Chief, Last Chief. I think the Blank is second but not positive.
Looks like the ones 1899sav made
This is a Repeating Arms box. Note headstamp i "303 SRA Co". UMC produced the first .303s for Savage.
1st box has no label and is reported to be a House Brand box sold to Sears...?
2nd is a later (22HP) Corporation box.
3rd, this is the back of the box. I think this is the first Company box. Between the Repeating Arms and the later Moose Horn.
box
1st, Repeating Arms box
2nd (303) and the 3rd (32-40 HP) have same labels except the 303 says not to be reloaded while the 32-40 (production 1904 and later) says it can be reloaded.
Backs of the above
Ends of the above
From the left the 4 designs you will find on the two piece boxes:
Repeating Arms, no end seal
2nd is Company marked
3rd, I have this seal on both Company and Corperation marked boxes.
4th is on later Corperation boxes.
Top is last box design with the Warning label.
Lower is the 1st .300 Sav box design and would have been replaced by the 1924 design.
Small caliber rounds for the Model 23 family of rifles. 1931 and later production.
I only have a very few boxes. This particular came in a package with my cased A-2 special,
Last photo for the day. I don't think this box of bullets has been posted, Savage, .25-35, 117 gr.
Lots of information rhere
"Lots of information there".
That's one of the nice things about collecting Savage. There is always something to learn and the more you dig the more you realize you have a long way to go.
I bought a 2nd edition of Zimmermans ammo book when it was published. I had some early boxes and a lot of early catalogs, an area he was lacking a lot of info on. I asked him of he wanted some help filling in the blanks. I did the best I could at piecing the early years together. Sent info and photos and it wasn't long till the 3rd revision was out. I'm still learning. Everytime I look through the printing I find something that needs tweaking. That keeps it interesting.
I also have this box, tho mine is in worse shape. Almost totally identical, except mine is labeled FOR 303 SAVAGE MINIATURE on the side label inside the cartridge, no mention of "METAL CASED". The 1897 catalog lists two miniature loads, one with lead and one lead with metal cover. So I have to presume our boxes date to the same timeframe, just different loads.
But I'm not sure if they are cartridges sold thru Savage Arms? Like yours, I think my
label shows UMC 303 SRACo on the headstamp, but also like yours the actual headstamp on the cartridges is UMC 303 SAV. No S.R.A.CO. I wonder if it wasn't UMC ammunition that they just didn't update the label picture for. My box says it's loaded with SPECIAL SMOKELESS POWDER, not SAVAGE BRAND SMOKELESS POWDER - but I'm not sure if any miniature bullet boxes say SAVAGE BRAND SMOKELESS POWDER?
1895 box of miniature cartridges
top
end
open box with a loaded miniature round
Being one of the younger members of this group I appreciate all of the great information I get from everyone!! All the help is greatly appreciated.
Rory, I agree. I think both miniatures are UMC, sold by UMC and not made for Savage. SRA excited only about 3 years and Savage was loading / selling under their own name, SRA, before the Repeating was dropped. It's my understanding that Savage used the square cornered box while UMC used the round cornered box.
I was thinking the same thing on the rounded corner vs square cornered boxes. It'd be nice to find UMC catalogs for 1895 and 1896.
Could Savage have been basically handloading their own cartridges with all 3rd party components by 1897? Enough to meet demand for 5000 rifle owners? I suppose so, they didn't have anything resembling a plant to make primers, brass or metal jacketed bullets. Could have been..
I wouldn't look at UMC as the main source for components.. obscure source tells me they were getting most primers from a company named Waterbury by later 1897. Probably "Waterbury Brass Co." of Waterbury, CT. They mostly did brass wire/fiittings, but an ad I find for Waterbury Brass in 1897 says they are selling Hicks and Berdan primers and the company is listed as an Arms & Ammunition company in 1897 magazines. Maybe they made the brass for Hicks & Berdan primers also? Or maybe Savage just bought Hicks or Berdan primers through Waterbury and called them "Savage" primers?
Wish I had a nickel for every bullet in this thread.
Hope more will be coming.
Don't think I've seen these before.
The patch bullets are interesting. So is the UMC dummy. Good stuff!
Some more boxes. Bullet boxes and a very scarce Savage primer tin. Also some original 303 savage with paper patched bullets including a UMC salesman dummy.
One with a U marked copper primer so maybe three different rounds in the box. Are all the bullets full metal jacket?
Pretty common for people to combine partial boxes with similar rounds.
Not half and half.. 16 are SRACo, and are all Savage No. 1 I think - lead with full metal cover. Could be No. 3's I suppose, black powder with full metal covered bullet. Bet they're No 1 tho.
4 are UMC and all are expanding, two have the U on the primer.
Mine are all stamped UMC 303 SAV. All appear to be lead bullets and I suppose they could be reloads but all are uniform in length 2.430"-2.431".
[u
rl=https://postimages.org/]
[/url]
The #3 and the #5 came in Black Power the #5 that I have is lead bullet
in 38-55 one box is Moose Horn done in red label one is Moose horn done
in orange label the boxes are not the same on the back.
There were multiple #5's cartridges, by the way.
There was a 303 Savage #5, there was a 32-40 #5, there was a 38-55 #5, etc.
So an early 303 Savage #5 cartridge would be a Paper Patched Schuetzen Target Cartridge (1903 catalog), but a 32-40 or 38-55 #5 cartridge would be a black powder cartridge (1907).
The rarest I had but was bought by Fugg and was the 308 in I think 110 grain? Or was it 120?
I think Savage only made a few cases and I had a box in mint shape.
Post a pic Fugg??
RAS
I have a box yellow with blue lines marked Gambles Airways 190 grain 303 Savage guess these were sold through Gambles stores. Tops gone but a different looking box.
This is a specification Winchester used for its test rifle.
interesting, I have a 1957 vintage 99F that was sent to Winchester. It has a lot of documentation and appears to be in unfired condition. The guy I bought it from thought Win. had gotten it to test 308 ammo.
Very neat rifle, Fug! Great history to it.
FUG, that's a cool rifle, something not everyone has! I like the supporting historical documentation with it!
My new mobile gun rack storage.
Some 1963 child warning label savage ammo
My new mobile gun rack storage.
Recognize the first picture??
Fort Sandflats
This is one of many Winchester test rifles for savage ammo.
Never really thought about it, but it sure makes sense to test manufactured ammo on some sort of time basis.
Must mean there a lot of test guns past and present. ??
My new mobile gun rack storage.
The racks you made look FANTASTIC. Did you make 4 sets total or more? They should be a great help when you start your process. Nice work.
Reproduction. Designed so you can fill and seal.
I would like to purchase some this type of reproduction boxes, Any help for the source would be appreciated.
I'm really liking those envelopes.
Early Savage Indian heads
For you RAS your 308-110 grain bullet ammo and others
Longbeard
I had 6 made 4 for EG style and 2 for the R and T style
also go Two extra's the shop made for me too try the guns in.
As I said, FANTASTIC craftsmanship. Great design. Your guns sit level rather than tipped. And they fit on your shop carts.
Very nice. Great for getting a number out to so, or to document or picture. Lot less running back and forth. Fill up the cart, wheel it over, do your work..
Don't know if the stuff in the bottle is drinkable or not, never been opened
.
Not sure if it worked or not.
Early Savage Indian heads
For you RAS your 308-110 grain bullet ammo and others
Awesome. Thanks Fugg for posting those 110 grain boxes. How rare are they???
So would it be in a red indian box?
Savage always sold their ammo boxed or unboxed. Unboxed was sold by the thousand increments. The following are the boxes savage provided along with the dividers for customers to box ammo themselves. By buying by the thousand and stuffing your own boxes the ammo was cheaper.
Nice job Fug. GREAT boxes and info.
There's some beauties!
Now this is some great Information we did not know that you could just buy the boxes thanks for sharing love this kind of stuff!!!
Savage always sold their ammo boxed or unboxed. Unboxed was sold by the thousand increments. The following are the boxes savage provided along with the dividers for customers to box ammo themselves. By buying by the thousand and stuffing your own boxes the ammo was cheaper.
Is that stated in print somewhere? Those are 1955 or later. I thought they were unused boxes that someone took home. Have you seen a crate marked as not boxed ammo?