I am finally getting around to sharing my experience this deer season with 150 grain Remington Corelokt pointed soft points in .300 savage. The 8 pointer I got dropped like it was hit with Thors hammer but what I recovered when I butchered it concerned me. The photo below shows the total disintegration of the core and seperation from the jacket. What was left was a sort of banana peal of copper. I did hit a lot of bone and what I did recover appeared to have tumbled along the backbone and damaged about 8 inches of backstrap. I'm thinking of switching to something more substantial like hand loaded Nosler Partitions or at least 180 grain factory fodder. Am I over reacting?

No pics!! Ok there you go!!!! See 'em now!!

Mike....

Sorry, see pics.

Corelokts have been killing deer for years. I wouldn't change based on one bullet's reaction to hitting one deer.

Dale

Yeah, I 'm thinkin the fact that it piled up like it was pole axed is all I should care about, not what was recovered when I butchered it.

I think premium bullets do provide better performance. Consistent performance is one dimension of better performance. Given how few bullets are actually fired at game, I think the expense is negligible when it comes to the premium bullets.

Love Nosler Partitions just for the simple reason that they've never done that to me, whether it was a 30-06, 243 or 300 Savage. In one side with small hole, and out the other side with a slightly larger hole. Legs no problem, chest no problem.. Had some factory non-premiums blow up on me over the years like that, can't rightfully tell you what kind they were now since I've been using NP's so long.

But, others swear by other kinds of bullets and I don't have reason to believe they don't work. My confidence level just climbs with NP's, so I stick with them.

And +1 to boltman.. I don't use Partitions for practicing or plinking, just for sighting in for hunting and hunting. Targets don't need Partitions.

I don't call them Core-Loss for nothing, though they are better than a sharp stick, maybe.

They do what they are made for, bringing home the meat. My dad swears by them. As for me, way to much ruined meat, that's why I quit useing them.

A lot of bullets that lose their cores often seem to perform perfectly in that the animal drops in its track. And, if the bullet isn't retrieved, people think that the bullet performed perfectly. This was basically Romac's experience until he found the bullet. I use corelockts for plinking/casual target shooting as well as sighting in. Once I get it right where I want it, then I go to the premium bullet to make sure that is hitting right on. I try to waste as few premium bullets as possible on paper, but never worry about the price of them when I am shooting them at an animal.

While you have received a considerable amount of good advice one thing that I'd caution you on is to be careful that you don't go to too tough a bullet. I've been shooting whitetails for years with .300 Savage Winchester 150 grain Silvertips. The originals, not the ballistic ones that they sell these days. In any event, since I'd had such good experience with the Silvertips in .300 Savage I figured that when I took my .358 Win out to play that the 200 grain Silvertips in that caliber would be just the ticket. What I found out was that for whitetails the .358 Winchester 200 grain Silvertip is just a bit to stout. Instead of expanding I found that they were leaving perfect little .358 holes going in and going out. Don't get me wrong. I'm not adverse to premium bullets. Just take the time to make sure that you're not going too far in the opposite direction trying to compensate for what may appear to be a bullet failure.

You can pay twice the price to feel more confident, or you can use the Core-Lokts and bring home the meat. I've killed a truck load of deer and other game up to moose with CLs. I've also killed a bunch with Nosler Partitions. Two things. Most game doesn't go right down with the NPs, they usually run a ways. But since they almost always give full penetration, there's a good blood trail. Where the NPs serve me very well is in cartridges that are light for the game, e.g. .243Win on Mule Deer. In that case you need a premium bullet, IMHO. But for deer with .300Savage and up, not so much. Another example, .30-06 for Brown Bear. Marginal, so use the best bullet you can buy. Switch to the .375H&H, then bullet construction is not as important. Another place where NPs may be warrented is where you use a lighter bullet in a cartridge to flatten the trajectory. You can sacrifice bullet weight and not lose performance by going to the premium bullet.

Just my experiences, YMMV.

Opening day in NE Pennsylvania was real wet, a lot of stop and start rain with the temperature in the high 30's with fog rolling through the area. It was the kind of day that is really hard to sit. We hiked about a mile in state game lands so we did not have treestands. It's the kind of terrain that is all boulders, rocks and mountain laurel mixed in with mature hardwoods. At about 11:00 am I started to still hunt downhill towards where one of my buddies was supposed to be. Which was really more of a single man drive. (My still hunting technique consists of me bumbling around and things running away from me) Anyways, this dear came running from right to left and I saw that it was legal, as I was raising my 99 it put on the breaks and looked at me for a second then spun around was about to haul arse down hill when I shot. It was quartering away, downhill and entered high on the left side just behind the last rib along the backstrap. A lot of meat was tore up. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I don't want to use a bullet that is going to make me have to think twice about angle, optimum shot placement, etc... (as long as the shot is ethical) They all work great at deer standing still sideways. When it gets a little warmer I might just do some experimenting with wet newspaper and see what types of terminal performance different bullets deliver. It should be interesting.

I want stuff to work when everything is wrong.

Steelhead, You said what meant in one line.

I am curious to know why a backstrap shot with a CL could be any less tore up than a backstrap shot with a Partition? What makes a bullet that drops a deer like the Hammer of Thor any less effective than an expanding bullet more likely to penetrate all the way through, making a bore-diameter hole on exit? I don't get it. Elk, dangerous bears, other animals thicker than a deer, sure, but why on a deer? We want the bullet to get past hide and initial rib bones, then expend its energy inside on organs, not so?

From your description, the CL did not disintegrate on the hide, destroyed internal tissue - backstraps -, and even took out the spine, killing the deer instantly.

In the scenario above, pretty much any bullet would have had the same result. Destroyed meat. 99% of my deer hunting has been with core-lokt bullets. I have hunted and killed with: 30-30, 30-06, .300 sav. Only one year I hunted the 30-06 with NP's. That year is the ONLY year that I did not have a bang flop. First shot was a perfect broadside shot at 80 yds. The bullet entered the near shoulder and lodged into the far side shoulder. The buck went down with broken shoulders and 2 hit lungs, but still ran a bit more than 100 yards useing his neck as front legs. When I got to him he was still alive and has 50% of his strength but was jammed in heavy brush and could not move any more. I took a second shot, a neck shot, to end the story. Retrieved bullet pictured below! I guess you just never know what might happen!!

Mike...

I think he was less than happy with the damage to the meat and especially the lack of the bullet to stay together.

Some folks like the bullet to expand and disintegrate inside the deer dropping it in it's tracks. Others like it to pass through with a better guarantee of penetration through bone, and don't mind trailing a deer 100 yards or so. Religious argument, imho I'm not sure there is a right or wrong.

Room enough in this world for both camps.

Good morning Rory!!!

Mike...

Corelockts sometimes shed their cores, sometimes they don't. Sometimes when they shed their cores, they drop a deer in their tracks. I don't want to use a bullet where I know maybe it will shed its core, maybe not. What is most important to me is a hit that will be lethal. If it drops right there or runs 100 yards is of little matter. In Mike's example, even though it ran 100 yards, it was a dead deer. With it being hit in two lungs, it would have been dead without the follow-up shot.

I agree! My case was not actually for core-lokts, my case was that even NP's can react below expectation.

Mike...

When a bullet disintegrates inside a deer, sometimes (SOMETIMES) the performance appears superior to a premium bullet that doesn't disintegrate. I've shot many deer through the heart and most ran a ways. I don't consider that below performance expecations. Likewise, a deer shot through the lungs and running a ways is not unexpected. I know we are on the same page Mike

Mike...

I do, too. But, IME, I'm not sure there's significant difference between the killing power of a 150 NP and a 150 CL when it comes to deer, especially Whitetails. Two examples: 2005, north Idaho, I shot a 6x8 Whitetail. Only shot I had was through the pelvis at 30 yards (very thick woods). I shot him, which anchored him and then shot him again to kill him. 150NP out of .308Win. Bullet shed front core and did not exit. 2006, north Idaho, 4x4 Whitetail, moving straight away at 80 yards following a doe, soon to go out of sight in the draw he was in. Texas heart shot to base of tail, anchored him, followed up with second shot to kill him. 140CL out of .280Rem. Bullet broke backbone above tail and followed backbone forward for 14" and stopped in backstrap. Couldn't find the bullet when I skinned him. Had it commercially processed (don't usually do that, prefer to do it myself, but couldn't help it that year)and found the bullet when grilling backstraps six months later. Perfect mushroom.

Neither one of those shots were Saturday morning TV broadsides and both bullets performed equally well.

Now, don't anyone assume I'm just defending CLs here. I'm not. If you feel more comfortable using a premium bullet, by all means, do so. I've shot a bunch of NPs. All the hunting I did my first time living in AK were with 140 NPs in a 7x57. They performed very well, taking sheep, caribou and moose. I also shot a Brown Bear with a .350RemMag and 250CL factory loads. They made full penetration on the smallish bear twice.

ROMAC ,

I'm glad to hear that you did anchor the 8 point ��.

What you didn�t specify was the distance that the shot was taken from . By the looks of the remnants of the bullet , I�d have to say that it was close ( under 50 yards ) where the impact velocity was still very high . I would be very surprised to hear the shot was 100 � 150 yards .

That is the reason why I use premium constructed bullets ( Nosler Partitions ) . My shots have never been over 50 yards and impact velocity is still very close to muzzle velocity .

I have completely penetrated both shoulders of deer at the distance of 50 yards or less with a 100 grain Partition bullet from my 99 chambered for the .243 WCF . I have since then changed to the 85 grainers with perfect performance . I still have yet to recover the � little � 85 grain bullets .

The component that actually does the harvesting ( oh , sorry : KILLING ) is not the part of the equation to penny pinch on .

The shot was about 70 yards.

70 yards is a pretty close shot ( but I'm sure you know that ) .....


This 8 point was shot with a 85 grain Partition from a featherweight 99 in .243 WCF . Distance was 30 yards . The bullet entered right behind the armpit and hit major arteries and exited with no bone hit ..... he dropped 20 yards from being hit . I got to him in less than 5 minutes and he was dead .

Was I dissapointed because there was no " bang - flop " ? .... hardly .







15 minutes later , this 4 point came out and took the same 85 grain pill from the same 99 in .243 WCF , and standing right in the same spot the first buck was at( 30 yards ). The bullet entered right behind the armpit and blew the heart in half . Before exiting , it also took out the offside leg .

At the shot , this buck ran like I completely missed it .... but it left a blood trail for almost 100 yards that looked like someone threw buckets and buckets of blood everywhere ( I am not exaggerating one bit )... No problem finding him . It was lethal hit and left a huge hole on the exiting side . Was I disappointed because it wasn't a bang flop ? .... Hardly .

After reading all the posts this morning I got the impression that there is some controversy with corelokts out there. Don't get me wrong, I like em enough, I'm just wondering if at the ranges I see in the PA deer woods or at least in the situation I described, maybe 180's would have been a better choice or had a better outcome. I guess for me personally, I'd have like to found a hole clear through even if it meant tracking it for a few yards with a lot less meat upset.

Here's some pictures of the recovered Barnes 130gr TTSX's from 2 deer I killed this year with the 300 Savage. Longest shot was 40 yards.









See, that's how I like my recovered bullets to look.

No pics.

EXACTLY!

Because I recovered no bullets.

If you want complete penetration then the 180s will give that to you.

So will the right 130

lol!!!

That's just too funny Steelhead!!!!!!!!

Got me rollin' on the floor!!!

Mike...

I suggest you try a 150 grain Hornady Spire Point. This is my go to bullet in the .300 Savage. My experience is that it is plenty tough enough, but not too tough to pencil through Michigan whitetails. Excellent performance without the premium price. Save the premiums for the magnums. See attached picture. On a quartering toward shot, this Hornady broke the onside shoulder of a 150 lb whitetail, broke ribs on the far side and came to rest under the hide. Retained weight was 118 grains or 78%. The buck went 40 yards and collapsed. This has been typical of my experience with it. No second shot was needed. My experience with 180 RN is that they always pass through and they tend to die in 40 yards or less also.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/300jimmy/IMG_3867.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/300jimmy/IMG_3867.jpg

I had the same happen w/ a 280 handload, but loaded w/ a Sierra 140 game king. The buck was bedded and I rolled him no problem, but he wasn't positioned the way I thought. The shot actually hit the rear leg and went into the chest cavity, but it was just fragments that did the trick. I got lucky on that one, but I think alot has to do w/ shot placement and where and what the bullet hits. I have used the cl bullets in my 7x57 w/o a problem. Jeff

In the mid 80's, my brother and I shared 2 boxes of Remington 150 grain corelocks in 30-06, he was shooting a 700 ADL, I was shooting a 760 carbine. We were fortunate to shoot about 20 deer with those 2 boxes of ammo(same lot #). All the deer were taken on a private farm in Orange county NY that hadn't been hunted in years, and the deer were pretty relaxed, all were standing broadside shots except for one doe hit in front straight on.

The thing that bothered me the most was the erratic results of bullet performance within that same lot # of bullets. My brother shot a 9 pointer and had results identical to yours, all we found was a banana peel of copper under the far side of the skin, and he only broke a rib going in, did not hit any shoulder bone. I shot an 8 pointer, broke a shoulder, hit his spine, and recovered the bullet under the skin in his neck. It was a better mushroom than the one they used in the Remington advertisment, and weighted 150 grains after I recovered it. Others were and werent recovered, some went right through the animal, some we just didn't find within the animal. These deer were shot between 40 and 75 yards. If a bullet kills the animal, then I guess they did do their job, however bullet performance was extremely inconsistent. The animals either dropped on the spot, or went 20 to 30 yards before they ran out of blood and dropped.

The last deer I shot at with one of these bullets was a small doe, at about 50 yards. She took off with her front leg dangling. Missed on the followup shot. When I went to the spot that I hit her, there was enough hair in a 30 inch or so circle, that it looked like a doormat, with shoulderbone fragment and lead shrapnel in it. I followed that deer for over a mile, ran out of blood in the first 50 yards(wasn't much to begin with), and never saw her again, had to stop tracking when I came to property I couldn't access. Thats the only deer I ever lost, and the last time I used a Remington core lock.

I know it's only one failure, but for me it was the icing on the cake on a single lot of bullets with the most inconsistent performance I've seen for similar size animals taken under similar conditions. I haven't used a core lock since.

So to answer your question, no, I don't think you're over reacting, on the contrary, I think I waited to long to make the decision I made not to use them anymore.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Wink Man. Interesting.

I have switched to 150gr N/P and A/B for my .300 savage and have had complete pass-throughs on all deer i have shot.

I was using federal 150gr psp and had them blow apart on me. I hit a big 10 pointer in the neck (bad shot my fault) it dropped when I go close to it, it got up and ran in my dad's direction therefore I could not shoot a follow up shot. I tracked the deer for a few min and gave up because of the dark and was not sure where I had hit it.

Next morning I went out and found the deer 80 yards in a swamp still alive I was horrified by my shot and that it had suffered all night. When I skinned the deer out my first shot on the deer was in the neck, hit no bone, no pass through and the bullet was in shards with a small piece of core. This was in 2003 so the new blue box federal ammo was out then. I know that the A/b work flawlessly in small and out a little bigger, through bone at any angle. Some would say too tough a bullet for .300 savage velocities but in my experience Not at all!

I too have experienced bullet failure with the 150gr corelock. I did most of my deer hunting in WI and MN and am a firm believer in 180gr RN's in 30 cal for deer in the forest.

I moved to WA and picked up a nice little 99 in 308 and couldn't find a box of 180 RN anywhere. I bought some 150 Corelocks and sighted in with them and flew back to WI for a hunt.

1st deer a nice 8 point at 10 ft, a perfect broadside shot to the chest, I was so stunded that the deer didn't show a sign of being hit I didn't even think to shoot again. Upon checking the piont of impact I found a little hair and specks of blood in the snow. I followed the trail (no blood) for 100yds and started to see gloobs of blood but not like running from a wound. Another 40yds and I found the buck laying in the snow dead, I thought another hunter had shot it as it looked like large exit wound on the side of the deer my entrance should have been. Upon close exam my bullet had exploded on the surface and only shards of the jacket had penatrated between the ribs and tore up the lungs enough to drown him in his own blood the strange globs of blood were coughed up as there was no evidence of blood loss from the wound which was about the side of a desert plate.

2nd deer that day a medium doe at about 20yds head on shot at the base of the throat, no penetration to the chest cavity but left a crater about the size of a softball, with fist size chunk blown out of the windpipe.

I have since switched back to 180's and am back to great bullet performance. I gave the rifle to my nephew 5 yrs ago and he is doing just fine with the 180's

erich