I saw one recently but understand that the one I saw was probably a Mossberg. I was told that these are even rarer than the Montgomery Wards version made by Savage.

Does anyone know more about either version?

The Mossberg Premiers were based on their Model M pumps, they had a tang safety and the receiver was split about 1/3 down on the left side. The Savage Premiers were based on the model 25 and had a button safety in the rear of the trigger guard and the receiver halves were split through the top. I have probably seen about the same number of each - I would place the Mossberg slightly more common but I have not seen that many of either.

Mossbergs pumps were based on the Meriden Model 15; they acquired the design from Sear after WWI and made only a couple minor changes to it during their years of production. The patents for that design are in the names of Basil and Arthur J. Savage. For some reason Mossberg stopped making the Premiers for Wards and Savage took over, that had to be sometime before 1929 for the Savage Premiers to be based on the model 25; Mossberg stopped making pump 22's completely in 1931. The patents on the Mossberg design ran out about 1929 and if you compare parts with those of a Savage Model 29 you will see the basics of the design are identical.

Thanks GeneB, what would one expect to give for one in 93-95% condition?

The one I saw was definitely the Mossberg and in super condition. I guess I'm just trying to justify going back and getting it to add to the accumulation.

I don't know anything about them but if it gives you an itch, you should scratch it!!

Now is it closer to 93% or closer to 95%??? Sorry... just joking, I try not to get involved it pricing or even talking about prices, you'll just have to try and find a couple that have been on the internet to get an idea. One or two have been on GunBroker recently so they may still show up in a search of closed auctions. That one sounds like it has more condition than any I have seen. I don't consider them a real good design, even in good condition the receiver halves usually have some looseness and you will find many with the takedown screws showing damage from the use of pliers to try and get them tight. They are still an intersting gun and have a connection to Savage. I now have two having just recently up graded to one in about 40%!

I looked but you never know if the prices are actually close to the real world. Gunbroker shows just one complete gun selling for just under $400 plus shipping. I can get it about 33% cheaper than that without shipping.

It' hard to put a value on something like this, it's a house brand so there isn't a real collector base for them and they do not sell often enough to set a stable value. That one on GunBroker has been getting relisted for quite a while, but it has probably had the barrel cut and has an uneven finish that I think looks like an old cold blue. It's definatly over priced and not a good reference.
Premier Pump
I have just not seen enough of these sell to give you any sound advice on a value but the one you describe sounds like it is a nice example.

A couple things to look for on these, loosen the takedown screw so it's just snug and see how loose the reciever is - most of these even in real good condition have much more play than any other takedown design. Look very close at the trigger pin on the right side, this is a weak spot in the design and if the gun has been dropped they will often crack through at this spot. Here is a picture I took a while ago that shows the weak spot.

ROMAC, post some pictures for us.

Brian

I have to buy it first, but if I do I certainly will!

Gene, thanks for the tip on the weak spot, I'll keep an eye out for it.

Well, here it is. No cracks, major gouges or pitting. IMO definitely the Mossberg version of the Premier 22 pump, but it does share some Savage patents so it is not totally off topic.

Nice looking rifle and well cared for too. Ought to be a fun plinker.

ROMAC; Is the breech block serial numbered to the gun? It should have the the last three digits stamped on the bottom where it can be seen with the gun taken down but without having to remove it from the reciever. Yours has the late third style block and I have not seen one in a Premier before; I had thought the change may have been made after they stopped making Premiers. There are some internal differences in the blocks so a picture would be apperciated.

Gene, I'll have to take a look at the breach block when I get the chance.

I'll let you know what turns up.

I found this on the net while looking for additional information. The book referenced might contain some good stuff.

The "Premier" brand was manufactured by O.F. Mossberg & Sons starting around 1927 - 1928 for Montgomery Wards. It is a hammerless, take-down, octagonal barrel, pump action .22 caliber rifle and was sold by O.F. Mossberg as the Model "M". Mossberg also manufactured 2 round barreled versions the model "K" and the shorter model "S". Victor & Cheryl Havlin discuss and picture this model in their book "Mossberg: More Gun For The Money"

I would stick with the standard, subsonics or CB's if your going to shoot it. The CCI Subsonic bullet runs a little over sized and is a good chose for older looser barrels.

Nice conditon!

Gene, good info.

They couldn' have made them much later than 1928 because the Savage Premiers are based on the Model 25 that was replaced by the 29 sometime in 1929. From the add it sounds like Wards just bought "enormmous quantitys for 8,000,000 customers" to get a good price so it's possible it was just one large order. This is from the Fall 1927-1928 catalogue-

Here's a link to a higher resolution version that you will actually be able to read- Ward's 1927-1928

I'll take one of those Savage Sporters in .25 cal. for $20.95, please. On second thought, please throw in a .32 cal., too, and a couple of Remington 25Rs! I'll pay an even $100 for all four!

Where's my time machine when I NEED it?????

Yes Gene, the breech block is numbered to the gun. Has the last three digits as you suggested. All the internal parts look like they were machined yesterday!

Hi, I am new to this group. I am trying to repair a Premier 22 that belonged to my great-grandfather. I bought another Premier 22 and want to use parts from it to repair my great-grandfather's pump 22. I have discovered that there are minor differences between the two rifles such as different dimensions for the carrier stop screw. I want to replace the octagon barrel on my grandfather's rifle. A gunsmith ruined the original barrel on my grandfather's rifle. How do I remove the octagon barrel from the barrel receiver? I would appreciate any advice you could give me.

GeneB is probably the guy to answer your questions. Send him a PM to get his attention. He has been very helpful to a lot of people regarding the 22's and their issues.

Tullos43,

Obviously not GeneB but you will need to determine if you have a Mossberg made Premier or a Savage made Premier. Read this thread from the top, both are described in the second post.

Romac, Thanks.

I am still learning how to reply so please excuse the multiple responses. My two guns are both Mossbergs, but they are slightly different. Visually they look exactly the same but several of the screws have different sizes and threads.

The barrels just screw off as far as I know - I never took one off myself. I just looked at a receiver half I have and the threads are standard direction and there is nothing to pin the barrel on.

Be carefull taking the magazine tube off, it is pinned to the front mount ring to hold it in --- support the ring when trying to remove the pin because the mag tube ring 'dove tails' in the barrel are circular meaning the rings do not slide out but have to be turned 90� for removal - trying to slide them out side ways will damage them and the barrel.

Some more info in my reply to your PM - you should see a blinking flag at the top of your screen next to "My Stuff".

Gene

Hello, I am new to this group. I am trying to repair a Premier pump 22 that my father had. No model on it just Premier on top of barrel and 22 long and short rifle on the side.It has an octagon barrel on it.I believe all I need is the bolt block.Anyone have any spare parts for sale or or know where I could buy parts?

First you have to look through the pictures and determine if it's Mossberg or Savage made. I haved not seen a bolt for either listed for quite a while. I just sold a bolt for the Mossberg version but I had to piece it together with parts from three incomplete one - I found out some of the parts on these are not 100% interchangable & require a lot of fitting. The person I sold it to had purchased a stripped bolt body (said he paid $25) but could not find any of the other parts. I have stripped bolt bodies but I don't think you will ever find all the other parts...that will fit, there seems to have been a few changes made to these over the years.

If you see one make sure the locking lugs aren't deformmed & then stick to standard velocity ammunition.

If anyone has some good pics of the parts, I can look to see if I have any of the premier parts. Probelm is they would have gotten pitched in with the savage stuff more thank likely.