Anyone ever load the Hornady 220gr RN in the 300 Savage ?


Mike

Nope, but I could load some up. Guessing 2200fps should/could happen.

What powder/charge weight ?

Mike

Don't know, maybe 4895 around 36 grains.

I guess I could try it , if it kersplodes the rifle , well it ain't like I can't spare one

Mike

That's a Barnes load for solids, so a CC should handle it fine I would think.

I gotta ask... What kind of critter are you planning on shooting?

Lee

Whompuscat



Mike

... Well, good hunting Mike!

Lee

The heaviest jacketed bullet my reloading books show for the .300 Savage is 180 grains. The "factory duplication" load for the 180 grain bullet is 39.4 grains of IMR4320 yielding 2336 fps. The "accuracy load" for the 180 grain bullet is 38 grains of IMR4895 yielding 2315 fps.

The 220 grain bullet is 22% heavier than the 180 grain bullet. Therefore, I'd reduce the powder loads by 26% as a "starting load" and try it IF I'd decided to ever try such a thing... which I would NOT do and I strongly advise you NOT to do it either!

But if you're dead set on trying it, here's the "numbers"... 26% of 39.4 grains (IMR4320) is 10.244 grains. Therefore, the starting load for IMR4320 would be 29.1 grains. 26% of 38 grains (IMR4895) is 9.88 grains, therefore the starting load for IMR4895 would be 28.1 grains.

HOWEVER, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND EITHER OF THESE LOADS SINCE THEY TAKE YOU INTO THAT AREA KNOWN AS "UNPREDICTABLE"... I.E., we really don't know WHAT would happen! So why even TRY it?!?!?

One other important caveat... even the 180 grain bullet in the smallish .300 savage case takes up more powder room than is conducive for efficient bullet performance... I.E., the longer bullet limits the amount of powder the cartridge case will hold and, thus, limits the accompaning muzzle velocity of the bullet which, in turn, severely limits the foot/pounds of bullet energy imparted to the game animal being hunted. The 220 grain, .30 caliber bullet limits the cartridge case's powder capacity even MORE because the bullet is even LONGER thus taking away even MORE room inside the cartridge case for the powder.

Remember... if you double the bullet weight, you double the ft/lbs of bullet energy. If you double the velocity, you quadruple (!!!) the ft/lbs of bullet energy and thus, you quadruple the "killing power" of the bullet. Therefore, we can't disregard or ignore the bullet's VELOCITY.

In my opinion, the best bullet-weight "efficiency range" for the .300 Savage cartridge case is either the 150 grain bullet or the 165 grain bullet. Anything you can't kill with one of those two bullets indicates (to me, at least) that you need to go to a larger capacity cartridge like the .30/06 or even one of the magnum .30 caliber cartridges. If the "fast 30's" (.300 Win. magnum, .308 Norma magnum, .300 Weatherby magnum, .30/378 Weatherby magnum, etc.) aren't enough cartridge, you should consider even a larger caliber bullet like the .35 Whelen or possibly the .338 Winchswter Magnum or one of the .338 or .358 Magnums using their 225 or 250 grain bullets.

I.E., you now have that "perfect excuse" to buy a NEW rifle!!! How 'bout a Model 99 in .358 Winchester?!?!?


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Sweet Jesus, or you can just work with a published load because they do exist.

I swear folks are getting paid by the word to post.

There may be a good reason to load 220 gr in a 300 Savage, but I can't think of it!

However I once bought a bunch of 220 gr cast bullets at a garage sale and I cut the ends of them off to bring the wieght down to 180 gr and loaded them in my 300 Savage and other 308 bore guns. Killed a lot of rabbits cheaply with those and it was fun.

I have used 200 grainers and they work great for deer.dead deer less meat damage. I am now using 180 gr silvertips.

Round Tips
130 grains x .025 RT..........$35.50
130 grains x .035 RT..........$36.00 c3
150 grains x .025 RT..........$36.00
165 grains x .030 RT..........$37.00
165 grains x .035 RT..........$37.50
180 grains x .030 RT..........$37.50
180 grains x .035 RT..........$38.00
200 grains x .025 RT..........$37.50
200 grains x .030 RT..........$38.00
200 grains x .035 RT..........$39.00
220 grains x .035 RT..........$41.00
250 grains x .035 RT..........$44.50

These are from Hawk bullets. I was going to try the 250 grain, but they stuck out the end of the barrel.

I don't see why not. I never tried the Hornady 220gr. in the .300 but I have fired a bunch of 220 gr. Lyman #311284 cast bullets, a round nose design, cast hard out of linotype. No big deal other than the bullets sticking way down into the case. I didn't try to hot rod it but I was getting velocities in the neighborhood of 18-1900 fps without straining things. I think the limiting factor in attempting 2200 fps with a 220 is case capacity because of the large volume taken up by the long bullet intruding. Maybe a slower powder better adaptable to a compressed charge?

Ron T , I got a 99 in 358 Win , it won't shoot Hornady .308 220gr RN boolits worth a damn.


Mike

Mike, 'ol buddy... that's probably because .308 diameter bullets don't shoot very accurately through .358 diameter barrels. They're just a "tad" too small in diameter. Nuthin's ever easy, is it?

Maby a 300 gr 308 would work they are bigger.

So, Mike, do you have a bunch of 220 Hornadys laying around that you just want to experiment with/use up? Or are you overrun with Whompuscats down there? It's been my understanding that those bullets were designed to perform at .30/06 and .30/40 Krag velocities in which case they should do fine in the .300. You've given me an idea to play with in my next handloading session as I think I have a few of those bullets stashed somewhere.

Yeah , I got a sack full of the 220s. I read somewhere that the low end of their useful velocity range is about 1400 fps , if that is so then they should make for a short range boolit in the 300 Savage.
Lots of whompuscats around & about.


Mike

275 views & nobody has a recipe for the 220gr RN in the 300 Savage ?

Got myself wondering about loading the 220gr in the 303 Savage too.......


Mike

I would think unless you were moose or bear hunting it wouldn't be practical, must be the ammo manufacturers and savage didn't think it was needed either. probably the added recoil would see how well the buttstocks around the tang would hold up, just saying. Don

Im sure it could be done, but the bullets would have to
be seated deep. 180s are probably all you need for this
caliber.

Barnes #3

220gr Barnes solid

H4895 start 32gr Max 36gr 2218fps

RL15 same charges 2157fps

IMR4064 31 to 35gr 2158


________________________________________

300 Savage 250gr Barnes Original

H4895 28.5 to 32.5 2009fps

RL15 29 to 33 1948fps

IMR4064 29 to 33 2017fps

Ron T , Loggah , Jericho , you guys are looking at this all wrong , this is not about need , this is not about logic , THIS IS ALL ABOUT LOONEYISM


Mike

Without doing the math, I would guess that a 220 at those velocities would have about the same recoil as a 180 going 3-400fps faster.

A "need" to see if it can be done usually defies logic. "Here, hold my beer a second..."

Given there is published loading data in the Barnes manual, I see no problem or danger in giving it a try. I also have that Barnes manual. The 250 grain load in a .300 Savage seems a bit out there - the bullet is nearly as long as the case. It seems the base of the bullet would nearly be sitting on top of the primer and the majority of the powder would be laying along side the bullet vs. beneath it.

You guys think I was just pulling this number out of my arse? You Savage boys are sloooooooooooooooow to come around to anything different.

Interestng thread, but I agree with those that recommend a .358 Win. chambered 99, if you want to throw lead 200+ grains out of your 99. There's just too much projectile sticking too far into the case to enable it to function in the rotor. Not saying it can't be done, just seems out of whack, like when people put 26" rims with low profile tires on their H2 Humvees. Seems silly.
I think some of my old Hornady, Speer and/or Nosler books from the 1960's / 1970's have "recipes" for 200+ gr bullets in the .300 Sav., but it just doesn't seem "right" to my brain. Besides, there's not much a .300 Sav. with 180gr. Nosler partitions won't kill if you keep your shots under 200 yards.
I think I have a box or two of 180 grain factory "bronze tip" loads (Remington if memory serves) that are supposed to be pretty nasty on dangerous game.

-TomT

If its in the case it has NO effect on the rotor!

Of course it doesn't effect the rotor function if it's stuffed in the case, but you still have to stuff that big projectile down into the case to stick to the 2.6" OAL (if memory serves) so the rotor can turn and the ammo doesn't bind. -TomT

And we had two new words added to the English language with this thread - "kersplodes" and "whompuscat"

I've got an 8 twist Rock 308 and been thinking very much about this same thing.....

Ok, I'll bite. What is an "8 twist Rock 308"? Speak English! Or is it some New Wave Indy Rock band?

Yep, we Savage 99 afficianados are slow to change. And your point is? Some of us fool with pretty old cars too, and are married to/dating some classy older women. To each his own.

Rock Creek (http://www.rockcreekbarrels.com/) barrel, with a 1-8" ROT (that is rate of twist)

Point is that it's funny.

Yes, I guess it is kind of funny. It's just that as I get older (and I'm only 57) I wonder more and more about whether people embrace new technology because it really is an improvement over the old, or simply because we can. I gravitate toward the practical side of things. Always have. But at the same time, I'm easily bored. Using the same load over and over in one gun has it's advantages (and like I said I have a pet load for each of my rifles that is the "go to" one for serious use) chief of which is becoming intimate with the ballistics of said load. But it's boring and the inquisitive side of me won't let me not find out if, for example, a 220 gr. bullet has merits in the .300 Savage. (And y'all were wondering if the thread was going to get back on track!) Practically speaking- probably not. From an inquisitive point of view- let's find out.

Some is an improvement, some isn't. Some is easy to tell on the surface if it is/isn't, some not so much.

I have an old Speer manual that gives recipes for 200 gr. at about 2200 fps, but no 220s.

I don't think a 220 will shoot in a .308 Win or .300 Sav bbl, because they have 1:12 twists. The 220 works in .30-06 and .30-40 rifles due to the 1:10 twist.

220 grains in a .35 Remington could work, and would have about as much energy.

My point was I'm a tinkerer too. I know what works for me and now and again I'm willing to try something different just for the sake of doing it......i.e. a fast twist for a 300 savage might be a way to some subsonic tinkering with a 220. Trail Boss has leveled the field somewhat in that area however and the 300 savage's advantage over the 308 might not be as great.

My Barnes loading manual lists four loads for the Barnes 250 grain original bullet in the .300 Savage. Three of the four loads all exceed 2000 fps. Not bad at all - especially considering how fast 2000 fps was considered around the time the .303 Savage was introduced. I assume the 250 grain original bullet should open up at 2000 fps so this might be a real interesting hunting option. The ability of the barrel twist to stabilize the bullet and hence, achieve acceptable hunting accuracy would need to be established but for a short range heavy woods situation....

I like it the other way and load some 125 grain loads for the kids to shoot.

I got decent accuracy with those 220gr. lead bullets at 1900fps. I was looking for mild practice ammo solutions in the .300, and I had a bunch of those bullets gathering dust from back in my Krag days. Also, because I was single loading them I was able to increase the OAL slightly beyond what would work in a 99 magazine. I didn't save the targets or make a note in my log, but I recall accuracy of around an inch or a bit more at 50 yds. with the M1920/iron sights. I settled on a 311466 Loverin-style 150gr. over 15gr. SR-4759 for about 1600fps.

I am going to try 220 Gr in my 30-30. it is a 219 single shot I beleive it would be a good close-up bone crusher.. what do you all think about it?

What's the big deal? If a guy wants to shoot heavy bullets using published data why such a ruckus.

I am more and more convinced heavy bullets at slower speeds are a sensible option. Unless your a Canadian Army Sniper the effective range is limited adding greatly to the sport of hunting and the safety of sending rainbow trajectory bullets downrange. This year some idiot shot a woman in her kitchen in Alberta! Whats wrong with a bullet that is in the dirt by 200-250 yards rather than 400-500 in farming country?

It is interesting that levergunners are shooting heavier and heavier big bore bullets for good reason.

heaver the bullet more recoil pad i need for my old shoulder

I tried again yesterday to fire another sample of 220 gr. bullets (cast) out of the .300. Upped velocity a bit, and accuracy went to hell. The 190's (cast) did well. That short neck is definitely the bug-a-bear in trying to make them work. Half of the bullet sticks down in the case, exposing the grease to the powder. It's obvious to me that Savage made that bugger so short so as to work in existing 99 actions. Another 1/4" of neck, and the chance to seat the bullets out "normally" would be nice. Lyman made a 180 gr. mould specifically for the .300 but I never stumbled onto one.

I shoot 220's (again, cast) quite often in .30/30's (and other .30's) and get very tasty accuracy with a multiple of loads. Velocity is pretty low, comparatively speaking, at about 1700fps pushing them rather hard. A dead soft 220 cast bullet at that velocity would make a pretty stout deer killer, but I have my doubts as to how much a jacketed 220 at those speeds would expand, especially when it got out a ways.

Big bullets moving slow. Hard to beat. Unless you are shooting long distances and need flat trajectory, I see nothing but hype. In my part of the country an average shot on deer is around 50 yards (and many are killed at less than 50 yards). I really have to laugh at the .300 Ultramag crowd up here.