1st, intro.
Hi I'm Brian. Just found the site today and never dreamed there's such excitement over these old savages.

2nd,
I'm such a tease, no pics right now and the gun is at home so I don't even have serial #'s, but I WILL bring it with me tomorrow and take some pics and list the patents and serial #'s

3rd,
So I got to talking guns with a buddy the other day and started Googling for info on my Savage (what I thought was) Model 1893, 30-30.

I think I'm wrong about the model but we'll find out tomorrow.

Any way what I know is I have one of my grandfather's (or great grandfather's, I forget) rifles.

It's a savage lever action 30-30 looks like a 1899. I do remember it having the 1893 patent date stamped on it, has the remaining shots indicator . Generally in decent shape, action works fine, some pitting in the bore, shoots ok (IIRC low and the the right, I need to sight it in.)

Here's the thing that's baffling me, and I know it can't be answered till the pics and #'s are here, it has a half octagon-half round barrel .

Oh great and wise Savage Arms aficionado's can you shed any light on this gun for me. I know you want the #'s and pics but we have to wait till tomorrow, sorry.

Thanks,
Brian

You can rule out the 1893. Not likely to be a 1895 in that caliber so that leaves an 1899 C if a standard production rifle. 26 inch bbl was std, rifle butt stock w/o a pistol grip, uncheckered.

Yep, the 30-30 was introduced in 1900, and a half octagon barrel makes it an 1899C.

Here's a similar early one I have from 1902.

Calhoun that left eject 1899 MUST be a rare one... only one I have ever seen!!!

It's the left handed camera he's using.

What??? A left eject 1899 in 30-30??? That would be perfect!Where can I get one?

Yep, one of a kind.. and it always gets a comment when I post it.


Fixed it for all of you nitpickers.

Welcome, Brian. Congrats on 1) having a family heirloom rifle, 2)having the ultra cool 1899C, 3) in .30-30.
Very cool that it has been handed down. Get us some pictures!

Thanks a lot everyone.

I'll do the pics in the morning.

If you're right about it being a 1899C how many were made and what kind of value does it have, and NO it is NOT for sale no matter what the answers are, I'm just curious.

I sold off a few heirloom guns many years ago and, short of my kids starving, I will not do it again.

When ever I talk guns with my dad I get all excited, he's got a decent collection, some I've grown up with, and many more that he says I've never seen. He's cagey like that and teases me all the time with statements like, "Why do want to know what I've got, you'll get them all one day." I usually reply,"Why can't I enjoy them now with you, I guess I'm greedy I want to play with your guns AND have you around, too."

Some of the ones I remember are a Winchester '94 in 25-20, a 22 Hornet semi auto (was my favorite squirrel gun as a kid but it's been so long I don't even remember what brand or model) and some kind of huge and very heavy cap and ball muzzle loader, that he says unfortunately disappeared from the family farm after my grandfather died.

Anyway see you'ns tomorrow.

Thanks,
Brian

Of the early standard models, the saddle ring carbine and the 1899C are probably the most uncommon. It does bring a premium because everybody loves a half-octagon barrel, and the ones in 30-30 are popular.

Value will depend totally on condition, and alterations and if it has any special order features. Somewhere between $400 and $1200 probably. Just my opinion..

Some of the ones I remember are a Winchester '94 in 25-20, a 22 Hornet semi auto (was my favorite squirrel gun as a kid but it's been so long I don't even remember what brand or model

The Winchester may be a '92 if it is in 25-20. Is it possible the semi-auto could be a 22 magnum in stead of a 22 Hornet? Just asking.

You may very well be right about the Winchester, the .22 is definitely a Hornet. I'll call my dad later and ask what model it is. The more I try to recall it the more I think I'm wrong about it being a semi auto, now I'm thinking it's a bolt action.

They say when you get older your memory is the... wait what was I saying?

I dug out the Savage, here's the barrel stamping:

Savage Arms Co. Utica, N.Y. U.S.A.
Pat Feb. 7 '93. July 25 '93. Oct. 3 '99. Cal..30

The second 9 in the Oct. 3 '99. is obscured like maybe a defect. I'll bet that's why I was thinking it's a 1893.

30-30 stamped on the receiver end of the barrel.

The serial # is 23.1XX. Stamped across receiver bottom in front of trigger guard.

It's in better condition than I remembered and, as far as I can tell, all original with no mods and not drilled for scope mount.

I'll post the pics in the am.

Thanks,
Brian

Made in 1901, nice early rifle.

Here you go.

Some more.
Hang on I'll keep them coming.

More...

probably nicer than average 1899C... it does look like it may have seen a little cold blue touch up over the years but hard saying for sure from the pics (and back in the day this would have been thought of as really taking good care of the gun despite what collectors might think today). Also, the head of the stock does look pretty oil soaked... don't saturate the mechanism or barrel of these guns in gun oil thinking you are preventing rust b/c that oil soaks into the wood and makes them both dark and soft. Lots of ppl have started storing their guns with the barrels down b/c of this...

Anyways, great rifle in a desirable model.

Ok, I'm done for now.

So what do you think?

Tell me about my rifle.

I have a few questions.

1)Is this a Schnabel forearm?

2)What finish would the stock have had originally?
(It looks to me like there's some varnish or shellac on it)

3)Any special care tips?

4)Would you shoot or hunt it?
(I know that's a personal preference, I already know my answer: I would bang the crap out of a supermodel, antique and classic cars, bikes, trucks, planes, etc. were made for driving. So along those lines I'll probably shoot it, but not hunt it.)

5) If you were buying (as I said I'm not selling) what would you pay?

1) Yes, schnabel means "beak" in German. You can see the resemblance of the schnabel forearm to a beak.

2) Not sure exactly what was used. When new they did have a shine to them, yours looks pretty good actually for a gun that was used.

3) www.oldwestsnakeoil.com is good stuff to hit your stock with once or twice a year. Not too often, but it will help bring a dried out stock back to life.

4) I'd definitely shoot it, it's not a safe queen. The biggest risk to that is getting a crack behind the tang if it doesn't already have one. If the thought of that bothers you, then don't shoot it.

Nice rifle, especially given that it has family history. Enjoy it!

I also want to add, thanks for all the comments.

For some reason when my dad gave it to me he implied (or I inferred) that it's not a very good gun.

It's nice to know that I'm wrong, but in a good way. Usually when I get values of anything mixed up it's in the other direction and my silk purse is usually a sows ear. An old wore out crappy sows ear at that.

It makes me wonder, though, if pops thinks this wasn't one of his better guns then what's he got stashed away.

Now that I'm learning more about it I may have to order the factory records for it. Does anyone mind posting the contact info for me?

I'd be stoked to find out that my great grandpa bought it new, and being from upstate NY I'd guess (or hope) there's a fair chance he did.

the info to order the factory letter is in the top post called "Misc Good Info" Scroll down and you will find it.

So I called my dad this afternoon and talked rifles with him for a while.

He said, "My grandfather did buy it new and I may have the receipt still, and am pretty sure I've got the catalog he ordered it from."

Nice. So my great grandfather did buy it new.
(And built 1/2 of the house I grew up in, I owe him a big thank you. Too bad I never met him.)

He went on to add, "I think he paid 19 dollars for that rifle. It was 2 dollars extra for the half & half barrel."

I asked about him saying it wasn't that great of a rifle and he says, "Oh no, it's a nice gun. It just doesn't shoot quite as nicely as it did when I was a boy.[he was born in '37] That's the one with the barrel all pitted isn't it?"

It is. I think I'll build myself a steady rest and a tripod and see how it will do. I've only put 5 rounds through it the day he gave it to me a few years ago.

Time to go shooting soon.

I had him check the .22 Hornet. It's a Savage Model 23D, s.n. 211.xxx. Bolt action.

Same deal on that rifle, my great grandfather bought it new as well, then gave it to my granddad, who gave it to my dad. who won't let me have it. [I didn't ask]

I had a moment of panic when he said he couldn't find it in his closet.

"Oh yeah, it's the last rifle I shot the other day. I left it by the bedroom window."

"Coyotes?", I said.

"Yeah."

"You get him?"

"Nah, I just scared him off."

"On purpose?"

"Yeah." [his tone reminded me of a petulant teenager, think "Well du-uh!"]

Later he asks, "Why you asking about guns all the sudden? You're not gonna sell it are you? I'll kick your ass if you do"

I told him, "Don't worry I'll let your grand kids fight over it one day." [Girl's 4, boy's 6 mo's, so I have a few years to shoot it myself]

If he still has a 1900, 1901, 1902 catalog... its very likely the catalog is actually worth more than the gun!!!! Seriously!

I would scrub that barrel out as well as you can and give it a shot, it probably is not going to shoot MOA but it might still have life in it.

The 23D is a desirable gun as well. I personally don't chase them around but mostly b/c I am a lefty but I know the guys say the D can be a harder model to find. Sounds like GGndpa has good taste.

Congrats

Wow. I've not paid much attention to guns and stuff for a while.

Here's one catalog he gave me with the rifle.

Remington 1902. It's mint.

BTW the Winchester 25-20 is a Model 92.

So is old ammo worth saving too, or fire away?

I've got a couple of old boxes of Western Super X Silvertip 30-30 win. 170g

Damn, that Remington catalogue looks like came from the printer yesterday.

Just a quick update, I just put the letter in the mail to Mr. Callahan to get this rifle "lettered" by him. I can't wait to see what he says.

I got my letter the other day. Here it is.

So I still don't know if my great grandfather bought it new or not.

I have learned that Ralph (my ggf, pictured) was a carpenter for the D&H railroad before he bought our farm, from his sister in law, in 1920. And that he, at least once, traveled out west, when this picture was taken in Los Angeles. He was born in 1880 so this trip must have occurred somewhere around the turn of the century.

I can't help but wonder if there's a chance he picked up this 1899C on that trip, but it seems like it will be hard to determine.

I've been trying to find out what I can about Simmon's Hardware in St. Louis and have learned that they were a large retailer back in the day, but so far I can find no links that may lead to their old sales records.

Anyhow, here's another letter on another fine old rifle to add to the (impressive) knowledge base you all have here.

I've got guns listed to Simmons as well and I live in Canada. I believe Simmons was an outlet or something and that the guns were shipped there and from there out to retailers. Just to many guns are listed to them and i doubt that many people drove or took a horse all across North America to buy a Savage from them.

Simmons Hardware: "The company is wholesale and retail dealer in hardware, cutlery, sporting goods, harness, etc. and also manufacturers of harness, saddlery, athletic goods, pocket cutlery, etc."

Looks to have been a very large company, saw mention of offices in New York, Philadelphia, Minneapolis. Might have received all goods at their main warehouse in St. Louis and then sent them off to side offices elsewhere.

Thanks for the info on the letter!

I don't know Joe. St. Louis was a BIG city and a thriving metropolis at the turn of the century. They hosted the World's Fair in 1904. It was still the gateway to the west. Simon's may have been filling orders for shops further west but I would not be surprised if they were selling them in St. Louis. (maybe to travelers headed west)

Simon's does not show up as often as a few others from what I can recall... E.K. Tyrons (sp??) and what was that shop out west that stamped their name on the bottom of every barrel. I have seen a few pages of ledger and they seem to show up a lot.

Brian, thank for posting the letter.

I noticed that the elevator in the rear sight of your rifle is in backwards. You might want to correct that so it doesn't come out and get lost.

You noticed that, too. I saw it in the pictures and fixed it after I took them, thanks.

While we're at it here's a little eye candy. I was down at dad's place all week helping him after his hip replacement surgery and asked if I could play with his guns.


Pic 1, top to bottom:

Savage 23D, .22 Hornet (This has been my favorite rifle since I was old enough to shoot, and the pic doesn't do it justice it's in terrific shape)

Henry Repeating Arms H001v "Varmint Express", .17HMR (His newest acquisition, nice little rifle)

Winchester 74, .22LR (My favorite squirrel rifle while growing up on the farm.)


Pic 2, top to bottom

Winchester '92 SRC, .25-20 WCF (Beautiful piece of history, unfortunately the bore is wore slap out.)

Savage 775A, 12G. (Evidently my family likes Savages)

Remington Model 24, .22S (with Lyman tang site )