What's an accurate mild recoil load for the 300 savage? I have no experience with the 300sav.

Something that will extend the brass life for reloading and not kill my shoulder at the target range.

I shoot both jacketed and cast.

If I were to use cast bullets, what's a good choice given the short neck.

Is it worth trying to hunt down a Lyman 311414 or is the RCBS 308-165-SIL mold the way to go. I don't have such a mold, I do have the following;
RCBS 30-180-SP
Saeco 316-F4J (150 grn flat nose)
Lyman 311291
Lyman 311041
Any luck with the ones above.

I use a starting load of IMR4895 for range practice, though you'll probably want to try several powders to see what your rifle likes. Very little brass wear with starting loads, and it shoots just fine - though a few inches lower than a hunting load. Load her up just like any other centerfire round, just be aware that long bullets like 180gr or above tend to eat up a lot of powder space in order to be kept short enough to fit in the magazine. They still work fine, it just seems weird when loading them. I tend to use Nosler BT's 2nds for practice, I hunt with Partitions and the BT's are pretty good about keeping very close to the same POI.

I don't use cast bullets, doesn't seem right in a 250 or 300 Savage.

The 300 isn't loaded to particularly high pressures to start with (45 to 47 Kcup). If you back off about 5% or roughly 2 grains, you have a pretty soft load and very mild recoil. I personally would start with IMR3031 if I was going light in the .300 Savage along with a 150 grain bullet of choice. I tend toward the 150 grain PowerPoint or Hornady Spire.

I use 30gr of Re-15 with the Lyman 311291 with excellent results. I also use this same load in my 30-30s and 303s.

I have used 311291, 311041, 311466, NEI 180 RNGC, SAECO custom 190FNGC, and, believe it or not, 311284 220gr. RNGC in the .300. Powder charges that I was successful with are all over the map, but two that gave consistently good results in all of them are 10 gr. Unique and 14gr. SR-4759. Note however that I didn't spend much time working up full throttle hunting loads, being satisfied with mid-range loads for fun shooting. Also, due to the short neck, as by now I'm sure you're aware, cast bullet use is problematic, but not overly so. Since my test vehicle was/is a M1920 bolt gun I loaded the cast bullets at maximum length to engage the rifling and minimize case intrusion without heeding "normal" OAL and eschewing magazine feeding. Most of the tested bullets ended up seated so far out that they wouldn't feed from the magazine. For my style of shooting, that didn't bother me in the least but I suppose it would some people.

If I were to work up a hunting load with cast bullets for the .300 I would go with a 190-200 grain flat nosed number and use powders from one end of the spectrum or the other that will allow .30/30+ velocities without high pressure. That's to say something like 3031 or 4350. I don't know why, but I never got great results with the medium burners at +2000fps in any of the medium capacity .30 cartridges with lead bullets, but relatively fast or relatively slow ones do well. Cast them soft, in the neighborhood of 11-13bhn (wheelweights + a smidge of tin), for good expansion at velocities down into the teens. Cast bullet shooting is all about compromise. The compromise here is soft alloy = low velocity (2100 fps is about max) hence the heavy-for-caliber bullet to get energy levels back up to where it becomes a reliable killer again. A 200 grain cast bullet at 2000fps is a far better killer than a 150 grainer at 2000 fps. A 190-200 grain cast bullet at 2000fps MV is smack dab in the realm of the .303 Savage and we all know that one is no slouch in the deer woods. Rest assured, a lead bullet of 11bhn at that velocity will expand like the classic mushroom shape.

Why use cast bullets? A)The challenge of finding the right combo of alloy/powder/seating depth/bullet design for success. B)Cost savings. Low velocity plinker/fun cartridges cost next to nothing to load, compared to case-fulls of powder + store bought jacketed bullets. That translates into spending the day at the range and firing a couple hundred shots and not depleting the wallet or bruising the shoulder. And C) Perhaps the most important reason of all: since we're talking about shooting rifles that are getting increasingly more valuable and which aren't made anymore, a steady diet of cast lead bullets will do virtually zero harm to one's bore. You'll never wear out the rifling or burn out a throat shooting cast bullet target ammo.

That's why, in 1000 words or less , shooting cast bullets in the .300 seems right. (The same argument can be made for the .250, but due to the bullet weight/velocity restrictions I would be loath to use cast bullets in it for deer hunting.)

gnoahhh is leading you right.
I have never killed a deer using a jacketed bullet in my .300 but, I can assure you that the Lyman 31141 pushed to 2083 fps with 44 grains of H-4831 gets the job done. The 311359 with 7 grains of Unique makes a superb plinking load in my G and I have killed small game with same. No recoil to speak of and the sound is about like a .22 WMR. Cases lasts forever with these loads as I am still using some Rem-UMC cases with my plinking load.

I have only used RL-15 in my 300 Savages, but I would think 40-45 gns. of RL-22 or 7828 would be a real soft shootin' load as well as safely filling the case.

Gunner

I think filling the case is somewhat overrated.

Using H4198 in a 308 (Rem. 700 VTR) with 155 grain bullets I've developed a very mild shooting "30-30" that prints 1/2 to 5/8 MOA five shot groups. And I mean all the time, not just it did it once. This is with thrown charges, and they don't fill the case. But there is not enough room for a double charge either.

I'm pretty certain a similar mild and accurate load could be developed for the 300 using 4198.

Not so sure on the little Savage levers, but I prefer not alot of airspace in my cases, and that dang sure means the big Nitro Express and BP cartridge rifles, they get nothing short of mild to heavy powder compression from me.

Gunner

That's a bit different ball game. For a rough description of the situation, think of how much more powerful the same primer is relative to the space and charge in a 300 Sav. than it is to a 500 Nitro.

Yes, but a primer firing across a small charge of powder and striking the base of a bullet then bouncing back to complete ignition is what spooks me, not saying it cant be safely done, but I have no exp. at it and I like at least a 95% case cap. in small to med. centerfire rifle cases.

Gunner

So I'm guessing the Hodgdon H4895 youth loads probably aren't something you're interested in either.

Y heck no Calhoun, I'm 25 years past anything that resembles youth

Gunner

Ute? What's a ute?

I think that with small to medium size cases where guys get in trouble is when using slow powders for reduced charges. I've fired thousands of shots in stuff up to .30/06 using micro charges of fast burning powders like Unique, Red Dot, Clays, Bullseye, etc. and never experienced anything remotely like a secondary pressure impulse (or whatever it's called- early onset whatchamacallit you know). That's not to say that I didn't get a few hangfires along the way and maybe fillers would have increased accuracy a few times. Gambling with one's eyes and hands starts to happen with radically reduced loads of 4831, 4350, and other slow powders of that ilk. When it comes to large volume cases like magnums and big ol' black powder rounds I know not, never having messed with them.

I think it's always wise to stick with powders intended for the velocity/case volume/bullet combo one is striving for.

One caveat regarding the OP's question. When working up radically reduced loads there's nothing saying one can't substitute jacketed bullets for cast ones in mid-range loads (say 1300-1800 fps). Expect higher pressures than with cast, but sometimes accuracy can be astonishing and case life is dramatically improved. Just do not try to go sub-sonic with jacketed bullets and light charges of pistol/shotgun powder. The very real likelihood of sticking a bullet halfway down the barrel exists. Ask me how I know...

I'd vote for cast bullet loads as long as the brass isn't used for jacketed bullets after that. I had a number of separations when I failed to segregate the cases in my .250-3000.

Dan

I've heard of that happening, but never experienced it myself. I do segregate the brass, but only because of the chamfer I put on the case mouth and/or if any are specially neck reamed cases for specific bullets. I only ever neck size, even with the lever guns.

Thanks for all the information, I knew if I ask the people in this forum I would get good information.

In my 303 and my 30-30 I'm using 15grns of SR4759 for my cast bullet loads. I could see where 14grns would be about right.

I'll start out with this load with a Lyman 311041.

I always use a neck expander on the case when loading cast bullet so the bullet goes in without shaving the lead off the side. I run the expander down just enough so it flares out the end enough to guide the bullet in, I use a .309. In the 300 savage the .309 would size the entire neck length before it starts to flare out the end. Is the neck expander going to give me problems? Or do I just need to lightly crimp the case after seating the bullet.

Just trying to learn something here. Do you mean case head separations, or split necks and the like? Dont savy how a lighter pressure cast bullet load could make a case more prone for a head separation later.


???????

This certanly makes sense.

Ottsm... welcome to the Forum!!!

Actually, the .300 Savage, even with "maximum" loads, isn't much of a "kicker". I believe the "standard" factory loads (150 grain bullet) have an acknowledge recoil of 14 foot/pounds compared to a .308 Winchester that runs about 18 ft/lbs or a .30/06 which has between 19 to 22 ft/lbs of recoil, depending on the bullet weight.

"Sensed recoil" is determined by several factors, the primary ones are the amount of powder, the bullet weight, the weight of the rifle in which the cartridge is fired and the fit of the rifle to the shooter.

Increasing either the powder amount or the bullet weight will increase the amount of shooter-sensed recoil just as shooting lighter bullets with less powder will reduce the shooter-sensed recoil.

What most would call the "standard" bullet weight for the .300 Savage is 150 grains and that weight bullet is one of the two most common factory loads. The commercial loaders also load the 180 grain bullet, but I'm confident they don't sell all that many rounds loaded with the .180 grain bullets because the longer 180 grain bullets "intrudes" too much into the cartridge case thus limiting the amount of powder that can be put in the case.

But back to how to have an effective (for hunting), yet low recoil round....use lighter bullets and a lighter powder load in a slightly heavier rifle that fits you well.

Certainly, a 125 or 130 grain bullet will get the job done on any deer. Combine that with a starting load of IMR3031, IMR4895 or H4895 (approximately 36.0 grains of powder in any of the three powders) in an 8-8� pound rifle (including scope) that fits you well and you have exactly what you're looking for... a load and rifle yielding a "sensed recoil" of about 10-12 ft/lbs... or about what a .243 Winchester yields in a varmint rifle with a heavy barrel.

Try the above load and see how it goes... (jus' my 2�)


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Sometimes a phenomenon occurs in which the shoulder is driven back ever so slightly, allowing the case to eventually fail if subjected to full pressure loads after having had numerous low pressure loads put through it. Theories are batted around as to why it happens, one of which is that the constant beating caused by the firing pin slowly causes shoulder set-back, coupled with the low pressures of the loads not being sufficient to snap it back. If cases are kept segregated, no harm no foul. Like I said, I never once encountered it. I have only read about it. I suspect there are other mysterious reasons for it, but have no proof. Until we can find a way to install a camera inside the case to record the events that transpire during that micro-second of combustion I suspect we'll never really know. Perhaps it's a job for Super Nanobot!

All that is obviously a moot point with rimmed cartridges. But literally thousands of such loads in medium capacity rimless cases over 40+ years never generated a case failure for me. In an extreme instance, for years I used a big stash of WWI vintage .30/06 brass for all of my cast bullet shooting in that caliber. That stuff had a horrible reputation for being brittle but worked fine for me. I eventually sh*tcanned it because I figured I got my money's worth out of it. After about 30 cycles- why push it.

If you want a real cost savings, select a plain base cast bullet that is sufficiently large enough in diameter to allow it to be thumb seated in an un-sized fired case, but tight enough to stay put while loading it into the chamber. Let it stick way out of the case and rely on contact with the rifling to "seat" it as the bolt is closed. Backed by a pinch of fast shotgun powder and getting barely sonic velocity, you would be amazed at how accurate it can be. You only need to take one case to the range with you, a box of bullets, and a hand tool to de-re cap, and a little powder scoop for a day of pleasant shooting at a cost similar to shooting bulk .22 rimfires, with about as much noise and recoil.

Thanks

Shoulder setback is caused by both the firing pin hitting the case and the primer igniting, driving the case forward. Under normal pressures, the case expands to fill the chamber and the shoulder returns to nominal. Low-pressure rounds won't expand the case enough and the shoulder stays back, creating excessive headspace. This is what happened to my .250-3000 cases; after a dozen or so cast bullet loadings, I went to full-power jacketed loads and there were several partial head separations upon firing. No harm done to the gun, but it could have been worse.

Dan

Some of the low velocity rounds are still producing a high CUP pressure because of the use of faster burning powders. For 300sav, a Lyman 311291 and SR4759 @ 20grns yields a velocity of 1888fps @ 28,800CUP (Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook). Just going up to 22.5gns of SR4759 takes it up to 2047fps @ 40,200CUP. I'm sure the variables are endless but I wonder at what pressure does the problem start to occur.

I honestly don't know, but I'll guess that 20,000+psi should overcome it. Just set aside some cases strictly for use with low vel loads and keep them as such.

You should also try moderate loads of 3031 under a 170 gr. flatpoint .30-30 bullet. I use these in both my .300 (sadly not a Savage) and my .30-40s. Very accurate and really kill deer/pigs at iron sight ranges; sort of a ".30-30+P" load.

The little extra velocity ensures that the 170 gr. opens up very reliably and the 170s have always penetrated well, even at .30-30 carbine velocities.