Hey guys

My 1930 99 "G" has always shot too high and I would like to fix this problem...

See target - all shot at 80yards - bench rest - the top hole is 3+ inches high.

I took the step wedge out of the rear sight so the rear of the sight was sitting on the barrel - the two shots below the top hole was the result.

Then I aimed at the bottom edge of the target without an elevated step wedge and the result was the closest hole.



No more room to lower rear sight - so I guess need to raise front sight (correct? )

Front Sight measurements:



Any suggestions — better plan ?

Which size front sight ? - I would like to raise the rear sight so it's not sitting on the lowest step also...

Any front sights for sale??

Thanks Guys

Chris

Lowering the back sight raises the point of impact.

not true. just the opposite

Just seeing if anyone really read anything before posting

You Sure

Front sight post goes up, point of impact comes down.
If rear sight aperture can move down, point of impact moves down.


From "Adjusting iron sights" web site....

Front sight post goes down, point of impact comes up.
Front sight post goes up, point of impact comes down.
Rear sight aperture moves left, point of impact moves left.
Rear sight aperture moves right, point of impact moves right.
If rear sight aperture can move up, point of impact moves up.
If rear sight aperture can move down, point of impact moves down.

I am really listening - LOL

A bench rest shooter once told me, that as a rule of thumb, a center fire cartridge will cross the line of sight going up at "ABOUT" 25 yards, and coming back down, at "ABOUT" 100 yards. So, you should sight in at either 25 or 100. She told me that, sighting in my T/C Contender with 14" barrel, 4X Lobo scope, in 35 Rem. This sight in practice has held true with every center fire cartridge I've owned. A 250-3000 and a 45-70 will cross the line of sight at about those points, the 250 will have an almost flat curve compared to the 45-70's big arc. If all you shoot is 80 yards that's fine, you'll be dead on. But if you use charts for hold over, or sight in 2" high at 100, to be dead on at 200, all that goes out the window. I sight in at 50 yards on my range knowing all groups will be high, for deer season. But, I've already shot for group size at 100 yards. Sorry I didn't answer your question. I always get confused which way to move iron sights, and have to draw a stick picture of a gun and sight, to figure it out, Joe.

You could pull the bullets and dump half the powder out.


Or else you are going to have to replace the front sight with one .05-.07 higher, and go from there.

I did not have my laser range finder when I set up the target — it was a guess

Later - after shooting - I laser-ed it at 78+ yards

All my deer stands are setup for 65 to 75 yard shots — which is my limit with iron sights ( old eyes - I use 3x readers to read )

I will tell you that my Eye Dr. told me to get lowest power readers I could find and use them with iron sights — (1x readers) seems to focus well enough to see the front sights bead...

Also the bullet never rises — it only descends along its fight path — most bullets are shot from a slightly raised barrel creating the arced fight path she was talking about.

Interesting note: If the barrel is held level — the fired bullet will hit the ground at the same instant as a bullet dropped at the same instant as the fired bullet.—

Thanks

.05 to .07 thanks Jimy - That what I was wanting to know

Yes, the bullet starts to fall the instant it leaves the barrel. But in relation to the line of sight it must cross that line twice, once going up and once coming down. If it didn't cross the line of sight going up you would never be able to hit 100 yards. It would always be low. As you said, the barrel is in a slightly raised position, in relation to the line of sight, causing the bullet to cross the line of sight going up. If the line of sight and the trajectory of the bullet were parallel, you could never hit a target, the bullet would just keep getting lower.

Rather than start an argument, I challenge you to do this, set up three targets at 25, 50 and 100. Sight in at 100, then shoot 1 round at 25 and 50 and post pics of all the targets, Joe.

What cartridge, what bullet?

Is your front sight dovetailed or earlier style?

Lightfoot it's dovetailed

thanks

That makes it easy.

Hey Steelhead

They are 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (Spitzer) Boat Tail
using 37.5 grs - Reloader 15

I have some Speer 165 gr Soft Point - BTSP - - But I have not loaded any of those yet...

It shot equally high with different brands of off the shelf ammo - mostly Remington Core-Lokt.

I'm away from home until next weekend. I should have something that is taller than what you have. I can check then if you can wait.

There is no hurry Lightfoot - thanks

i used brownells' front sight correction calculator:

Formula

Amount of Error X Sight Radius = Sight Correction Needed
Distance to Target

4.5 x 21"
2844" = 0.033

Old sight = 0.035
Correction = +0.033

New sight = 0.068

Is that the right calculation - seems like a tall front sight !

80 yds (in inches) = 2880"

distance from front bead to rear sight is about 21"

2880/21 = 137.143"

every .001" of height you add to the front sight will lower the impact point by .137".

So, 3"/.137" = .022" additional needed to lower the impact point 3" at 80 yds. This is a minimum as the rear of rear sight is setting flat on the barrel.

Thanks Rick

So how much more front sight height do I need to calculate - if I move the rear sight up off the barrel to the second notch in the rear sight wedge. ( It seems to sit firmly on the second notch)


Rear Sight heights:

Resting in barrel = 0.277
Second lowest notch of wedge = 0.308

Thanks again

Chris, this is the front sight on my 1926F in 303, it's a Marbles Improved, and very tall to the bead. I think I had the same problem you do. It shot about a foot high with the rear sight all the way down. I'm going to put a tang sight on it so I can lower it farther. I thought some one said tang sights like tall front sights. Any way, it's been on the back burner for a couple years, maybe I'll get to it this year? Joe.

If you want to raise the rear sight you have to raise the front sight by an equal amount in addition to what was calculated so you will stay on the same plain (not change the impact point.

Is there a 'final answer' on what the overall height of the front sight needs to be? I'm home now and will see what I have if I get a number.

Two times half the distance to the top.

Mike, it sounds like the right replacement sight would be .088".

Current sight: .035" + additional height needed (.022) + the added height needed to set the rear sight on the 2nd notch (.308 - .277 = .031). That adds up to 0.088".

NO, I'm asking for overall height from the bottom of the dovetail to the top of the bead. That is how they are measured by manufacturers I believe.

Ok made some carefull measurments !! found some big mistakes

Lightfoot I need a .500 or about front sight top to bottem of dovetail

The math for anybody intrested:

Current front sight 0.37" (not 0.035 thats a short front sight)

To correct -4" at 80 yards - I need to move front sight up 0.0291

0.37 + 0.029 = 0.399

Rear sight sitting on barrel 0.20

Rear sight on 2nd notch is 0.30

0.30 - 0.20 = 0.10

corrected front sight is 0.399 + (after rear sight change) 0.10 = 0.499

so i need a .500 or about front sight - top to bottem of dovetail

thanks for all the help

The tallest original Savage front sight is about .470. The shortest I have measured is .375.

I don't think I have any tall ones of the older G style on hand but I will take a look. You may have to use a universal brand to get that height.

forget my post

norm

This is correct but you have to think about all the parameters which make.s it confusing.

Hmmm? Put the sights back to original and have a friend shoot at your 80 yard target

Penobscot
I have no friends who would have any idea how to shoot iron sights or be intrested in shooting a "Crap" rifle like a Savage 99...

The problem is you can't shoot deer at 80-100 yards in east Texas piney woods without a 7mm Mag and a $1200 Zeiss scope - everybody know that - Im just play around with rifles just a notch better than a sharp stick!

My friends are no help and completely uninterested - sorry to say - but true...

The real problem this 1930's 99 G in 300Sav cam without a rear sight so I put the rear sight from my 1917 G in 250Sav on the 300 Sav and it just doesn't work it shoots too high.

Time to step back and go it this with a better plan...

Thanks for all you help

Can you post a picture of the back sight that you are using?

Is there enough material to grind the groove .03 deeper to solve your problem?

" I put the rear sight from my 1917 G in 250Sav on the 300 Sav "

Are you using a #15 wind gauge sight? If so you don't want to file on it. FYI...a 1917 .250 is a Model .250-3000 not a "G".

that not the sight - i'll send pic



yes - I called it a G - not sure why

It is a model 250-3000 with checkered trigger

That's a newer sight and according to Murray, wouldn't have been used on the G until 1935.

Did you take that picture? I ask because it looks like one of mine?

Your problem is looking more like a rear than a front sight issue - maybe.

Might need a No 20 flat top instead of a No 20 semi-buckhorn. and not the No 20 flat top for a 1920 bolt gun (on the far right).



...and not the No 20 flat top for a 1920 bolt gun (on the far right).

Ok Guys

I searched 99 rear sight (images) and that one matched the one I have ( it came from this site so it may be yours) ... Hope you don't mind I used it... Lightfoot

I do have this cheap rear sight I picked some were it is 0.26 sitting on the barrel without the notched wedge - and I would have no problem filing it down - LOL

even if was just to measure correct rear sift height...







Thanks again

Chris

Another clear cut case of paralysis by analysis.

At 80ish yards I would hold about 2" below where I wanted to hit.

Problem solved...

Chris, I'd say you're on the right track with that generic version.

99 guy - thats what I've been doing except is about 3-4" high - killed a couple of hogs like that ...

But - I would like to fix the problem - I'm not going to be the last person to shoot the gun and my son never listens to me ( he's 14).

So if he shoot it - he going to complain the it shoots too high - and swear that I never warned him....

Plus I have to have project...!

I think I'm going file down the "cheap" one to just see the results ...

Thanks again

Chris

I was thinking that if it is a cheap replacement rear sight, why not just file the notch deeper and correspondingly the flat top of the sight? Trial and error filing until point of impact coincides with the sights. I would take it low enough so that when done it is resting on the second notch of the elevator. That way you have some adjustment if a future load shoots high again.

I know. It's a curse. Isn't it?

I was 8 inches high at 100 yards and went from a .375" front sight to .50" and then I was able to adjust using the rear lyman 29 1/2

so figure raising the front about 1/8" inch to lower POI about 8 inches

Get some new friends

Hey Guy

"Get some new friends" - ROFL

I would rather get another 2 or 3 M99's

So if Bushmaster1313 "raised front sight about 1/8" inch to lower POI about 8 inches"

Im going file the cheap rear sight down ~1/16" to lower 4" - and see where that get me...

Thanks again
Chris

Thinking you're on the right track. When removing metal from firearms parts, given that you're working with a replacement rear sight, work on the cheapest part first.