Stroebel's book indicates that the Lyman 29 1/2 and 30 1/2 were discontinued by 1955, but it does not indicate when they were first manufactured. If someone has access to early catalogs, I would be interested in learning about when they began making them

Along the same lines, does anyone know about when the Savage No. 18 Combination Rear Sight was discontinued?

Thanks,

Jack

I'd say somewhere in the first decade of the 20th century. Does anyone know if Lyman had these sights out early enough for the production run of the 95?

I don't think the 29 1/2 and 30 1/2 came out until around 1915-1918... 1917'ish is the earliest I was able to find any ads for it when I searched quite a while back. Would love to find the true introduction date.

Don't have the exact date either for the Savage 18 being replaced with the Lyman 1A either, but it was in the first few years of the 1899. 1903 maybe?

Boy, was I off a bit..

1922 was the introduction of the Lyman 103 rear sight, which I believe was a precursor to the 29 1/2 and 30 1/2?

https://books.google.com/books?id=C...%20lyman%20windgauge%20sight&f=false

So, considering how uncommon the 103 is, I presume the 29 1/2 and 30 1/2 came pretty quickly.

I hope somebody with exact knowledge of the 103/30 1/2 pipes up. I was under the impression that the 30 1/2 came first, around 1918.

Me too!

I saw Lyman reprint supposedly 1919 and it included the 29 & 30.

Got several old catalogs here somewhere. Danged if I can find 'em.

Yep, somebody has to know. Rick99 will pop in within a couple of days if nothing else.

Sure would like to find a 103 that costs less than a nice EG.

Does the 103 have micrometer windage and elevation adjustments? When I see sights like that I have to wonder why they didn't survive very long on the market. At least not as long as the other sights we commonly run into. Too costly to produce or just not a hit with the rifle crowd? Sometimes I think it's the latter more so than the former. There's got to be a good reason for their scarcity.

Micro adjustable in both directions. Very expensive then as now. More at home on target rifles than on hunting rifles. I've seen 20 for Stevens/Winchester single shots for every one I saw for the 99.

From Savage catalogs-

1897 & 1900 - No 18 & No 19

1903 - No 18 ($3.00), No 19 ($3.50) & No 20 ($6.00) = "Lyman Combination Rear Wind-Gauge Sight"= Lyman No 29, this has the fold down thumb tab for windage adjustment and is the 1902 Lyman catalog (the only early Lyman catalog I have).

Catalog No 15 (1905) The No 18 is now the No 1B and the No 19 the No 2B - no other tang sights
This is the same in catalogs No 16 (~1906~1907~), No 17 (1907), No 24 (~1908~1909~), No 35 (~1910~) and No 40 (~1911~)

Catalog No 55 (~1914~) No 1B, No 2B, 29½B, and 30½B

Thanks, Gene!

As a note, all the above are Lyman sights. Savage assigned their own numbers to sights then later changed to the makers numbers.

As for the sight(s) available for the 1895's, the first was made by Lyman and had to be attached at the wrist with wood screws even though the tang was D&T's. The sight design Lyman used was similar to what was used on most other non-Savage rifles and might have been a combination of parts already in production. The Savage #18/#19 were probably available at the end of the 1895 run as the rifles were produced in 1896 and 1897.

Thanks Gene for doing all the leg work.

I nominate Gene to fill the position of Most Excellent Researcher, Lord Mayor of Minutia.

Here, here - Seconded!

All in favor say aye.

Aye!

Gene, Rick, and All,

Thanks for the great information, but it's still 100% clear to me. Probably my original question wasn't detailed enough.

Based on Stroebel's book, the Savage No. 18 and No. 19 were Lyman Combination Tang Sights - Second Variation (No locking lever.) The third variation of the Lyman Combination Tang Sight with the locking lever was patented July 25, 1905. Gene, if it's not too much trouble, can you tell from the catalogs you cited when the change over occurred from no locking lever to locking lever?

In looking at Stroebel's again I came across the following, "In 1909 Savage went to a new system that incorporated the original maker's model number in its model designation."

I kind of suspected that the 29 1/2 and 30 1/2 were introduced some time in the 19 teens, but it is nice to have that confirmed.

Thanks again,

Jack

This blog from Vintage Gun sights has some pretty good info. Jaaack, it will answer your question (as long as the info is accurate).
http://www.vintagesights.com/apps/blog/entries/show/4339619-lyman-sight-code

Jack, The last Savage catalog to actually picture the Lyman sights was No 50 (~1912~) and it still has the same picture as all the earlier catalogs, I looked at a number of newer catalogs and no pictures, trying to find the time of the change in Savage literature appears to be a dead end. The Lyman sight with either the 'ring' spring or the locking feature proportionally cannot take as long a stem as the design used for the No 18 & No 19, so either of those newer designs would require the sight to extend back farther on the gun to allow it to be tall enough to have a reasonable adjustment range, this may be why they stayed with the original design for so long. The same basic design used for the No 18 was used for the Remington pumps and the Winchester 61 - as far as I know these were the only option Lyman ever offered - for these to be able to mount a taller sight the base would have to extend back a few inches and would not be very practical.

To find a time when the new design was offered for 1899's you will probably need to looks at Lyman catalogs or suppliers catalogs - maybe Stoeger's? if someone has library full of them.

Yeah, you can't even look at Savage catalog to find dependable times when changes were made to 1899's or 99's.

Can you imagine somebody trying to figure out the dates and styles of 99H changes in the 20's and 30's based solely off the catalogs?

I couldn't imagine trying to track dates of factory changes in Savage's current production line based solely on current catalog listings.

Gene,

Thanks for the additional info. I know some reprints of Lyman catalogs are available, but I don't know what the oldest ones available are. I'll have to take a look.