Thanks to Gary and JeffG, I was schooled in the process of making a reliable round in 22 HP.
As Gary said, Sellior and Bellot (SP) ammo is like a shotgun pattern. VERY unstable round.
The rest of this discovery post is in bold text and a photo.

Sellior and Bellot (SP) ammo is like a shotgun pattern. VERY unstable round. 50 yards, Marbles Peep sight.



I spoke with Gary in a PM specifically about his lead rounds that he casts. I scrubbed every bit of copper out of the barrel upon Gary's recommendation on my 1913 22 HP and boy oh boy did it bleed blue!



I contacted The Bullet Man in Montana and low/behold, he casts a 64 grain gas checked, lube .228 bullet. Boom! Bought 100 for $25 including shipping.



I loaded 10 test rounds, 19 grs of BLC-2, Lg Rifle primer and proceeded to the range today. The result from the first photo, compared to this photo is remarkable. Granted, I was looking for a closer grouping than the Sellior and Bellot, and I got those results at 50 yards. The first two shots were low, then the grouping started showing.



[b]Pleased with the results and great information from Gary, JeffG, I proceeded to use my Drill press CTS Case trimmer (.223 )to trim the brass to 2.045 and then chamfered, and steel-pin tumbled for 90 minutes.



Using mutliple sources and word of mouth (including Load Data website, which as been my "Go To" analysis along with 3 different manuals,) I decided to try another 10 rounds at 23.1 grains of BLC-2 for my next outing. I'm certain I can get these groups tighter with the 104 year old rifle! It sure is fun researching, testing in the field, etc. these old cartridges! My next outing I will chrono these rounds I made today. I'm looking for 2200 fps for this old bang stick, and no more!

Neat!

Nice work...my 22 HP from 1917 shoots those S&B loads wayyyy worse than yours...they'll hit the target sideways at 25 yards.

Gary's casted rounds did somewhat better, but still tumbled, whether with full power loads or 5 grains of Unique. It'll stabilize NO .224 bullet, save the 63 sierra, but even it makes a 1 foot group at 50 yards. All other .224 bullets hit the target sideways at any range. I scrubbed the hell out of the bore too.

I then found some .228 sisk bullets. Both 55 grain and 70 grain. Instant success...since my sisk bullets are in short supply, I may look into this "bullet man"...

I am on a mission to kill a deer with the 70 grain sisk bullets this year...passed a 2x2 mulie the other day and a doe whitetail this morning. Maybe tomorrow!

Inman, good luck on your hunt!
Agree on the sideways, you can see a couple in my first post picture target! S & L Tumbled like pre-67 AR-15 bullets! But hey, good brass after they're fired.
You can find Bullet Man Dan auctions for bullets on Gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/714763902

"T" let us know how you do! I like useing Imr 3031 in my 22HP

Great report! Thanks for tracking the details for us!

Had my 22HP to the range about a week ago for the first time. Tried .227 70 gr. Hornady Spire Pts. over 25 gr. of 3031. Terrible accuracy and 3 out of 4 split cases. I will be pulling the rest of the batch. Has anyone had success with Norma .228 71 gr. using 3031 or any other powder?

Jim, my load for the 22 HP is 70 gr Norma, 25.3 gr 3031 with CCI primer. At 50 yards on the bench I was about an inch and a half high and an inch and a half to the right, through the 1912 Malcolm scope. Right at a one inch group. Using the tang sight had the same one inch group. But, I had primers popping and we stuck a field gauge in it, and it closed, showing some head space issues. I still plan on using it one day this year trying for the Savage Slam, Joe.

Thanks Joe, I would certainly be happy with that accuracy. Not sure why my cases are splitting ( in the shoulder area ) They were older Imperial brass but looked to be only once fired. I will try annealing them.

Amazing how much copper can come out of some of these old barrels. One of the reasons I love foaming bore cleaners...

Good post, glad it started shooting well for you. I shoot cast bullets out of my 32-40's, but never out of anything else. Might have to give them a try.

That's what I used, a good foaming bore cleaner.

I use 3031 and H-4895 interchangeably in the HP- 23 grains 3031, 24 grains 4895, 70 grain bullets. Light-ish loads? Yes, but I doubt a deer will feel the difference of a couple grains of powder, and accuracy for me is better and brass lasts longer. Favorite bullet is the RWS H-Mantle 70 grain .228 (try finding them ), followed by Sisk 63 and 70 grain .228's. (Do I shoot those rare bullets willy-nilly at targets? Nope, just enough to sight in and then a handful to hunt with which go back into storage until the next year if they don't get used. Most of my jacketed bullet target shooting is with shortened Hornady 70's, plus a lot of cast bullets.)

For some reason BL-C2 never worked well for me.

I got promising results with CFE-223 and Varget in the .22HP this fall, and will pursue its use in future. I'll keep you posted.

Unless the cast bullet is carefully fitted to the throat (.0005" undersize or so) and the nose sized to just barely ride on the lands, and the alloy matched to the velocity (don't exceed the elastic limits of whichever alloy is employed), y'all won't get pleasing results with them. With Bullet Man's bullets, I got crappy results with 3031 and velocities over 2000fps. Best results were with SR-4759 and 2400 for "high" velocities around 1800-1900fps, and Unique and Bullseye for regular "low" velocities of around 11-1200 fps. (Which holds true for the bullets I cast for myself.) A wise man told me once that a bullet only has to make it as far as the target and with enough speed to make a hole in the paper. No sense in driving fast as long as accuracy is there.

Dan's bullets aren't terribly hard and as such not up to the stress of factory velocities, unless he's changed things since I last sampled them. The thing about jacking cast bullets up to 2500+fps is it can be done, but the resulting hard-as-sin alloy needed to achieve that precludes expansion, and the fit to the throat/bore better be friggin' perfect. They'll shatter if bone is hit (typical of hard cast bullets), otherwise they behave quite like FMJ bullets. That's why I draw the line at using cast .22 bullets for deer. Give me a 190-220 grain soft cast .30 bullet at 1800 fps, or better yet a larger/heavier caliber if cast bullet hunting perfection is the goal.

If Barnes would make a 50 or 55 grain TSX in .228 diameter, I would kiss their asses in the public square and give them two hours to draw a crowd.

Ha! That would be outstanding though wouldn't it?

Or the little 64 gr bonded bullet by Nosler, bumped up to .228" instead of .224" diameter.

This is a good thread. Thanks so much for documenting the loads and results. I need to do some more work with my 1913 .22 Hi Power.

Guy

Jim, all of my brass was reformed 30-30, it was annealed, Joe.

Annealing is a mandatory step in my reloading process. I typically re-use brass 5-7 times before re-applying heat to anneal.

Especially want to anneal if altering brass, such as when forming HP's from .30-30 brass. I don't bother when forming from .25-35 brass.

Apologies to all you Canucks, but Imperial .22HP brass doth truly sucketh. I wouldn't think of using anymore of that brass without annealing it.

Today has been a long day...


23 grains of IMR 3031 and 70 grain Sisk...at maybe 25 yards...bullet worked just fine.

Great Job! Congrads On the Nice Buck also! put this pic up in the 99 Kill Page! Gotta Love the 22HPs!

done.

Thanks!

Fantastic! Good juju with that load. My hunting ammo is ready to go, with that same load (using both 70 grain Sisks and RWS H-Mantels).

Great to see these results.Need to get those reloads pulled,anneal the brass,and reload with the .228 Norma's. Gnoahhh can you elaborate on how you shorten your Hornady's please. Wish we could hunt with a HP up here but will have to be satisfied with Coyote or beaver for a Savage grand slam. Does that count? Maybe could have a Cdn. Savage grand slam for those of us in the north.

I use a file trim die, and I made a few for members here over the years. Basically a piece of steel with a .228" hole through it honed so bullets slip fit in it, of the length required, hardened so that a file won't touch it. Insert bullet, file off tip until file glances off the top of the die, done. Repeat until they're all done. Takes about a minute total per bullet- knock out a box of a hundred while watching a movie on TV.

I make the dies out of 1/2" diameter steel and nest them in larger blocks of metal so they're easy to use and allow for lead filings to be easily cleaned away.

Congratulations Inman! Hope to post a similar pic soon.

Nice write up on the range test. I have a 1917H in 22Hi-Power that has a very good bore. I have never had good results with S&B Factory ammo. It shoots Norma and
hand loads very well. I put on a Redfield receiver mounted peep which helps with the groups. I can get 1 inch to 1.5 inches at 100 yards with Norma or hand loads. Double
that size for S&B. I bought 6 boxes of S&B back in 2006 when it was on sale for $8 box. Just to get the brass. However 10% of the brass cracked at the neck on first firing.

Nice Deer!

300S, that seems to be a high percentage!

You know what I do with that stuff? I pull the bullets, dump the powder into the flower bed, de-cap and anneal the brass, re-charge with a sane powder charge and re-seat the bullets.

LOL! That's exactly what I did with the 2nd box of S&B,Gary! 'cept I haven't reloaded the other 20 yet.

So am I to understand that the 70 gr S&B projectiles them selves are decent enough quality? There is a supplier in Canada that sells them for $36 / 100. In my search someone else suggested re-sizing 70 gr..243 bullets in a size and lube die which is apparently available from Lee.

Resizing a non-cast bullet?

That's a new one on me.

I think that as a general rule, the S&B bullets themselves are decent quality. It is just that the twists in most .22 HP barrels doesn't jive with that of most actual 5.6x52R barrels, which (I think) is what the S&B bullets were designed for. It sounds like some .22 HPs shoot them just fine, but most don't, so you may want to try it.

Good luck with it. These .22 HPs are finicky, but sure are fun.

Wow! Congratulations. Nicely done.

BTW - is the .228" 70 gr Speer considered a good choice, for a hunting bullet? I stumbled onto a box of them recently. Mine seem to weigh more like 71 grains.

Guy

Thanks Inman. Never asked but I assumed he was talking about resizing .243 cast bullets. But you know what the saying is about assumption.

Thanks Guy!

As far as the .228" 70 grain speer...I have no idea. Never shot one. Wouldn't mind trying though.

I do know that speer bullets have always impressed me as hunting bullets despite their somewhat low key reputation. I have always had really good luck with them.

I wouldn't try resizing .243's down to .228's for two reasons. First, it would be a helluva grunt to squeeze them through a push through die. Second, jacket material (gilding metal) has more elasticity to it than the lead core does and will spring back ever so slightly after passing through the die (unless that is taken into account when making the die), while the lead won't- causing the tight bond between jacket and core to be maybe not so tight anymore.

Also when you shrink a cylinder's diameter while retaining the same mass/volume, it elongates. That could pose a problem with making .243's into .22 HP bullets where bullet length is already a critical factor with our guns.

I never stuck a deer with the Speer .228 either. I do notice a disturbing phenomenon with those bullets though. While they are crazy good accurate, for me they leave a suspicious blue trail behind them as they fly- a tracer as it were. I noticed this out of each gun of mine. Then, on the target each bullet hole exhibits a little smear of blue-black next to the hole- puts me in mind of a picture of a comet, or like the foot sticking out of a steamer clam shell. Sort of like each hole has a little tail on the paper. I was told that's due to molten lead being shed from the bullet jacket. Weird. I could buy that if I were driving them at extremely high velocity such as from a .220 Swift or .22 Marciante Blue Streak (which was how that wildcat got its name), but this is .22 HP I'm talking about, and I load for it fairly lightly to boot. What that all means is a mystery to me, but that is why I have shied away from using them for deer hunting- I don't want a bullet with a half melted core, if that's what it is, trying to penetrate into the boiler room of a deer. I never observed that phenomenon with any other HiPower bullet.

Maybe Santa will bring me a set of .228 bullet swaging dies for Christmas so I can make my own damn bullets and not have to rely on availability of obscure factory offerings anymore.

I'd buy some...

Guy

Hit the range with 20 rds of 22 HP 23 gr BLC2 and 64 gr "Bullet Man" lead bullets with copper gas check and lube.
I was looking for 2200 fps and I was pleased with the results. Not so please with the standard deviation though. I think I can experiment with some other ball powder (such as CFE 223) to control it.

I was looking for groups, and not adjusting the Lyman 58A. Essentially a 2" MOA at 50 yards...I'll take that for these old eyes. After a fouling shot away from target...my 2nd shot was dang near a bullseye. I almost put the rifle away after that.

Data below. I removed the 2300+ fps on the chrono calculation as it was the only one above 2300 but wanted you guys to see it. Probably a Auto Progessive drop of ball powder that was a .10 of a gr more.

Okay, settled on 22 grains (should get me slightly under 2200 fps) for the old girl.
Hand loaded a few last night.

This is a terrific topic and now has me looking around for a 22HP. I like the idea of casting the bullets and was hoping someone could tell me the Lyman/Ideal code for the bullet mold to use? I did some searching on the web for this and came up with numbers 22835, 228367 and 228391. Are any of these correct or better than the others. Are there additional molds to look for? Big gunshow coming up in December and I’d like to look for a mold, as well as manufactured bullets. I bought 150 Hornady 25-35 cases and a Redding die set. I will of course be looking for a Savage Rifle too. Thanks!

John