I recently bought a lot of two Krag-Jørgensen Model 1898’s at auction, these are the first I ever owned (or ever wanted to) and it’s the first time I had a chance to closely examine one. They are really very interesting rifles, I really found the design features interesting. I now see why sporting conversions of these were so popular, some of the features make them seem more suited to that than to ‘modern’ military use.

I only wanted one of the two but you couldn’t split the lot. Here are some pictures. Both have 1902 cartouches.





Different front sights, the muzzle cap will not fit on the lower one.

Same Buffington rear sight on both, this sight was one of several used on these rifles over the short period they were in service. The graduations will not be correct for the one I wanted and it’s the one I consider worth the most by far. It was re-barreled about the 1902~1904 period and is now a single shot.





The only thing done to the gun was to replace the barrel, no other modification were required. The bore is off center so the firing pin will hit the rim of a 22 Long Rifle cartridge, doing this also places the rim of the cartridge up where the original extractor will catch it for extraction. It is slightly heavier than an original, 9lbs 10oz compared to 9lbs 8oz, but for use as a trainer it would be almost ideal because everything else is exactly the same as the service rifle - because it is the service rifle, it could be returned to original 30US (30-40 Krag) just by replacing the barrel...but what would you do with a 30" Pope barrel if you did that?



I found a video that really goes into detail on the features of the Krag-Jørgensen (which means it is very long @ 1 hour 45 min.- The Milwaukee Brewer’s started losing, so I watched the whole thing).

Krag 1898 video

After seeing how the magazine on these works I now know one major reason why this rifle was chosen in the US military trials over the others, including the Savage; the Krag-Jørgensen addresses all of the wants that were asked for when using loose ammunition. It can easily be switched to block the magazine for single loading; the magazine can be loaded, unloaded or topped off with the bolt open or closed, with or with out a round in the chamber – and this can all be done in a prone position without having to raise the rifle. The video goes on to explain that after facing the stripper-clip loaded Mauser’s in Spanish-American War our military realized being able to shoot single shot and using loose ammunition was not a very good thing anymore… even though we'd won!

Very interesting conversion Gene. I'm sitting on a pile of 30/40 ammo and hope to find a worthy rifle to shoot it in someday.

Krags are cool, just ask Gary. It looks like both yours started life as 1898 infantry rifles. The rear sights are 1901 sights and they are much like the later sight that was used on the 1903 Springfield. Before you pass them off keep in mind that Redfield made a “no drill” 70 that could be used in place of the 1901 sight. The Redfield 70 uses the screw that holds in the side plate and the receptical for the the magazine cutoff to hold it in place. I have a nice 1896 receiver that’s begging to be built into a “period” Sporter. I’m thinking something along the lines if the 1903 NRA Sporter after I get a project finished to restore one of those I recently acquired. Nice rifles!y

I have an 1896 Krag .30/40 in the same configuration, Fun to shoot with cast bullets and very slick action. Never seen the one in 22. Heard they were out there.

Nice.. and especially with a Pope barrel!

Oh My God!! I hate you, Gene!! I've been hankering for a Pope barreled Krag .22 since I was in diapers! (Naw, I don't hate you. Just green with envy!) Great snag! When I got down to the 7th pic my jaw dropped. I knew right away what it was, and why you would've wanted it. Now you need some .22 Pope Armory cartridges to go with it!

I've owned literally dozens of Krags since my first one 50 years ago. Currently I have a custom Krag single shot in .22 Maximum Lovell and a M1896 done up as a pre-war G&H sporter sporter, the action of which is attributable to a trooper in the 1st Volunteer Cavalry (Rough Riders). One of the neatest rifles ever invented, IMO.

The Ordnance Dept. was casting about for an alternative to using reloaded cast bullet gallery loads for use in Armory's across the country when Pope was approached to come up with a solution. That eccentric bore which allowed use of the stock firing pin and bolt must have been a pisser to engineer- in not just one but each and every specimen.

Wanna sell it?!!

Those are really cool. I didn't know they had conversions like that.

Thanks for the video too.

I have three basic rifles that fill my category of cool. They all shuffle back and forth for first place but the rifles are the Savage 99, 1903 Springfields and the Krags (1894, 96 and 98).

Gary - I’ve read about the Krag 22s but always thought they used a standard 22 long rifle. What is the 22 Pope Armory? Also, ya just gotta post a picture of that 96 Sporter!

GeneB - Man, you gotta keep that 22 Krag. The Stevens Pope connection puts it in good stead with a Savage collection!

Hush!

As far as I know they'll shoot regular long rifles. I'm sure Gene will be along to give us the straight skinny. Remember, at the turn of the century the long rifle cartridge was in its infancy and not standardized across the board as it is now. As I recall from talking with Mr. Pope, the .22 Pope Armory cartridge had a bullet designed to perfectly fit the throats that he was cutting back then.

Had a sporterized Krag for some years and wish I had not let it go. It had the slickest bolt action I’ve ever experienced, a trait they were known for.

I think that U.S. Krags were popular sporting conversions because the rifles/carbines regularly sold for less than $10, so nearly anyone could afford one. Also, 30-40 Krag hunting ammo was widely available and powerful enough for bear, elk, and moose in addition to deer. When I was a kid, mil-spec and sporterized U.S. Krags were commonly seen in used gun racks everywhere in New England. Until 1983 I had a sporterized U.S. Krag that was 'smithed by Vermont gunsmith Wilbur Hauck and currently have a sporterized Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55.

This is one of two that I have ever owned. I always was fascinated by the smooth bolt. It wasn't until I got more experience under my belt that I realized it was smooth because of the one locking lug. This particular one is one of the better shooting ones that I have handled.

What a neat piece of history you found Gene, congrats!

Krag actions are smooth as glass because of the relatively tight tolerances between its moving parts and its glass hard carburized surfaces, in conjunction with its ingenious simple design in which the locking lug bears against a raceway, and the long extractor which rides in the split rear bridge. Both features act to keep the bolt from binding as it is moved in and out.

Many have decried its single locking lug in that it makes for a "weak" action. Truth of the matter is that it is fine for its intended purpose- 40,000 psi or so. (Remember this was the 1890's- low carbon carburized steel was the material of choice for a lot of gun makers. Stay at or under that and a Krag will last you another hundred years. Plus it has a huge safety lug also that absolutely will prevent the bolt blowing out in the absurdly unlikely event that the one lug shears off. Michael Petrov did an experiment in which he destruction tested a '98 Krag: Ever increasingly larger charges of Bullseye were employed starting at 5 grains, while firing the gun remotely, until it finally came unglued. The final charge was over 25 grains, making for ungodly pressures. The barrel and receiver ring were wrecked but the bolt stayed put- even though Michael had ground the locking lug off entirely, leaving the safety lug to do all the work.

Anybody who has ever had to load a rifle while suffering with cold numb fingers will speak lovingly of the Krag: just snap open the magazine and dump a handful of cartridges in and slam it shut. Charging clips that actually worked quite well were invented, but too late to assuage the naysayers who said it was slow to reload in combat. There's a guy over on the Krag collectors website who makes nice repros.

Several years ago I saw a custom Krag in 25-35 for sale at a local shop and it was a really nice looking rifle. Went back later and of course it was gone.

Krags rule!

It’s that simple.

I think Im finally down to only 4 rifles in .30 US Army ctg. 2 krags, 2 1895 Wins. They get toted to the field on a regular basis. Prolly elk hunt this year with Krag as it shoots them 220 RN’s so damn well!l and sports a a Redfield #70 receiver sight. Tote 95 SRC for a backup rifle. .

Very interesting rifles, now I know what that brass cap I have had for years in a parts drawer fits!!

Gene

Unfortunate that you were forced to take the second one. Sometimes life throws us curve balls. Nice score GW

It’s interesting how the bore of the Stevens-Pope 22 barrel was drilled off-center at the breech to on-center at the muzzle. That must have been a complicated task to calculate and accomplish.

Notice also that the result of that is the .22 bore is angled down from breech to muzzle. I'm curious to see after Gene shoots it (I hope) how much that effects the sight settings. I'm thinking the rear sight has to be jacked up fairly high.

It would be interesting knowing how the 1901 sight works with 22 ammo given it’s calibration for the 220-grain service round. I’d pop on a Redfield 70 if the 1901 sight proved to be problematical.

The old Pacific no-drill sight is another option.

Very, very nice. Love that left-hand twist.

interesting read: http://www.oldbike.eu/centurycolumbia/?page_id=431

I have a Krag sporter. It is accurate and that magazine!!!!!!! Coolest thing ever - just drop 'em in pointing in the right direction and you're good to go. Damnedest thing. :-)

T.S.

A little late responding, but I had to find a few things that I wanted to get pictures of. First there was a questions of the sights... well over the years I acquired some Rice peep sights, not something I plan on using....




I often wondered exactly how these attached, I though there was a screw that had to be replaced with a longer one, it appear that it's a pin that has the head staked in place that would have to be replaced with a special screw... now that I know that, I 'think' there may have been one of those screws in a parts lots I got one of the sights from... but where it is today is unknown!


The original Krag still had these in the butt, not sure of the cleaning rod, it does not have a handle and is not long enough to clean the whole barrel from one end, but that's all that will fit?


I did test shoot the Krag 22 with some CB Longs, nothing that would tell me how well the sights will work. It extracts well until the case is about 3/4 out of the chamber and then, because there is nothing opposite the extractor to keep the case from dropping down, it slips off leaving the case where you can get hold of it, or shake it out. If it comes out all the way it will fall into the magazine well...Hmmm?...wonder how many 22 cases it would hold before you'd have to empty it?

I am not sure exactly what the the 22 Pope Armory cartridges were but I am quite sure one feature was that the rim of the case was not crimped to hold the bullets, that was a feature of all the first 22 Long Rifle cartridges because they were intended for target use in single shots and it was felt the crimp affected accuracy. There is not much of the bullet in the case and without the crimp it could easily be dislodged - Stevens even warns when extracting a live round of the possibility in single shots that the bullet could be pulled from the case if it's chambers so the bullet contacts the rifling.


Due to un-crimped 22 Long Rifle ammunition still being around some early semi-auto's in 22 Long Rifle were marked for 'crimped cartridges' because of the possibility of bullets coming out of the cases. Some other repeaters from the time just weren't offered in 22 Long Rifle, the Winchester pumps weren't until a couple years after the Model 1906 was introduce.


The early Savage 1912's had the "CRIMPED" stamp added, as pictured above, later it was added to a new roll stamp.

Offset bores in 22's were not a new thing when the Pope conversions were done, all Quackenbush Safety Rifles had an offset bore to allow for milling the rear bottom of the barrel flat for the swiveling breech block.

image limit of 6 reached - will have to use click on the link to see the Quakenbush....

[img]https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/75780.jpg[/img]

I never cared for the Rice sight. Too limited range of adjustment. And yes, Gene, the extractor rivet does get replaced with a screw when using the Rice sight.

The Krag cleaning rod sections were meant to be shared by squad mates- mix and match to make a long enough rod for the 30" rifle barrel. The three sections work to do a carbine barrel.

No Krags but I do have this...



(still located at Photobucket. Hope you can see it.)

Given that most Krag extractors are held on with a rivet I always wondered how the Rice site was attached. The Rice sight is a clever design but it always looked like an econo sight to me.

... bring 'em to the Savage Fest, I'll have the rifle & we can break the box open....
Yes, the Krag should make it to the Fest.

I can see your picture for now, I have found that photobucket will on occasion let the pictures through, might not see it tomorrow, I also found that the fix mentioned in the above sticky does work, have it on my older computer.

I found there was another type of 22 conversion for the Krags, I believe your ammunition was intended for that one. It was a little more involved, it appeared to use an extractor in the replacement barrel that was activated by the original extractor and apparently had an ejector. 1898-kragjorgensen-gallery-practice-rifle. (but I think they will still shoot just fine in mine....)

I was planning on selling the Rice sights on ebay as one lot since they are all different, but I think I now have to keep them as curiosity pieces to go with the Krag (singular, just plan on keeping the 22).

I would be keen to know the rifling rate of twist in this rifle. Noodling around on the Krag collector's forum turns up some controversy over the ROT in the Stevens-Pope barreled Krags. One guy claims a 1-28 twist and obviously gets much better accuracy with .22 shorts. I have no clue what the bullet weight is for the Armory cartridges. Since at the time serious indoor target shooters favored the .22 short cartridge over the long rifle, perhaps Stevens made a few so chambered? .22 long rifle ammo didn't hit its stride until the immediate post-WWI period. Word amongst some is that the bores varied in diameter also, with some being .226-.227 (sound familiar?), and that cartridges weren't crimped making extraction of unfired rounds dicey.

Rick- how about cutting that box open so we can see if the cartridges were crimped or not and what the bullet diameter is. Kidding!!

Evidently these guns were made at the behest of National Guard units of several states and wasn't an idea cooked up by Army Ordnance. The chief of Ordnance at the time (1904-1908 time period) balked at the idea of them and ordered all extant rifles to be re-barreled back to the .30-40 cartridge. No one knows the extent to which that order was obeyed. Plus, the barrels could be purchased from Stevens privately so some were undoubtedly converted to .22 by private individuals.

It is said that the dovetail front sight slot was done that way to accommodate a "target" front sight. (Arsenal barrels have a shallow mortise into which the issue front sight base is soldered.) Again, who knows for sure. If intended for a target front sight (I'm assuming globe sight, but maybe they considered the Beech front sight to be a target sight too) then why no provision for a target rear sight? The M1901 rear sight, while being probably the best of the issue Krag sights, would be a poor choice to mate with a "target" front sight.

Pretty murky territory, but fascinating nonetheless. I'm glad it's Gene who has the rifle- he is best equipped to suss out the details of it IMO!!

The M1898 Gallery Practice Rifles you referenced, Gene, was Army Ordnance's answer to the training rifle problem. It was Pope's idea to go the other direction with the eccentric bore and utilize the issue bolt (and thus keeping the rifle easily converted back to .30 in an emergency if needs be), after the National Guard outfits approached Stevens for a solution (where Pope was ensconced at the time as chief barrel guy).

One of the state National Guard's in 1901 asked Stevens to modify a Krag to .22 for training. In order to find better ammo, Stevens worked with Peters and created the Armory loading. The online .22 Box ID (originating from the Tony Dunn book) shows seven different Peter's Stevens-Pope loadings for the Krag starting in 1905 (1905-~1920). Winchester began loading, two versions, in 1906 and UMC, one version, in 1907. The last two were not as popular as the Peters and are rare.

I checked the rifling, it's 1:16 and the gun is chambered for 22 Long Rifle. The bore is quite consistent with just a few very light spots that I think are lead from the muzzle to just in front of the chamber where there is more leading - until I can get that out any bullet will be made under size and will probably just rattle down the 28 or so inches of cleaner rifling.

Another problem with early 22 ammo was the external lube, early lubes were quite messy and you could buy bare lead ammo, some of the guns from that period have terrible leading, this one is not all that bad, checking the bore from the muzzle it looks quite good. It would not easily chamber a 22 Long Rifle when I got it, it must have been shot a lot using shorts, the chamber did clean up good, still working on the tight spot though.

Non-lubricated 22 ammunition must still have been an issue into the mid to later 1930's, the gun pictured is an early non-gilled Savage Model 6 from ~1935~1936~.



Added, I forgot to comment on the dovetailed front sight, I think the reason could that it was just the cheapest & easiest way to do it and it would be durable enough for the intended use of these.

Found this in my Newton book I was reading today. Thought it might be of interest.

From the reading chair last evening.
The Story of Pope Barrels, Ray M. Smith

Probably nothing new but interesting nonetheless.