I plan on using the load I found in this thread HERE of 25gr of H-4895 and a 70gr SP.

Does new 25-35 brass require any step other than running it thru the sizing die?

Any suggestions for a newbie who is about to try his hand at reloading the 22 HP?

Just run the brass through the HP die. Set up the die to leave the new neck a little long, so you feel a little resistance when you close the bolt on an empty case. That'll keep the case head back tight against the bolt face for the initial case forming firing and lessen any deleterious effects of sloppy headspace if there is any.

Personally I would start a couple grains lower for initial firing, and work up a little in subsequent loads if accuracy demands it. Keeping your loads on the lighter side will extend case life and kill paper targets very handily. Save the full throttle stuff for when you hunt with it.

Thanks!!

Thats the load i use. What bullet you trying to use?


Joe

https://shop.reedsammo.com/228-70g-Soft-Point-100-22870gSP.htm?categoryId=-1

I was just getting ready to purchase some of them but wasnt sure how they would shoot. I would be willing to buy a couple from you to try.

Joe

Any load suggestions for a 64/65gr lead gas checked bullet?

I use a 65gr cast bullet for plinking with 7gr of Unique powder.

Any filler or special procedure?

That's a decent all around cast bullet load. Fillers are totally unnecessary, and can actually damage the chamber if employed incorrectly. Gas checks would be required at that velocity level.

Follow standard protocols for loading cast bullets- the main one being to flair the case mouth so as not to shave lead when seating. Crimp enough to flatten the flair when seating the bullet and no more. (Crimping is another unnecessary thing when loading for a rotary magazine Savage.) If using bullets larger than .228 it's a good idea to acquire a larger neck expander plug too. (You should measure throat diameter and size the bullets to that or .0005" less than that. If that means .229 or .230", then so be it. Bore and groove diameter, contrary to old wive's tales, is secondary to throat diameter when determining optimal size of cast bullets. Select an expander plug that is .001-.002" smaller than the bullet diameter for optimal grip. Using the standard jacketed bullet expander plug under those circumstances will cause the lead bullet to be squeezed to a smaller diameter than that which you so carefully acquired.)

Cast bullet loading demands a little more attention than simple jacketed bullet handloading, but the rewards are great.

No filler. I use the 65gr gas checks from bullet man dan on GB. The shop name is called The Bull Shop.

Joe

I ran a few of my reloads of 24.9gr of H4895 with a Reeds 70gr SP over the chrony with the results being an average of 2633 fps.

Any load recommendations for a .228" 45gr SP?

How did you like the 70gr from Reeds? I tried them and they shot well. They grouped better with Rel-7 vs 4895.

Joe

They were about the same as the S&B factory. What gr. of Rel-7 and what velocity did you get?

I used 21gr of Rel-7. Did not chrono. I got the load from Ken Waters book. If i recall it was a medium load.

Joe

I don't have magnumitis, I am just looking for an accurate, factory equivalent load.

Its not a hot load. I believe its slower than the 25gr of H4895. Not home to check the book.

Joe

I found the mention of Reeds bullets interesting.. I have an article from the 1943 Rifleman and the .22HP is mentioned... I believe he like a 59 gr Reeds bullet for coyotes.. Cool!!!!!

According to the book it states velocity of 2739 which is almost identical to the H4895 load.

Joe

I don't have any new information or insight to contribute to this thread and at the risk of getting it off topic:

I would give my eye teeth to shoot a real MP44...

Thanks!!

Had excellent results with the 70 gr Speer .224 semi-point and 25 gr 4198. Not fast but 1" at 100.

before Sierra bullets quit making and selling .227 caliber bullets for a 22 HP cartridge i purchased 500 bullets so i am set for a long time now. i don`t shoot my Savage 99 22 H.P. take down much anymore

I wasn't aware that Sierra ever made .228 bullets.

i was wrong the bullets are Hornady with bullet .227 dia.

Any suggestions on a powder and amount to try, to push a 45gr sp around 2000fps?

You have .228 diameter 45's? Assuming .224" bullets, I would try 8 grains Unique to start and not go higher than 12 grains. The reason for using a fast powder like that would be to smack the undersize bullet sharply on its butt to bump it up to full groove diameter as quickly as possible, to lessen gas cutting past the bullet which will hasten throat erosion. Savage ain't making those barrels anymore. The slowest powders I would try for making loads of 2000fps with a .224 bullet would be 4198, Reloader-7, or something of that ilk. You would have to consult an old loading manual for a good idea of such starting loads. (If the manual doesn't have .22HP data, .219 Zipper data is a pretty safe bet for starting points.)

4895 is always a good choice for concocting mid-range loads as even Hodgdon considers it perfectly safe down to 60% of max loads. But, I don't think it delivers that smart quick spanking to the base of the bullet.

Of course, if you lucked into some 45 grain Sisk .228's, your possibilities are a little more varied. With them I would go straight to the Reloader-7 or 4198.

Thinking some more about it, I would be remiss if I didn't tout the use of cast bullets for mid-range (lower velocity) shooting in the .22HP (or anything else for that matter). At the 2000fps level they'll perform every bit as well as a jacketed bullet, cost a lot less, and save the throats of our beloved 100 year old Savages. Don't have the means/inclination/time to cast any? Contact Dan the Bullet Man on Gunbroker- he can fix you up with a variety of good cast .228 bullets.

I haven't ordered them yet but Buffalo Arms has the .228 45gr SP, I was going to wait until I could find a load to try before ordering. Unique and the same amount for the .228 45gr?

What weight cast from Dan the bullet man do you recommend and loading?

Thanks!!!

As i mentioned earlier the 65gr cast bullets from Dan shoot excellent. Loaded with 7gr of Unique. 20 rounds in a half dollar size group at 50yrds. Never chronoed though.

Joe

Picture from triple deuce

I didn't see any listed on GB so I contacted The Bull Shop.

BTW, nice shooting!

Thanks. You wont be disappointed.

Joe

Hey,
Great topic. My load is 70gr. Hornady SP with 20.5gr. Reloader#7 for mid velocity, or just lest than factory specs. I haven’t clocked it but suspect 2600fps.
I am learning from the talk here as I had not considered shooting .224 diameter bullets, let alone 45gr. Bullets.
I love casting and shooting alloy bullets and have been successful with 218Bee hard cast gas checks bullets lubed with alox/beeswax to over 2200fps for accuracy. I have also found that these bullets require a near perfect bore and seating depth to rifling to avoid bbl. leading and accuracy loss.
While I reserve high velocity for my modern 22cal. Rifles, I really want to hear what is being done with these light weight undersized bullets in the older Savage High Power rifles, as this is new to me.

Tomygun1

Easy to do, but the standard .22HP sizing die might well hinder the exercise. You might want to remove the decapping pin/expander ball and simply rely on the sized neck diameter provided by the "naked" die body. (That also entails separate decapping.) At the very least a .224 expander ball needs to be substituted for the .228 expander ball. Otherwise the .224 bullet will be a loose fit in the case neck. I tried to load .224's in brass sized normally in my Redding die and the bullet could be pushed right through the neck with thumb pressure.

That's all based on the proposition that shooting .224's in a HP is a good thing. Several schools of thought. My thought is I don't want all that hot gas blowing past the bullet and hastening throat erosion. It all depends on how much .22HP you shoot. A lot of .224 use can't help but injure 100 year old barrels that Savage doesn't make anymore. Just my opinion, based on my historic shooting of an obscene amount of .22HP. Probably not an issue for the "once a year" kind of shooter.

The two critical dimensions for cast bullets in the HP (and any other rifle for that matter) are diameter and length. Length for obvious stabilization needs in a given rate of twist (for the old Savage 1-12" ROT bullet length of .750" is the magic number, weight has nothing to do with it). Diameter is a little trickier. The old protocol of using the groove diameter of a barrel to determine cast bullet diameter has been disproved time and again over the last 40 years. What is far more important is sizing to throat diameter. In my three .22HP tubes, throat diameters are all over the map- two at .229 and one at .230. Shooting .228 diameter cast bullets gives "ok" accuracy- an inch or so at 50 yards (much like Joe's target shown above). Sizing them to fit the throats shrinks group size by nearly a half. (That means not sizing them and merely lubing them in a couple instances, as-cast as it were.) To sum up: ignore groove diameter, but determine throat diameter.

Another critical aspect of cast bullets is hardness. I know this is counter intuitive but relatively soft (bhn10-12) alloys give better accuracy in all the .22's I shoot, not just .22HP, at velocities a little past the 2000fps mark- with zero leading. Again it all boils down to fitting the bullet to the throat- you don't want hot gasses blasting past the bullet and melting lead off their sides before they have a chance to get moving well and expanding to seal the bore.

As for seating depth, the rifle tells me what it likes. One gun wants its bullets jammed into the leade, others want their bullets to get a little bit of a running start. Probably has something to do with the condition of the leades and throats (and the leade angles as cut when the barrel was made) but I don't have a borescope to confirm or deny. Condition of bore is important, but not critical within bounds. Fortunately all my HP tubes have pristine bores so it's a non-issue for me, but anecdotally I have a 5.6x35R kiplauf with what I would call 60-70% bore that shoots cast with astonishing accuracy (ask Joe Martin, he's shot it).

Buffalo arms also make 55 and 60gr .228 bullets, I use the 55gr in my Brno combo gun and they are very accurate,

For a .228" 45gr sp, what powder would you think the best bet, REL-7 or the 4198? What charge would you start with? I have read if you use too little it can cause high pressure and I do not have a clue of a safe starting load for the .228" 45gr sp.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want a couple of good loads and not have a small fortune in powder and gear when I do not plan on loading a lot and as of now only for the 22HP.

RL-7 and 4198 are the historic champions for loads of that nature in medium sized cases- but your gonna get over 2000fps on the low end. I would try 20 grains RL-7 and go from there, but it would undoubtedly put you well over the 2000fps threshold. Not much data exists for light bullets in the HP with modern powders. I just now consulted my old copy of Sharpe's handloading tome and all the 45 grain loads he lists are for Lightning, Hi-Vel #2 and 3 and Sharpshooter. He does list a load of 10gr. 2400 for 2000fps. Landis says nothing at all about light loads in the HP. Old Lyman manuals have a few listings- one in front of me lists 17.4 grains 4895 for 2000 fps, but with a 60 grain bullet, and 13 grains 4227 for 1950fps but with a 60 grain bullet also.

Too darn bad SR-4759 was discontinued. All of my mid-range and low-vel loads with the HP were concocted with that powder and Unique. (I can continue to do so because I hoarded enough 4759 to easily get me through my Golden years.)

All the loads for the .219 Zipper (nigh ballistic twin to the HP) in my old manuals and reference books start at 2500fps minimum, for the 45 grain, and go up to well over 3000fps, and do it with 3031, 4895, 4320, etc.

Whatever you do, I would strongly suggest doing your load development with a chronograph and tread lightly. For example if 20 grains RL-7 gives you 2400-2500 fps with a 70 grainer you know you're ok but without much room to go higher. Because of the much lighter weight of the 45 grain bullet you're determined to use such a charge would surely be ok then. Follow?

Can you access QuickLoads for a case capacity/powder charge/bullet weight comparison?

You're entering uncharted territory, and while the risks are minimal IMO, they do exist. Why not stick with 60-70 grain bullets to start with, for which lots of data exists? In all honesty I would get a can of Unique which I know for a fact is a-ok for loads in the mid-teens to 2000fps with all bullet weights both jacketed and cast.

Thinking some more, and going back and re-reading the earlier posts, I get the impression that Mr. MP44 is new to handloading. Am I correct? If so, I would strongly advise him to stick with powder and bullet combos that are known to be safe, and get his feet wet with them before venturing into the world of "seat-of-the-pants" loading.

Yes, a self admitted newbie(1st post ). All I want is an equivalent factory load and a known mild load, which is why I was interested in the 228 45gr Thanks for all your help and suggestions!

In that case, I would strongly recommend the 60-70 grain Buffalo (or Reed's) .228 + 23-25 grains 3031 or 4895 for a "regular" load. Kick the same bullet down the tube with 10 grains Unique for a mild load.

Welcome to the world of .22HP loading!

Thanks, that is simple enough for even me to follow :-)

OAL? I have been loading to 2.47", as that is what some old Canadian 70gr sp measured

Great knowledge and info, and while this thread still has the attention of .22HP handloaders let me also ask where folks are getting their brass these days. Mine are RWS and are spendy. I make other chamberings from 30WCF and I know the same can be done for 22HP. The Handloaders Manual Of Cartridge Conversions says that a three forming die set and process and fireforming is needed. It would seem to me that one sizing through a 25-35 sizing die (That’s how I make 25-35 cases), followed by a trip through the 22HP sizing die, trim, neck ream, and fireforming would accomplish the same without very expensive die sets. Is anyone doing this or are cases cheaper now?

Pushing .25-35 brass in one pass through a .22HP die is so easy that I can't imagine why anybody would make their brass any other way. .30-30 brass certainly can be used too, but assuredly not as easily. An intermediate forming step with another die set needs to be done- most any die in between .30-30 and .22HP can be used, just be sure to go slow and incrementally and use lube sparingly.

I have a stash of RWS brass too that I treat like the Crown Jewels.

S&B brass works well and loaded ammo is cheap enough to shoot just for the brass.

I size my 30-30 brass first. Then run them in the 25-35 die then through the 22hp. Works fine. Like gary said use lube sparingly. I have a bunch of factory 22 hp brass and a couple hundred of formed brass.

Joe

Thanks for all the help!!

Since I have a 25-35 now, I don't want to use it. But, I never did anyway. One of the local ranges lets you scrounge the brass buckets, 2-3 weeks before deer season they are full of 30-30. Then I gave a friend 15-20 pounds of mono type for casting, and he gave me several hundred 30-30 cases. We do basically the same as Joe, but add a die. It sounds like a lot of steps, but only took about an hour to form 60 rounds. We run the 30-30 through a 250 die, then the 25-35 die, then the HP die. We were having a problem with the first die ripping the case necks off. Took the expander ball out of the 250 and 25 dies, then we never lost another neck. They passed Gary's approval, and I took a nice 8 point buck with my 1899 H last year.

You mean like just regular handloading? Nah, too simple!

For what it's worth, jacketed .228" dia bullets are available:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/228-diameter-55-grain-jacketed-bullets-box-of-100-bac22855

They have 45, 55, and 60 grain soft points avail. I bought some 55 grainers. Haven't loaded any yet, so no target results to show.

Oh crud, I just read more of the posts, and realized that I'm late to the party with my info on the .228" jacketed bullets from Buffalo Arms. Ah well.

Fun little old cartridge!

Regards, Guy

Oh, and a big "thanks" to gnoahhh - he seems to pop in on every 22 Hi Power reloading thread, with some good info.

Regards, Guy

I went down the .22HP rabbit hole a long time ago, and almost became obsessed with it. I'm back now, and breathing normally again!!

i do have a question in all my old Hornady Reloading books every book has printed 22 Savage Hi-Power [.227 Dia.] not .228 including all my old bullet boxes say .227 not .228. Maybe Mule Deer needs or could clarify the proper size for this post on 22 Savage Hi-Power bullet size ? Pete53

You might be back, but, you still ain't right!

Did somebody post a 22HP double on GB a year or two back. That's what I want.

forum " ask the gun writers " i asked this question about the bullet dia. .227 or .228 on a Savage 99 22 Hi-Power to Mule Deer and he posted a very good interesting answer. its a must read if you own a Savage 99 in a 22 HI-Power and reload !

I sat down this evening and mic'ed a selection of what I have on hand:

1) Old 40's (?) vintage Sisk semi-pointed- 63 grains .227", 70 grains .228"
2) 20's-30's vintage Winchester Repeating Arms, 70 grain .228" (I tore the shrinkwrap off and broke the seal on a "collector's" box of 50 bullets to find out. Guess I have to shoot them now instead of putting them back on the display shelf.)
3) 40's(?) vintage box of Sisk spitzers 70 grain marked ".228 Ackley", .228"
4) Norma, recent manufacture, 71 grain 5.6mm (.228), .2275"
5) Reed's .228 60 grain, .228"
6) Hornady 70 grain spire point, .227"
7) Speer 70 grain semi-spitzer .227"
8) RWS H-Mantel 70 grain, .2275"
9) 40's-vintage Sisk semi-spitzer 45 grain, .227"
10) Buffalo Arms 60 grain, .2275"

Conclusions? None, what can I say?

I have three tubes with throat diameters as indicated in an early post in this thread: two with .229 throats and .227 and .228 groove diameters respectively, and one with a .230 throat and .228 groove diameter. The "big one" also has a long throat but I suspect it was scorched that way by some wise guy along the way shooting a boat load of .224's through it, but that's conjecture on my part and besides it still shoots lights out especially with "fat" cast bullets.