This is my 303 load:
Powder- IMR 4895 33 grs
Primer- WLR
Bullet- Ballistic 30/30 cal. (.308)
Case trimmed to 2.015
Total length 2.520
I have reloaded in the past for many different rifles and pistols. This is the first time I've loaded for my 3O3 Savage. I'm experiencing some problems that I hope you can help me solve. Is this 303 case to be "crimped or uncrimped" around the bullet? I have been able to,easily, pull this bullet out of the case on the final procedure and the bullet has even stuck in the dies inner seater plug. I have re-read my RCBS pamphlet over and over.
Using the above components, is this considered a "compressed" load? ( there just seems to be a lot of powder in the case when I'm ready to insert the bullet). I can't decide if my problem is in the initial stage of full length resizing/decapping or the final stage of bullet seating. This could possibly be a "phone discussion" to help me understand my problems, so feel free to call me. 406-542-9242. Thanks and I sure appreciate you help.
WhipseY

You should be able to use 30-30 load data. If you want 303 Savage data, I and others can provide some. First off, which bullet are you using? You didn't say. Second, you shouldn't have to crimp bullets for a 99.

Something is off in the resizing process. The bullet should never be that loose in the case. Double check the expander on your resizing die. Maybe it's for the .303 British?

I use 33 grains of 4895 with 150 grain .30-30 bullets and have never noticed that it acted like a compressed charge.

Bullet is Ballistic Silvertip

My green RCBS case says FL die set 303 SAV

Something is not adding up. If the neck is sized correctly and the neck thickness is correct, you should not have the loose neck tension you are experiencing. Are you using new brass? Ditto what Lightfoot said.

Yeah, sounding like it's a .311 expander and not working with a .308 bullet.

The SAAMI spec for the 303 Savage IS for a .311 bullet, so...

Well, my brand new set of .308 dies had a .243 expander so they do make mistakes. Put a micrometer or caliper on it to be sure.

I have taken apart my resizing die and taken out the expander ball. On my calipers it reads .395. The brass is new

Yep. I made two trips to RCBS years ago with a set 303 dies before they realized they had installed an expander ball made for the 303 British.

I believe the standard expander ball diameter for a .308 bullet is .307. If you have a typo and meant .305, I would think you should have adequate neck tension unless 1) you have a bad batch of brass with thin necks, or 2) you loaded the new brass and did not run it through the sizer, perhaps it needs to be run through the sizer.

I would swap out the expander ball from a set of 06 dies (or any other 308 die you may have) and see what happens. It would be a cheap experiment that may help isolate the problem.

The sizing die could be wrong. Might run a case through without the expander and see what inside neck measurement is. The first set of RCBS dies I bought 50 plus years ago had that problem. No errors since.

Thanks everyone for your information. Tomorrow I will call RCBS on their customer service line and explain what's going on and see what their reply is. I think I'll just box up the set of DIES and send it to them for their review. On a better note, I just got my 3O3 back from the gunsmith yesterday. It was damaged in shipment and he did a great job of repair. I can hardly wait to go to the range,but now, I probably will be sent back a few weeks until I get this reloading thing figured out. But it sure is fun to sit in my den and HOLD this 1899. Merry Christmas and happy new year to all of you. I'll let you know how things develop.
Whipsey

ding, Ding DING! .395" expander ball is not right

Indeed. that expander's for a .303 British.

if the .395 isn't a typo that is the problem. if it is .305 then i would check your bullets. i have had mis-packed bullets before.

JeffG and Gnoahhh, op typed .395 as the dia of the expander. No way .395 would be for a 303 Brit. That .395 has to be a typo, a bad measurement, or a reallly big expander ... I would think a .308 bullet would drop right into the case and rest on top the powder if the expander is .395.

.395 would be about right for .303 Brit and its .311-.312 bullet. When selecting an expander ball for my odd ball cast bullets I try for one that's .001-.002" smaller than bullet diameter, ie: .309 for .310. (Depending on throat diameter in the various old .30 caliber rifles I own my bullets range from .308 to .312 for any given rifle. Cast bullets require minimal neck tension to prevent the case neck itself from re-sizing carefully selected diameters of the relatively soft lead bullets. As long as the bullet can't be pressed farther into the case with thumb pressure it's good to go.) Where do I get these expanders? RCBS and Lyman both make special separate expander dies for cast bullet shooting, said dies' expander plugs also put tiny bells on the case mouths to ease insertion of soft lead bullets and separate expander balls can be had for them in an almost infinite range of diameters. Not, by the way, to be used in lieu of a regular sizing die- they represent a separate operation.

OP- if I were in your shoes I would cease and desist trying to resolve your issue via RCBS customer service. I would just go to your favorite online reloading purveyor and order up a regular old expander for .30-06, .308, .30-30, etc. for what amounts to pocket change. Reloading companies are as guilty of throwing red tape and dumb customer service reps at us as any other corporations are.

One trick I learned from John Barsness is to de-cap a case first, separate from the sizing die, and run the expander ball waaaaay up in the die body so that the neck is still supported inside the neck portion of the die as the expander ball starts to make contact with the inside of the neck, as the case is being withdrawn. Keep the die stem a little loose too so it's free floating. This goes a long way toward providing you with straight brass which in turn yields improved accuracy. Better than a rigid expander ball screeching back up through a case neck when it's totally unsupported in any way.

What am I missing? .395” is 0.085” wider than .310”.

When I encountered the problem I mentioned a couple days ago I had jacketed bullets falling straight through the case neck. Did you try swapping out the expander ball in your 303 resizing die with a ball from another set of 30-cal dies like I suggested?

I read it as .3095. .395 wouldn't have even passed into the unsized neck.

Math isn't anyone's strong suit here for sure!

75% of us think we're above average

I know there are 25 shots in a fifth of Sailor Jerry! One to eight swallows in a 12 oz. bottle of beer, depending on how dehydrated I am.

Does that mean 25% of us know we are below average?

I can see clearly now...

Nope! The other 25% KNOW they are above average!

My daughter found out my nick name in college was "Shotgun" and thought it was because I liked to hunt. Then some old friends were over and she found out it was really because that's how I drank beer, one swallow per 12 ounce can. Was instantly elevated to Dorm Legend.

Hello all,
Just a short Sunday comment on how things are progressing with my 303 reloading. I have good news and bad news. The good news is, RCBS sent me a new expander ball that fits my 303 savage full length resizing die. The old one, that I was trying to use, was for the 303 British. Just as many of you had surmised. So my new cases are full length resized and ready for powder and bullets. Now for the bad news! My first attempt was to use Barnes TSX .308 150gr bullet. They were too long and crushed my case ( that was the reason I was questioning a "compressed load".) Next I used my new ballistic silvertip .308 150gr. Bullet. With the Seater plug unscrewed to the very top it still crushed the tip of my bullet when I tried to seat it. ( I am trying to reach the total loaded length of 2.510 of my completed shell.)
So, I have contacted RCBS and asked them if I can just send my entire die package back to them for their review. I'm questioning whether the Seater die is also for The 303 British. ??
I'm going to the range tomorrow to shoot three or four of my original 3O3 Savage "silvertip" shells. I just can't wait any longer to fire this rifle. I'll keep you posted as things develop. Merry Christmas and happy new year to all of you and your families, and thanks for your help.
WhipseY

RCBS may be a bit challenged when it comes to the 303 Savage but they are pretty top shelf when it comes to customer service. I’d be interested in knowing how your theory plays out as there is a significant difference in case shape and size between the 303 Savage and Brit. Best of luck.

Thanks for the Christmas wishes and a Merry Christmas to you too. I hunted my 303 F yesterday and the end results were good, but everything in the middle was a bit wonky. I had a nice buck walk out at the very far edge of the field. My friends farm I hunted has a 300 yard range in that field. Their son got into High Power when he was in high school, and that was where he had his 300 yard range set up. He later got into 1000 yard shooting and that range had the trap under the stand I hunted too. So the distances aren't guesses. My 1927 F was sighted in at 100 yards with Winchester 190 gr Silver tips. In the excitement of being the last few minutes of daylight on the last day of the season, I aimed dead on at the far edge of the field. Needles to say the bullet probably hit about half way to the deer. I fired 3 shots and the deer ran closer each time. The fourth shot was right about 100 yards and was dead on. Just remember if you try those 190's they drop a lot. Good luck with your other problems. When you get them ironed out I think you will really like the 303. I sure like mine.

For my 1899B .303 rifles I'm using 180 grain round nose Hornady Interlocks and 26 grains of IMR 3031 powder. I wanted to keep the bullet weight up to near what Savage originally designed the .303 around. As you're well aware, it's tough to find a newer bullet profile that keeps you inside the MOAL.

Yeah, the 303 Savage (like the 30-30) is going to have problems with overall length when used with a spitzer bullet. By the time you push the bullet in far enough to make the overall length work with an 1899 magazine, you've lost a lot of room for powder.

A 125gr probably works fine. For heavier 150/170/180/190 grain bullets, find a flat or round nosed bullet.

Thanks Calhoun, NEW bullets for sale--- Barnes .308 TSX, 49total (one is stuck in my case). $25. Email me, [email protected]. Sorry. 150 gr
WhispY

I'd start with a proven 30-30 load with round nose bullets, or find yourself a 50-year old Lyman reloading manual. I'm not so sure a spitzer is really going to buy you much in this class of cartridge. Again, best of luck.

Hi that 303 f has a 20 in barrel right? I had problems with factory loads I loaded a hornady 150 gr with a 30-30 load and the result was dramaticly different.. the heavier bullets didn't expand

" My first attempt was to use Barnes TSX .308 150gr bullet. They were too long and crushed my case ..."

Are you crimping the bullet? Not sure why you would crush the case unless you are crimping and then trying to set the bullet deeper.

I’d also try some lead bullets. It’s been years, but my 303 F loved them.

Speer's Hot Cor 150 grain flat nose with IMR 3031 seated to an OAL of 2.520" has work real well for me in my 303 Savages.

That's the combo I use mostly. Sometimes go with 4895.

I'm a 190 grain man. Pushed by 28 gr. 3031.

The newest Hodgdon Reloading Manual, 2020, has a descent article on loading for the 303 Savage. Lists 7 or 8 different powders. Lever evolution seems to be the authors favorite.
In the same article is something interesting. Have seen this discussion here on at least a couple occasions.” According to Nesbit, the early 30 Savage rifles were, in fact, 303 Savages, and all 30-30s made by Savage are always correctly marked. He indicates that no 30-30 was ever marked 30 Savage.

Eric

For the first 5 or 6 months they were offered, they were stamped 30 SAV. He's mistaken.

Is there evidence that any 30 SAV marked gun was a .303?

Why would they mark 1895's 303 then switch to calling the 1899's Sav 30?

Nope, though some people resist believing it.

Throughout the appearance of the 30 SAV stamped guns were also guns stamped 303. I've got a really rough 1899B with 28" barrel in that range that's stamped 303.


Even worse.. under Nesbitt's take:
1) 1895's were called 303's
2) the first 1899's were called 303's
3) then 1899's were called both 303's and 30 SAV simultaneously for half a year
4) then the 30 SAV nomenclature for 303's stopped at exactly the time that 30-30's were introduced

Now his idea is fine.. it's good for us not to take things as gospel and to keep an open mind. But this one I think we've laid to rest.

So, who's on first?

The SAV 30 rifles had a barrel address saying "CAL. 30". The 303's have a barrel address saying "CAL. 303"

Here is SN 18.738 in 303. Roy just bought a SAV 30 off of gunbroker that's 16.6xx and shows the CAL. 30 stamp beautifully, but I can't link it from here.

I have a very beat up SRC, ser # 20.8xx marked “Cal. 30” in the barrel address, not Sav. 30 or 30-30. Am I correct in assuming this is a 30-30?

Sorry, I didn’t mean to hijack the OPs thread.

Thanks,
Eric

Nothing stamped in front of the receiver?

I type to slow. Thanks Calhoun.

Eric

No, nothing.

That one's a good question. The 30-30's always had something extra stamped in front of the barrel, so I would tend to guess it's a 303 Savage.

But 303's were stamped CAL. 303.

So, did they just miss putting the extra stamp in front of the receiver? Or did they use the wrong stamp on the barrel address?

Here's 31.xxx, which is what I would expect yours to look like if it was 30-30 because yours falls just barely higher than the first 30-30 stamps we see. But.. I think you'd need to do a barrel cast to be sure. Unless somebody else knows something I don't?

Here are pics of the markings on 15.002

You can still see the original listing here: https://www.gunsamerica.com/977518314/SAVAGE-MODEL-1899B-30-30-MADE-IN-1900.htm

Yep, but his rifle is 400 serial numbers higher than the first 30-30 stamps.

But, always have to remember that guns weren't finished in serial number order either. His gun might have been finished before SN 20.409.

So... a 30-30 without a SAV 30 or 30-30 stamp, or a mis-stamped 303 Savage?

Just loaded 2 photos in the image gallery of the barrel.

Eric

It is a 30-30. 303 Savage is about a half inch from chambering.

Eric

Yeah, looking at the picture I bet they left off the 30-30 stamp since it's an SRC with the sight way back. They hadn't stamped them on the sides of the barrel yet. On any other model the rear sight would have been farther forward leaving a lot more room.

Rick does have info on carbines with the SAV 30 stamp though. Interesting gun!

I have three 1899-F's, SAV-30 marked, in my data and all people who reported them have not been on the Forum in years. Was hoping I could get info as to where the SAV 30 marking was located.

Had one come through here 2 months ago, and he was going to try to load pictures but never did.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/14221656/1899f-saddle-ring-questions

WhipseY here!
Finally got everything straightened out. Yes, the resizing ball was for the 303 British. (fixed) thanks to RCBS! The bullet seating problem was ME. SUCKS TO GET OLD AND FORGETFUL... i'm embarrassed to tell you what I did so you'll just have to guess. Had fun at the range yesterday. Shot 10 rounds at 100 yards and hit my 18 x 18 target three times. Not even close to a 6 inch Bullseye. Came home to clean my rifle and found that my rear buckhorn sight was elevated two notches. Loaded 10 rounds this morning and went back out this afternoon. Much better. (MOVED TO 50 YARDS AND WORE MY GLASSES) Just have to shoot more and learn where to aim that old buckhorn. Thanks again,
WhipseY