Is it possible to identify what cartridge a carrier is for? I want to find one for a .250, for a rifle I have that won't cycle correctly but a lot of the ones I find for sale don't say what they're for. I'm out of things to try on this gun and about the last thing I can think of is swapping out the carrier with one I know is correct, without having to take apart another gun to do it.

I don't know of any foolproof way to ID the various carriers except for some of the obvious ones like a .38-55 or the handfull of ones that are stamped. The .303, 22HP and .30-30 stand out but are hard to tell from one another. When you get to the .300 and .250 you can match a cartridge case to the body of the carrier and check for fit. Once the Winchester cartridges came along it got even muddier.

Are there other things about the gun that make you doubt if the carrier is correct?

Nothing else makes me think the carrier is wrong other than it not feeding how it should. It does work with 4 rounds in the magazine but even then it doesn't feel right. I've adjusted the the rotor in every position with no luck. At lower tension the cases feel like they are loose, for lack of a better explanation, but it might be there just isn't enough tension to push them up ( it's kind of a PITA to get them out again at lower tensions ). Higher tensions they are hard to insert and I can't even get 4 in. The .250 round seem to fit the rotor okay when I have it out but I'm not really sure how to tell if they fit correctly. If I had to wager, it seems like they do fit. I took your suggestion about checking if the carrier is hitting on something when it gets past the 4th cartridge and it doesn't seem to be. Basically I'm running out of ideas. I've adjusted rotor tension on other 99s and they feed fine so I'm really puzzled as to what the issue is.

What is the SN range?

201,xxx. Not sure why I shouldn't include the last 3 but everyone says not to.

I have a 243E that would not feed. I adjusted and finally replaced the rotor, still wouldn't feed. I changed the cartridge guide and it was like magic. It feeds great.

Mike

I'm assuming you are referring to the rotary magazine, and not the cartridge guide, comparison to the desired cartridge is your best bet and only conclusive ID. Here is a visual comparison of other rotors, g(L)ifted from another member,


...blind test














...some of the answers!

Doesn't really look exactly like any of those, 300 maybe?

WTH is that filed out where the screw holds the rotor in place? That's gunna be a problem!

Didn't notice that... Just looked again and one of them is larger than the rest.

There's one on GB that looks similar to one of the .250s in the photo that JeffG posted but all cartridges are not represented. I'm not sure if I want to gamble $68 on it being the correct one.


Edit: looks like numrich has one.

damnesia, you don't need the rotor, you just need the cap. Call Lightfoot and see if he's got a part for you.

I doubt the filed spindle head slot is the culprit. That's 1 of 4 so just make sure the screw engages one of the 3 good ones. I have replacements on hand.

I don't have the .250 carrier or I'd send you one. Numrich might have one. At least with them you can return it without too much hassle. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/969650

I remember those pics but neglected to copy them. Are those Gene's?

Mike doesn't that look like the right rotor to you? I bet the cartridge guide is wonky.

Yes, it looks like a .250 alright. The cartridge slot in the first and second pics looks a little odd but I think it's just the angle of the pic.

You know what, I looked again, and I wonder if that isn't a 243 rotor?

*nix that, wrong font on the numbers, it's an old one. Gotta be a 250.

Here's some I have marked, not sure if this helps or not.

Roy, wouldn't be easier to store your rifles assembled?

Do we know if the oversized notch is the one that was being use?

If you rotate to the next, in either direction, how much will it effect the feed?

I'm not a parts guy, but seem to remember that the stem screw/bolt has left hand threads...?

The left hand threads are just on the spindle lock nut.

That's it. Thanks.

I never thought of that!

I didn't think mine looked like the .250s in the picture. The tabs are different and the cavity where where the cartridge lays looks more diagonal. So I ordered one from Numrich before I went to bed last night. Looks like all you guys think I had the correct one in the gun. Oh well, maybe the new one will help. I've adjusted them on other 99s just fine. I've tried to adjust this particular one probably close to 100 times over the last year and can't get it to feed right.

One thing I haven't messed with is taking them apart. Is it pretty straight forward, only the threads are left handed? Could someone have taken it apart and didn't assemble it correctly? I was so happy the way the refinish and other repairs turned out on this rifle, but beyond that it's done nothing but piss me off.

Probably the right rotor , spindle head likley no good, carrier spindle spring may have come disingaged or broken . I think the 4 notches are indexed with individual bullets in conjunction with the rotor stop and the oversized one is too loose for feeding. Reverse threads on the spindle nut to see the spring.

I thought of that but forgot to mention it. I've seen that one before, especially with the older style assemblies.

The 4 notches on the spindle head allow 1/4 turn adjustment of the spring tension. The spindle head screw holds it stationary when installed.

Numrich has cartridge guides to. I ordered a new carrier spindle assembly and the cartridge guide in hopes that one or both will fix it. The guide in the rifle looks like the pictures I've seen of a .250 but maybe it's [bleep] up or something. I've found ordering from Numrich is crap shoot but hopefully I'll end up with what I was after.

If the carrier spindle spring was not engaged or was broken, wouldn't it not work at all?

Thanks for all of the input guys, I really appreciate it. This has been stuck in my craw for about a year now and I really need to resolve the issue for the sake of what little sanity I have left.

If the spring s not properly engaged inside the rotor it can bind. How it engages depends on the type of rotor. That assembly underwent about 3 stages of evolution. I've never seen a broken spring but I guess that little tip could break off which would bring erratic results too.

Hope Numrich really has the right parts. Your experience with them mirrors mine so I hate to recommend them.

damnesia,

Don't be skeerd! You can do it!

I recently won an 1895 at auction pretty cheap. I think mostly because with the action open, the rotor would not turn. At all. Upon disassembly, I found the tip of the rotor spring not only was not engaged, but was also badly bent. Also, the rotor was completely fouled with verdigris (not sure that's the right word. Green goo with the consistency of Play-dough). Completely disassembled the whole action, gently cleaned everything, bent the spring more like it is supposed to be and viola!

Do you experts really think that slot that has been modified will cause a problem? I don't see how. Please explain.

Thinks,

Doug

The enlarged slot is 1 of 4. You only use 1 at a time. If not engaged it is not a problem. Even if it was used I don't think it would have much ill effect.

I got all obsessive again with this thing last night. The rotor doesn't hit the guide until the "blade" contacts it after rotating 5 positions with with no cases in it. I also adjusted the tension to every position up until it was obviously too tight and too loose. Same results as always. I can get it to where 2 shells can be inserted and feel correct, then the third one has a little trouble and the 4th has a lot of trouble. I can never get the 5th shell even close to going in no matter the spring tension. After this happens I back the tension off one slot and the same thing happens. I back the tension off until the cartilages won't cycle at all due to low or no tension ( this is a total PITA to get them out at this point ). It feels like something is jamming. Probably good to mention that these are factory silver tips loads, but the identical thing happens with hand loads. One thing I want to confirm is correct, is when looking at the carrier spindle front, the slotted nut you adjust it with, I can see the tip of the spring next to the nut, is that correct? Also, the round counter works appropriately for the number or rounds in the magazine.

That doesn't sound right at all. Have you had the carrier assembly apart? I'd like to see pics of the individual parts.

I haven't had it apart, I've been reluctant to do it. I'll give it a go later tonight and post pictures. I'm sure one of you fellas will answer any question about getting back together.

I've read these are left handed threads which makes sense. However I haven't seen anything about the slotted nut being staked but mine is definitely is. Am I correct in thinking this should not be staked?

damnesia, for what it's worth, my 52 EG mine is staked also. What I don't know is when it was. I'm pretty sure it was taken apart and worked on somewhere over the years.

Jeff G. Looks like my old pics, I lost all of them when my host went tit's up.

To me the rotor looks like a 250 rotor he has.

Yes, that lock nut is staked on and left handed. The more you reveal about the problem the more I think your problem is inside the rotor. You need to get it apart to diagnose.

I tried to get this thing apart for about 1.5 hours last night. It doesn't want to come apart. Going to try again today.

tal35, if you go to photobucket you might still be able salvage them. GeneB can help.

If anyone has tal35's parts photos we can put them back in the Misc Good Info section.

This thing will not come apart. I even put the steel end between two piece of wood in a vise and broke the blade off the screwdriver I was using to try to remove the nut. I even got brave and had ground the staked area down. It didn't loosen even 1 mm. I sure hope Numrich comes through because the spring is [bleep] up for sure now. If the one from Numerich works out, my guess is that it won't have the old style script/font on it. If I can get the new one apart, I will cut the end off the threaded steel rod on the old one and see if I can swap the brass. I don't think this much trouble is normal or I would have seen it mentioned in some of the threads, am I wrong about this?

left hand thread

Yep, righty loosey, lefty tighty. Starting to wonder if what I thought was a stake was actually a tack.

Can you post a pic of the front of the spindle head where the spring is visible?

At this point you might as well put a vise grip on that nut.

It's in about the 2 o'clock position. Seems to be made of spring steel so I think, and hope at this point, it's the end of a spring or I made the problem worse by Bubbaing things up

I don't know if this will be of any help, but this is the exertior view of the rotor on my 1916 Model 1899 250-3000

Thanks that does help. The nut on mine didn't look like that before I started messing with it, it didn't extend to the end of the threads and was flat.

damnesia, I would like to nominate you to the Tinkerbell Club. One of the most frustrating places you will ever be. Can I get an Amen?!

Amen!

haha. It ranks right up there with my other super frustrating obsession, the restoration of old International Harvester vehicles. Although I've manged to scale down to only five of them, plus a Farmall.

Try turning the nut the normal way , in case the spindle was home made with normal threads and therefore needed staking. … or visualy verify by what you can see of the exposed threads , that in fact it is left hand.



For positive screw removal, sandwich the rotor vertically between two screw driver blades chucked up and down in a locked drill press, then turn the chuck with your fist. Use a little oil.

Try to salvage the brass carrier and the spindle and the nut because you may need them.

I finally got it. I ended up cutting a piece of leather from a boot, wrapped it around the small end of the threaded steel rod ( rough side down ) and held it with a pair of vise grips. I had to make another slotted screw driver and finally got it The spring looks like a hardware spring that has been monkeyed with. On the cap you can see a small hole that has been drilled that the long straight part of the spring slides through ( the end of the spring I could see ). I doubt the small hole drilled in the cap was done at the factory, it was still rough, still had the metal that the bit pushed out when it was drilled. The spring looks like a modified, hardware store return spring. However, never having seen an original spring for the carrier I'm not sure.

Thank you. That is a good idea but I didn't see it until I got it apart.

The spring looks original but it has been twisted out of shape.

If you want replacement parts I can see what I have to match,

Thank you. If you don't mind, that would be great if get the chance. I was expecting the spring to be a little more stiff, this one's kind of floppy like a small screen door spring. Am I at least correct about the hole in the cap not being original?

I'll have to investigate the hole in the cap. As I said earlier there is an evolution of parts for this assembly. From Keiths pic I'm not sure which it is.

I hate to put it to you this way but they don't make them like they used to.

The spring ( I believe ) is ok and the hole in the cap factory.

The right hand end of the spring went through the ( spindle carrier head) cap and the monkeyed up end went down into the (bottom) tail of the brass carrier. Gaze down into the carrier interior and see at it's bottom where that end of the spring is stopped up from spinning. Mine is probably worn but it is a tiny channel into which the end of the spring enters when it is spun against the the tension of the cap.

All this said, you should rely on Lightfoot because he knows more about this than I do. Additionaly, there are some Photobucket pictures that may help but they are not up yet.

I checked my 99A .30-30 245xxx, 1923, and the cap has a hole in it with the end of the spring sticking through it.

That hole is necessary to hold the spring.

I didn't recall seeing them on the other's I've messed with. Turns out, I just wasn't paying attention

There is only 1 of the 3 or 4 variations where the spring tip is visible through the spindle head. The rest don't go all the way through like that.

Where is the video showing how this is done🤓

I received the carrier assembly from Numrich, installed it and the gun cycles as it should. I also ordered a spring to hopefully fix the original, mainly because I want the correct script for the numbers. It should be here Monday if not delayed by the recent winter storm.

Thanks for the followup.

Does the new one have the spring stcking through the spindle head?

No it has a slot cut down the side. If that doesn't make sense I can take a picture.

I got a new spring, bolt and nut to try to repair the original spindle. Looks like the correct spring and nut. The screw/bolt/whatever it's called is identical except there are about 1/8" more threads on it. I'll probably cut the extra threads off but for now it shouldn't cause any issue. I put everything together and I still have the original issue. I can simulate the adjustment and action of it in my hand with no binding. Tried it with the spring installed both ways. The carrier turns all the way when installed in the gun until the 5 shows through the counter hole. I'm pretty much out of ideas but would really like to figure out what is going on but I'm out of ideas. besides the brass rotor, nut and spindle screw are those the only parts or am I missing something? I've looked inside the brass rotor and don't see a place to hold the end of the spring but just putting it in there seems to work.

You've got to see where both ends of the spring get stopped so when you spin the cap against the brass carrier there is increasing tension and all is s smooth.

If the spring anchor, at one end is slipping when you increase the tension then that is the problem.

The parts are ; the brass carrier, the carrier spindle nut, the carrier spindle, the carrier spindle spring and the carrier spindle cap.

Don't cut any parts up or bend the spring until you figure out how it works.

What he said.

I've seen the most problems with getting the end of the spring inside the rotor into the right slot. It is possible the inside of your original rotor has a problem and is not holding the spring in a fixed location. Your original spring showed signs of slipping inside the rotor.

I found the hole inside of the rotor that holds the spring. It was full of cruft, so I cleaned it out and the spring inserts now. Still starts to jam up on the 4th shell ( although it will go in and cycle ) and will not accept a 5th. Nothing on the rotor seems messed up. It spins all the way around with no shells in it, but if I put even one shell in it stops rotating at the same spot. I even made sure it's not catching on the pins from the stop or anything like that. Then I put the used rotor from Numrich in, and things work fine. I'm thinking that if I can't find someone who knows more than I do to check the rotor out, I'm going to have to live with the used rotor from Numrich, at least for now. This is incredibly frustrating.

The rotor may be binding on the receiver walls. Look for shiny wear spots on the rotor. I've had that happen.