Hello, i was hoping somebody could help me fix a tang sight problem. I have a savage 1899 that was built in 1899. It has what i beleive is the original tang sight on it as it has no markings. The problem is the knurled nut that moves the stem up and down is a little loose on its bushing and moves up and down causing the elevation to change sometimes. You guys have been great in the past when i had a question and i want to thank you all for your advice. Cherryfarmer

A picture is worth a thousand words. ??

Are you sure it is not marked?
Have you removed it?
Underside marking?

There should probably be a lock ring beneath the knurled nut. ??

I would love to post pics but just can't figure it out, maybe my wife can figure it out. No markings anywhere on the sight, i had to takeit off when i removed the stock and no markings underneith either.

Ps, no locking nut, just the knurled nut. I called a guy who fixes the sights and he said to throw it away and buy a new one but i hate to do that.

He was hoping to go through your garbage!

Maybe so, afterwards he said he would give me 75.00 for the sight if I traded it in, he seemed honest and sincere but i would like to keep it.

I bet!

Had to replace one of mine on a 99t rifle. The two main types were Marbles and Lyman From what I have seen, the Marbles sights had the locking nut and the Lyman did not. Also, The Lymans have a little lever on the side for the fold down feature and the Marbles have a small pull tab at rear of sight that you pull out to fold down. .
Mine was a Lyman and the up/down stem was stripped, traded it in for another . Most all the ones I have seen had a makers stamp on them. The Marbles sights have it marked on the lower side in very small letters, sometimes hard to see. Does the person who is giving you the trade in have the exact replacement one you need ? It maybe worth it if it is the same type that you need. Check out EBay, they usually have a few listed on there.

Yes it folds forward and back. There is no locking lever just a strong detent that holds the sight upright. The stem and knurled nut are tight to each other and work good together. The knurled nut is on a bushing type thing and it's gotten loose over time and wants to move up and down. I read some where that the first year savage tang sites from lyman were not marked at all so i would like to keep it because I believe it came with the rifle. The one he wants me to trade for is a later sight. Any help with how to tighten it up would be appreciated. Thanks

Yes it folds forward and back. There is no locking lever just a strong detent that holds the sight upright. The stem and knurled nut are tight to each other and work good together. The knurled nut is on a bushing type thing and it's gotten loose over time and wants to move up and down. I read some where that the first year savage tang sites from lyman were not marked at all so i would like to keep it because I believe it came with the rifle. The one he wants me to trade for is a later sight. Any help with how to tighten it up would be appreciated. Thanks

Sounds like a very early Lyman, probably a rare model and would be hard to replace. I understand why you want to keep it with the gun. Maybe the adjustment stem has wore out over the years. Problem is most of the sight dealers dont want to repair them, they just want you to trade in for another.

Sorry i posted twice. Yes it has the small flip down apature inside the sight the flips down and no locking lever.

cherryfarmer, you can delete the duplicate post by using the edit function...

I had this posted farther up and deleted it and reposted here -

It sounds like it's No 18 or No 19 (screw in disk), those were two cataloged in the first few years, so it could be original. These were almost certainly made by Lyman but are unmarked.

Does it look like any of the ones pictured here? - 24hourcampfire.com/4828663/1 The first on the left is a No 18 (small flip down inner aperture), next is a No 19. I have never tightened one of these but I see no reason they can't be, it would probably require some special fixturing. These sight are crimped together and you would have to tighten the crimp.

If it is a No 18 I can get you some pictures of how they are constructed that might help.

Thanks gene, that would be great. If I can't tighten it I will sight it in and maybe put a peice of tape on it to hold it, it only moves about 25 thosandths

Here are some pictures showing how many of the Lyman sights are held together, the elevation nut has a flange on the bottom which is held in by a ring that is crimped in place. I think what is happening is the stem get bottomed out and then the adjusting nut is turned more which loosens the crimp. Some Lyman's came with small pins in the bottom of the stem that were to be cut to size as a stop for the low setting, with these they will bottom out and still appear like they should adjust lower.

To tighten this you will have to tap around the crimp, support in in a way so you are not putting any force on the hinge screws and use brass or another soft metal. Don't over do it because it still has to turn. (PS, warning, I have not actually done this!)



The old patent shows a square section ring, the rings in the later sights I have seen are triangular. I had a sight with the threads on the post stripped out that I made into a cut-away.



Here's one that was taken apart by prying the crimp open on one end, notice that it also was pried out to open it, that is another thing to look for -


The probable reason they never made a loop spring type sight for the 1899's is due to the limited stem length..

These short Lyman's hinge on the ends of screws, this allows for longer stems in short sights, similar to their sights for the Remington pump rifles and the Winchester 61 . The looped spring type limits the length of the stem and would not be practical in short sights.



The locking type have a relief hole in the hinge on the shorter versions so they allow a longer stem length than the loop spring type can and for the 1899's they have longer bases setting them back so they can be made taller over all.

Gene is awesome!

Great information on Lyman sights. I copied it for future reference, thanks for posting that.

Thanks Gene, great pics and information on the old lyman sight. I am going to study the pics real closely before I attempt the fix. Thanks again!

I found a loose post in my parts, I decided to test my idea on how to tighten these, it worked a little different that I had thought. Most the play was taken care of by tapping on both side of the slot to flatten out the flaring.

Here's are pictures with extras included that address some of what was mentioned in the previous post.


I used this crude fixturing and tapped down on both sides of the slot to remove the flaring, this reduced the play to about 0.005".


I couldn't get on the angled crimp very well with the brass so I used a screw driver, I only hit it near the slot. This took the play out, it still turns smooth but is tighter in one spot. It left very little marking but I think I should make a special contoured punch to do this.


It's sad to see some of the modification people have done to sights. I've repaired a few, but it's not really worth it in most cases based on the time involved.

Gene, Not just tang sights either.

Thanks for trying the fix gene, looks like it worked well. Maybe tmi but i had to go 3 hours today for a biopsy, kinda sick right now. My sight doesn't have the split in the back or front. I will try to get some pictures to you guys this weekend, show you what I've got.

Cherryfamers gun is early and the sight also is early and different than any No 18's I remember seeing, but I often didn't look close enough that I would see these differences.

Here are a couple pictures comparing his to another of the type I'm familiar with, his has much smoother contours -




This sight appears to be held together with a single pin that appears to have split the metal which could be the reason it's loose, I made a sketch of how I think it's constructed, none of the pictures I had in the posts above would apply to this sight. It looks there has to be a groove in the elevation nut and it's held together by the single pin.

Thanks gene I can see the split now with all your enhancements. Thanks again for all your help and expertise.

Gene,

I have several examples of 18's with the pin like cherryfarmer's. There are no splits. I've never noticed that pin until you pointed it out! I could feel it, but had to use a bright light and magnification to see it! A good reason to play with toys on a snowy Monday morning.

Doug

Hello All,
I have an old Marble’s W1 sight that I need a couple pieces to fix and wonder if someone knows a source to get replacement? This sight is on my Great Grandfather’s Winchester model 1902 .22 Cal rifle and would love to get in back in action.

I need a new center bushing that the sight post pivots on as mine is damaged and worn.
I also need the outer locknut which goes at the end of the center screw.

Thanks in advance for any help!

Rich

If you don’t find what you’re looking for here, try eBay. May have to buy the whole sight to get the parts you need to get your Grandfather’s Winchester back in action.

Thanks for the advice Poconojack.
I have looked there a couple times which resulted from a Google search. I see a lot of those end up around $100 bucks so keeping that option as a last resort.
Thank you again though as all feedback is greatly appreciated.