I have been trying to find out how to get a factory letter on what I believe is a Victor grade 303.Can anyone pass on the new contact information to get a letter?Thanks,

Check in "Misc. Good Info" above.
It's in there.

Thanks,I will send them a note and see what happens.

I believe the cost is now $65, checks payable to Savage Arms.

The letter on my 99K came yesterday. They sent my check back with the letter. No explanation of why they returned the check.

Didn't it take them months to process? Sounds like a goodwill gesture.

Was the letter generic or informative? As is JTC informative.

That was the payment for the book you were supposed to send them!

Let's hear more about the OP's Victor Grade. And WELCOME to the forum gunrunner49!

I talked to Ron Coburn this morning. He said they would return the check if you asked a question they couldn't answer. I asked if the unusual (for a 250-3000) 24 " barrel showed up in the ledger. The historian left me a message on my cell phone about 10 days ago saying the letter would go and that they didn't find anything about the 24" barrel. The lack of that info is why they didn't cash my check.

Glad to hear Ron's still around. What's he think of the new Savage Arms since they split from Vista?

All he said was he isn't involved with Savage much any more.
Here is a photo of the letter on my 99K. It's reminiscent of JTC's letters. I like the photo of the Utica plant at the top of the letter. I sent the request in late October. Got the letter yesterday. They must have spent all that time trying to find out about the 24" barrel.

It was possibly engraved by Tue. The engraving was probably done in 1926. I don't think Gough was engraving Savages that early.

Of course it is reminiscent of JTC. It is the format he always used with a tweek here and a tweek there.

Perfect, so everyone that sends a letter ask the historian how to tell the difference from a 1899H and the early 99F and everyone will get their check back.

I was wondering when someone would say something like that. They will probably catch on pretty quick.

Tue's death occurred in June 1927 so a ship date of March 1927 is cutting it close. Shame the warehouse date was not included.
As you mention, the rifle was possibly produced in 1926.
The circumstances of Tue's death are unknown although an obituary said "...after a long illness".

In 1926 Gough was at Fox in Philadelphia and is well known to have done much contract work from there.
Records and opinions believe Gough engraved a 22HP #133xxx/1913 and a pistol #226xxx/1920.

Gough did this Colt in 1933 which would have been from Utica.
You'd have to use optics and lay examples side by side and "maybe" could make judgement.
But even experts have difficulty using the inspection method on unsigned guns and generally rely on anecdotal information to narrow it down. (which we have done)
A person could also go down the Tuft's Lyon Firearms Co. rabbit hole and see if anything turns up. They were in L.A., sold to Hollywood. ?? hmmm...

99k left side engraving. Shipped 3-31-1927. What do you guys think EnocTue or someone else?

I don"t know about Tue, but your engraving is definitely different than my October 1931 K. Sorry, I'm not good with photos on this site. On mine the engraving extends all the way to the edge of the screw on the right and extends below the screw on the left. While the general appearance of the engraving is the same there are quite a few details that are different.

Jeff.
Gun is listed on Armslist, you can see it their. GW

The one I think is a Victor is not on Armslist by me.I have it on gunsinternational.I based my guess as to what the grade was based on photos in the Murray book.If anyone can help me determine the grade,feel free to share your thoughts.I am still in the learning process on engraved 99s.I will post some photos as soon as I figure out how to.

The center design of Wyo1895's "K" looks more like the earlier "A" and less like the later "K" pattern. As for the question of who's hand left the marks...? I can't say.

If it shipped in March 1927, it's either Enoch or somebody that worked directly under him. Enoch didn't pass away until June, 1927.

All Tue, I'd think.

The 99K first shows up on the January 1927 pricelist, which does not list a separate 99K engraving or checkering. It lists the old engraving styles A-F, and the A2/A3/A5/B/C checkering styles.

On the January 1928 pricelist, the engraving and checkering is limited to a 99K style engraving, and A2/A3/A5 checkering. The 99K checkering is the A-5 checkering.

I would guess that Tue was just doing to do an A engraving plus - the plus being a it extra on barrel. Under Gough, it slowly changed and wasn't as "artful" later on as Tue's.

That's entirely possible.
One of the things that we really don't understand is exactly when Tue last engraved. But could have been 1926/27.
Even more of mystery is understanding journeymen and apprentice engravers who may have had a hand in the action. Tue's nephew William H. was still in town and had engraved, so,..
And finally, to what degree Savage utilized contract or offsite engravers and who they were.
Plus, Gough had a shop in Utica (~1930) with up to 20 engravers at one time.
All of these variables likely explains some of the variation we notice among 99K's.
I find the search for these answers interesting, but it really doesn't affect the rifles at all.

Engraving styles A-F available from when the year that Enoch Tue was hired and up through the last year he was alive, and then they disappear?

I'm going to believe he was engraving up into 1927, until something pops up to indicate somebody else had taken over.

Here are better quality photos of the 1927 and 1928 99K engraving.
1927 99K 250-3000 right side

1928 99K 300 right side

1927 left side

1928 right side

There is quite a bit of difference in the engraving.

Suit yourself.
I look forward to the supporting data.

As we know, Savage Catalogs and City Trade Directories may have some timing lag between print and reality. But are the best indicators we have for now.
I got this from Jed. He went down this rabbit hole years ago. His data is based upon Utica City Directories.
If Tue was engraving into 1927 I would expect it to appear in the 1927 directory. And if the City Directory is not caught up I would expect it to appear as a carry over from 1926. Just say'in...

David, could you pull up a "A" engraved (Tue) pic from your book and show the same side(s) as your 1927 99K for comparison?
It may help to confirm Tue's hand.
Rory and I can still debate the 1926, 1927 cutoff date.

That 1927 directory is probably printed on info gathered after June. It'd have to be, since she wasn't a widow until June. So it doesn't show that he didn't engrave the first half of the year, but it probably shows that he was engraving late in 1926.

The "A" engraving photo in David's book is the wrong photo. It is actually K engraving. So, he will have to access an "A" engraving photo from elsewhere - a Julia auction catalog, perhaps.

An A engraved from Maine, followed by David's K.

It just amazes me how Tue (or anyone) could engrave what appears to be identical.

Back to David's 1928 99K.
Tue was gone. Fox hadn't been purchased yet. Who did 1928 & 1929??

Yes the editor of I screwed up on the photo of the "A" engraved rifle in the first printing. I changed to this photo of the "A" engraved rifle in the second printing of my book.
All I have is a photo of the left side.

David's 99K was shipped March, 1927 (at least the one he started this thread on). Which is why I say it's almost surely Enoch Tue's work.

Confirmation of who did 99K's from mid-1927 through 1929 hasn't been found, though the common belief is that Savage contracted with Gough to do it. Easy enough to ship a few receivers/barrels to Connecticut from Utica. It might be that it was an apprentice of Tue's or something else, I don't know of any firm evidence one way or the other. No other name has ever surfaced though.

Another 1899 A engraved.

I think it is impossible to do precisely the same engraving each time. I have observed some variation in a number of engraved Savages.
My 1927 rifle has more detail in the center circle and the swirls that branch off the center circle. The two "A' engraved 1899's have this additional work. I would also like to know who did the 1928 and 29 "K"s.
Pages 72 and 73 of my book show my 1928 rifle's engraving, plus serial #356363 (1936) and a 1930 vintage "K". The 1928 rifle and the other two are similar and quite a bit different than the 1927 K.

My mistake rifle is listed on Guns International! I am on medication and older than dirt. GW

Tue had a CNC Lazer Engraver in his basement that no one knew about when he died. It took another 75 years before someone else invented the lazer engraver again. Just saying....

I meant the 1928 99k in David's post, 2nd pic. (we can still pick the 1926/27 Tue bone later)
This engraving reaches farther N,S,E & W.
Clearly a new guy. ??
Wouldn't surprise me if 28/29 were from Gough's shop in Fox/Philadelphia.

Well....yeah.
Variations in "design" are different than variations in "technique".
Variations in design may be the base design with more or less detail work. We've seen them.
Variation in technique (different hand) may be subtle difference in size, shape, depth, etc.
But I agree, no two are exactly the same.

Exactly, The design was changed by the time 1928 "K" was produced and continued at least until 1936. Probably Gough all the way.