DATING THE YEAR OF MANUFACTURE ON SAVAGE .22 PUMP RIFLES...

Can anyone out there advise as to how one can date the actual year of manufacture of Savage .22 pump action rifles? Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! Jack

Jack51,
 
 There is very little published info on Savage .22's (what model?) and no list of production dates that I know of. I will offer two suggestions:
 
 1) Send a letter to the Savage Historian. There are some records available for the earlier .22's as there are for the 1899/99's.
 
 Mr. John T. Callahan, Savage Arms Historian
 53 Old Quarry Road
 Westfield, MA 01085
 $20.00 per gun research fee.
 Send serial number, allow 3-4 weeks for delivery.
 
 2) Ruff a date from the quantity produced divided by the years of production. This might be VERY ruff not knowing where the numbering began or if ranges were skipped.
 
 Rick....

Thanks!!! One is a model 29A & another one is a model 25... Jack

The Blue Book lists production of the 1925 as 1925-1932 with the quanitiy at 36,000. I don't know where they got the quanitity. The last few years might have just been selling down inventory.
 
 Most of the 29A's have round barrels and were made after WWII. There were a few made before the war that have the oct. bl. Serial number start after the war in the 40,000 through the 50,000's then alpha code only. What is yours?
 
 Rick....

Hi, Rick-
 
 My 29-A does, indeed have a round barrel. The serial # is 503XX-L (What's the L stand for?)... My model 25 is serial #258XX... Any thoughts? (I'm still looking for a model 14/pump/tube fed + a model 29/pump/tube fed, with an octagonal barrel, in nice condition, & reasonably priced, if anyone out there can help)
 
 What's the difference between a model 29-A & a model 29-B?
 
 Thanks, Rick! ...Jack

Jack,
 
 1) I would guess your 29-A at around 1950
 2) The 29 receiver was used on Savage, Stevens and house brand rifles. The L = Savage
 3) I don't think Savage made the 25 and the 29 at the same time, so if the 29 was late coming out there might have been 5 years production...so may be 1927or 28 (?)
 4) There is very little variation in the 1914 or the 25. The early 29's had groved forearms and oct. brl. while the later pre-war rifles went to the checkered butt and forearm and oct. brl.. These rifles would be pre-4x,xxx serial. The later pre-war style seems to be very hard to locate. I'm still looking for one.
 5) 29-B, last version made, is grooved for a tip-off mount.
 
 Rick....

Thanks, Rick!!! So, what would be your guess as to when my model 25 was made? Did savage make a .22/pump action/tube fed/octagon barrel model prior to the model 1914?
 
 Here's an odd story I might have previously mentioned: Back in the mid 1980's, when I was living in Indiana, I walked into a "Mom & Pop" general store, in the middle of nowhere, & in the back of the store (A store that looked right out of the 1930's, I might add), "Pop" had a whole wall of various weapons; mainly rifles. My eyes immediately spotted a little .22 pump rifle (At that time I wasn't much informed about Savage rifles). I asked him if it was for sale, & he said sure; give me $100.00 for it. I am not, nor was I then, "monied" enough to just say sure & pull out the cash... Regardless, I was lucky enough that he accepted credit cards, so I stuck my neck out & bought it with "plastic." As I mentioned, @ the time, I knew very little about Savages. Anyway, the rifle had a '03 pat. date on the barrel (octogan), pump action, & tube fed. It had a VERY CRESCENT buttplate on it, with the Savage Indian logo stamped on it. At the time, I thought the rifle was originally made that way, but since, people tell me Savage made no such .22 pump/tube fed with a heavy crescent buttplate (!). This rifle was in great condition, & you never had to aim it: just point & shoot. It shot 1/2" groups @ well over 60' w/o aiming it. Sadly, I foolishly (had to) sold it about 10 years ago & have missed it ever since!
 
 Any thoughts on this?
 
 Thanks for all your great help! ...Jack

Jack, I have been collecting pump 22s for several years now, mostly Savage's, and there is one thing that I have learned. Once you think you have all the styles and model variations figured out something else pops up. I have never seen a Savage pump with a tube mag with a heavy cresent butt plate. The 1903 was made from 03 to around 1921, the 1914 was made from 1914 to 1924. The 1914 can be thought of as a 1903 that was converted to mag tube. I have 3 styles of stocks on 03's. The first had a longer pistol grip and the lower tang on the frame was straight. the second is the most common. and the third looks like a 1914 stock, and the frame is cut like the 1914. Now, in the good ole days gun makers did almost anything to please the customer, and yours may have been a special order, or it may have been added at a later date. Savage marked the butt plate the stock and the frame with the serial number, and that would have been the best way to determine if the stock was original. Roger

Thanks, Roger; I wish I knew then what I know now. I sure miss that rifle! Jack

Pact,
 
 Have you found a 1903 .22 short magazine yet? I have the L,LR but still looking for the other. Do you agree on the 29 with the later checkered stock being hard to fine? I'm collecting data on the 29's. I would sure be greatful for any info you might want to share. You can e-mail or post a note on the Forum.
 
 Rick....

RICK
 
 IN ANSWER TO THE 22 SHORT MAG. YES I HAVE ONE FOR THE 03 AND IT FITS 09,12. THE SIDE READS 22 SHORT. THE 1903'S LIFE WAS FROM 1903/1916 AND IN 1922 SAVAGE MADE A MODEL THAT LOOKED LIKE THE 1914 MODEL BUT HAD A MAG. THE STOCK IN BOTH GUNS SCREWS INTO THE FRAME THE SAME WAY. YES, SAVAGE HAD TWO TYPES OF STOCKS ON THE 03'S PLUS THE FANCY MODELS WITH ENGRAVING AND FANCY WOOD. WE CAN CHECK WITH ALL THE GUYS IN THE FORUM TO SEE HOW MANY ENGRAVED AND FANCY WOOD 1903'S
 THE GUYS HAVE?
 
 PHIL

Rick I have a 1903 short mag. In the early production era Savage provided two mags with each gun, one in short the other in LR&L. I wish I could help you on the 29s. Although I have a few I don't study them too much. My 03 with the 1914 stock the serial number is 1414xx. I also have a 1903 with a 43xx serial number that has different stock than the normal, the lower tang area is longer. I also have one serial#874xx that has a front pump handle like the 1914 (longer), but has the common stock. By the may anyone going to Tulsa in october? Roger

Anyone know when they stopped making the short mag.? My L&LR mag. does not have the 1908 patent but my S,L and LR mags do. Are there S,L & LR mags without the patent?
 
 Phil,
 The #57 catalog (1916) shows the 1903 with the 1914 style butt stock. I had not noticed and don't remember seeing one before. The more you look the more you find. The last 1903 I bought (91,xxx) has a thick hard rubber butt plate with the early Indian trade mark. Is the 1909 serialed in its own range or is it part of the 1903 serial?
 
 Do you think we should do a survey on the 1903's? Is anyone interested?
 
 Rick...

pact,
 
 The early rifle is longer and THINNER in the pistol grip. The one with the 1914 forearm seems out of place for that serial range. I wonder if it was reworked at a later date. Thanks for the serial range on the 1914 stocked rifle. I've yet to see one.
 
 I'm planning on going to Tulsa. I'll be there on Saturday. May be we could meet in the afternoon?
 
 Rick....

PACT
 
 THE 1903 WITH THE FOREARM LIKE THE 14 AND THE STOCK LIKE THE 14. IS THE 1903 MODEL MADE IN 1922.
 SAVAGE IS SAID TO HAVE MADE 1000 OF THIS MODEL? I NEED TO CHECK I HAVE THREE OR FOUR IN THIS FORM I WILL DUG THEM OUT AND CHECK SERIAL #'S .
 
 PHIL

RICK
 
 IN SAVAGE RECORDS THE 1903 YOU HAVE WITH THE RUBBER BUTT PLATE. IS THE SAVAGE MODEL 1903 ENGLISH PATTERN. OH YES, I NEED ONE IN THAT FORM.
 BOY I HOPE JACK51 IS READING ALL OF THIS INFOR?
 
 PHIL

Rick & Phil,
 
 My 1903 with the 14 type forearm looks all original. the
 slot for the slid rod cap is 10.5 inches from the receiver, normal 03s are 7.5. I found this gun when it was bought with hundreds of others from a gunsmith in Ms. It had numerous years of crud on it. The barrel has the Dec @5 1908 patent on it and it has the common 03 stock, all #s match. I have cataloge #24 1909 and the 1903 catalogue. The English Pattern with a shotgun butt with hard rubber plate is listed, $13.50. The 1909 cataloge indicated that 2 mags are shipped with each gun and they handle s/l/lr. In the 1903 catalogue there are drawings of the mags in which the center indentations that runs verically on the mags stops about 1/2inch from the bottom. My 22short and one other marked L&lr mag looks like this and they do not have the 1908 pat date. My other mags this indentation goes all the way to the bottom and all have the 1908 date. I have also noticed that some of the 1909's have an (A) prefix on the serial number. I am looking for a good 1909. (or a bad one)
 
 I am glad we are getting to talk about these pumps. Rick I will be working at Lee's Gun Parts tables. If any one needs parts let me know and I will bring. Email me at rogermcafee@msn.com

Phil, I sure am... It's great! Keep going!!! Jack

JACK51
 
 
 A LITTLE INFOR FOR YOU ON TWO 29'S I HAVE IN OCT BARREL.
 
 1) #3498L MODEL29-A ON BARREL, W/CHECKED WOOD, OCT BARREL.
 
 2) #7731 MODEL 29 ON BARREL, PLAIN WOOD, OCT BARREL.
 
 PHIL

PACT/RICK
 
 MAG MARKINGS ON THE 1903 1909 1912.
 
 1) 22 AUTOMATIC LR ONLY -2
 SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY
 PAT. APRIL 28 1908
 
 2) 22 S. L. & LR -6
 SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY
 PAT. APRIL 28 1908
 
 3) 22 S. L. & LR -5
 SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY
 UTICA, N.Y.
 
 4) 22 SHORT -1
 SAVAGE ARMS COMPANY
 UTICA, N.Y.

JACK51
 
 INFOR ON TWO 29'S FOR YOU OCT. BARREL.
 
 #7731 MODEL 29 0N BARREL & REC., PLAIN WOOD, OCT BARREL
 
 #3498L MODEL 29A ON BARREL & REC., CHECKED WOOD, OCT BARREL

SOME SERAIL NUMBERS
 1903'S
 
 1) 5238
 2) 7121 ACTION ONLY
 3) 11165
 4) 13519 W/LETTER WAS AT UTICA NY PLANT ON JULY
 19 1904 AND SHIPPED SEPT. 29 1904 PITTSBURGH, PA.
 5) 39483 ACTION ONLY
 6) 43960
 7) 44348
 8) 55120 ACTION ONLY
 9) 57042 ENGLISH MODEL, I DID HAVE ONE.
 10) 123008
 
 
 1903/1922'S
 
 1) 141375 RUBBER BUTT PLATE W/SVG IN CICRLE
 2) 144617
 BOTH HAVE STOCKS THAT SCREW UP THE PISTOL GRIP TO THE FRAME. BOTH HAVE LONG FOREARMS LIKE THE 14'S.
 
 1911'S
 
 1) 17140
 2) 38272
 
 1914'S
 
 1) 4257
 2) 46741
 
 1912'S
 
 1) 2462
 2) 4329
 3) 6054
 4) 9078
 
 1909
 
 1) 102953 A W/LETTER FROM THE FACTROY UTICA TO THE WAREHOUSE ON APRIL 8, 1910 AND SHIIPPED APRIL 9, 1910 TO ST. LOUIS.
 
 HOPE THIS WILL HELP IN THE SURVEYS. CAN GIVE ALL BARREL & REC. MARKINGS ON THE ABOVE RIFLE TOO IF NEEDED.

THANKS, PHIL!!! ...Jack

Phil, Again, GREAT information!!! Do you know much about model 25's? I have one in almost mint condition (tube fed/pump action/octagon barrel); ...a "takedown model." ...Thanks again- Jack

Jack, I have two 25's. I believe the were made between 1925 to 1929. In my opinion they are the poorest of all the Savage pumps. The extractor cuts on the barrel makes them weak (thin). I suggest that if you shoot them to only fire low velocity ammo. I sold one to a friend a few years ago and warned him numerous times about the ammo. He came back in a few weeks saying that it would not extract, then admitted to firing high velocity ammo. The chamber swelled. I have one that is marked Premier (wards) and the other is a Savage. I have seen them marked Ranger(sears), Tippens, and I believe Trailblazer(wards). The serial number on these house guns always have a suffix of L or K
 
 For the stats;
 
 1903, 95666 a mess but there, 12127x action only.
 1912, 260x and 877x
 1915, 4505x, 1230x, (245x & 53075 actions only)
 25, 3659
 
 Phil, on your 1903 with the 1914 stock, is the butt plate like that of a 1914. mine is missing. Thanks Roger

Hey, Phil or Rick. Do either of you own a Febiger or Bactavia Pump 22 Or semi. These guns are often mistaken for the 1903's. I have 2 Febigers. I know these are not Savage's so please don't kick me off the forum.
 
 Roger

Not I but I have seen the Febiger pump.
 
 Rick.....

Phil- Want to sell and/or trade that Savage 29-A - octagon barrel .22 pump? I think I already know the answer, but it never hurts to ask. ...Jack
 
 BTW- Is it not a good idea to ask to sell/buy on this forum? Some forums don't like it & I surely don't want to "stub my toe." Thanks to all...

Roger-
 
 I know about the weakness of the model 25's. If you compare the ports of the model 25 & the 29 models, you can see a great difference in size; plus the weakness, as you pointed out, on the 25's receivers. I RARELY fire my 25, and, as with ALL of the few (sigh) Savage .22 pump rifles I'm fortunate to have, I ONLY shoot standard velocity "target" ctgs. I use Remington's because they are readily available in this area, are cheap, & I've never had and real problems with these, even in the model 25 (Which, as you point out, can have a rather "fickel" action)... It accurate enough, but no model 29. I just like it because I think it's pretty. You guys know far more than I, but I'm wondering if Savage produced the model 25 as a "Gallery" rifle, ment to fire very low loads, such as CB or BB "caps??? (Hence the light receiver metal) ...That "odd-ball" '03 (Or maybe it was an '08; I forget) that had that heavy crescent buttplate, but was tube fed/pump action, rather than magazine fed was a perfect squarrel (sp?) rifle. Thanks again; I learn a lot from you fellows.!!! ...Jack

Rick-
 
 That '08/pump/magazine fed/ Savage .22 that I previously mentioned buying, (The one I returned because it was totally worn out; including the magazine), had an origional "short" (If by "short" you mean the magazine didn't extend beyond the trigger guard), & it was marked with the Savage address, etc. + "S/L/LR..." I never examined it very closely (Now, I wish I'd scanned it, to send you guys). The "feed plate" (Forgive my ignorance) & the rear body of the magazine was so worn out that it "kicked back" (unloaded), preventing the bolt from closing fully. As previously mentioned, I promised not to mention who this fellow is, until I got my refund (Just got an email saying it's being mailed out to me tomorrow), (Even then, I'll just give you his "handle," but won't post it on the forum), but when I get my refund, I'll clue you in. I will say this, @ this point; it came out of California & there's other Savage .22 rifles he has up on various auction sites. I don't think the fellow is dishonest. I just think he doesn't really know what he's selling. So far, he's been direct with me; I'll know he's "real" the day I get my refund. If I had seen the rifle in his shop, I'd have offered him $45.00, just for what few parts that are worthwhile. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to cause any trouble... As it stands, I lost over $60.00 in this transaction: $60.00 I could have best used elsewhere (Like food!). Hope you guys understand. Saw 5 deer, running across the road, today (Different times). It happens all the time. Hope I haven't bored anyone. ...Jack

PACT
 
 I WILL CHECK ON IT FOR YOU TONIGHT.
 
 PHIL

PACT
 
 NO ON THE RIFLES. BUT DAVE ( [email][email protected])[/email] HAS A COUPLE.
 
 PHIL

Phil,
 
 Same as #4 only "L & LR"
 
 Rick....

Jack, Thanks for the info on my model 1914, and for replying so quickly. Check out the website for the photos
Dale

Hey Jack.

I was reading over this old post and got to thinkin. Do you think this gun could have been a Meriden Model 15. The gun was designed by Savage and does have a heavy cresent but plate. just a thought. Roger