I have these 2 knives. One is cmp154 rc 60 and another is an Ingram S30v....I love both, but edge wise, which one would hold up longer on dressing deer? I'm just curious about your guys experiences.

it depends

My experience with 154 CM is in factory knives and a couple of Menefee customs. I have S30v blades from Ingram and it seems to me the Ingram s30v blades hold an edge noticeably longer than both.

Rick Menefee's 154CM does hold up better than the factory stuff but I believe his is heat treated to a higher hardness.

Godogs or MiRoadKill or Vince could probably chime in here. I believe CPM 154 and 154 CM are the same compositionally, but the CPM version produces a finer grain steel which reportedly holds an edge better and can be heat treated to higher RC and still be fairly tough. I think godogs uses CPM 154 quite a bit.

So does Dale Howe

I think,the S30V holds an edge a little better than CPM 154 ,but can be trickier to re sharpen. It does depend on HT ,Rc ,grind,etc. I'd rather a knife blade with decent edge holding,that's easier to touch up,than a knife with great edge holding that's a bitch to touch up. It's all preference.
If you own and buy custom knives,you really should know how to re sharpen when necessary. The Rc is generally higher on a custom, than a factory blade.

Custom hand made knife makers use certain steel because of the results they get. So if I like maker X's knives,and he says steel B is the stuff,generally I accept this.

I will take S30V but honestly all things equal it doesnt make all that much difference.

Unless you simply need the highest levels of corrosion protection, if you want the longest lasting edge just get a Dozier D2 model.

My experience is it remains head and shoulders above the two steels you are comparing. Of those two, S30V should last a little longer, but the results may be so subjective it is really difficult to see.

I think it depends on the heat treat. I wouldn't bet against your Ingram in s30v but I have a few in cpm154 that are great. It isn't much of a difference but I have noticed the cpm154 is a little easier to sharpen

Compositionally 154 steels are the same and frankly I only know of one circumstance where anyone can tell the difference and that doesn’t involve blades. Even in that case it may have been a while back and may have been batch variations more than the steels. Anyone who believes there is any distinguishable difference is only perceiving knife to knife variances. Personally I believe 154 is less chippy than S30v when hardened to the harder Rc levels. Both good and the tests show S30v holds an edge longer, but there are a lot of other factors besides how long a knife holds an edge. I much prefer 154 or Elmax.

Just for giggles n' grins



https://www.knivesshipfree.com/knife-knowledge/quickreference-guide-know-your-knife-steels/


I happen to like A2, but what do I know!


















I'd say go skin a half dozen critters with each and don't sharpen in between and I'll bet you can answer your own question!

ya!

GWB

CPM154 for me. I hate working with S30V, so I am biased. There are a number of makers that don't care for S30V...it's not just me. There have been problems noted with inconsistent heat treats from batch to batch....among other things.

The difference in 154CM and CPM154 is the process of making the steel...the "recipe" is the same. CPM stands for Crucible Particle Metallurgy. Here is what Crucible says about the process:

Although the steel is very homogeneous in the molten state, as it slowly solidifies in the molds, the alloying elements segregate resulting in a non-uniform as-cast microstructure.
The CPM process also begins with a homogeneous molten bath similar to conventional melting. Instead of being teemed into ingot molds, the molten metal is poured through a small nozzle where high pressure gas bursts the liquid stream into a spray of tiny spherical droplets. These rapidly solidify and collect as powder particles in the bottom of the atomization tower. The powder is relatively spherical in shape and uniform in composition as each particle is essentially a micro-ingot which has solidified so rapidly that segregation has been suppressed. The carbides which precipitate during solidification are extremely fine due to the rapid cooling and the small size of the powder particles. The fine carbide size of CPM steel endures throughout mill processing and remains fine in the finished bar.

CPM154, even though it is the same makup as 154CM, will produce a superior blade because of the process explained above. Carbides in blade steel are the measuring stick, so to speak, with blade steels, and fine carbides, more evenly distributed in the blade, is what you want...that's the ideal. That's what you get with the CPM process.

Here is what the CPM blade steel looks like under an electron microscope for comparison, notice the smaller carbides and more even distribution:



I have a post in this same Knives forum that shows why I love CPM-154. Check it out:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...54-blade-steel-in-my-knives#Post13207293

FWIW,

CPM 154 does seem to be the choice across the spectrum!

ya!

GWB

Yes...it’s more than likely the #1 choice for makers of stock removal, stainless knives. It’s a great steel

I would take the CPM S30V every time. Much of the S30V's reputation for chipping is due to the overheating of the edge with power equipment in production. A couple of sharpenings usuallly remove the suspect material.

David

+1

The other knife (the cpm 154) was made by Bret Dowells son. It's beautiful so I just wanted your guys input as to wether or not I should use it or keep it as a show piece. It has the blonde with gray wood grain handle... absolutely gorgeous

Typically you are not going to make money on the resale of a custom knife that you paid a retail price for, and IMHO, once used you tend to decrease the value to a collector. A custom knife is a functional work of art that is meant to be used.




Use it, clean it as soon as possible after use, don't put it in the dishwasher or let it soak in a pan of water. Dry it, then wipe the scales and blade with Ballistol or Kroil, or even mineral oil, then dry. After drying I store my knives in the sheath. They are stored in a low humidity, stable temperature environment so I do not worry about corrosion,



and my carbon steel knives are going to acquire a patina no matter what, sooner or later.




My vote is to use it!



even if you are just slicing veggies




or carving ribs!




or preparing a stogie.

I'd bet with a little imagination you could come up with all kinds of tasks for that work of art!

If not, and you choose to just admire it, then in reality it prolly don't make much difference whether it is CPM 154 or S30V, except maybe whether the finish is mirror or satin.

ya!

GWB

I like them both but I like S35Vn better than the S30V. Even though they are pretty much the same

Freaking great thread!
I agree with some of the above...

I’ve several of both, like both... very impressed with cpm154 godogs just built me...

Any more data points???

and isn't ATS34 and RWL34 much the same as the 154 steels?

There is not that much difference among many of the steels.
At least not as much actual difference as there are differences in opinions.

Again (in my opinion) mostly comes down to geometry, heat treat and sharpening method/ability.

Damn! I really like the look of those nessmuk skinning blades, G Dub. The dark wood and steel set are Ingram's?

i sure like the two CPM154 blades I recently picked up from godogs57, and so does my bud that I gifted one.

Yes,

IIRC, I told him what I had in mind and the steel and that I wanted a set of "working knives", that was his interpretation of a Nessmuk. I do believe he said he he had a set of desert Ironwood scales that were of a lengh to work. I'm a DI fan so that was good with me.

IMHO, he did a fine job!

ya!

GWB

I like that blade!! Any info on the maker? (I searched on "O'Neill", and found a Joe O'Neill in Lamar, CO, but didn't see any similar blades or contact info on his website).

Edit: Never mind, I found an email address for Joe O'Neill.



And, all else being equal (and it never is with knives), I'd chose S30 over CPM154 and 154CM.

Just wanted to add that I contacted Joe O'Neill, and he replied that the blade pictured in my previous post is not one of his designs. Joe directed me to a Jack O'Neill in Seaview, Washington, as the probable maker.

And, since we're talking knife steels, I just wanted to include that I would choose CPM S110V or Bohler M390 over S30V or S35V. Again, all else being equal, which never happens in the knife world. And, I would happily take any nice knife made from S30V or S35V, too.

https://knifeinformer.com/discovering-the-best-knife-steel/

I've got knives that I like in S110V and M390, but I think Elmax with the heat treat Bark River uses beats them both. Edge retention is as good, toughness is improved.

Hard to get as excited about any of the high end SS steels when CPM M4 is available. Holds an edge as well, awesome toughness, quick and easy to sharpen.

David

Interesting post, CPM154 is my preference due to ease of sharpening but have not tried that many S30V blades and am moving towards S35V instead.

Does anyone know the purpose of the high spine on the Nesmuck designed blade?

Geedubya your knife looks like a hybrid of the Nesmuck and a Bull nosed skinner good looking and useful too.