For those who are getting knives made with CPM M4 on this current run from me:

Please give some feed back on how the blade/edge performs, how you use the knife,
how you do a resharpen and how long the edge lasts, etc.........

This steel has 5.5% tungsten so that should have some effect on the performance.
These are heat treated to 63/64 Rc.
I have only gone up to 61 Rc before with CPM 154 and 59 Rc with all other steels previously.

Will be interesting to see how it works out for the users.

thanks
Tim

I cut up a trashcan full of cardboard into small pieces just to see what happened. It did get a little dull, but it took an ungodly amount of cutting to do it. I decided to move the edge to 20 degrees. That is not easy even with a 12x2.5 inch diamond stone. It is most assuredly hard and very tough. From what little I have done with it the steel looks like it will handle 20 degrees without blinking.

Are you saying the "trashcan full of cardboard" was with the edge as received? If so, what was it before you re-profiled to the 20*?

24 degrees according to Tim. What I cut up was my recycling bin which is 55 gallon size that was full of cardboard. I just emptied it out on the garage apron and started slicing as it went back into the bin. Prior to starting I had touched up the blade to be shaving sharp full length. When I got done, it would still cut hair, but not as well and not full length. It was still sharper than the knives the people I hunt with bring to deer camp (with one exception), and it would still work as well as when I started cutting cardboard for gutting, skinning and quartering deer.

In order to produce twice as much bevel as it came with on that diamond it took about 4 times the time and effort than my VG-10 blades. I actually spent less time and effort setting back the edge on a 6 1/2 inch VG-10 that I bought with a chip in the middle of it.

From my short experience with this steel I think it is an excellent candidate for those whose sharpening skills are "challenged". Take the knife to a professional to resharpem every couple of years and don't bother learning how to sharpen a knife. It also looks to be a great candidate for those commercial kitchens which regularly take a box full of knives to a sharpener. I would bet from what I have seen the edge will last at least twice as long as VG-10 which itself will outlast most kitchen blades by at least that much. It is for sure hard and it is for sure tough. For me to get a good handle on how much deer cutting and skinning this steel will do compared to VG-10 is going to take a couple-three years since what I found with my VG-10 hunting knife that I used exclusively it took nine deer before I felt like putting it back on a stone.

In sharpening the three 5" Skinners for Mannlicher, hunter13 and geedubya I have re set my Edge Pro to 21 degrees.
The blades are quite wide and started at about .110" thick blanks. So, I dropped down from the 24 degrees I normally do for
hunting knives down to 21 and am happy with the results.

The sharpened edge on this steel at 63/64 Rc does not feel the same to me as the other steels I have been using, but it does
push cut paper and shave hair with no problem. Still wondering if the 5.5% tungsten has something to do with this.

So, when you get them, use them and resharpen them, let us know what your doing and getting for results.

To sharpen I break the cutting edge with 120 grit belt on 1x42" grinder.
I then go to the Edge Pro.
I start there with 120 grit, then 220, then 600 and then to the leather strop.

Cut on.
Tim

Tim, what brand of stones do you use on the Edge Pro?

Thanks

I buy them from Edge Pro.
It is more important to me to have good and repeatable quality than to find cheap replacements.
I keep them clean using a mild soap in water and a toothbrush.
I keep them wet in use with the same soap and water.

I will occasionally re flatten them on a 4x36 belt sander to take out the dishing.
Tim

I am changing from the 24 degree setting on my Edge Pro for hunting and field knives to 21 degrees as a norm.

I will have all of this batch of CPM M4 knives all shipped by next week so.....Time to go fishing.

Tim, I have yet to sharpen the M4 skinner that I got from you last time. So far, just stropping is all it has needed. Two smallish deer last fall and some kitchen use.

That one was sharpened on my Edge Pro set at 24 degrees.
The 5" skinner you get will be thinner and wider blade and done at 21 degrees.

Yeah, I have been pleasantly surprised at how well and often you can freshen
an edge with a good leather strop.

They should all be cutting something by now.
Received some nice pms.
Reports shared on this thread are welcome and appreciated.

I have now put the CPMM4 knives for me personally together. Not totally finished or sharpened yet.
Now I suppose I will have to make room by liquidating some existing knives on the "waiting to be used" shelf.

Thanks All
Tim

I have started using mine like any old pocket knife and if something needs cutting I cut it with the M4 and on't even think about what I am cutting it on. So far it stands up to everything without needing sharpening, or even touch up. It's good enough that I have begun considering the next M4 blade.

I got two from Tim, a Loveless style and a B & T. I really like both knives. I gave the smaller away as a gift but have been using the other. I've skinned 3 calves and done a bunch of odd chores with it, also ran it through the dirt a bunch the other day cutting some morels I found. I like the steel so far but I will know much more after another 3-4 months. I stropped it a few times and it's still shaving sharp. So far so good.

Got my large skinner today. I found the grinds perfect, the knife very sharp, and the camel bone scales just perfect. I carved some dried oak I keep on hand, and it's like a scalpel. I love it. Doug did his usual fine job on the sheath. I get them without a belt loop, as I carry my dead animal processing knives in my pack.

Congress Tool Moldmaster stones far surpass the Edge Pro supplied stones and cost less as a bonus. Atoma diamond plates are cut to fit the Edge Pro by chefknivestogo and are the best for cutting the more challenging steels like S110V or 10V, but they are expensive. The Atoma 140 is the most amazing and useful stone I have tried. It will produce a hair popping edge. The moldmaster 80 grit is soft but low cost, just a few dollars. So I buy a stack and replace them when they are dished. For a man making knives out of M4, the Atomas are worth the cost.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/sear...x=0&y=0&vwcatalog=chefknivestogo


https://www.congresstools.com/catalog/categories/get-subcategory/?id=27

I have just started fooling around with my blade blank. I used 220 grit on a belt and then diamond stones to get a bevel at 20% and then India stones to 6000 grit. Then I back dragged it on some 2000 grit wet or dry to get a convex edge and stropped again. Scary sharp and it reminds me of the old Gerber M2 blades at 62 RC but improved. How much of an improvement will take some time to tell. Very impressed and now want a caper, trout and bird or a gentleman's model to go with the Loveless Semi Skinner.

I think the key is to get a polished edge and then do the sand paper thing to provide more of a toothy edge. I think if I strop regularly I will only need to hit the edge after multiple heads of game.

Thank you sir for a very fine blade.

I have a Benchmade M2 blade in the old AFCK folder. I have a custom M4 knife from Brett Dowell at 64.5 Rc. The factory Benchmade isn't remotely close to the Dowell M4. Not even in the same ballpark.

Atoma "Edge Pro" stones at $65 each.
Do they cut that much better and last 10-15 times longer??????

I personally have not found the love for diamond impregnated stones, but.........

MRK,
the Atomas cut noticeably better on the most challenging to sharpen steels such as 10V, S110V, or M390.
The Congress Tool Moldmaster stones cut far better than the stones supplied by Edge Pro.
The very coarsest stones of most any brand tend to wear fast.
chefknivestogo has a house brand similar to Atoma that is lower price and works well, so that is another option.
Different stones work best for different steels.
I use the Moldmaster stones as the default, and the Atomas for the harder to sharpen knives.

Great thread, appreciate everyone's input. Tim makes quality knives.

Another report of M4 performance
"Tim,
Skinned a couple more yearling cattle yesterday and the knife is still shaving sharp. Thanks again
zach"

So being of sound mind I been finishing some of the CPM M4 in knives for myself. I already have more "personal" knives
than I can use, but I am sooooo good to myself.

It seems that 21 degrees gives a very nice edge for all shapes and blade thickness. I go to 600 grit and then leather strop.
I need to do some more extensive cutting and whittling to see how the edge retention is, but seems really good at this point.

Anyone who got one of this batch that would like a resharpen by me, it will only cost you the shipping to get it to me.

Have any of you done a resharpen on one of these blades yet?????? If so????????

Thanks
Tim
PS: IFFF I could post pics here I would show my personal knives here.
I can send a pic by smart ass phone if someone wants to post it here.

I am still using mine at the steeper angle (more like 15 degrees) and it does not seem to be too much. The edge does not roll and the thing stays shaving sharp. I will start killing deer in two months now so pretty soon I will run the blade over the diamond stone again and then polish on a water stone and after that I will just use it on deer gutting, shinning, breaking down into quarters boning out the carcass (Ribs and neck) and then it will be used for boning out the quarters. Once that begins I do not expect to have much to report until it gets dull enough to need to see the diamond stone again. That looks to me like it will take several years at least from the use I have put it through over the summer so far. Nothing seems to bother it. My favorite VG-10 knife with nearly the same geometry took just over two years (nine deer). I intend to compare apples to apples so I will only use it on deer once I start the test. If you want a interim report before I come back at the "end" just email me.

Tim,

You made me the little 3.25" caper with thin green micarta handles and red liners in your second M4 run. It's pictured in the "What blade makers interest you most?" thread. I hadn't gotten the opportunity to use it until this evening. I skinned out a respectable whitetail buck (10 points and 165-170 pounds) with it down to the ears. Popped both front legs at the joint with it and down cut to the radial joint in the neck to get the head. I didn't sharpen it beyond what it was in the sheath before I started and when I was done it would still literally shave hair off my arm. Pulled a bit though. The blade is perfect for what I had it built for and I sincerely could not be happier with its performance.

It's an exceptional knife, and the second of your M4 knives I've had. Both out performed my expectations.

Thank you for making it for me.

Frank

Frank

Thanks for that report.

Seems to be a pretty good steel so far.

Thanks
Tim

Loaned the caper to a good friend that skinned out a mostly frozen 12 pointer with it over the weekend. Would also shave hair at the end of that along all points on the blade including the belly that does most of the cutting while skinning. Can't really ask for much more than that. Truly a great little knife.

And I think that one was at 24 degrees, but may have been 21.
Nice report.
Thanks
Tim

I have sent a couple dozen knives to 24 members in the last couple months after I switched to an
18 degree setting on my Edge Pro for final sharpening bevel.
I was doing mostly 21 degrees before.
Most were M4 and a couple other steels.

What is the report on the 18 degree edge??????
Works for you? Would be better if......... Or ?.......

I have not used that angle in field yet, but it sure cuts me easily.
Seems to do good on the whittling of beech and edge holding I have done.
I do not see a reason to use a more narrow angle, but a steeper angle seems better on some blades.

???????
Tim

Tim, I have two of your skinners in M4. How about I send one back to you and have the angle changed? I will foot the cost of course. That would give a good comparison

Sam
Sure. No cost other than your shipping.
Tim

FWIW I got a little paring / B&T from Tim in CPM M4 and thought it about perfect for deer too. It went through 4 this year and is still sharp enough to peel grapes.

Note: I just started putting the angle sharpened at on the back of the 3x5
card when I started doing 18 degrees.
Before that probably 21 degrees.

I have sharpened mine to 15 degrees and it has done two deer, gut, skin, disassemble and some of the boning out. The nose is actually a little steeper, probably 10 degrees. It remains shaving sharp and likely will not be used until next year.

I have very often sharpened knives of decent steel like this, and the only ones that I will not do this steep are the carbon steel blades that are much more prone to corrosion. Those knives, like the old Sabatier carbon blades will go dull just from cutting meat and washing them. I strongly suspect that it i because the very, very fine edge has a tendency to corrode rather than wear. IMO it would be a complete waste of time to put them on a water stone and polish the edge at 5-8 thousand grit. M4 it seems to me is well more than corrosion resistant enough to warrant it though. The patina on the blade has not changed since last fall.

Finally got to use the new skinner that Tim sent. Processed nearly an entire adult beef cow (skin, gut, quarter, trim) today. Washed the knife when I got home and it easily shaved hair. Couple passes on the strop and it was popping hair. Great knife and great design.

Good to hear. Thanks for the report.

A customer use update.


"First, I have been using the stiff filet knife more, and not just on fish. I have found it's a very good knife for deboning pork shoulders when I make sausage, and close enough for keeping at hand when I am grinding to make the chunks of pork and venison that do not fit into the grinder a little bit smaller. It filets jumbo (1 pound or so) perch nicely. I think were I still fishing Nipigon a lot it would be the knife I carried day in and day out for gutting and gilling big trout and fileting fish for camp meals.

Secon, I have got another deer done on the little M4 blade and it's still shaving sharp, so that makes three so far. I am planning on a minimum of three more deer this fall and maybe five more. I will keep track of it for you, but my suspicions are it will at least match the VG-10 blade I did nine with before I sharpened it. I do nothing to protect the blade, no oil or anything. and I leave it sitting in water for extended periods (like over night) and never has shown any sign of rust. I still has a slight patina to it so maybe that oxidation is protective? Crucible might could tell you about that, but I am not worried enough to take the time to ask. As far as I am concerned, the difference between it and the Japanese super steels is mainly that M4 seems to be a little "tougher" and that seems to make it a little harder to sharpen. That's a very, very small down side I suppose but for that to make any difference a person would have to be foolish enough to try sharpening that kind of steel without diamond stones. M4 does have a Very different feel to it when it comes to putting it on ceramic rods. I may still set the edge on it to 10 degrees when I get around to sharpening it again, something I would advise you to try because I think it will work and be a slicing sonofabitch. (isn't that what knives are for?) Make yourself a steak knife and see how long a 10 degree edge edge lasts when cutting meat on a ceramic plate. I can say for sure that a 15 degree edge with this M4 holds up. It has gutted, skinned, dismembered and stripped the meat off the carcass on three deer without needing sharpened so far."

Thanks for the report.
Tim

I see 24*, 21*, 15*, 10*...

How are you all measuring those???

18* now added...

Bill
I use and Edge Pro and I am satisfied that the settings marked on it are close enough for me.
From previous interactions with you, I know you of a more detailed mind set than most of us.
Your knowledge and testing is appreciated.

I do not really care how many rope cuts a knife will make, but when such info is shared, I look
at it and try to learn something form it. Such as a video you linked me to.

If the final bevel has a few micro variations, I can live with that. As long as my knife is sharp enough
to pop arm hair, causes me to bleed if I accidently touch the cutting edge and does multiple animals
in the field, I am a happy camper.

I have learned that my reloading protocol only needs to be moderately refined for hunting and I am
happy with a blade that performs very well for me in the field.

Your lab level of looking at blades is appreciated.
Not sure what others opinions/procedures are.
Tim