I read that somewhere - but had never heard it before, the source even mentioned that the 243 was the demise of the 257 Bob....

Huh

I'm going to guess no to your first posit and yes to the second. Having said that, I'm going to agree that you probably read that somewhere. No, it was not ever THE Premier deer round, but it did have a lot of initial interest. Yes, 243 WIN and 6mm REM stole its thunder.

.257 Rob was kind of like 30 WSM in its sales trajectory. It came out with a lot of hype. It DID and DOES have a lot going for it, but after the rush wore off, it settled into a life of mediocre sales. Writers moved on to the next big thing.

Just for grins, I looked up the .257 Roberts in my 1942 Outdoor Life Cyclopedia. While most of what is in this epic tome is complete balderdash, it does give you an idea of the zeitgeist of the time. Here's what it said:

". . . but for some reason the .257 [Roberts] has remained almost entirely a gun fan's rifle. Paradoxically, the majority of those who own this great all-round rifle have several others in the rack, and the men who need it haven't given it much consideration."

Jack O'Connor loved the round, and developed a bunch of loads for it. However, he lamented at some point around WWII that there was a lack of good bullets for it. Yes, they were out there, but they varied greatly in weight and this led to less accuracy. As we all know, Herr O'Connor became linked to the 270 Winchester and not the 257 Rob.

There was a period after WWII that saw a resurgence in interest in .257 Rob when folks brought back Japanese Arisakas and could not find ammo for them. They had the option of rechambering them for .257 Rob.


In case you're wondering, no I don't own a 257 Roberts. However, I was all ready to go out and buy one 25 years ago, and my gunwriter friend, Bob, talked me out of it. About 10 years ago, another friend of mine went blind and sold me his 25-06. I found that I could load it up with H4895 and get a very close appoximation to the 257 Rob. I hunted with it a few years and. . . like the article said, I find myself picking its neighbors on the rack when it comes time for deer season.

Was Premier for me for a few years.

Hell on whitetails with a 90 grain Sierra HPBT and a goodly dose of IMR-4064.

It is for me

For deer sized game, a Roberts and a 115 gr Ballistic Tip is all a person needs.

A box of Nosler premium 257+ brass and a set of RCBS dies on the shelf tells me I'm looking for another 257 Roberts - again.

I have one and it is a fine deer rifle/cartridge. Fills the gap between 223 and 270 nicely.

I have one, a 722 with a Lyman peep, I use on whitetails in 3rd growth conifers in western Montana, most shots under 75 yds. I use 100gr. Barnes and I've never needed a second shot.

i now have 6 - 257 Roberts and so will have one more Roberts soon, i purchased all of them with the thought when my grandkids and daughter deer hunt they can all have the same cartridge to hunt with, i also have 25 boxes of ammo loaded up for them in the future too. i have enough deer hunting land that is paid for that will be given to them all including my son and as i age i plan on using a 257 Roberts too and retire my magnums someday. > in Minnesota yes when i was a kid 257 Roberts was kinda a premier deer round,this cartridge has a unique name so as kids we all wanted a 257 Roberts ,maybe that`s why i guess i have to many 257 Roberts and you can bet many on the fire have 1 or 2 yet just in case.

I have one 257 Roberts. A Ruger Ultralight. Most of the deer I have killed with it, I killed with a 115 Partition. It puts them to sleep instantaneously. It's my favorite rifle. In my lifetime it has never been too popular. Is any manufacturer other than Kimber making them?

I probably won't make friends for this, but i find the 257 Roberts to be an adequate northern whitetail round. As a kid I was given the Outdoor Life Cylcopedia. I was young enough that I wrote my name in it in crayon. I believed the write up on the 257, that was definitely typewriter hunting, not real world. I bought my first one in 1972. I still have it and have killed a pickup load of deer with it. Ive owned and hunted several others. But it is not the same class as a 270 or the 308/06 or the over 30 crowd. If all things are perfect, it's bang flop. But things are not always perfect. There is rain and snow on the scope, twigs andleaves that you dont see, deer that arenot standing the way you think they are, bullets that dont work as advertised, and on and on. Little holes make poor blood trails on rain soaked oak leaves and laurel thickets. It will do the job, but in my experience not premier. I've killed a pile of groundhogs with it, some 300 plus yards. Great versatile cartridge, but I prefer a bit more.
Bfly

Ruger hung on there for quite a while and were still chambering the Roberts when they introduced the Hawkeye stocked M77 MKll rifle. But even they have dropped it finally. I have two Hawkeye Roberts', one with matt bluing and one with gloss blueing and have owned three others.

Excellent post BlackFly. The Roberts is my all time favourite cartridge and has a heap of nostalgic appeal but it also pays to be realistic. I have taken fallow deer with mine but I take a bigger cartridge for bigger deer, a 7mm or .30 for reds and a Whelen for sambar.

WTF

I've used about every caliber on a whitetail . The 257's do a tremendous job .

My first rifle was a 270 win, my second was a 93 Mauser in 257 Roberts. I bought it when I was 15 years old and used it exclusively on deer,antelope and elk for 5 years. Don’t use it hardly at all anymore which is a shame, it’ll do it all just fine if you can hunt.

I think there has always been a niche for them, I can remember oldtimers in the early '50s mentioning them around the barbershop when the BS would include hunting.

However, the term premier would have had to be compared with the older established rounds that were also popular. 30-30, 30-06, .270, .300 Savage, and .250 Savage.

It was quite popular at one time. Gaining ground in the depression years slowly and then it's ammo sales spiked at the end of the WW2 years until around 1960

Funny how some "stars" are now seen as antiques.

Another one that was a surprise for me is how popular the 300 Savage was in it's prime. I always figured the 30-30 was the leading caliber for many years as a "deer rifle" and that was correct for close to 80 years. What I was surprised to learn was that the 30-06 was NOT the #2 selling deer round in the USA until the mid 1960s. From around the mid 20s until the mid 60s the 300 Savage was the #2 seller every deer season for ammunition sales in the USA. Growing up from the 50s through the 60s, I always thought the 30-06 was the "All American Round' and would be the big seller all the way from WW1 until then. Nope! The 300 Savage was the #2. 30-06 was #3 for a long time

The sales of the 257 Roberts were fairly high too. Always in the top 7 to 10 from the late 20s until about the late 50s or early 60s. So today, when we think of the old 257 Roberts as an "oldie" we may not fully appreciate how good and well loved it was. It's mostly forgotten today my gun makers and ammo producers, but those that have one and have used it seem to know very well how good it is for deer, and it has been for many years. With todays better bullets, it's a better round now then it ever was, but that has not made it have any resurgence of interest.

Kinda sad....

Ah! Another fan of the Outdoor Life 'Cyclopedia!

I got mine at the used bookstore just after college. My friends were nagging me to go deer hunting, and I was looking for something to read up on the subject. Mine is from 1942.

The 257R has ALWAYS been the premier deer cartridge and always will be 👍

Tell it like it is!

As much as I like the 257 Roberts, I currently have 10 of them, plus 2 in 257AI, I don't think that it was ever a premier cartridge for any application.

The 257 Roberts was introduced in 1934, during the height of the Great Depression, and was cataloged by Remington in the Model 30 and by Winchester in the Models 54 and 70. Since you see very few of those rifles on the market, it would seem that consumer demand was weak, so not many were made. After WW2 ended and firearms manufacturers returned to producing rifles for the civilian market they didn't make much of an effort to sell rifles in 257 Roberts even before the 243 and 244 were introduced in the mid-1950's. Post-WW2 Remington chambered the 257 Roberts in their Models 722 and 760 while Winchester continued to offer it in their Model 70. Based solely on the number of used rifles that I see in 257 Roberts, the Remington 722s seem to be the most common and, IIRC, there were relatively few of them sold after 1955.

When Remington changed from their Models 721, 722, and 725 to the Model 700, they dropped the 257 Roberts and didn't catalog it again until the one year run of 700 Classics in 1982. When Winchester revamped their Model 70 in 1964, they dropped the 257 Roberts and didn't bring it back until it started to be cataloged in the Model 70 FWT in the early 1980's. During the last 50 years Ruger has been the only manufacturer to make a long term commitment to the 257 Roberts in both their Models #1 and 77.

I used to be a 257 Roberts snob, but in my 50's I decided that I was no longer driven to take the road less traveled.and started using the 243 in place of the Bob.

I doubt it. it would surprise me if the 257 Roberts even made up 10% of the rifles out for Deer in any season. The 30-30 and 30-06 reign at the top, with perhaps the 270 right behind.

Not really.

Premier, no. Satisfactory, yes. I have owned a few and have two Ruger 77s left and after several bullet weight and powder combinations, settled on 115 grain Nosler Partitions for Whitetail and Mule deer. I still appreciate Ned's vision of a combo varmint and deer cartridge.

Dammit, now I want a tang safety Ruger 77 in 257 Roberts......

For me, yes it was. In my early teens, I started hunting with my father's tang safety Ruger 77 in 257 Roberts. He had a mild loaded 100gr Sierra and 100gr Nosler Partition loads that shot to the same place at about 2850. He killed several deer and elk with it, and I killed several deer and other big game with it. Premier deer round indeed. I didn't need to shoot anything more than once.

I would guess less than 1%.....Hb

My Dad always spoke highly of the 257 Roberts, but that said....he never had even one that I know of when I was a kid, and always carried his 30-30 in the PA deer woods. Not sure what he based his praise on. I eventually gave him a tang safety 77 roundtop that I got from a guy I worked with, but it was stolen before he ever got to use it. It's now one of MY favorite calibers....have a Rem 722, a VZ24 Mauser and a Win 70.

As a kid in eastern MT in the 1960s, I knew what everyone hunted with....cause I asked everyone for a round for my cartridge collection. Friends, family, and everyone who asked to go hunting on dad's farm. Lots of 270s, 30-06s, 300 Savages. a few 308s and 243s, the occasional 30-30, 250-3000, and 7mm mag. Still quite a few with sporterized oddball military calibers...7 x 57, 8 x 57, 7.7 Japanese, all went hunting on that farm. But only one 348 Win and one 257 Roberts. The Roberts was a M 70 owned by a gun enthusiast neighbor.

I think Ruger would do well to run a classic every now and then like Remington used to with their 700.

Ruger is WELL known for making uncatalogued firearms .

i have been lucky enough to have two of them (thanks Ruger) i have a No.1, and an M77. I was fortunate to find a 77, and then the No.1 was handed down to me from a cousin that can no longer hunt.

Bucks County Arms and Ammo received a limited number of Ruger Hawkeyes in .257 a few years ago. I bought one and I absolutely love it. Check with them, as they may have some left. Someone else here in the fire bought one, and has since posted a range report of it. His actually shoots a bit better than mine, which is tough to beat.

I have used my M77 in .257 Roberts for everything from ground squirrels to elk. Premier? As in top performer? Maybe, but it's never been the top selling cartridge.

The .257 Roberts suffered from the low pressure rating and slow twist barrels. It has every bit of potential of many mid size cartridges. Loaded to modern pressures in modern rifles it is a stellar choice for an all around gun. Jack O' was the reason I bought mine. He's famous for the .270, but when I was young I did a lot of reading of Outdoor Life and Rifleman and his comments on it's usefulness sealed the deal. I had a .30-30 and as it was my only gun I used it for everything. I had an intimate understanding of making due. When I ran across articles on the Roberts and read how well it worked as both varmint and big game cartridge I was sure I needed to get one. Layne Simpson wrote an article that focused on choices for a do-all limited rifle battery and it struck a chord with me. His conclusion was that a two rifle battery consisting of a .257 Roberts and a .338 Win Mag would cover everything and not leave one short of performance. When I joined the Navy one of my first real purchases was a matching pair of Ruger M77's one in .257 Roberts & one in .338WM. That was a long time ago and I still have both and still use both religiously.

My Roberts has proven itself harvesting fur, filling the freezer, and putting an end to many pests. It has been used by family members to take many first deer, been in many family hunts, and used for truck loads of coyotes. Ned Roberts' darling would have made the introduction of the .243 & 6mm Rem non-existent had it been introduced with the same fanfare as bigger companies or anything being introduced today by Hornady. Hornady has successfully introduced "new" cartridges that duplicate existing flops and they're suddenly the bee's knees. Marketing was the reason the Roberts wasn't more popular. Those that know what it is capable of understand.

The Roberts is something that should be wrapped in wood and blued steel... a nostalgic round for a nostalgic platform. Something to enjoy on a glorious fall day.

For hard duty I’ll take something less sentimental and more practical. Pass the 6.5 CM in stainless and fiberglass

Generally I'd agree and understand your sentiment.

But, then what ya gonna do with one like this, wearing a Brux that shoots itty bitty groups...?





DF

The picture messed up the color, turned sorta brownish on the edges. It's a McM Hunters Edge, Flat Dark Earth with Olive specks. True color looks more like center area of the second photo

One of my favorite rifles chambered in 257 Roberts is a 700 CDL-SF that has been bedded in a McM Hunter style stock. Stainless, fiberglass, and quite practical for all manner of varmints and medium game if you load your own.

I'm old enough to remember when Winchester/Olin still cataloged 3 varieties of factory ammo with 87, 100, and 117 grain bullets, but they dropped the 87 and 117 grain loads about 40 years ago and only retained the 100 grain ST.

I've never understood why 257 Roberts factory ammo was loaded to the same approximate performance level as the the 250-3000 despite the Roberts' greater case capacity.

I've never heard about factory built rifles in 257 Roberts having slow ROT barrels. Which ones had slow ROT barrels and what was that slow ROT?

I don't know if it was a premier hunting round, as at the time the people that my father hunted with used a variety of .303 British, .270, .300 Savage, .30-30, with one friend shooting a BIG .30-06 (or at least that was the impression). However, I bought two .257 Roberts in the course of a few years - WInchester Model 70 Featherweight (push feed models). The first one was bought used, and I splurged and bought a Leupold 4x Compact at the same store at the same time. That was my go to rifle for a number of years for woods walking. I have always had great success with the .257R, but it was never more effective than the .308 Winchester or .270 Winchester. Still, a nice light rifle with slightly reduced recoil was always great for hunting and shooting. I have used 90 grain to 120 grain, and they all worked fine.

I don't know about it being a premier hunting round I just know it is one of my personal favorites. I've had two. A Browning A-bolt that, in hindsight, I wish i had kept. It would shoot the 100 gr. Partition damn near in the same hole all day long. Alas, I gave in to sin and traded it off for a used Model 70 FWT, but that FWT has accounted for more dead whitetails and other critters than anything in my safe I think. The old 90 gr. X-bullet, which is no longer in production, over 465. grains of IMR 4350 and a CCI 200 gets me about 2800 FPD out of the 22" barrel. Low recoil and super accurate. I can't ask for much more.

I began deer hunting in 1972 and handloading in 1974. Since that time the 257 Rob has NOT been the premier deer cal/cartridge. As a matter of fact it was many years before I ever heard of the 257 Rob.

I have NOTHING against it. I never heard of the 6.5X55 for even longer yet I have one, so.


Jerry

No. I personally know of one guy that hunted with one. He didn't use it long either.

I've never even see a 257 Robert's and never had a desire to own one. I think there are better 25 cal cartridges, of course that's nothing more than opinion. Consider when it was brought out if it had been called the 257 Win or 257 Rem? I wonder if the 25-06 Rem would have ever showed up? Average hunter's I don't believe make or break a cartridge, they use what they can get and buy into BS! Shooting fanatic's, reloader's make and break cartridge's. We have very prejudice opinion's on most thing's shooting. I think had the 257 Robert's been called 257 Win or Rem it would have had a better chance, heck the average hunter didn't have a clue who Ned Robert's was! What could he know?

Actually I would not consider a 257 Robert's for no other reason than I think the case might be a bit to long to seat a bullet I'd use out near the lands, no other reason! Shoot, had a 6mm Rem and that drove me crazy. Of course on the other side of it, it still killed deer very dead! I do believe pretty much everything in the shooting world is based on whim and what outdoor writers say and their opinions are also pretty much based on whim. When the 257 came about, hunters used 30-30's, 30-06's and 30-40 Krags, lever action and war surplus rifles!

I just read back over this and I mentioned the 25-06. had it been called the 25 Rem would it have made it or did it make it because it was called an 06 after the case it was made from?

Man, I love that gun.

paul , you would like my 257 Roberts i had rebarreled this spring = Remington 30 Express with a 25 inch -7 1/2 twist s.s. Brux barrel ,shoots great .

Pics?

All this has me ordering some Hammer 98 grain Shock Hammers for my Blacktail hunt . My pretty Bob Kimber Classic loves the GS Custom HV 100's over a max load of Hybrid 100V. Maybe the 98's will shoot likewise.

Any terminal performance reports on the 98 gr Hammer or GS HV 100's?

H-100V is a very fast .257R powder. May not be the most temp stable but is accurate in my rifle.

I've posted this target several times. The rifle is the Brux barreled 700 pictured earlier.

The 100 TTSX is an effective deer killer, especially when you put some speed behind it. Was curious how it stacks up against the above bullets.

Note COAL is not for a SA. My Roberts is a LA.

DF

I'm not sure who, but I believe Remingtons' early vision of the Roberts was using an 87gr bullet, much like the .250-3000. It was rated for old conversion rifles as far as pressures go which didn't help either. In fact, Winchester recognized this folly and made sure the .243 was hyped as more of a medium big game cartridge.

I had one of the 1982 Remington Classic rifles in .257 Roberts. I shot the heck out of it and found various 120 grain bullets to be the most accurate. I only hunted with it one year in Wyoming. During the 10 years I hunted there I used to take a different rifle each year. After 10 or 15 years a fellow gun club member wanted it and I sold it to him. I believe he still has it.

I only remember other club members owning a couple of .257 Ackley Improved rifles so, no, I don't believe it was ever a popular cartridge here in southern Ontario.

Jim

Back in the early 1980's I bought all of the 257 Roberts Winchester/Olin factory ammo that the Outdoor Recreation Center at Fort Riely, KS, had for a couple of dollars per box. That white box ammo had 87, 100, and 117 grain bullets. I bought that ammo to feed a Ruger 77R that I bought from Pat's Pawn & Gun in Ogden, KS, but decided that I needed to reload 75 grain Sierra for shooting coyotes and 90 grain Sierra for shooting deer, so I've had most of that ammo packed away for nearly 40 years.

I'd love to see your armory brother!

Sometimes it takes a week or more to find something that I've squirreled away. I've even found guns that I bought at yard sales and didn't print a retail purchase sheet for my records, so finding them was like seeing them for the first time.

Premier? Probably not.

But definitely one of my all time favorite rounds.

The Roberts was designed for woodchucks initially. It is one that a couple of people came up with similar cartridges simultaneously.

A great old country store in Stonewall Tx. Weinhiemer & Son always carries at least a couple of boxes of 257 Ammo. I go and check each time I go there and for some reason it is comforting to see. Only thing now it is right next to the 6.5 CM but times do change.

You see the Roberts used by ranchers, old timers and the cognoscenti around here. The younger generations are more likely to go for the 257AI. But the Creedmoor will probably take it's place. Me I went metric with the 6mm and 6AI and with a 25-06 and 257 Weatherby I probably won't be getting a Roberts any time soon, but you never know. It is a Classic if not "The Premiere" White Tail cartridge.

Spoken like a true Loony.

Never say never.

One thing about the old Roberts, those of us who have them seem pretty fond of them...

DF

For years my FIL carried a pre-'64 Model 70 in 257 Roberts in the rear window rack of his pickup. When my Wife and I moved to Nebraska in 1990 I got him to replace the Winchester 70 in 257 Roberts with a Savage 110 in 243. Shortly after he made the switch, someone stole the Savage out of his truck, out of the same rack that the Winchester 70 had ridden for years.

The 30-06 always was and will be the premier deer cartridge.

yes your right 30-06 will always be the number # 1 cartridge,but many of us hand loading loonies will continue to use other cartridges just because we can. as an older person the 257 Roberts cartridge for me brings back some great old memories of many old friends, so when i was a kid i always wanted a 257 Roberts so now i have a few .

I truly laughed at that. I had an uncle who was that way. Looking under beds in his house was like a treasure hunt.

The 30-06 is the premier but to me it is the 30-30, maybe there can be two premiers?

Those two have harvested a bunch of venison over the decades... Guess we could safely say century...

Still doing it.

DF

I see more custom built 257 ROBERTS than I do factory built rifles. Most of them are old builds from the 50s

Probably the best way to have one and for sure, ya gotta be a reloader.

Just buying an accurate $300 rifle off the LGS rack, a couple boxes of reasonably priced, good shooting ammo, heading for the range, you're talking a Creed or such.

The Roberts is a different animal. Youngsters may not even know what you're talking about. Us old farts do, for sure.

And, I also have a Creed and a Swede, like them both. But, the Roberts is special.

DF

I seem to have a 257 Roberts following. It seems I usually have one around but here’s the kicker. I have never shot anything with one!
Almost as bad is the 280 although I have shot a few deer with those.
I best remedy that this year. I have a nice Featherweight in 257 and another in 280 and for the first time ever, I get to hunt my own property this year. I have 160 acres in northern Missouri with corn and beans all around.
I guess I will have to see which one is The Premier this year!
Les

Sounds about as close to Heaven as you're gonna get for a while!

I think a custom 257 ROBERTS built on a Model 1936 Mexican Mauser would be pure bliss......

Yes sir!

I have a Mexican SR Mauser in 257 Roberts that Mule Deer put together. Not a bad rifle, pretty light and points well. I wonder where it is?

Yep I had the same idea; bought the rifle here and had it completely redone. Rock Creek #1 contour twisted 1-in-9”, Dakota Win 70-style 3-position safety, Glimm’s engraved knob, McM Hunter’s Edge, Birdsong’s Black T plating, canjar trigger.









Just got the bolt back from being jeweled; thinking this may go hunting this fall!!

Dammit.......

Nice.

DF

Thanks; inspired by your Swede.

Got S&Ks that need to be custom fit and Black-T’d then it’ll be DONE DONE.

I"ve heard of Black-T, never had one done.

What's the story on that?

DF

Here is a write-up on it:

http://www.hv-tech.com/birdsong-black-t-coating-finish-raleigh-fayetteville-nc/

Thanks for the link.

I remember Black T being a Birdsong company in MS. I saw where the old man died, but the boys were continuing the business.

This link is Fayetteville, N.C. Was wondering the connection if there was one. Is this the place where you sent your's?

DF

No that link just had a bit more information; this is where I sent mine:

https://black-t.com/

Your recollection is right on the money.

Thanks.

Some coatings make the action tighter, not as easy to cycle. How does Black-T affect the functioning of your rifle?

DF

Never had one and never knew anybody who had one. Don't know that I've ever run across anyone in the woods using one either.

Probably not too many in the woods....

DF

up here in the north country in Minnesota there are a few 257 Robert used and i plan on using one a few days too with 115 gr. Berger bullets for deer.

I know what you mean but no I haven’t observed that.

I had a Yugo 48 plated by Metalife and that seemed to have made the bolt more apt to bind.

After I hunt this a season or two I’ll have a better idea.

I like the lubricity, the fact it made the CM action appear identical to the SS barrel, and the color itself.

I would be quite comfortable in any deer camp with this one.... Pre-War Model 70






Little custom Mauser by Al Biesen.

Nice, both.

DF

both very nice rifles ! it gets me excited for deer season here in Minnesota and to use my 257 Roberts.

I just picked up one of the Supergrade Model 70 Lightweights in 257 Roberts special ordered by Cabelas a few years ago. Going to see how that does out in the woods this year.

What loads?

DF

WOW! Love that mauser by Al Biesen! Beautiful.

+1

That M-70 is no slouch...

Real vintage glass on that one...

DF

The scope is a Dr. Walter Gerard mounted on a Leupold one piece mount.
Kind of interesting I think.

Very interesting, for sure.

What's the story on that?

DF

I have been looking around for information on these scopes.. here is a link to some information.
Seems that Dr. Gerard built sniper scopes for Bavarian snipers.

https://snipercollection.com/category/1900-to-1918/bavarian-scopes/dr-walter-gerard-charlottenburg/

What's the optics like?

Is it still clear enough to use for hunting?

DF

The scope is very clear with German post reticle.

Bet you’ll get questions and comments showing at the deer camp with that one.

DF