It was bound to happen. A deer camp must either grow or die. Much as I like keeping things the same, it just ain't going to happen. I have accepted a new guy at camp this year.

He is a high school friend of #2 son, Moose, and well-liked by #3, Angus as well. My guess is this a long-standing conspiracy to get him in, although it probably stems from reticence on their part to bring up the subject more than anything else. The fellow is a hard worker, with a wife and family. He has been hunting public land around SW Ohio for a decade with little luck. I gave up on those places decades ago for being too crowded. I can see in him the same frustration I had from those days.

This weekend, Moose and Angus organized the most massive campout we've had in over 10 years. Basically, all their friends that have been coming out for the past 5 years all at once, in total, 8 couples. Those guys really spend a lot of time and energy making things work for a crowd, and getting their folks energized about doing things for themselves. I was out there last night for a while, and had fun, even though everyone there was less than half my age.

After his arrival, yesterday morning, I was able to spend some time with the guy. He asks intelligent questions about deer hunting. He will be making a switch from bow to rifle, so he will need a bit of reeducation. He has already been hitting my weblog fairly heavy in recent months. My sons put him onto it after he started asking questions about scent reduction. I suddenly saw an Ohio IP address pounding away at my site, and knew I had a new convert.

In order to ease him into things, I've excluded him from Opening Weekend of Rifle Season. That way it will ease up on the crowding, and it will let our established guys get some of their tags filled. I watched a scenario unfold many years ago at a neighboring camp. They brought in a new guy who had never hunted before and he promptly went out and shot the biggest, oldest buck that anyone had ever seen. The fellow didn't even want the mount; he went home thinking how senseless it all was-- way too easy. What's all the fuss about? That kind dimmed the lights a little at that camp. After 15 years, they were still grousing about it. It kind of pricked me too. He shot him coming off the back end of my property. By bringing our new guy in mid-week we'll all have more time to devout to his quest.

He shoots a .308 WIN, which I'd say is a near-ideal choice for our conditions. I plan on offering him an un-exploited area to the west of camp that sees a lot of deer movement over the season. It is close to camp, so he won't get lost.

Frankly, I'm thrilled to have someone coming onboard with whom I can share it all with. SuperCore was a complete newbie when he showed up with no woods experience since Airborne School. He's celebrating his 10th anniversary at camp this year. Not even a quad-bypass has kept him from showing up.

I'm just interested in y'all's experience with THE NEW GUY AT CAMP .

hey shaman,

That is an excellent thing for you to do.

I have been that "new guy" in a camp or a lease several times. It can be hard being the new guy coming into a established tight-knit group with history, and trying to learn the culture and fit in.

And great idea to ease him in after the opener, and on a new area that has deer but where he isn't taking someone else's favorite spot.

Tim

I find it a bit strange you won’t have him there on opening weekend. He’s either part of the crew or not.

It’s kinda like telling the kids they can come sit at the table for dinner after you’ve eaten the best pieces of steak before they’re allowed to eat.

Spot on.

Some of our best bucks fell to a brand new member. Who cares? I think new members hunt in places that the regulars pass up because the regulars are all knowing. The best camps are the ones that welcome new members with the same "rights" given to all.

Is there dues involved?

I usually don't say much but if I paid my dues and worked just like everyone else I would expect to get to hunt the same as everyone else. Opening day is when all the true friends come together and try to do their best to make their brother successful You said your going to offer him a spot close to camp are you going to ensure that no one else hunt that area until he has had ample opportunity to hunt it. I have been in several clubs over the last 30 years and the only fair way to do things is everyone except for the old men are treated the exact same. Several of the clubs you had to pay a addition fee the first year of a minimal amount. So if he comes in 3 days later and kills the biggest deer killed in 10 years is it going to keep the others from grumbling because they had a head start and he still sealed the deal (I think not). But hey this is your show That's why I got out of clubs and slowly started buying or leasing my own.

I'm not sure I understand the new guy not allowed to hunt the first day thing. If he kills the biggest buck on the planet - who cares? It's obvious the buck had been there in previous years and eluded all the established members, or maybe wandered in from outside the lease.

The other thing about newbie luck is that they dont know the established hunter patterns and hunt wherever they want. I've seen more than a couple times these 'unorthodox' tactics end up putting the newbie onto older bucks that have figured out the hunter patterns. What happens if he shoots Big Hank in year 2 - is that acceptable? If your goal is to bring in a good guy, I think you are sending the wrong message.

Old members getting bent over the new guys success? Sounds like a bunch of women that need a knitting circle not a deer camp.
The guys I hunt with would be happy and congratulatory at the new guys success.

Bing-O.

Doesn't sound like he's a member if he's excluded from opening weekend. I'd refuse that membership.

I also would have him there on opening day if I had a vote. It would give all of the members a chance to get acquainted, especially smoother if he is there on another day when none of you're family is there.

It sounds like he will be an enthusiastic and energetic fit.

Hope you provide him a glossary for the names of every tree, rock, holler and makeshift stand that you have.

New guys in camp can be great or bad. And its always a great feeling when you land a good guy who follows through.

A lease needs new blood

Everyone has the same rules.

That’s the only way for it to work.

Members that don’t fit in, get worked out.

Meat for the freezer is easy, i look for the fellowship.

I don’t trophy hunt, but I’ll dang sure help you drag your buck out. Help skin it too.

Charmin,


STFU and enjoy camp with the new guy.



Bob

Shaman, I've got to agree with TZone's sentiment here. The newbie is either in or out-not in between. I know you guys have taken LOTS of deer from your camp. Would it really be a travesty if he got one opening weekend? It may well be, that this is what he's gonna need to spur his interest in the hunt. I'm all for expecting the same comittment out of him that you'd expect out of any other member-stull like chores around camp, taking his turn washing the dishes, takiing out the garbage, helping drag a deer in, etc. That all comes with the territory. We all know getting a deer becomes tougher after opening day. Your camp, your rules, but if it was me, I'd let him in for the opener. Good luck this fall sir. I hope your gang all fills their tags, including the newbie. Of course you've made arrangements to take him on the fabled pre-deer season snipe hunt, I hope..........

Another story on new members.

We let a new guy hunt with us one season.

Shoulda know, first work day - little Suzy has dance recital or something. Cool beans. Enjoy time with her.

Next work weekend, gotta help his brother plant deer plots at the family farm....

Starting to cause some friction....


Opening morning he’s there before daylight, “i going to that new stand on the ridge..”

The fug you are, you didn’t help trail blaze with machetes amd sweat your balls off back in October to get that stand up.....

I never hunted it, setup bad for a lefty shot. Buddies kil,Ed couple good deer out of there.



I’d be tickled pick in a new guy killed a big deer opening day. Or a kid. Or even a guest.

I wanna see bones on the ground.

Just do your part to get there....

And don’t mooch beer outta my cooler. 😂

Interesting reactions. I really had not thought about some of these angles. Let me explain in a bit more detail.




I think Tim has the right understanding, but let me go a bit deeper.

1) We have a rather small camp filled with some very large people. NewGuy is similarly sized. I'm sure if we set up for it, we could house 20 guys, but that would take considerable work. At this point, NewGuy will be sharing the attic with SuperCore. If we wait until after The Opener, Angus will undoubtedly be back to work, and it frees a bunk.

2) The Opener is a bit of a ritual. It's a practical ritual in that anything spiritual that comes of it is an afterthought. There is a 1-hour mad dash to get everyone in and settled with the final act being everyone adjourning to the Thoughtful Spot to catch their breath, wipe down the sweat, and drink a stiff scotch. We go from everything stashed in the vehicles to a fully action-ready camp. A new guy, unfamiliar with the drill would throw things into a cocked hat. He would also feel like he was caught in a whirlwind.

3) The Opener itself can be daunting. With 3 shot strings per minute for 4-hours straight, the noise alone can be unnerving to a newbie. It really starts hitting the fan about mid-morning for us, when calls start coming in for "Deer Down." I would rather see him be the only tag filled that day so we can give him full support, and not feel like the odd man out.

4) This fellow is the Buckless Youper. He has heart, he has experience, but his luck has been bad. I think this is his first gun hunt and he's walking into a target-rich environment. It's not like we're going to kill all the deer before he gets there. It is not like he's getting the leavings. I'm sure that if he walks out with a deer, he'll be happy. He'll have an un-hunted area that should be holding a sizeable number of deer chased off the adjoining properties by the Orange Army.

5) We have one member that will probably not be hunting too many more seasons. He's recently had a bunch of heartbreak as well. This is the situation where the old dog is seeing the new pup arrive. I don't want to make this Opener all about the new guy arriving.

6) This isn't a dues-paying camp. It's not like he's not getting his money's worth, and if he shows up mid-week, he's got time to settle in before the second Saturday which is almost as frenetic as The Opener. I'm planning to be down the whole two weeks this year, so I'm sure it might be just him and me for a few days. My guess is that NewGuy will be the cat in the corncrib. Normally, I deliberately space my tags throughout the season. I'll try to fill my tags as quickly as possible this year and then give him 1 on 1 support.

7) I gave y'all the story about the newbie getting the camp record, to show how things can go wrong. In our case, I'm sure this guy would be over the moon if he got The Big One, and none of us would be jealous. We've all had our big moments, and it is time to share them. On the other hand, a lot of other stuff can go wrong. If it does, I'd rather it happen mid-week when it can be handled better.


My expectation is that NewGuy is going to be with us for many seasons to come. My guess is that by next year, he'll be in the bucket brigade slinging gear in the door on Friday night and joining us at the Thoughtful Spot hoisting his dram to the moonlit woods and saluting those that are about to die.

Shaman, I truly enjoy your writings!

Struck me as odd as well. Also the thing about the other camp and the new guy shooting a big buck. Any crew I ever hunted with would be thrilled if a new guy lucked into a great buck. At our lease in AL all members and their guests are treated like first class members no matter how long they been around. Its all part of being a good host or hunting partner.

Turning Deer camp into the equivalent of a Presidential inauguration seems a little over the top..."Ok, you will sit here, and here is your choreographed camp protocol..However, it first must be confirmed and officially authorized by the consensus of the 24 Hour Campfire...So the final format has yet to be confirmed...All will be worked out by the evening prior to the opener. This additional individual will require us to work around unfamiliar circumstances. In addition we are short on beds, so he will sleep on the couch, unless one of you wants to give up your bunk."

Either he fits in and is invited back or doesn't. Something that in most cases can be easily determined ahead of the event. In addition some fit in immediately, while others take time on both sides to do the same. Around here the individual who brings another in is the one who gets the raz if it doesn't work out...Then again things work the other way also ....

The number of individuals here, who make relatively easy decisions based on 24 Hour consensus, is an interesting internet phenomenon ...

You don't know how pleased I am I don't have to go thru this hunting camp B.S. I hunt where I want, when I want, and what I want, With us every critter killed is a trophy to the person that killed it, and we are happy for them. this whole hunting camp thing sounds petty as hell. Rio7

Much the same here. Of course sometimes there may be a new guy. In the camp, car, motel or field..How it will workout is usually a given...There can be issues, handle them and move on...

Not really sure I would want to go hunt where there’s 3 shots a minute flying for 4 hours on opening day. Does everything within a 2 mile radius have dozens of bullet holes in it?

I brought a guy to camp once. He stayed drunk the entire trip and made an ass of himself regularly. I haven’t invited anyone since.

I have been in the same club for 10 years. Game is pretty abundant. This will be my last season there. I just got tired of it. Rules about this, rules about that, size of bucks etc. etc. I guess I am getting tired of hunting and not having fun. My club is 2 hours from home and the drive is getting old too. I enjoy the range more and more.

Have you discussed with the new member to see what he thinks? If not, maybe layout both options and let him decide. He might be aligned with you already and then you don’t have an issue.

I can see your points and including him at all is very nice of you but either he is going to fit in or he won’t no matter how you introduce him. Nothing is like the feeling of opening morning. If you are nervous about turning him “loose” by himself then have him hunt with you opening morning.

I know a guy who came to hunt and killed a nice one the first day. Everybody was helpful and happy for him! I hope all is well with you Harry.

That was a great day and one that had more memories than just a fine Deer...Again I thank all of you for not only the memory, but also the friendship extended...
And for those that don't know, they gave me the best stand on the place, and didn't mind when I put on my own little walkabout...

I hope all is well with all of you also...Things are fine here...right now arm wrestling with a rusted trailer hitch....I almost have it pinned....almost.

Actually, no. Even though there are that many shots flying, it all stays well contained. That's not 3 shots per minute. It's 3 shot-strings per minute. I count multiple shots from one source as one shot string. I've seen a WWII vet crawl up in a ball over this kind of incoming. There are a lot more singles now than 20 years ago. The old timers would empty their 30-30's and reload and blast away again until something dropped. Now that sons and grandsons are using more aught-sixes and such that's become a bit of a history. I resided a 100-yr old farmhouse after we moved in and there were no signs. I did have a close shave with a round whizzing past the first year as I was passing between the house and the sheds, but I think that was a disgruntled neighbor tell me what he thought me posting my property. However, this is life in Zone 1 of Kentucky. It's the Big Show.

This fellow is well known to my sons, but unknown to my oldest guest. SuperCore is a retired professor, and I'm sure he's going to underwrite the choice. He was my boss at one time. We've known each other for over 30 years. We're both mentoring types. The whole point here is to bring NewGuy in and show him the ropes.

I love this from The Big Kahuna:


“- Bob Walker: Throw me in the water and see if I can swim?
- Larry Mann: I think you're missing the point here Bob, we're about to throw you off a cliff and see if you can fly.”


Too many rules? No. We have a fairly do-what-ye-may kind of rule book. Nobody goes out drunk. Most guys take a buck before going for a doe, but that's due to the dynamics of the season. Points? Inside spreads? I'd rather pull my own head off. My one rule is that the dinky-doo spikes get mounted in the dining room with a trophy shot. I've got a couple up there myself. The other is Rule 1: Obey all rules. We obey all KY hunting rules, because we're non-residents, and I'm a semi-retired semi-public semi-pro. If a CO wanted to gig someone at our camp, we might be open to Lacey Act violations. We stay spotless.

He's down with the plan completely as it stands. I discussed this with #2 and #3 son over the past few years, and they've been kind of building up to this in general terms for some time. The watershed was NewGuy spending the money for a full non-resident tag to go squirrel hunting. Other guys have come up to September and looked at the license and tag fees in KY and stay on the other side of the Ohio. He gets 4 tags in Zone 1, one of which can be a buck. Without much effort, he could fill all 4 even if he started the second weekend of season. My guess is he's going to hold out for a buck and fill his freezer, burning just his first tag and go home leaving puddles joy.

the land i own is kinda small 200 acres so its basically son and i and we have shot some very nice bucks over the years,i have grandkids coming up soon so i save it for my close knit family,i do the minerals and food plotts and just enjoy watching deer every day of the seasons. i never did care much to be in hunting groups to many arguments ,drunks, some don`t pay their fare share and some are just lazy ! i like not seeing people in my deer woods in northern Minnesota.

Shaman - you've obviously put a lot of thought and a lot of heart into your plans for deer camp.

Deciding to spend more time with the new kid and show him the ropes is a far better idea than letting him be lost in the crowd and left to figure things out by himself.

He'll feel more at ease and less like he's going to screw something up in front of a group of strangers.

Have a nice little celebration with him and the rest of your crew when he gets his deer - but you've probably already thought of that.

Then get him into a work crew next year getting the camp ready so he feels he has some investment in the whole process and gets some more time to get to know the regulars.

I predict he'll be a happy, lifelong member of your group.

Well done!

Mister Czech: It's funny you mention work crews. My sons have been pretty good about dragging folks out for campouts/shooting party/work dates. NewGuy is the first one to actually hunt deer or turkey, but if I ask for a work weekend, it gets pretty well attended with able bodies. Folks like the camping and shooting so much, they're happy to come out. As with this past Labor Day, I get treated like royalty. I eat and drink for free.

None of that changes my opinion.

If he’s not part of the opening day ritual this season, why do you think he’ll be used to it next season? It just doesn’t make any sense. It sounds more like you don’t want him there but the kids do.

I agree.

It’s usually not. It’s typically a blast and more fun than should be allowed. Probably not different than your hunting leases, but there is usually a “shack” of some sort built with varying degrees of creativity.

UPDATE: I was able to reach SuperCore and we had a bit of adventure this PM. One of his old buddies is clearing out and we went over to the other side of town and picked up a gun cabinet that will eventually find its way to deer camp after the addition gets built. I let him in on NewGuy joining the Shamanic Dream Team. He concurred on all counts. He is the most recent addition, and he was quite overwhelmed by The Opener. It was partly because of SuperCore that I thought of easing the next guy in. SuperCore did great. He managed to kill 2 deer at his first sitting. However, he was quite overwhelmed. I wasn't quite sure if he was coming back. I waited until March to ask. Yes, he'd made it through, and thought long and hard about it, and finally decided it was the most fun he had ever had. He's been coming ever since. He mentioned all that this afternoon. He still can bring himself to bite his fingernails-- long story. I tell y'all sometime when we're at the campfire together.


BTW: I want to thank y'all for expressing your opinions. I honestly had not looked at it any other way. I went as far as calling down to the farm and double-checking with Moose. Yes, even NewGuy is happy to show up after The Opener.

tzone, There are many hunting camps of various sizes all over Texas, some are on public land most are on private land, our place is all private land, we do not lease any land, we do lease out 16000 acres but not for hunting, for cattle. our smallest pasture is 2500 acres, S. Texas, is a whole different world than what you all are talking about. Rio7

What do you guys do for the “ritual” of getting all your stuff out and into the cabin that’s so crazy as to potentially give the new guy a fatal case of PTSD?

Our elk/deer camp has been going uninterrupted since 1955. There’s probably been 100 or more guys cycle through as friends or guests over that time. Some were family, some friends, some just guys who knew someone we knew and asked if they could come along. Some of them came once and couldn’t hack hunting in the mountains or made an ass of themselves and were uninvited, some came every year for over 50 years. But we expect all hands on deck when we hit camp and everyone pitches in to put up the wall tent, build the meat pole, erect the schit palace, cut firewood, plumb lights, assemble bunks, whatever needs to be done. It’s part of going to camp. Someone stands around with their hands in their pockets they might be handed a shovel and asked to trench the tent.

You can do as you see fit obviously, it’s your place and your guest. Just seems like there couldn’t possibly be that much “going on” if it’s just some guys unloading a week’s groceries into an old house. Hell we plumb in gas lights and cooking range, put up a real 300lb wood stove, build a dining table and 12 bunk beds, and lay out carpet, in a tent. Plus digging a hole and erecting a tent for the outhouse.

We hunt as hard and as long as anyone and we cover a lot of ground when we need to, there's many nights when we are still bringing in and dressing animals at 10:30 to 11:00 but I sleep in my own bed every night, sometimes the nights are real short but that's part of hunting My idea of camping out is the Holiday Inn Rio7

To me......

A "fair" camp is one where even the new guy is given to same access and courtesy as the "old" guys.

If he pays his dues, so what if he is lucky enough to kill the biggest buck the club has ever taken? If that happened the old guys should congratulate him.

Also, there is nothing worse than a club that has members paying the same dues, but are limited on what stands and locations they can hunt. Every member should be able to rotate and hunt the same fields and stands. There is noting worse than a club with members complaining about someone else cutting off deer or hunting "their" field or stand.

Rotate things to be fair and don't have designated areas. Designated areas only cause jealousy, resentment and destroy clubs. YMMV

I've got to agree with tzone and others. To me, the build up to opening day is far and away more important that killing a deer. Seeing folks I haven't seen in a year, catching up with old friends, meeting new ones, laughing at the 'latest greatest whiz bang deer hunting gimmick' as it us unpacked, and hearing the stories of past hunts is what makes deer camp so exciting. IMO, your plan to bring him in later in the week will deny him that experience. By midweek, that 'first day of camp excitement' is gone.

I can see your point about things being overwhelming but he's a grown man with a decade or more of hunting experience. In my opinion, he would do just fine on opening weekend.

That said, good luck to you and the crew however it works out,

Dale

Honestly surprised you found someone that wants to join ya'll based on your description of the chaos as well as the apparent rigid rules of where/when/how one hunts etc. Doesnt seem at all like anything I would enjoy one bit. To each their own....your camp, your rules. Best of luck to all involved.

This post made me think. Truth is we really don't have anyone coming up behind us. We're all 50+ (through 75). Two sons in their 20's of one guy but neither have hunters ed done yet. We really try and encourage them to get involved, but they're chasing skirts, going to grad school, etc. I was them once, too. (Wish I'd gone hunting instead.......)

As one of the “founders” of our elk camp, I’ve seen things change over the past 16 years. I know that is not a long time compared to some of you, but it is what it is. There’s only two of the originals left and I’m not keen on some of the new hunters that have joined the past couple of years. I’m nearly 71 and the other old timer is 64. The nearest other regular is 58. The average number of years the other 7 have hunted with us is about 4. I’m tired of dealing with who’s going or not going every year and all the drama and bullsheit. I may depart the pattern and hunt with my landowner buddy or with my hunting neighbor near home. They can keep the group alive if they really want to. I think I’m out for now. Happy Trails

You need to get working on that. I invited SuperCore to join us in 2009 after he retired from work. He's now pushing 80. My sons worked on several friends over the years. None of them up until this one made it all the way to an invite until now. The biggest sticking problem seemed to be the cost. We're free. We do not charge dues or fees or anything, but the KY non-resident license and tag fees are steep. There is also the Hunters Ed requirement. MInd you, these are all guys born after 1990. Many of them are or were just starting out. It comes down to lack of hunting experience. Nobody took them out when they were young, and so they can't see why they should pay hundreds to hunt a deer. We also don't have party tags in our state. We can't legally pool deer tags.







As I said previously, we don't really have all that many rules, beyond the ones imposed by the state. There's the mandatory orange thing, and a fairly broad list of chamberings-- anything centerfire 223 and over. If you didn't want to stay put in a stand or blind, I could show you routes where you could still hunt and not bother others, but the problem is that if you kept that up, the deer would clear out and go next door until you gave up. If you go somewhere and sit quietly, the deer often times show up on queue. We frequently have our buck tags filled by 1000 of The Opener. The biggest problem with still hunting in this environment is that 200 acres is relatively small. I walk the distance from the house to my stand at Campground in 18 minutes. Every other farm in the vicinity is that size or smaller. The average hunter density is one hunter per 20 acres or so. Were you to still hunt out to the edges, you'd be getting into the sights of others. This is not a hunting style for everyone, but we have a gas with it.

If your deer camp is that crowded it dont sound like you need any new guys but to downsize some more...our camp started 30 years ago, it is a small camp. we started with 8 members and we are now holding it to 7 guys (3 of which are founding members) this gives everyone plenty of space and makes it more enjoyable, I have stayed in packed deer camps before and it was a miserable experience 👎🏿.....We have had several members drop out over the last 30 years but we are very selective as to who we invite to be our new members. New guys are always welcomed in as a full member which includes opening weekend of gun season with no restrictions.....Good hunting ....Hb

We currently have a max of 4 hunters on 200 acres. This is about 1/4 of what the neighbors are doing. Adding NewGuy is going to raise that number for a while, but we know SuperCore is looking at his last few seasons. The other thing is that #3 son, Angus has a busy work schedule. He comes in on the Opener, fills his tags and then maybe hunts 1 weekend after that. The accommodations are able to fit more folks, but 4 makes for plenty of breathing room. NewGuy's schedule is such that mid-week hunting may be a better option for him. Mid-week is usually just myself and SuperCore at camp. Having a 3rd guy would be a boon.

The other issue on the horizon is Granddaughter #1. Mooselette is starting 3rd grade today. She's not big enough to shoulder a deer rifle, but she's coming along. Daddy Moose and I are taking her out with us. Eventually, she will be coming online.

Seems as if the land a camp sits on has a lot to do with how things are run...Have never been to a camp in Pa that didn't sit on the edge of a large Game Lands, National or State Forest..

One and perhaps the best was surrounded by a Pa State Forest of 305,000 acres. The original young Bucks had bought the land in the early 1900's and the State kept buying land around them. Eventually the State tried to buy them out and when that failed tried to force them out. However by then some of the originals had acquired some political influence and out forced them. Place is unique along with the members..Mill guys, successful builders, gas station owners, farmers, etc and they built a special place in the middle of that 300,000 plus acres.

The originals were a rowdy bunch and today the place has tamed down. One guy died of a heart attack the evening before the Deer opener. They had a meeting and decided that would really mess up the opener when the authorities were told...A Doctor was a camp member, so they placed the guy in the back seat and headed for home..Story was he wasn't feeling well and wanted to go home...three hour drive. Doctor signed the death certificate that he had a HA while sleeping in the back seat and they didn't realize it until they arrived home. A funeral director friend handled the other particulars quickly...And the Deer hunt went on as usual.

Used to go up with one of the members and hunt Deer, Grouse, Squirrels, Turkey when no others were there..Pretty much only one rule, which was don't get hurt back in there because it was 10 miles to a small town and another 50 to a little hospital...

When a camp member died, at the funeral all the camp members would go to the front of the church with the casket and sing “When the roll is called up yonder I’ll be there.” Don’t know if they still do the same.

Battue, Good story, We tell people if they die here, we tie barb wire around their foot and drag them to the dump and bury them with a backhoe, so far we have been lucky no one has died. Rio7

Good of you to let a new guy in.

Your place, your rules. BUT - I promise you none of it is as complicated as you want it to be (make it). Your camp setup isn't rocket science, guaranteed. If you think he'll get in the way of setting up camp I can't imagine wanting him around in the first place. Not much of a chore getting someone on stand in the morning and saying "Stay here until someone picks you up. If x,y,z happens call/text/smoke signal and sit tight." Either he'll fit in or he won't. Comes off as a little condescending when you act like you need to hold his hog before he can piss.

Again, your place, your rules - just call it what it is.

Am glad so many of you can enjoy the hunts with family and friends. I have always been a loner and even during those years packing and guiding in the backcountry ,I preferred to hunt alone when I was afforded the time. I never liked all the dudes, many of whom could not hunt or navigate worth a lick. After all these years I can count my hunting partners on about 3 fingers!

Excellent story Battue!..Thanks for sharing 👍....Hb

Now THATS a deer camp story!!

Approve!

Good point, but NewGuy is probably going to be welcoming the help. This will be his first gun hunt. He's a shooter, but only hunted deer with a bow previously. Were we to take it the other way, give him a permission slip and let him go for it, I'm pretty sure he'd feel he was being tossed off the end of the dock into deep water. I'm sure by the The Opener, 2021, he'll feel like he's been doing it all his life.

Battue: That's a good story. Hopefully, we won't have to face that eventuality for a while. I'm sure when one of us goes, we'll have a bagpiper playing Caber Feigh (The Deer's Antlers) for us.

Well that oughta teach ya to invite new people. Lol

Fuggin campfire gets more stupid by the damn day...

I will come hunt with ya anytime shaman.

Here it sits on the edge of "God's Country". They trucked a dozer up, across and down mountain to build a lake...."Don't need no stinking permit." Nowdays, Elk come and stand in that lake when it is hot...

One of the originals was my Step Father....You boys are mostly tame in comparison...

In the old days "Squirrel" and his Dog lived there full time in the original camp which is the smaller one. Which has since been torn down and rebuilt.."Squirrel" lived on his small garden, with a spring house back behind the camp and whatever he shot during the year.. From a spring up in the hollow, they ran a larger pipe, with decreasing diameter down to the camps. Had better water pressure than most have in the city....

Very interesting battue. The thread also, as I didn’t grow up in the hunting camp and “big woods” culture. I can easily guess a hunting camp could get ticklish depending on personalities as things never stay the same.

Very cool battue.

I never became a member since I mainly ran with some guys I knew for years. But often went up there as a guest with my Step Father and another one of the members....Really cool place....

There is a lot about our camp here in the Trans-Bluegrass that is probably different than a lot of places.

1) This is all private land. The farms are usually 20-300 acres.
2) The deer density is quite high. Deer outnumber humans. The state is trying to reduce the herd in this zone.
3) With the proximity to Indiana and Ohio, there are a lot of non-resident hunters, us among them.
4) There are few deer leases. One of the few local ones is directly behind our property. Most of the "camps" are someone's grandparent's farm with either the old farmhouse or a trailer.
5) The hunter density is quite high. There are probably 1100 hunters within earshot of us. The CO told me that he's never seen anything like our part of the county. He grew up here.


Ooops. Gotta run. More later.

OK. I'm back.

So how does this influence our hunting?

1) We tend to hunt the center of the property, especially during The Opener. I have probably the most exposed stand of any; it's 80 yards from the line. However, my back is to a large oak and you would need to be on our side of the line to get a clear shot. It's also in a place that the neighbors seldom go. In 18 seasons, I have yet to see another man's orange from my vantage.
2) There are places on the property where we just don't go. I was tracking a deer back in 2004 and managed to get behind a neighbor's backstop without knowing. They started a shooting contest, and I had a few close misses before hightailing it out. When I mentioned it to the owner, his response was, "Don't worry. If we was aiming for you, we'd have hit you."
3) Orange is our color. We can see other hunters at 1000 yards if they're wearing orange. If we're away from the front porch, we are in orange.
4) We have little contact with the other camps. When the bar over on the next ridge was still in business we used to go over frequently and have dinner and visit. Nowadays, I hardly know who is out there.
5) Until very recently, we had to worry about the processors filling up. If we had a deer down on the Opener we needed to get it out to the processor as quickly as possible. In the evening, we still have to be quick about it. The nearest processor is 30 minutes away. If we tarry, they'll be closed by the time we get there.

shaman, sounds like a walk in cooler would be a big asset. Don't you guys at least quarter the deer up and put the meat in a cooler? I can not imagine spending money for processing deer. I would go broke not to mention the satisfaction of doing your own.

Once I retire, and move down there permanently, it'll make more sense to DIY and forget the processor. As it is, we do it as a matter of time saving and convenience. Our preferred processor is about 1/2 hour away on the way out. He does a great job. All we have to do is bring him a clean carcass. If we DIY'd it , it would be a much bigger chunk out of season doing something other than hunting.

I now have pictures of NewGuy.



NewGuy is on the right, coming back from a squirrel hunt with Angus.

Here he is trailing me past one of the cameras.

Shaman, what does NewGuy get called next season ?

& is that a 'deadhead' Angus is holding ?

Good luck with your season.

That's a current topic of discussion topic. NewGuy is a working handle. We're playing around with callsigns. When we make the formal announcement of him joining the Shamanic Dream Team, we'll have it all settled.

Yes, that's a nice 8 pointer. It's a shame too-- probably ran off the neighbor's place to the east. We got an even bigger one back in November that had been bow shot and run onto our property.

LMFAO!!!!!

Shaman,

Can you and your camp find it in the goodness of your souls to invite Renegade to your camp? Bless his heart, he needs someone of your abilities to teach him bushcraft and Whitetail 101. Thanks



Bob

Is that Shaman or Ewell Gibbons?

My only hesitation is that he seems to laugh without any particular reason. That can be a dangerous sign in some folks.

WAM: While I appreciate the taste of wild hickory nuts, that's just me there. I was fresh in from my inaugural squirrel hunt.

Sham,


Thanks for the consideration. I know it would warm Renegade’s heart to be included. Maybe he will also learn to stop shooting the first little buck that wanders by and still has milk on his lips.


Bob

New Guy looks like he's enjoying his new playground and friends.

This is usually a steadfast camp bylaw. NewGuy will forever be known as NewGuy. This shall not change. Another addition to camp shall be annointed as [bleep], or FNG for short. This is Camp Law 101.

We made that mistake naming stands. In 2006, I decided Heartbreak Ridge just wasn't producing, and I moved the stand about 80 yards along the side of the ridge to a new location I dubbed NewStand. It produced deer, but they all fell down the steep slope all the way to the bottom. Pretty soon, nobody wanted to hunt NewStand. We pulled the stand out in 2016.

PapaAlpha or PapaAlphaOne has been put forward as a CallSign. I'm not in love with it yet, but I'm not going rule it out. SuperCore was easy to name. SuperCore was his nickname at NCR back in the 60's. IBM had come out with core memory, and NCR tried to match them with what they called "Super Core Memory." It was vaporware, and never quite made it to market. One of SuperCore's customers, a mutual friend, named him that; for 3 years SuperCore was announcing this fabulous new product that was just about to arrive.

The new guy has to wait until anything decent are all shot off the bait piles.

😂😂

😂😂😂

Don’t

Just don’t

LOL

Head to Toe orange suit with matching orange Gilligan hat

cat’s outta the bag

LOL

Giant carrot man 👍😂

#PapaAlphaOneOut
#WineNight
#WineInabox

Bait piles are just not worth it where we are. I had a neighbor that used to spend $800 a year on a massive one. He would have been the first to admit that mostly what he was doing was feeding my deer. They came off my property in droves at night, fed on his corn and then went back over the line to bed at my place. It's very expensive to maintain, and it really doesn't pay off in the long run. The big problem is acorns. You just can't complete with the wild mast at this time of year. Deer will pass up everything if they can get their fill of white oak acorns and we have an abundance of old white oaks growing down an abandoned road on the center of the property.

As far as tipping the scales in our favor, the most we've done is torn up a couple of pastures and planted clover at times. I think the last one was about 10 years ago. Honestly, it just isn't needed in our part of the world. I've got deer coming up and sticking their heads in the bedroom window when I'm taking a nap.

That's about what I gathered from it.

It's okay guys. I'll take you off the waiting list

Put me on it :

Robert B. Brown





Bob

You bet. Start working on your callsign.


This kind of puts me in mind of Deer & Deer Hunting's Pro Staff shenanigans. There were always questions about who we were and what we'd had to do to become a pro-staffer, and did we all hunt together and stuff like that. Actually the situation was a lot like here, except some of us had been appointed subject matter experts for our state. I did double-duty for Ohio and Kentucky, and also answering questions about deer rifles and reloading. There was always what I'd call fan mail. It was just plain silly for grown men to be asking those questions.

The guy from Iowa (I'm sorry his name escapes me) and I started playing this whole thing for laughs. Yes, we did hunt together. We hunted at one of several D&DH facilities around the country, but we had a large facilty in an undisclosed location that was was both a test lab and conditioning facility to keep us in peek conditioning.. Yes, we underwent a strenuous test to get in. The details were phenomenal. Army Rangers couldn't have passed it. Yes, we spent most of our time at the D&DH clubhouse, flying home occasionally to be with our families. The deeper we went in this thing, the more ludicrous the questions became. I invented "Scooter." He was a young orphan that we'd taken in and we were teaching him how to be a good pro-staffer. Scooter was always asking silly questions about deer hunting, but we'd always take time to answer him. The trick was that no pro-staffer could disagree with another, no matter how bizarre it got. We kept a unified front. Yes, it was all true. Professional wrestlers and TV hucksters would blush at our claims.


Most of the guys on D&DH knew this was just a gag, but there were fellows who would come on the forum and argue that some little bit of minutiae was not true. Never mind that that the whole thing was a complete farce. It was a lot of fun. I'm sorry it had to go.

So yes, y'all have us! Someone took this pic the other day and was trying to use it to blackmail our deer camp. I figure the best way is to come clean and beg the Tennessee delegation for forgiveness:



Oh the shame!

If I pay my money to hunt I'll be damned if you're going to tell me not to show up opening day. Around here, when you get on a new lease they tell you the rules. You break those rules and they probably won't ask you back next year. But they probably won't micro manage you either. You pay your money, they assign you an area(or you draw for an area), and you are free to hunt legally and ethically and above all safely.

Yeah and when you take it to a processor you don't know if you'll get your deer or somebody elses. That wouldn't be too bad except you don't know how old another deer was once it gets processed, you don't know how the deer was handled or how long it stayed warm after shooting. If I do it myself I know what I've got and I have control over doing it.
I haven't taken a deer to a processor since I killed my first deer in 1966. That was the only deer I ever had processed. But I was all of 18 years old and didn't really have a clue.
'

We are not a for-pay operation. We are not a lease. We are not a club. We collect no dues. We have no rules. My boys are inviting a friend out, and we decided that it would be best to extend the invitation after Opening Weekend to give him a better chance of settling in and being successful. That's the short of it. If NewGuy has a good time and enjoys himself, we'll keep inviting him, and I have no doubt he'll be invited back next year for the Opener. This is going to be his first rifle hunt, and everyone (including NewGuy) agrees.

It's okay if that's hard to grasp. Not everyone is cut out for this situation. I'll be happy to take your name off the waiting list as well.

BTW: This is not our first attempt at this. I had a fellow come out a number of years ago and went squirrel hunting in full tactical gear and a drop holster. He said, he didn't know what he was going to be running into. I had a couple turkey hunters on the property a few years ago, and they spent the afternoon trying to chase a flock like they were quail. We gave permission a while back for another father/son pair to deer hunt a section of our property, and we later found them the next spring turkey hunting on the other side of the property in one of my blinds. My sons had a friend to a campout that nearly rolled his truck (while he was sober) as he was blowing through the hay that had just been raked.

This all reminds me of a piece I wrote in June of last year. We had experienced a situation in that a guy was pushing for an invite, and it turned out there were . . . issues. My sons were the ones that tipped the scales against the fellow. It had little to do with me. At the same time, we had met a guy who would have been ideal, but his health was not up to scratch and he decided he couldn't come. While I was cogitating on all this, I wrote this in the weblog:

Who Comes to Deer Camp

I'm sure there's a bunch of rugged individualists that won't understand.

I guess you'll be damned if you'll read before ranting too.

This is a funny thread.

I think more of a farce than anything else.."

I think some people take themselves and deer hunting, way to seriously

They are just trying to get a Pro Staff gig and wrapped 4x4 pick em up truck.

While I was talking with NewGuy around the Campfire, I laid out my recommendations for gear. He's been a bowhunter for 10 years. I know he knows his way around. However, I wanted to let him know what works best for us under the conditions we face. I got it all written down and added pics.

If I were the NewGuy

The 70’s called to congratulate you on the gear recommendations.

Care to elaborate?

I notice a lot of knit hats. Me? I prefer waterproof shell with insulation underneath. I like a bill on it as well, because it keeps my glasses from getting wet in the rain. In the morning, I wear a wool balaclava underneath for additional warmth and then pull it down and use it as a neck gaiter later in the day.

Thats really...something. You forgot the Butt Out 2.

How did it work for you?

KY deer season runs 11/14-11/29. Based upon what I've experienced hunting deer in ND, MT, MN, and SD, if Shaman was so kind as to invite me and was he expecting to be in camp all season, I'd be lobbying for being in camp during the last week of season rather than opener.

I like a new guy who does his share of the chores, pays his share of the expenses, and who follows the rules.

I like a new guy who wants to learn the lay of the land by walking it, not by looking at a Google Earth map. I like a guy who stays on his assigned stand, doesn't get bored, and doesn't walk around disturbing the deer. People leaving their assigned stands is a pet peeve of mine that dates back almost 50 years when we put a new guy on a stand and drove a massive buck to him only to find that he got bored and wandered off. The buck tracks went within 50' of the stand and would have presented an easy shot for him.

Yes. There's really no telling yet how this year is going to shape up. I've seen some real monsters out there in the last week. The beginning of season, if it's a warm one, usually sees the deer still back in the woods eating on what's left of the acorns. Once those are gone, they move out into the pastures and go after remaining clover. We have picked up some really big ones as this transition happens, usually in the second week of season. This is includes our #2 buck and the Half-monster that would have been the camp record, except he broke off the whole right side of his rack.




Exactly. I think NewGuy is not going to be a wanderer. He's used to stand hunting with a bow. My main concern is that he gets proper support. When 4 of us all have all of our tags to fill, it's hectic.

I'm seriously interested in what you mean. Honest.

Shaman

Just found your website tonight and spent some time there. Nicely done!

You and I are in similar boats...63, with nearly 300 acres in a state that is not my residence (yet).

I have owned the property 10 years now, and have yet to hunt deer myself...always friends and family (mostly the latter). We generally have 4 guys hunting (son, son-in-law, brother-in-law and a friend) and kill 3 or 4 deer...a relative pittance given the entire property is good habitat.

As the guy who paid for the land, pays the taxes, clears the trails, supplements the deer...I figure I get to make the rules. Just like you do.

I believe in QDM, but not to the point where I tell the new guy (who's never killed a deer) he can't shoot a fork or a spike. I encourage thoughtful use...but sometimes the best use of a forkhorn is as a new hunter's first deer!

As the management starts paying dividends and the trail cam pics of 140 and 150 inch deer start coming, the guys self-police. Who's going to shoot a 1.5 year old fork when he knows there's a 4.5 year old 140 incher wandering close by?

Best of luck in this upcoming season (not that I believe in luck!).


Tim

As I just mentioned in another thread: It's good to be the patriarch of deer camp!

I'm glad you like my weblog.

As you will find, the trick to running a benevolent dictatorship is having as few rules as possible. Fewer rules mean fewer rules to enforce. Read a lot about Taoism. It was written for guys like us.

https://dillonrichardson.com/nine-lessons-taoteching-teaches-leadership/

You're exactly right. In this case, my NewGuy is suffering from the same problem I had with bowhunting. I saw deer almost every time I went out, but I went years before I actually arrowed one. I was under the delusion that every doe must have a buck trailing somewhere behind. This fellow has been chasing after Mister Big for too long and just needs to have his cherry popped.

Update on NewGuy:

I heard that NewGuy found himself a non-working Win 94 Ranger on the cheap and got it repaired. Hearing that, his father in Michigan told NewGuy that his Marlin 336 is available if he wants to drive to Michigan this weekend. Bottom line: NewGuy is going for the 30-30 route. We are probably going to see him next weekend for sighting in, scouting, and stand setting.


QDM
The shamanic QDM plan goes something like this: Whatever you shoot this year, try to make it better than last year.

Now mind you, this is not a "rule." However, it's a good way to figure out if what you're point your gun at is worth shooting. It also went into can when I shot the camp record back in 2007. Then the question became: "Now what?" I knew as soon as I saw that rack that I wasn't going to top it for a long, long time.

The truth about us is that, in general, we've got one or two mature bucks on the place at any given time and they wander on and wander off constantly. The best you can do as far as QDM is concerned is make the doe happy and then they turn around and act as bait. Last year, I saw a deer that was bigger than The Big One and I couldn't get my gun up fast enough. They are out there.

/\ Yup.

I was born and raised in the west. Free hunting and millions of acres to go where I want. I’m thankful for that. But I’ve also done the “hunt club” scene in the whitetail woods. It was awesome. The camp and camaraderie was awesome. I had hunted a bunch previous, but never stand hunted for whitetail. It was different it was awesome.

If I would have went under the guise that I wasn’t welcome opening weekend just because you’d be unsure if I could handle it or not, and that I may get in the way, I would politely decline any invite to continue hunting. Your camp, your rules but dang.... they seem way strict and way too much government for me to have any fun. But the new guy probably just doesn’t know any better. Good luck to him. He farts wrong with the wrong direction of wind will probably get him expelled.

Todd

As far as farting goes, he'll have plenty of competition. We're all pretty proficient in that area. Frankly, I don't know how one determines if a fart is wrong. #2 son, Moose is the fartmaster. In other families, one blames it on the dog. In this clan, you just have to look at the Moose.

NewGuy's schedule is such that his weekends are at a premium. Having him start after the first weekend is as much a scheduling thing as it is anything else. I can't tell you what's in NewGuy's mind, but he seems happy just to have a chance at hunting private property and not having to drive from home to get there. Our last NewGuy was SuperCore. He joined camp in 2009. He found his first Opener to be far too hectic to really enjoy it. Things really didn't start making sense until the pace slowed down mid-week. It's kind of like when the kids were younger and they'd dive into the presents on Christmas Day. Within a short time, there they'd be in the middle of the floor, surrounded by wrapping paper and boxes and crying-- too much, too fast. Mind you, SuperCore was Airborne in his younger life.

If this NewGuy had been all pedal-to-the-metal about this, I'd have probably let him come for The Opener. This isn't about rules and probationary periods and hooey like that. Lord knows, we're all a bunch of helmet jockeys riding the short bus to deer camp. NewGuy is making a huge change, and it's one that I went through at some point. Up until now, he's been driving for a couple of hours to get a half-day's hunting done on crowded State Park land and now he's hit the mother lode and there are deer peering in the bedroom window. You can't walk the property without a herd or two snorting at you. My first trip to a deer camp, I felt like I was leaving the bullpen and getting the call up to the Big Show. It ended up being far from the expectation, but I still had those ideas.

Even though I don’t quite understand, new guy is lucky to have you.

Todd

You'd be surprised how many young men my sons have started grooming for deer camp only to have them wimp out or weasel out. The biggest issues are

a) Hunter Ed? Who needs that?
b) Licenses? Tags? Why don't you just let me come on your tags? I'm not paying that kind of money.
c) Seasons? I'm coming out when the weather is warm, screw this November crap! You're the landowner; what you says goes.
d) Who needs to read the rules? Rules are for wussies.


. . .or you get some bizarre story about previous hunting experiences that sound like they came from the State Police blotter. Thankfully, my sons have been doing all the Triage and saving me the hassles.
All I can say is that my sons' generation, as far as city kids go, is woefully lacking in basic hunting skills and sensitivities. Either that or they're so addicted to video games they can't leave the couch. We have invited a good 2 dozen of their friends for camping and shooting. Even the shooters haven't a clue.

NewGuy is the first honest prospect in a decade.

One note: Issue A washes out about 90%. Kentucky now allows a one year waiver on Hunter Ed. The idea is try-it-before-you-buy-it. In one of my few edicts as patriarch, I said nobody hunts with out a pink card. The reason is that completing Hunter Ed shows a commitment as well as a certain level of competency. If you won't spend a weekend learning basic gun safety, why should we be responsible for teaching it?

I agree totally... shows where the OP's and others in the camps priorities are.... on themselves.

Sounds like your son's need to learn how to pick better friends...

I'm sorry. I'm not really following you. There's nothing we all want more than the new guy to go home happy with his freezer full with a lot of good stories and hopefully a nice rack. If he gets the new camp record, that would be awesome. That's the honest truth to it. I don't know which thread you've been reading, but it is not this one.

Sako:
As to my sons' choices in friends, it's more about who they got thrown in with in their suburban schools. You try and make friends as best you can. The problem is that there are just darn few opportunities anymore. I did my best so they wouldn't grow up as mall rats; that's why I bought the farm. I have to say that the majority of the friends they've made are good people, but darn few have had any sense when it came to hunting. It's all about what they've seen on TV and how hunting gets portrayed in video games. NewGuy is different. He's from a hunting family that moved into #2 son's district late. He's been hunting on his own for a decade and has kept it on the down-low so as to not raise a fuss. Frankly, it's not much better in my generation. I was the only one of my peers that ever tried hunting, and I didn't get into it until after college. Most folks around me that hear hunting think Elmer Fudd or else some psychopath.



EDIT: I went back and reread the thread from the start wondering how in blazes anyone would come of with the idea that we're a bunch of narcissists. I think I may see things a bit differently now. Maybe I can explain.

1) The incident at the neighbors. Back in 2003, we had a new camp spring up on our northern boundary. 100 acres, 8 hunters. Nice guys. The owner/patriarch and I became friends. The camp was all extended family. That year, I nailed a really nice buck in the morning and took it into the processor. I was done for the season. It was a big deer, and I didn't have freezer space for more than one. We were all watching as the camp to the north came out. There was a big whoop and holler. Somebody had nailed a big one. I went up the road to see. As I stated, this fellow had been given the best spot on the property, overlooking my fenceline, and managed to nail the most spectacular buck I'd ever seen-- turrets, stickers, point on points on points-- the works. This was his first time out. The gun was borrowed. I talked to the guy. His response? What' the big deal? It's just a damn deer. He went back that night and left the carcass at the camp. He couldn't be bothered. He never hunted again. The owner had the head mounted and it was the centerpiece in his living room. However, the whole camp was cheesed and me along with it. The problem wasn't that the guy had been successful-- I think this is where folks here misinterpretted. It's that the guy couldn't understand the importance of what he'd done. This had just been a big boring afternoon to him. He never hunted again after that. It cast a serious pall over that camp. I don't think anyone there ever really got over it. 10 years on, they were still talking about it. Most of them hunted elsewhere after that and only used the cabin to sleep. The bottom line in all this-- the reason I included it, is because I've seen how a new guy could really destroy a camp in just one visit. The fellow we're bringing in is nothing like that turd. However, as patriarch, I'm on notice: A NewGuy at camp is an auspicious event. We all hope this is the start of a decades-long relationship. We want it to start off right.

2) Excluding NewGuy from the Opener. Look, I'm the Patriarch. I started this thing. I've got to ask myself: If I were doing this for the first time, would I really want to be thrown into the middle of it? We have barely enough time for ourselves on The Opener. On the other hand, if I had a chance to come in quietly on Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon and get some quality time with the guys, some of whom already have their tags filled, would I have a better experience? In our case, I make no bones about it. We're a bunch of serious cervid serial killers. Friday night to Sunday Afternoon it's about hunting hard, getting up to your elbows in deer gore and running to the processor and not letting up until night. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's not that we're selfish. We're focused. We have to be. If we get a tag filled on Saturday or Sunday, the heat's off for the next 10 days or more. We can take a doe to top off the freezer whenever we please. Rather than put NewGuy's head to spinning right off, I'd rather see him breeze in, get settled, and go out rested. When he nails one, I want to be able to throw everything I can at retrieving the carcass, and not have him sitting down in the bottom of a ravine wondering what to do next. On The Opener, he'd be sleeping on a couch or on an airmattress. Sunday, he'll have at least one bunk open, and he'll have it for 5 nights straight before we have to figure something else out. As this point, I'm not really sure how many days he'll be able to spend-- I don't think he knows his work schedule, but weekends are at a premium for him. Mid-week will be easier for him to swing with work. As far as the game is concerned, Opening Weekend is chaos. Deer are running off other properties onto ours. Shots are rushed. You have to be on your game. By Monday, the shooting has pretty much stopped. The deer are more in their normal routine. It's much more laid back. The chances of success for a newbie go way up.

I just don't see what you're concerned about on opening day. What you describe in (2) is what has happened to 12 year olds on the Pa. opener for years. They all survived. If you can take a doe anytime, then when the New Guy gets a deer on opening day, why can't you leave your stand, go help him and then go back to your stand? That's what the old timers that I started to hunt with did. And so what if he has to sleep on the couch? Who sleeps the night before the opener anyhow? And the next night, you're so tired you can sleep standing up!

I really think you are overthinking this whole thing, that's all. But if New Guy's weekend time is screwy anyhow, well maybe your plan is good but not for the reasons you give. At least not in my opinion.

Dale

Dale, you make really good points. That's precisely what we do (more precisely what I do) on the Opener. I really have not been able to enjoy an Opener to myself, by myself since. . . yikes! 2008(?) It's always something. As soon as I hear a shot from a particular direction, I know the walkie-talkie is going to go off. The truck will be by to pick me up, and that's it until the afternoon. I'd just as soon not have NewGuy feel obligated to drop what he's doing to help one of us pull a deer out. Me? That's kind of my job in life anymore. I'm not complaining; this is how being a patriarch rolls. This year is going to all the more so. SuperCore's looking at 80. Moose is still partially paralyzed on his left side. Angus is working 6 days a week and needs to fill his tags quick and skeedaddle back to town. Hopefully we'll get some tags filled Saturday and Sunday and the rest of week 1 is wide open.

We have a self-recovery system set up. I think 2008 was also the last year I schlepped a large buck into the truck bed unaided. We've had several iterations. The latest is the rig SuperCore bought after his bypass surgery. It's a deer L-E-Vator. It makes it so one guy can get a carcass into the back of the Silverado without much sweat. We also have a winch for pulling them out of the ravines. When I tag a deer, regardless of size, I can walk back to the house, grab the truck, bring it out, and pull right up to the carcass and have it back at the meatpole without any assistance. Me? I'm 62. SuperCore needs help not matter what. Moose will need help. Angus can carry them on his back, but his time at camp is limited. Again, if things go to plan, NewGuy will get all that help and won't feel like he has to pitch in.

I'm sure that any PA 12 year old knows his place, and there's a bit of apprenticeship understood. But this is not a 12 yr old. Here we are faced with the ultimate Buckless Youper. 28 and ain't been kissed. He just needs to get his cherry popped. He doesn't need to spend a weekend dealing with our dead animals and our gut buckets and all that. He'll get 90% of The Opener spirit if he can last through to weekend two, and by then he's hopefully fully blooded. The party starts, and now he's a fully fledged Cervid Serial Killer.

Why do you have to pull the deer out right when you shoot them? I can see going and gutting it out, but why not leave it lay til mid morning so everyone can get a hunt in?

Even if I needed help, I certainly wouldn't bother anyone to help until lunch time or even the end of the day.

You're absolutely right. NO LONG TALKS!

We use a processor that is a half-hour away, and they tend to fill up on The Opener. They usually cap it at 100 carcasses. That is the big limitation.

Most of our shots are before 0900, but if we're going to get there in time, we usually have to hussle. The fastest method is when we drop one in the middle of the field. That happens about half the time. In that case, all we have to do is back the truck up, load it and take it to the meatpole for dressing. I'm going to say our fastest is something like 2 hour turnaround from shot to delivery to the processor and that was with 2 deer taken 15 minutes apart. The processor will often times fill up by Noon, so let's say a deer gets shot at 0900. At best we have an hour of slack. Not getting to the processor in time isn't the end of the world. I've kept a deer overnight. This is just the optimal way to deal with it. On the Opener we try to get at least two people involved, so it's often the shooter who goes for the truck and often times it's me that they pick up to go get the deer. I'm in on at least half the pickups during season, because I know the schtick better than anyone else. Moose and Angus know the drill, but Moose is lame on the left side. SuperCore can drive the truck, but he's usually spent. They all usually let me hunt until about 1000, and then somebody comes and gets me. By then, I'm walking out to meet them halfway. My stand for The Opener is the farthest out of any.

If the deer runs down into one of the many ravines, things change dramatically. The shooter guts the carcass where it lays while somebody gets the truck and runs the winch down. Recovery takes a good long while. By 1100 most everyone has decided to come in, and we've got more hands involved. We then adjourn to the processor with a carcass or two and eat lunch there. The place is usually packed with orange hats. A good time is had by all.

The other big limitation is the afternoon hunt. Let's say we get closed-out at the primary processor. The next closest is an hour away from the first. Delays stack up. I've hussled my buns on The Opener and still been late getting out to my blind for the afternoon sit. Ideally, I like to be back out by 1500. Sometimes that slips later. I've had several years where I didn't get much hunting in on Saturday, but this is what it is to be the patriarch. I don't intend on having NewGuy be burdened. I want him hunting and not worrying about all this. By second weekend, we've much more time and still have the same kind of fun. The deer are still there. In fact a lot of our best bucks have come well after that first weekend. I've also put a buck down before sunrise on The Opener, walked back to get the truck and been sitting on the porch when the rest of the crew shows up.

Why not hunt all day? There is a second rush of deer as the Orange Army mount their ATV's and drive in @0900. That usually means we get a flurry of shots at 1000 or thereabouts. After that, there is nearly no action until well after lunch. I'm 62, and all day sits just aren't my thing anymore. Normally we switch venues and I usually switch rifles. On the Opener, I'm usually in a stand in the morning with my Savage 99. In the evening the deer are usually out browsing in the pastures and I'll switch to my DX rig.

So what happens in your deer camp is your business and doesn’t effect us at all. Other than you posting on the World Wide Web about it. You have given some great, thought out conversation about this but one thing I hope you’ll learn from it, like it or not, the “World” is not in your corner on the treatment of “NewGuy”. You are definitely the odd man out with your thought process here. I’m quite a bit younger than you. Turning 39 here in a couple days. I was a hunting guide for a lot of years and I’ve personally hunted in 14 different states, in three different countries on two different continents and I feel confident in saying that not one person in any of those circles I have been around would be handling NewGuy like you are. Again, your deer camp your rules but by and large, and on a scientific fact base level, most of the world thinks you’re in the wrong. This thread is proof of that.

I can understand to a degree where you’re coming from, I will never understand the total dis-inclusion of NewGuy from opening weekend which sounds like a lot of fun, even though hectic. We can’t wrap our heads around you being so tight with your people but being so conditional and not even giving a chance for NewGuy to prove his metal (or grit). All the scheduling conflicts, other reasons, one including you and your people would be very unforgiving and spiteful if he happens to kill a bigger buck than the rest of you, is sorry at best and seems like an attempt to smooth the world over in us thinking you aren’t this over bearing jerk “Patriarch” we kind of think you are...

In my head, and I know I’m not alone, the conversation should have went like this. Forthright and clear with no room for personal interpretation on your expectations. “Look NewGuy, You’ve proven yourself up until now, that’s why we/I are welcoming you to camp. Opening weekend is hectic. Bad hectic. We and I aren’t going to have time to baby sit you. If we have to, it will really hamper our hunt which only comes around once a year. It is a big deal to us and we aren’t getting any younger. You are also low man on the totem pole for seniority so you are going to be hunting spots nobody else wants and sleeping on the couch or in your truck until a bunk opens up later in the week. We have expectations of you to hunt an area/stand and stay put there. If you kill a deer, here are the rules and what you need to do. If you happen to kill the biggest buck in the woods, we are going to give you crap about it, but that’s just because we are jealous and envious so appreciate the hell out of it if it happens. You have an opportunity here to really show us what you’re made of, and you have an opportunity to really screw it up. If you aren’t okay with any of that or don’t think you can handle it, it might be best you sit the first couple days out but we’d love to have you around to help where needed in the skinning shed or dragging deer. The more you are around us, the more you’ll learn “our” ways which will really be great for all of us.” and more with the understanding from everyone in camp that the new guy has a lot to learn. You all should be willing to help teach with patience.

Again, none of this matters to us in the end but I’ll bet if you would have typed something along those lines, there wouldn’t be 7 pages of the world giving you crap about the treatment of NewGuy.

Todd

I can't understand why you would bring your deer back to the "meat pole", gut it and NOT quarter it and put it into a cooler? Why bother with a processor or for that matter, why not bring the quartered deer to the processor when it's convenient? I leave meat on ice in coolers for a week or 2 before I trim it out. Pieces for grinding get stockpiled in the freezer and then I grind it when my hunting slows down. Fuggh bringing deer to a processor

I learned gutting, etc. from a guy from Alabama. I frankly didn't know any better, and when I did try it in the field, I found it was a lot more hassle. We throw a chain around the neck and hoist, and all the guts go in a big tub without any coaxing. I've since learned that if your season occurs in warm weather, this method is more common. We use a processor as a time saver. Most of us at camp work, and we have to maximize the time afield. Probably when I retire and I'm living down there, I'll stop using the processor. However, it's just easy to drop them off and get it done and pay someone. We've only had a couple bad experiences with processors, and we have enough close by that there is competition in price and service. I know I'm not going to change minds, and that's fine. When I got online 30 years ago, I found out other people had different methods of doing things.

Let me be clear: if NewGuy got the camp record or the state record, we'd be cheering.

You can think of me as an overbearing jerk all you want. Truth is that I want NewGuy to have as good an experience as possible, and there is nothing in what I have said or done that would indicate that we're anything like what you're claiming. He is not a plebe that has to prove himself. We're not going to haze him. We're not going to give him the worst accomodations and make him live with it. He will be an honored guest and I intend to give him as much of my attention as he needs. In the little time I had with him over Labor Day, he was asking a lot of questions. They were good questions, but I can tell he's not quite sure of himself in this endevor. My guess is that NewGuy is going to come down and get his cherry popped within a few days of hunting, and walk away feeling like he's found heaven. Maybe. Maybe not. I do know that we're to do everything we can to make it happen.

Now, if you think that's overbearing, that's fine. I did pretty much the same thing with SuperCore when he first came out. SuperCore was ex-Airborne, but he'd never hunted. He was an avid shooter, but he'd never levelled anything at a living being. He was my boss at Cincinnati State when I taught there. The biggest mistake I made with SuperCore-- by his own estimate-- was leaving him too much on his own during The Opener. He really didn't get a feel for things until we spent some time in the 2-man blind that I built for me and my sons when they were younger. It opens front and back and the hunters sit back to back. You are hunting on your own, but you can carry on a conversation. If NewGuy wants to do that, I'll be happy to oblige, but we'll start off with whatever he wants. We actually have several venues like that now. I built them so Moose or I can take the Mooselette out. We also have a few setups where 2 hunters safely can hunt fairly close to one another and still be hunting completely different structures and animals. My only ground rules will be to pick a blind or stand and stay there. Let folks know if you're up and moving and don't stray too close to the property lines.

I also think you and a few others are really overestimating NewGuy's abilities. I've had a fairly recent hunt with one of the guys on here-- a frequent poster. Were he to come down to hunt, I could pretty much point him towards the head and the coffee maker and that would be it. He's done bigger hunts than me in many more places. Right now, I'd go anywhere in the world with him if the situation was right, and I think he'd say the same about me. It was my first hunt away from the farm in 20 years. I'm sure he'd be able to rattle off examples of my shagginess, but we both had a good time, and I appreciate his putting up with me on my first trip out in ages.

Why would anyone hunt the middle of the property on opening morning? I hate running deer off our property, or educating them and it's never a bad idea to keep an eye on your neighbors. Safety is my number one priority, so I don't allow anyone to get down and walk around or look for a deer untill everyone is finished hunting. Sounds to me like the deer must be plentiful where your hunting. Good hunting and stay safe.

In the center is the safest place for when the shooting starts. By "center" I mean an area that is probably 2/3's of the property and include all the places that make retrieval easiest. We stay off the property line through most of season, mainly so we don't get shot. However, we have gobs of deer that are moving off our neighbors and they congregate well away from the line. The neighbors are doing all the ATV stuff and drives and still hunting. Deer outnumber humans by a fair margin.

Shaman - your answers are well thought out and considerate of New Guy and your regulars.

I was introduced to hunting by an old italian gent who started me slow, too, and took care to see I was not overwhelmed or making dumb mistakes in front of the regulars.

I will never be able to express how much I owe him and his generosity.

Shaman, I'm with you 100%. You bought the land, paid for it and pay the taxes. It's not like you took a large sum from New Guy and then changed the rules on him. Also don't you love it that people are telling you when you should hunt on YOUR property, what you should do with YOUR meat etc. Probably they think New Guy is entitled to be there on opening day. Isn't that the attitude now? You don't have to earn anything-you're entitled to it. I think it's pretty nice of you to save New Guy $$$$$ that a lease would cost.

You're making this sound like a magical place.

We hardly ever see the neighbors and they hardly ever see us. It's not that we're unfriendly. It's just that way. There have been incidents at the property lines over the years. I got shot at accidentally back in 2004 during ML season while I was out looking for a deer. There was another near-tragedy a bout a decade ago. My neighbor to the north caught a guy to our East putting a pop-up blind up in the back corner we all share, directly in the path of his shooting lane. It was legal. The guy was sitting with his back to the fence, but a richochet would have been tragic.

We've got a couple of venues that we hunt that are within 100 yards of the line, but they're all uphill firing down to creek bottoms and anyone shooting our way would have to be deliberately firing into the air across a ravine. My Opening Day stand is the closest-- about 80 yards. However, the stand is on the other side of a big tree from the fenceline and I know where the guys who have the lease all hunt and its nowhere near us.

Got invited to a high level ranch once. Allowed two WT bucks I shot an 8 point & a 10. I was never invited back. It was definitely Redneck mentality on the veteran's part.