I ran the numbers on the 5/8 ounce BRI 20 Gauge sabot slugs at 1,400 fps and it appears that they should produce the same approximate level of performance as the 45-70 405 grain factory load. Few hunters would think twice about shooting deer with the 45-70 405 grain combo, but don't think highly of shotgun slugs.

I am looking at buying a rifled barrel for a Mossberg 500 that a friend's son is shooting. The boy is currently shooting deer with a smoother bore barrel and Foster style slugs. The shotgun he is using has a vented rib with a bead front sight and it appears that he has hit multiple deer, but recovered none of them. I don't have any experience with rifled barrel shotgun, mostly Brennekes, and would like to hear back from people who have experience with the 20 gauge BRI style slugs on deer.

I tried Federals version and it shot very poorly in my rifled Remington barrel. Still have several boxes. Think my barrels twist might be too fast for it. I did a lot of testing with that barrel and it's favorite turned out to be the Brenneke KO slug. Worked really well on the several deer I took with it. I may test Winchesters new "foster" style slug that has it's plastic wad integral with the slug. Past that and all the money I have tossed into saboted slugs I have yet to shoot at a deer farther than the same gun with it's smooth bore barrel could have handled. This said I have killed more deer with my smoothbore barrel with an IC choke tube. This gun is usually topped with a 3 power scope. Have to say every deer hit with the Winchester Foster slugs has left plenty of blood and for a short distance to a dead deer. Maybe the kid just needs better sights. This prompted me to look for some more of the Brennekes and lo and behold Midway is sold out of everything.

I always shot Reminton’s 2 3/4” and have used 3” in my shotguns with rifled barrels and scoped. I currently shoot a Browning Silver, 20 gauge with a 4x scope.
At 50 yards the group is excellent. Only shot one dear beyond 50 yards here in CT.

I had good results w smoothbore 500 in 12 ga scoped using WW fosters. 2 3/4", all w same lot #. Solid 100 yard rig i took to 150 a couple times. One didnt even dent the offside rib cage so that bothered me. 150 was max and proly should set rhe limit at less.

Went 870 rifled bore 12 and scope, 12 ga and 2 3/4. WW BRI style slug, called High Impact Supreme.

It really put the whammy on em. No concerns w 150 yard shots.

Got no experience w 20 ga. BIL used the cheape4 WW BRI and bloodtrails sucked. So he started head shooting em

All under 75 yards, rifled cantilever bbl.

Kid w good eyes might pile the deer w a rifle sighted bbl.
Smooth or rifled.
M500 seem to outshoot the 870s in smoothbore.

The WW BRI shot well, as did the High Impact Supremes.
But they cheaper silver box BRI slugs just whistled through.

Punched through the chest and the BT were not great.
Found the deer without much effort. Get some splatters around 40 yards or so down the trail.

The high impact version, deer usually down very close to impact site. Crumpled a 7 pointer in rhe rain at 90 yards.
Went over and felt bad.......massive blood, frony of deer looked like hed been painted

Folded a few w mid height double lung hits. Pretty impressive.

If the 20 ga BRI is like the old 12 BRI.in design and material, id use something else on deer.

The cheaper slugs we did use, to practice or rough zero a new scope. The HI Supremes were about double the cost of the other and not as easily found.

Sucked to buy 10.boxes from one lot number too $$$

I think I’d not look to the old “hourglass” shaped BRI’s and look to these or some other more contemporary designs. I still have several boxes of 12’s, I think originally from Federal, from the early ‘80’s and never got what I considered satisfactory performance.

For me the shape/design was just counterintuitive.

Of course his hitting and losing deer could be due to other factors also.

https://www.federalpremium.com/shot...trophy-copper-sabot-slug/11-P209+TC.html

There was a time when all I used was 20 and 12 gauge for deer and hogs. Forster slugs and buckshot. Never lost one, nor was tracking required. Neither gun had sights other than the bead and both were predictable so far as POI went. I moved on to rifles because I wanted to, not because of need.

"The shotgun he is using has a vented rib with a bead front sight and it appears that he has hit multiple deer, but recovered none of them."

Appears to have hit multiple deer?? Has he spent any time at a range seeing if he can hit deer vital zone size targets at the distances he's attempting shots? Does he know how to find a blood trail? Has a known competent shooter checked the performance of the shotgun? Sure, a smoothbore with bead isn't the greatest sight setup, but have you ruled out other "operator error" issues? My apologies if this seems insulting - but the impression I get from the limited info is you're talking about a relatively young, inexperienced hunter that may not understand the best use and limits of the gun he has.

If he is shooting them with a 20 gauge slug and not finding them it is no fault of the slug. Any deer I have seen shot with any style of slug from a 12 or 20 gauge was dead quick, fast and in a hurry.

Sounds like he needs more trigger time or buck fever is getting to him and he is not making good killing shots.

As far as slugs go I had my best accuracy in an Encore 20 gauge with Remington Copper Solids, I believe these may be discontinued but not for sure.

What I learned with slugs was to try 3 or 4 different brands and styles. When I did this there were clear differences in accuracy. Like I said the Copper Solids were best shooting 1 1/2 groups at 100 and the worst were Hornady SST shooting an 8-10" group with the others I tried falling somewhere in between.

When I was a young lad I thought I was smart and tried lead slugs in a rifled slug barrel and they shoot REALLY well so I used them for a couple of years.

Then I tried to get all the lead out of that barrel - OMG !! Chips of lead were coming out.

SABOTs for rifled barrels folks...

You've gotten good advice so far.

I'm a good 20 years past my last time taking a shot at a deer with a slug. I've been in Kentucky and shooting centerfire rifle mostly.

What I can say is that, back in my Buckeye days, slug in shotguns were always a bit of art and a bit of science, a willingness to empty your wallet, and a whole lot of perseverance.

I'll tell you for sure: if you connect with a deer with a 12 or 20 GA slug at a reasonable range, the deer should go down and stay down.

I hunted with a smoothbore 12 and then a rifled Mossy 500. I'd start as cheap as I could go, find a load that held to a pieplate at a given range and then go buy as much of that lot as I could. If I could keep them touching at 50 yards shooting offhand, I thought I was blessed. I know if I'd kept on trying I could have pushed the range further, but I was hunting out of my bowhunting blinds and 50 yards was plenty.

Sabots always seemed to be the touchiest. They'd work out of one guy's gun and not the next guy's. They'd work this year, but not the next. I finally settled on cheap Remington Sluggers and some Brennekes for the Mossy 500 and let it go at that.

As to the boy's woes, I can tell you, that having raised two sons to the sport, young guys can get really bum results. THey're prone to flinching. They're prone to buck fever. They mis-judge effective range. They're prone to all sorts of things. That's why there are yute seasons and yute regulations.

You can check for flinch and eye closing by testing the kid with having him pull the trigger on an empty chamber. If he doesn't know it's empty, he'll flinch, and you'll be able to see it.

Buck fever is harder to cure. However, having a calming hand close by is the best tonic.

Of course, a rifled barrel won't cure any of these. I'd get to the bottom of why the yute is not recovering his deer before proceeding.

Before rifled barrels were available from the factory I sent a Winchester M/25 to E.R. Shaw for one of their rifled barrels. When I got the gun back from Shaw I purchased a couple of boxes of every slug load on the market at that time. Range testing prove that Federal sabot loads with the Hydra-shok tipped slug were the most accurate. I used that load for many years, it never failed to produce a DRT, I can only recall one buck that required a second shot.

My experience is with 12 gauge, but I have found that some rifled barrels are VERY finicky as to which brand of sabot slug they will shoot accurately. With the price of sabot slugs, it can get a bit costly finding which shoots well. My advice is that once you find one that shoots accurately, stick with it and don't go chasing after other brands/styles. Your wallet and your body will thank you.

You are going about it backwards. First get your rifled barrel. Then buy 4 or 5 boxes of different brands of sabot slugs. Shoot 3 of each and see which groups best. Then go buy as many boxes of that type as you can afford. One comment on BRI slugs when I tried them 20 years ago they were too hard and didn't expand much. I killed my first 20 or so deer with a 20 gauge Ithica deerslayer with smooth bore shooting the old pumpkin ball slugs. For a youngster even a 20 gauge with slugs packs a pretty good wallop. Get a good SVL recoil pad. Make sure the trigger is. Not an 8 or 9 lb pull. Put a low power cheap scope on it will help. Good hunting

Not my kid and not a relative, so I'm not in a position to make decisions.

The kid's father seems reluctant to accept my offer of a rifled shotgun barrel for his son's Mossberg 500.

Since I don't have a lot of experience shooting deer with shotgun slugs, I figured that in this universe of hunters and shooters a few people would be willing to share their experience with me, thanks to those of you who have.

Is he restricted to using a slug due to government restrictions? If not you could just lend him a rifle.

And to answer your question more directly, I’ve killed deer with both 45-70 and rifles slugs. The slugs were out of a smooth bite with rifle sights and shoots reasonableness well up to 100. Missed a bear at 150(not a hunting situation, ethics not a consideration) though.

Restricted by government regulations, shotguns only, no rifles.

Ive shot and killed stuff with 20s, 16s and 12s, Fosters, Brennekes, BRIs, and most of the popular sabots (even Activ slugs in 12 and 20) and some old Remington Pumpkin Ball paper slugs.

Hit well, all work and kill with ease. The hitting with some of them is the most difficult part.

Regardless of gauge, if you go rifled, try to get one of the defunct Hastings replacements if you can find one.
Remington and Mossberg rifled barrels have crappy sights and are a bit rough, meaning they plastic foul, which messes with accuracy.
The best bet is with a handgun bullet (45 in 20s and 50s in 12s) saboted slugs. Most of the makers (I bought a case of Winchester PTGolds years ago) will work decently to 100 yards.
The BRI styles shot well in Hastings barrels, but are kind of on their way out. They rarely expand to any degree and usually rivet a bit. 45-50 caliber holes, depending on 12 or 20.

Smoothbores need fed a Foster or Original Brenneke. Rifled sights arent needed, but the gun needs to be shot and verified on paper to direct them to the same spot. Not doing so will lead to poorly hit animals or not hitting at all. No good.
Ive never had a slug hit where the bead was directed, ever. They always required some Kentucky ele, windage and usually both.

Dont clean the smoothbore, unless you like re-sighting every time.
Fosters tend to shoot better than Brennekes, but the Original Brenneke with the felt wad is a nifty killer when it hits. Its also a bit harder, alloy wise.
Both will leave lead skid marks in certain places in a smooth bore; removing that lead fouling will require (to hit a consistent POI again) a "re-seasoning", so I always left them fouled.

Ive never had 3" of either 20 or 12 shoot better, whether smooth or rifled. I shot stuff with them, but on paper they usually give up accuracy for racket and recoil.

What choke does the barrel have? If removable, use a more open choke such as improved or cylinder rather then modified and especially not full.

While not ideal, the setup that he has is certainly capable in the right hands. How old is the kid and how much experience does he have with firearms?

If possible, spend some time with him and "pattern" his gun . Learn how it shoots and set practical range limits. Use a paper target with a full size deer printed on it for familiarity.

Is he recoil sensitive or flinch from muzzle blast? Perhaps a better recoil pad and hearing protection?

Getting buck fever? A number of things can work against a young shooter that be corrected with a bit of time and guidance.

Another option is perhaps a red dot scope (if legal in his state and father is agreeable?)

Lots of sound advice in this thread. HawkI definitely speaks the truth.
I’ve hunted with slugs for 30 years, still do. I traded a bow for a shotgun for close range hunting.
When it comes to smooth bores, improves cylinder choke is the best.
I like Brenneke green lightnings in mine. And just like Hawkeye said- they don’t hit dead on and never have- they’re consistently about 2 inches high & 1 inch to the left. Easy to compensate for.

Rifled barrels are the same- very picky and slugs will shoot a little different.

If I was shopping for a new slug gun today... for 12 gauge, I’d find a Hastings Cantilever rifled barrel then buy the shotgun that fits it.
For 20, I’d get one of those H&R single shots, or a bolt action.

In that case, I’d buy him a bunch of Brennekes and call it good. Fosters are deadly in the right spot, but are fragile. Brennekes will cut a nice hole and stay together. Somewhere I have a target shot with my son’s 870 SP with Brenneke Black Magics and the IC tube. Three shots in about 3” at 100 yards with a scope in a straddle mount.

Probably a one-off, but my cousin bought one of those H&Rs, then spent a couple hundred bucks trying to find something it would shoot straight. Years later he bought one of the Browning A-Bolts and slammed one in OH at 150 yards. They ain’t cheap, but seem to be the beans in a factory gun.

His family raised over 1,000,000 bushels of grain in 2020, so they can afford to buy this 12 year old boy whatever tools he might need. My position is analogous to a consultant, assessing the situation and offering recommendations. The boy's dad is busy moving grain, doing field work, and cleaning/repairing equipment, so I offered to do the leg work, but he seems reluctant to do anything or have me do anything, so I've decided to step out and let the boy continue to feed the coyotes.

see if you can find a smoothbore barrel with sights , and have him stick with plain old Forster slugs

or possbly mount a scope to his existing gun

from what you post , I sort of doubt the boys dad is going to invest the time and money to really get the good out of sabot slugs


seen many deer shot with 20 gauge forsters......they kill very well

I think he could see a huge improvement in accuracy with the installation of a set of Williams Slugger Sights. I use them on VR barrels for turkeys and change out the choke for slugs. Three inch 3 shot groups at 100 yards with Win Super x 2 3/4 slugs is doable. Federal Tru-ball slugs do just as well.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001U9WI2...re-pcomp-wm-8&ref=nav_ya_signin&

A cantilever barrel makes a pump action slug gun, one mean deer killing machine...

Our area used to be slug gun only, then changed to all rifle.

I still prefer my slug gun when Im hunting the woods. Hunting our fields, sure, I grab the rifle..... you want to see a deer regularly drop in its tracks, hit it with a sabot from a slug gun.

I have a lot of slug guns, a lot.... and one of the best I have is the cheapest, an 870 with a cantilever barrel shooting what was copper solids (discontinued) and now Accutips (probably discontinued)....

You can make a Mossberg 500 just as good with that barrel. The tighter the twist, try the faster slugs.

I have shot a BPS smooth bore, and a mossburg 12 gauge rifled barrel. And a mossburg bolt action 12 gauge.

None were that impressive.

A savage 220 slug gun...........NOW THATS IMPRESSIVE. But it won't have the thump of a 12 ga.

It is freak crazy accurate!

Harvested a whitetail this year at 165 yards! It is a weapon I trust to shoot!

I had great luck with federal tru-ball slugs in a smooth bite and Barnes expander/copper solid sabots in a rifle barrel

I’m with Iron_ghost on the Hastings barrel with a scope. I too started with a smooth bore and a bead... I killed a few but also lost a few. A 12 ga deer slug kicks hard when your a 10-12 year old kid. Add a pounding heart rate and it’s really hard to hit anything. I got a new barrel, still smooth bore but with sights. Things got better but still too dicey for my liking. A few years later I bought a Hastings for my 870 and put a 1-4 leupold on it. WOW! 2 3/4” WW BRI’s shot clover leafs at 75 yards and no deer has fallen out of sight since. About 15 years ago I shot every sabot 12ga slug I could find. BRI was still the most accurate in my gun. My cousin has a rifled mossberg barrel and his results have been the same. Best of luck, Ben