My boys have probably killed 20 to 25 whitetail deer with 243 Winchester and 85 grain partition over the last ten or so years. When they first started killing deer with 243 I was amazed at how well it kill and even posted about how impressed I was with the little bullet. The more they use it the less impressed I am with it (deer always run even when one or both shoulders broke, skimpy to nonexistent blood trails, etc).

The only load they’ve ever used on game is Nosler 85 grain partition loaded to right at 3,000 FPS in a Remington model 7 with 18 1/2 inch barrel.

Several years ago I bought 1,000 of partition 2nds cheap.


I realize my issues started when I started using the new lot of the partitions 2nds. Anyone think it’s possible that this lot of partitions aren’t expanding? Or maybe after they don’t have enough base left to leave good blood trails after the front blows off? Or is it simply bad luck?

Thanks

It’s junk. Sell it to me.

I think you’re arguing with your own success.

Only way to know is a handful more hunts with firsts. Or wet newspaper tests or something similar.

You may have answered your own question.

("I realize my issues started when I started using the new lot of the partitions 2nds.")

There had to be a reason they culled that batch and sold them cheap as seconds. anything is possible. I guess you wont know for sure until you do some testing. I would try to find some partitions (not seconds) and load them up and see If your results are any better.

Bad bullets. I will buy em.

PM me.

Placement trumps all else, I'd bet little less than perfect placement there than bad bullets. You did ask..mb

I have seen many deer run quite a ways from a perfectly placed shoe, and I've seen deer drop in their tracks from a shot that was not so perfect. Each situation is different.

Try the 95 gr nbt perhaps.
When something works but then doesn't work after you change something, then look at what you changed.

Like saying you have a hammer that doesn't work worth a crap after buying discounted nails, then blaming the hammer.

There is no magic bullet for the .243 but the 100 gr SGK 95 gr. Horny S.P. will do the trick in a hand load, Federal Blue Box 90 gr. or 95 gr. ?? can't remember which, works great also, It Ain't the ARROW it's the Indian, when using a .243. Rio7

No cartridge or bullet can or will, guarantee that you get a bloodtrail 100% of the time.

I repeat.....NONE!

Stick with what you've been shooting and don't overthink it.

I’ve never seen a deer “run” with both shoulders broken more than a few feet… and that just hindquarters-driven plowing ahead. Are you losing deer or just having to find them? If, up to recently, they’ve been dropping in their tracks and now they’re not it says to me you’ve been breaking shoulders or spine and now you’re not. Have you been examining the bullet path after gutting and skinning them? As someone mentioned above, often well-hit deer don’t leave much blood trail, there are a lot of factors involved in whether or not you get a good blood trail.

My problem with the 243 is that many time folks use the absolute lightest “varmint” bullet to deer hunt with. Then wonder why it doesn’t kill as effectively as their friend Bubba’s 243. I’ve helped a ton of folks blood trail deer shot with a 243. Use a bullet property designed for the job at hand and, bust that oil pump and you won’t have any problems.

I haven’t used the .243 a bunch but enough. I was very skeptical of it when I was younger. My buddies wife shot a buck with one and it bled as much as anything we’d shot with a .308 or a 30-06.

Colorado has probably used one more than anyone I know and he’s used it successfully on many critters.

Shots placed high in the chest or shoulder, above the center line/curve of the body take longer to provide a blood trail, regardless of what you hit them with. Might not even get one if the deer falls fairly quickly, and they can travel pretty far in short order. A hit low in the chest takes out the heart, major vessels, and gets lungs too, and the blood flow starts quickly because the holes are low and the chest doesn’t have to fill up. Partition exit holes are small because the front end blows off, leaving the shank. If the innards are soup, the bullet expanded. A conventional soft-point may give you a big burping exit wound, but also may not give one at all, even in a larger heavier caliber. No deer I’ve hit low has gone more than 100 yards, most fell within 50 feet, and Andrea Bocelli could follow the blood trails with one eye closed.

If you want to shoot ‘em high, go high enough to break the spine and drop them right there, but that gets tricky with angled shots.

I have not had an issue with a 243 not killing especially with today’s bullets. I use Barnes TSX or TTSX. The only issue I had was one TSX that shed its petals from a point blank (less than 2 yards) shot. The shank and petals all went into the deer’s heart and did not exit the deer. It ran without a blood trail, but not very far.

Yes I've seen great results with the cartridge but always with 100 grain bullets

suppose Id purchase 50 new partitions & do some water jug test to compare to your factory 2nds. If the 2nds are a problem Id suspect the lead alloy to be the problem causing either too little or too much expansion. seems like you are suspecting to little expansion.

May wish to start shooting for more surgical shot placement in the mean time. Study up on brachial plexus shot effect.

I’d use the seconds for practice and not sweat it.

What bullet performance were you looking for instead?

The boys have always had deer run after being shot with 243 very few dropped in their tracks.

We have both been losing deer and having trouble finding deer. Last year my youngest shot a big mule headed doe at about 140 yards. I was watching through my 10x Swaros and seen the bullet her. The doe ran 100-120 yards and we never found a drop of blood. The bullet hit just behind the shoulder slightly below center of her chest.

How far behind the shoulder? Get much over 3" and you're getting into liver only territory. Straight up the leg bottom 1/3 centers the lungs much better.

When I shoot for heart/lung I try for that. If they are behaving and under 100 give me a high forward shoulder/neck shot for instant kills.

Never been a fan of the cartridge my 15 yr old son has one he’s shot 2 deers with it and I used it to kill a 20” 8 pt out of all 3 deers 7 shots were used

A Partition is made so that the front expands fast, pretty violently actually.

Usually smearing all of the front portion away. The rear part, behind the Partition is what punches through, usually a small exit.

Bullet?

Placement?

I have killed probably 20 with a 243 or 6mm. Dad killed 20 or more with my 6mm, 85 grain Sierra Varminter.. My pard has killed over 50 with the 243. We never noticed them lacking provided they were shot where they were supposed to be shot and with a semi soft bullet.

100 grain Gamekings and 85 grain Sierra Varminter SP gave the quickest kills with a 95 grain Partition close behind.

80 grain Sierra Blitz Varminters are rough on em too.

Smaller calibers and railroad spike tough bullets on an animal that weighs 250# at most makes no sense.

Literally almost touching the shoulder (1/2 to one inch) behind the shoulder.

If they were blowing legs off, gut shooting or shooting them in the azz it’s not the bullets fault.

I can’t figure it out why the poor performance unless it’s simply bad luck. Nosler nots going to put thousands of partition seconds out that are no good. Can you imagine hundreds of unhappy people posting on the net.

I would expect better blood trails from a 22 WMR than what we have been getting.

It's a Partition in a smallish caliber. Don't expect bloodtrails from a .24 caliber hole. Partitions are a small diameter when expanded, it's their design.

Get that bullet into meat and/or bone for instant or very fast kills.

I don't shoot hoping for a good bloodtrail, shoot em where they live, you won't need trails.

Shoot thru that shoulder and disable the pump. Game over.

Pretty much. Pic has aiming point higher than I would want for a heart/lung shot but you get the point. Like I said, if they are within 100 yards and behaving I would be about 2" higher and to the right for an instant kill.

Wait for the 95BT to go on sale at SPS and pick some up. Shot lots of deer with them out of my 243 and never had to shoot one twice, never lost one either.

I have a pair of 243’s with 100g NPt’s 2nds that have accounted for 14 elk. I’ve been the shooter or standing beside the shooter for all of them. One cow ran 80 yds, another cow ran 40 yds and required a second round, everything else died within 30 yds, none of them fell down and died on the spot.

I’ve been using almost exclusively Partition, Ballistic Tip, and Accubond 2nds for 15+ years and have never seen any evidence of inferior performance.

Nosler is adamant 2nds are simply blemished bullets, and the unblemished bullets from the same production run go out the door as 1sts.

There is always a chance a production run of bullets with some kind of flaw made it out the door. But that would be based on bullet performance, rather how far the critter ran.

I have always been a armpit shooter when possible, but I’ve witnessed enough elk, deer, pronghorns, and one moose shot through both shoulders with an exit and still run a ways that I have never bought into the concept breaking shoulders stops critters on the spot.

With the recent batch of 2nds you’re using has the range the deer are being shot changed? I ask because I have noticed at hair burning range Partitions seen to open a lot quicker and penetrate less.

That sounds like a lung hit and no big bones or spine broken. I would expect that deer to run 100 yards or so. That high I wouldn’t expect much blood trail with anything.

95 gr ballistic tips 100 gr fusions 100 gr pro hunter

All shots less than 100 yds not impressed
The 20” 8 pt I used it on took a 95 gr ballistic tip thru the boiler and just stood there 25 yds looking 😳one more he tipped over.My boy is dead eye dick and shoots like pops he’s jumping on the 270 band wagon or 308 😉

How many hit the deer?

Did you like the Prohunter performance better than the performance of the "tougher" bullets?

Never been a fan of tough bullets and a .22 or .24 caliber on deer. Get that bullet turning loose and it flat kills.

That 95 BT is what some call "tough", the exact reason I haven't tried em.

Want a bullet that flat kills deer and most die where they stand, get some Sierra Gamekings. Yeah they are rough on meat but you don't have any rodeos and you see em go down in sight, none of this following blood BS.

Yesterday just before last light a friend at my camp popped a buck with a Game King, a 150 grain launched from a 30-06 shooting Federal ammo. Range was about 80 yards I think. Quartering on shot angle, bullet entered the onside shoulder and was found under the hide on the opposite side ribs. The jacket was peeled well back and what remained of the core was still stuck in there. It was tough on the impact side shoulder, but there was still some good meat for sausage remaining. The buck dropped straight down.

It's the Indian to a far greater extent than the arrow. Shooters are often at fault when things go awry, in my experience, but the bullet gets blamed.

I've never seen anything shot well with a 243 not die. I've never seen a Partition fail to kill an animal shot in the front half, though some animals seem to want to live more than others.

As far as deer-only hunting goes, I generally label the 243 a "big gun," with a 223 being more of a standard. I often see deer shot with 30 cals that run farther, sans spine hit.

In my experience, there is nothing wrong with Nosler seconds in terms of accuracy or terminal performance.

I've shot deer broadside through the lungs and quartering away through the lungs breaking the offside shoulder with the 85 grain BTHP Game Kings and had them run 75 - 80 yards more than once. There are no absolutes. The one shot quartering away into the off side shoulder the bullet did not exit and left no blood trail. Not the kind of performance I prefer when hunting thick cover.

I have shot a handfull of deer using the 243. All 100 grain slugs, Federal blue box factory loads, handloaded Hornady 100 btsp and Speer Grand Slams. Never lost one, never had a DRT, usually run about 50-75 yards and VERY skimpy blood trails. I still hunt with one on occasion as I like the gun but can see the advantage larger calibers provide. YMMV

I'll sometimes get a headscratcher of a terrible blood trail, even with a good exit location with a 7mm or .30cal bullet, but those are the exception, rather than the rule. When they do happen, it's often because of some tissue clogging the hole temporarily. I've had my share of hands and knees searching for blood when trailing deer shot with 6mm bullets, and while the Partition is my #1 pick there, I still had tougher trailing on average than when I used a larger caliber. Nothing is absolute, but trends are trends.

I'll also add that "dead is dead" for sure, and most lung shot deer are going to run anyway, but searching for pinpricks of blood by flashlight on pine needles in a briar thicket always sucks. I like to keep that stuff to a minimum by using a bit more rifle for hunting deer. If talking about critters of opportunity, like a hog or perhaps a deer that pops up while you are doing chores, just use whatever you've got handy, be it a .243, an AR, or even a shotgun.

The last deer I shot through the lungs was a buck from a few weeks ago at maybe 70 yards. At the shot, he ran right at me and bounded by, perhaps 10 yards from me. Looked a bit spooked and alert, but not mortally wounded (like an archery-hit lungshot). He went about another 40 yards into the brush and I heard him crash. Very minimal reaction on the deer's part. The rifle was a .35 Whelen shooting 200gr Fusions and the woods were certainly painted red for the entire run, but he still went about 100yds. Guess he didn't know he'd been shot by a "big gun".

I started off with a 243. I believe if you put a big game 6mm bullet through the ribcage that deer will die before it runs a 1/4 mile. The problem is some of them do and some of the blood trails will be dripping spots far apart. I killed 30 something deer with.mine and only lost 1 I thought I hit. Never found blood and he was a brute. I moved on to bigger bullets with no regrets. I wouldn't use one for deer hunting unless it was my only option. I realize other people feel otherwise. I would rather have a millisecond of recoil than spend a long time tracking and dragging.

One weekends work with a .243, all DRT 1 did go about 10 yards backwards, I've posted this picture before, I've never had any trouble killing deer with a .243, I am not a fan of blood trails. Rio7

Bullet of choice?

I try and shoot for the neck. Always drop right there. It doesn't matter what I shoot them with either. I shoot .308, .30-06, 8mm, and .50 MZ. I have some steep hills around my hunting area. Don't want one to run very far.

Jack rabbits ? LOL. I don't see many lung shots there. When you hunt them afoot in the woods, you often don't get to put your bullet where you might choose and from the angle you'd prefer but rather you put it in the spot that is clear of obstruction from the angle that's offered.

LMAO

That and a 40 yard death dash into a tangled hell of underbrush 25 minutes after sunset can make for a deer that's nigh impossible to find.

Yup. OTOH, I shot a doe through the heart with a 100gr Sierra Pro Hunter that simply shredded it and the other stuff, didn’t exit, and left little bullet bits scattered in the chest. She went maybe 100 feet, leaking blood the whole way. That won’t, can’t happen really, with a hit higher up, exit or no, except maybe for some spray on the offside, unless the exit hole is pretty large IME. That PH really crushed that doe, but I’m glad she was broadside. The last one I shot with a .270, in 2011, was with a 130gr Interlok, and it was half-way up, knocked hair off the far side of the chest but didn’t exit, and that buck left not a single drop of blood on the ground. Until I found the hair, I was convinced I’d missed.

Deer are not supposed to run off after getting shot. I'll never understand why it's so hard, the bullet goes where the + is when you pull the trigger. It's not the caliber, it's not the bullet, it's the shooter.
I've came to the conclusion that some people are just damn lucky to kill a deer, he'll some can't even shoot a target very well.

I'd put my money on RIO even though Blackheart "hunts them afoot."

Says something about Rio’s marksmanship and where he hits’em. I’ve seen chest shot WT’s run that far hit with a 26 Nosler. Chest shooting to save meat is OK, if you’re not in a thicket. In that setting, better nail’em so you can find them, worry about meat loss later.

DF

You shoot them where there's a clear path for your bullet that will go through something vital. You can't shoot them in the neck if there's a tree between you and it. Lung shot deer will usually run aways no matter what you shoot them with. We don't all sit on our asses in a stand, shooting house or blind and shoot at unobstructed deer over a feeder, food plot, field or shooting lane.

Jackrabbits? The Yankees call deer German shepherds around here. And they'll shoot your dog as a deer if one runs by them. DFY's

They look like fawns from here.

The last big buck I killed with my 243 already had 3 100 gn core lokts in him when I shot him in the neck. He laid down and got back up. 5 th bullet under the ear turned him off and I never used the rifle again.
The year before I killed a big buck with it and put 2 through the.ribs and one in the jaw running. He went a 1/4 mile into a bad place to drag one from.
I use bigger bullets now and don't have that problem any more.

Never had a single issue with the .243 here. Piles of whitetail and a fair number of black bear. It was my main cartridge for years, and still carry one quite often now. Wife uses it exclusively, several of my hunting buddies use one, and it gets the nod when we take new hunters.

Most kills either with 105 Amax or 95 NBT. Have saw a ton drop with various 100 gr factory offerings as well. Have one buddy who uses 55 grain BTs and loves them. Says they’re the best bullet he’s used for neck shots.

Whatever issue you have, it’s not the cartridge. Scratching my head as well about bullet issues, if they are breaking both shoulders like you stated in your post.

This is why, since moving to the Low Country, I tend to do my late watch from an elevated stand, use a caliber that makes a big hole, and shoot to destroy the running gear. My first deer down here, I did my normal clean, in the crease, heart -lung shot with a moderate caliber and got the usual 50-60 years run…right into the tangled underbrush. We found the deer but I don’t want to do that again, in the dark, warm weather.

My Boys drop whitetails DRT with the 243 95 grain Ballistic Tips. Never and issue.

I had a problem with one big buck and the 243. It took five shots to kill him. But the first four were shiit shots, hitting in the margins, rather than good vitals hits. They only served to amp his adrenaline.

Again, it's the Indian far more than it's the arrow. Animals don't die because of headstamps. Thinking a cartridge is to blame is irrational. All you've done is create a superstition around little marks on a piece of brass causing (or not causing) an animal's death.

Another 243 fan here, I've never had an issue. I've used the 80 GMX, 80 TTSX, 105 HPBT and 95 NBT. A friend has killed an absolute pile of deer with the 100gr Federal Blue Box and 95gr Fusion. We hit them in the important parts in the front end, I'm a shoulder breaker, and we've never had an issue. I've actually never recovered a bullet from my 243's as all have passed through. I'm a thick woods hunter so I take whatever angle I have in order to get to the vitals.

Zero issues with deer hit with well-placed 243 bullets. If you're hunting them "afoot" and taking the angles that are given by obstructions... maybe sometimes the answer is just not to shoot... rather than depend on a bigger bullet to make up for placement. That's not a criticism of how anyone hunts or what with... just an observation.

I've killed several deer with 100 grain CLs in 243. None of them went anywhere. On the other hand, I shot a deer a few years ago at about 50 yards with a 6.5mm bonded bullet, turned both lungs and the heart to liquid, but the damn thing still ran 40 yards into the thickest stand of blackbrush in Texas before hemorrhaging (looked like the bucket of blood scene from Carrie) everything in the chest cavity and falling over. Sometimes deer are just gonna run dead on their feet.

There's certainly nothing at all wrong with taking angle/quartering shots that go through vitals. If you're worried about a 40-50 yard death run making a deer "nearly impossible to find" you should probably stay in your stand where you can pick your shots.

I took my .30-30 out over the weekend and put a couple groups on paper from 50 yards. The first 3 shot group measured 1 1/4", the second 7/8". Nothing spectacular from a rest but I was shooting off hand. Some people could no doubt do better. Most can't.

You quoted "nearly impossible to find" ... but I didn't actually say that. I followed a blood trail and dragged the deer out. (Obviously, or I wouldn't have know what the hemorrhage site looked like.)

In your previous post, you implied that the 243 wasn't enough gun because the way you hunt doesn't allow you to select shots given the angles and obstructions, so you'd prefer a larger cartridge. But if you're capable of really putting a bullet through vitals, what's the problem with shot selection? We aren't talking about elk or bison or a brown bear skull. If you have a shot at vitals, for a whitetail, the 243 with a good bullet will get the job done just as well as a 6.5 or 7mm, as virtually everyone here has stated.

I never implied a .243 wasn't enough gun. With the exception of rio ,I've probsbly killed as many with a .243 as most anyone else here. It won't put deer down on the spot dependably with a lung shot, nothing shoulder fired wiil. It also won't put as much blood on the ground as often as a larger cal. IME and for that reason I prefer to use something with a bigger hole in the muzzle when hunting in cover and not from a stand. For stand hunting where you can pick your shots, a .243 or even .223 is fine.

This is a path I cleared through impossibly thick vegetation on my acreage. Look how thick it is on either side of the path. Imagine trying to make it 40 yards in an uncertain direction though that...after dark.

That kind of stuff is "fall down and never hit the ground" thick, and it does suck to track one in that. Dragging one out isn't fun either.

Same.

My experience with how deer react to a well-placed 243 is simply different than yours, so there's not much point arguing about it. (Neither of is is going to discount what we've seen actually happen.) That said, the quoted statement below doesn't say anything about being able to reach vitals and implies that you shoot the deer where it's visible through cover and obstructions. I.e., "don't get to put your bullet where you might choose" which for almost everyone is vitals (I'm not a headshot person) ... "you put it in the spot that is clear of obstruction from the angle that's offered" which could mean that spot is ANYWHERE where the deer is exposed to your vision. Again, I'm not saying you didn't get the results you've suggested with the 243, but if you don't think your statement implied shooting spots other than vitals... we're simply at a rhetorical impasse.

"When you hunt them afoot in the woods, you often don't get to put your bullet where you might choose and from the angle you'd prefer but rather you put it in the spot that is clear of obstruction from the angle that's offered."

Afoot, 25 yard shot. 50 yard run, bad shot placement on my part. 6mm, 95 grain Partition. Poured blood but didn't need it as I watched him go down.

Afoot. 35-40 yards. Instant death.

Some interesting comments here on the .243, for hunting here in the S. Texas Brush Country, the .243 works for me as a good all around gun, for Whitetails,Coyote,Bobcat,and Small to medium size Exotic's, I have killed large game animals with the .243, but like most here I like something heavier for critters over 400#

Some people kill Elephants with a 6.5, Some people have trouble killing a Elephant with a 500 Nitro Express, Example's of 1 don't count for much. Rio7

Not doubt the 30-30 works but is about as slow of a killer as I have used when it comes to behind the shoulder, rear lung shots. Definitely nothing spectacular as I see when speeds get to 2700 or faster.

Not exactly large bore and sure isn't setting the world on fire as far as speed. I have seen several deer shot with one and all had the classic 100 yard death run, yes there was a blood trail and yes they died but I still scratch my head why some want to track deer while I could be busy gutting.

If I were to use it again I would be back at that high forward shot I use with a 223, 22-250, 243, 6mm, blah blah blah cartridge and would be finding the deer dead in their shadows.

Bloodtrails are overrated.

What I meant is you dont always get the perfect presentation and get to choose to shoot them high shoulder, neck, head or broadside through the lungs, duh. Geesus, I've been killing deer for near 50 years and have killed well over 200 of them with everythig from .22LR to .30-06 and a bunch in between. I killed my first buck 48 years ago with a .22LR {and several more thereafter}. I killed my last buck last Wednesday morning with a pointy stick. I guess by god I know where the vitals are and where they ain't, how to put bullets and arrows through them and what the results are likely to be. I also know a six year old can kill deer from a stand with just about anything if he can shoot and that a .243 or .223 is not the full equal of a .30-06 when it comes to producing blood trails, despite what some of the fans here would like to believe.

Nice buck.

I've killed 90 deer with a .30-30 since I started using one in 1979 and haven't had one make 100 yards after a lung shot yet. In fact the vast majority have gone down somewhere between 20 and 60 yards, just about like they do with my .223, .243, .308 or .30-06. Hell, I've even lung shot a few with a .22 magnum and 5mm Remington magnum rimfire and none of those made it as far as 100 yards either. On the other hand, I shot one broadside through both lungs from 30 yards with a 12 gauge foster slug and watched it run 250 yards across a pasture before it went down. Which just goes to show there are no absolutes and there's always an exception to the rule. One thing the .30-30 has over the .243 is that in all those deer, shot from near every angle, including through both shoulders multiple times, I've only ever recovered a 170 grain bullet on deer shot lengthwise straight on into the brisket. All quartering shots, whether to or away and going through shoulders coming or going it exits.

Pretty much ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ it right there
I've killed more than a few deer that were able to
make it to cover with red jello for innards

Never had any problems getting one back to where
I could put the pieces in freezer bags though.

only answer to getting one to drop in it's tracks
that I could offer is to pop it in the head with a
precise rifle shot, or blow it down with a bunch
of buckshot or similar . It's either that, or sacrifice
a goodly portion of useable meat

After you've been here for a while, you learn to "weed out the chaff".

When the "chaff" hunts the thick stuff, he'd rather have a boomerang trajectory boomenheimer, to leave big, leaky holes, rather than a laser beam, for bisecting those brushy holes & killing shyte !

It's a deer, if you can't kill it with a .243, or can't sign track an animal for 50 yards, kick it to death with your steel toed, brier bustin boots.

Yep, gotta have a blood trail, to find a deer !

TFF !

😂😂😂

That's excellent shooting Blackheart. I have 10+ hunters every year and maybe 1 or 2 will hit a milk jug freehand at 100yds using a scoped rifles. I like to see everyone shoot before I let them hunt, easier to put them in the right spots for success.

A blood trail can be handy in sorting out which track to follow in places with lots of recent deer activity and hence lots of fresh tracks. Not often needed but sometimes helpful and more likely to be better with a larger caliber. Blood can also tell you the location of a hit and hence whether you should follow up right away or give it time. Particularly valuable information if you weren't there and are helping someone perhaps less experienced find their deer.

The 80 TTSX hammers deer and pigs in grandkids rifles. They don’t go far at all.

I practice my off hand shooting all summer, 3 - 4,000 rds of .22 LR because that's how I shoot most of my deer. I had the highest off hand average in the league when I competed in 4 position small bore. I also shot the highest off hand score at the state championship match the third year I went. Like I said. Some people could no doubt do better. Most can't.

My bet is I'll kill more deer this season than alwaysadork, just like I have every season since before the goofy lookin little inbred troll was born. I killed my share with small bores, .222, .223, .22-250 and .243 long ago. I know what they do and what they don't do as well. It was fun and enlightening to see just how well they can work but if you can shoot something bigger just as well {and I can} they offer no advantage over something bigger. It's been about six seasons now since the last time I killed a deer with my .223 and the last one with my .243 was in 2013. They still get used for varmints but the .30-30, .30-06 and for the last 3 seasons the 6.5 Creedmoor are what go deer hunting.

9 pages. In summary. The 243 Win. Some swear by it. Some swear at it.

If I'm able to get to the lease this weekend I'll take my 243. I have 95 grain Partitions loaded with a top charge of IMR 4451. They'll do.

I would say if all the bullets used so far are from the same batch try another bullet. 6mm is plenty to put down a whitetail with good placement and proper bullet. My kids started with 223's and bonded bullets. When hit in the vitals those deer died quickly and with good blood trails, 243 carries at least twice the knockdown power. Load up some different bullets and see what they do, experimenting with loads is fun for me at least( not so much for the deer)

MM

I’m going with bad luck! memtb

"Is the .243 adequate for deer?" Wow! Talk about a retro argument!

Oldquailhunter, I admit that I haven't read all the pages of your thread, but having rambled around deer hunters in three states here in the Midwest, the most "the one that got away" stories that I've heard involved the .243 Winchester. A lot of guys outfit their young hunters with that cartridge, so it might be operator error in placement or a poor varmint bullet choice. That said, I've been on a soap box for a lot of years about the poor blood trails that I've experienced on deer and elk with a NP from a 7mm-08, .308, 7mm RM and .300WM. There was always a dead animal at the end of the trail, but I had too many anxious moments finding one in fading light with a sparse blood trail. The front end of a Partition is "soft" and yes, it blows the lungs into mush, but that front end folds back and what leaves you a blood trail is that smaller diameter folded back rear section going out the back side of the animal. I've gone to the Interlock, SST or Ballistic Tip after what I've seem with Partitions and TSX's and have experienced much better blood trails and faster kills.

Although discontinued, the 100 grain round nose from hornady will drop a deer right where it stands. I handload this bullet for my daughter and they drop deer like a lightening strike!

I was the main deer finder when one didn't go down in sight on a lease out near Guthrie TX. The main "shrub" there was called Shinnery which is a bush version of an Oak tree. Deer didn't have to go far to be hard to recover. By far most of the deer I went looking for were shot with a 243. What made hunting down deer less than a pleasure was the Prairie rattler. When I used a 243 out there I shot in front of the shoulder not behind it. There is much truth to both sides of the argument. I used the 85 grain Partion a good bit and it penetrated well but made narrow wound channels. Didn't matter much to me and I never lost any deer or hog shot with it.

I haven’t killed the numbers y’all talk about with a 243
But in the eight or so I have killed with one they were all dead within seeing distance
On the other hand , I’ve shot perfect heart and lung shots with 30-06 , 308 , 30-30 , 300win , 20 gauge accutip , 444 , and various ML bullets
And have seen plenty run out of sight
Some bled like stuck hogs , some I simply found by zig zagging and spotting it
Meaning no blood trail
There has been no magic bullet for me or caliber
Some times a deers heart and lungs can be mush and when you gut it you wonder how the hell did he run like that
One comes to mind in NOVA was an eight that walked up over a ridge with in 15yds of me and froze
I was able to shoulder the rifle and pop him in the shoulder quartered to me , big timber , no obstructions
He took a ducking hard right turn and bolted like a bat out of hell
With out even a kick
I thought WTH ?
Walked over there and looked and not a drop of blood
30-06 175gr VLD setting on 59 gr H 4350 if I remember right
Not absolutely sure about powder weight
Any way looked and looked , no blood
I knew it could be no way I missed
Started zig zagging in the direction I saw him run in
About 150ydz out I was about to go into a cedar thicket
Pulled my cell to call step son to come up and help me as it started ringing I raised my head and saw the outline of the tail about another 50 yds in front of me .
Walked over with rifle shouldered , got next to him looking all around still not a drop , Only thing was a trickle from the nose
Then I noticed a dark spot under the hide , a one little blood drop in it
Kneeled down and poked a finger in it and you could hear bone crunch and was mushed
Skinned him out at home and was a massive entry wound
You could stick your fist in
Heart and lungs were complete jelly no exit wound whatsoever
Thought the bullet had to have hit something
Checked shooting area next day , nope
Only reason I can figure it didn’t bleed from entry is something clogged it
Have had tremendous damage from all the other calibers mentioned and have had many that went in excess of 150 yds
Depending on animal
Depending fact that bullets do not always preform the same tells me there is no magic caliber
Kenneth

I've shot truckloads of whitetails and mule deer with a .243 loaded with 100 gr. Partitions. It's the gun I started with and still in the lineup for rifle hunting deer, though I've fallen in love with the .260 Remington as well.

My god, it's a wonder anybody ever uses anything other than a .243. Hell, you're probably over gunned with that and should just stick with a .223. There's simply no point in all those 6.5's, 7mm-08's, .308's, .270's, .280's, yada yada yada, that so many of you use. You're just wasting powder and lead. It's like using a dump truck to go get groceries. And what about those doofuses that use stuff like .35's and .358's ? Why they're simply delusional nut bags. If they had the first fuggin clue what they were doing they'd trade those rifles in for .243's today.

I'd bet 3/4 of the "no blood" tracking jobs I've helped with over the years have been shot with cup/core 6mm and .25cal bullets at standard velocities. Most were in pine plantation briar thickets with tracks everywhere, from deer and hogs. No fresh snow or virgin forest ground to work with. All these diagrams and photos everyone posts are great, but a lot of deer aren't shot at the best angles, while holding absolutely still, by a hunter with a perfect rest. It's not always watching a deer for minutes on end while you wait for a great shot presentation. Around here, we sometimes have to hunt narrow lanes in thick cover and you are left with the shot presentation you get, often times for 5 seconds or less. I'm sure the 6mm rounds are nearly optimal for a culling operation in open country, and are probably what I'd pick, and if I was heading out tomorrow to just shoot a meat doe and had plenty of time/opportunity, I'd be fine with even a .223/5.56. Deer hunting, on purpose, for a good buck? I want more rifle, because I might get one or two opportunities all season for a good shooter, and he might give me 3 seconds to make it happen and get a bullet in a vital area.

"If you can't do it with a .243, you suck" is kind of akin to saying self defense with .22LR LRN should be totally sufficient. If you can't make that headshot or CNS hit under stress on a human at 7 yards, I guess you suck. Maybe so, but I still carry centerfire JHP because schitt happens.

Except in Iowa where we have 35 cal. and up regs. Years ago my dad and I were hunting coyotes and we called in 5 in one particular stand. I got two, my dad got one, and they all dropped at the shots. Then the first one I hit stood up so I shot him again. Down he went. Then the second one I hit out at longer range stood up, so I shot that one again, and back down it went. I was using my Dad's. 243 with whatever ammo he had and in disbelief I asked Dad if he's had this trouble with a .243. He said Yea he's seen it happen with deer and coyotes and preferred to stay with round nosed bullets which helped apply more smack. I handed the gun back to him and said I'll stick with my 30-06 thankyou. I believe that was the last time I carried a .243 win in the field.

Very well said.

And that is the whole truth! Well said JPro.

In those situations, it’s not more rifle that I want but more bullet. I’ve driven a fair number of .243 bullets lengthwise through large deer, smashing large bone in the process, and the 80 TTSX and 85 X/TSX have gotten the job done with aplomb.

If somebody wants to make the most out of their 6mm around here, I point them to the Partition or the TTSX. At least there's good odds you'll have two holes in the deer unless the shot angle is really harsh. The ones we've had to do a lot of tracking with were Gamekings and Core-Lokts, as they didn't regularly punch out on angling shots. I never caught a Partition from my 6mm days, but I have generally seen easier tracking jobs when bumping up to the 6.5mm-.30 cal offerings.

I've never used TSX's and probably won't. I see no reason when the cheap cup/cores I use in my .30 cals. have been working fine for decades and dozens upon dozens of deer. I've also heard from many people who say that they produce narrower wound channels and can be slow killers with lung shots so you need to shoot bone for quick kills. In fact, I hear the "shoot bone" mantra from TSX users over and over again right here on these forums. Makes sense since a given bullet at a given velocity can ony do just so much damage. You have a choice of a longer narrower wound channel or a shallower, wider channel. I don't always have the option to "shoot bone" due to obstructions and since I don't do ass shots {ain't been that desperate} and as stated before, I get full penetration on hard quartering shots with what I use now, I see no reason for a longer, narrower wound channel and more penetration. Unlike many here apparently, I have no problem and make no apologies for shooting bullets bigger than .24 cal. at deer.

The 85 grain partitions left very small exit holes for me but yes the others generally used the cheapest factory loads on sale. They also lost a lot of feral hogs which I wouldn't spend my time trying to recover, wouldn't risk getting either my dog or myself snakebit over a hog. Blood trail or not crawling through "tunnels" in that shinnery knowing the Prairie rattler lived in there made for some nervous times. I usually used a 7x57 and it seemed to me a much better deer rifle in that situation than my 243.

If going "heavy" give me a 100 grain Gameking. Seen more "drt" with those in a 243 than the others save for the forward and high hit where any of em work great. The Gameking sheds a lot of weight or comes unglued, me like this for fast kills.

A 100 grain Partition gets high praise and I have had good luck with the 95, but as far as very fast kills in a cup n core I like 80/85 grain stuff. Pretty much instant lights out.

Not a fan of the 100 grain stuff. It works but not nearly as fast of a killer in my opinion.

YMMV.

Use the 95gn Federal Fusion with little to no issues, so far.

The odd thing about the 243 to me was the number of deer that went down on the spot or within a few feet. Then others that would make it way into the thick with good solid chest hits. I shot a doe dead center through the lungs and she dropped but then she got back up and made it fifty yards! I have rarely ever seen that happen. That was with the 85 grain Partition.

Dead center in the lungs. Not a lot of deer die instantly from just a lung hit.

No reason to as they haven't had time to drown in their own blood and leak out yet.

Yeah some will say thier '06 kills em instantly with a lung only hit but I bet they never took the time to really get in there and see what was really hit.

Most folks gut em, and from what I have seen they can make a chore/mess of that then off to the processor not having a clue what really happens at the shot.

I used them in the 150 gr. weight in my .30-06 for a couple seasons. They are vey accurate in that rifle. I have one I recovered from just under the hide of a medium sized buck I shot through both shoulders a couple seasons ago. It expanded very wide which of course limited penetration. No issue in that instance of course since that buck dropped in it's tracks but I'd rather have seen it exit.

As I said before, nothing shoulder fired will drop them dependably with a lung shot. At least not that I have found. I've even seen one take off like a turpentined cat and run a good ways after taking one through the lungs from a .338 Win. Mag..

I agree. About the only thing I've seen take them down reliably with lung-only hits were soft bullets at hyper-velocity. Old school NBT lung hits from 300WM or 7mmRM pushing 3300-3400 would often drop them with just lungs, but they'd sure make a mess. Other rounds generally have them on their feet for 10-30 seconds after a hit through the middle of the lungs. If that's the hit you get, I like to see some chunks of pink goo coming out of an exit. A medium-weight bullet from a 7-08, 308, 35Rem, etc will typically do it pretty well without much recoil. Probably why they continue to be regarded as bread & butter deer cartridge's around here.

A 257 Weatherby shooting 100 grain Interlocks is a contender in the lung shot, instant drop conversation.

Except the campfires very own Rost495 disputes that. I've also heard a 55 from a .22-250 or 80's-85's from a .243 at warp speeds will do it dependably. Nope, BTDT several times with each. It's nothing I'm going to rely on with anything.

Yep, BTDT several times with the 243 and 6mm.

My bet is that with some of these shooters and somebody else tracking their deer is that had the shooter had a larger caliber bullet the results may have been the same on lost deer. Some people just aren't hitting the animal properly, it's lost then there is blame on the cartridge/caliber when it reality nobody has a single clue where the bullet even hit.

I’ve shot a fair number of deer with a 6mm Remington/100gr psp and a 243AI with 105Amax. Never with any lighter bullet weights than those (in fact, I’ve never shot lighter bullets than that through any 243/6mm rifle for any reason come to think of it).

I don’t know that I’ve had more than one go more than 30 yards under it’s own power and the vast majority fell where they stood (or landed if they were running - I grew up jump shooting whitetails).

Soft bullets flung fast tend to fold deer up quite impressively in my experience.
Pretty rare these days that I’m that mad at a deer that I need to step up to a 243AI to shoot him though.

Exactly why I like softer Sierras pushed over 2800, 3000 or so seems to be the sweet spot on em though.

I run the 130's in my .270, zero issues with them there as well.

I was using Speer Nitrex in both[Grand Slam bullets], but then Speer sold out and whomever discontinued the 'factory ammo' line.
Ran out of the Nitrex 4-5 years back, tried the Fusion in one, it did well and added the other caliber.
Piled up 15-20bx of each and add one-two yearly.

I just try to keep it simple with my admittedly limited knowledge, if something works for me I stick with it.

I'd like to try the 180's in my .30-06 for hopefully a bit more penetration but they've been unobtainium around here so have gone back to Power Points for now.

Hm. Maybe there's some folks here that are under-gunned for shooting the gigantic deer in their neck of the woods. I suggest a wildcat cartridge: a 20mm case necked down to 50 cal, and using the Hornady 570gr DGX Bonded bullet, just as fast as you can push it. Should anchor 'em with shoulder shot.

That works, too. Variety is the spice of life.

Having said that, I've not seen one run further than about 100 yards after a good lung shot, and most been much shorter, which is not too different from what you've mentioned using other calibers.

Not much data here on Federal 100 grain blue box. That's my deer bullet for this year. My son has got good results with it

That’s my bullet of choice in the 243.

Another thing that comes into play is , if you know you made a good hit .
Set tight for 20-30 min to let him lay down .
If you push him , her instantly you’ll give them an adrenaline rush and then you’ve extended the hunt .
My self and several others have made that mistake plenty of times .
Kenneth

Had a big hog (maybe 325lb) soak up that bullet this morning at about 180 yards. Saw buzzards after lunch about 600 yards away.

Sir, if you are gonna chase me around with the bumperdumper pic, you have to do it right so others understand.

Make a meme out of it.

Well 2 days ago I screwed up the biggest buck I've seen in years by my piss poor bullet placement. Using my .243ai. I got excited and for some unknown reason put the + on the point of his shoulder when he stopped broadside. It knocked him down on the front end and then he ran off. There was a good blood till there was no blood after 1/2+ miles. I knew I had problems with penetration using the Hornady 103 ELD-X, but the ELD-X shoots extremely good in my rifle and I thought I could overcome the lack of penetration by bullet placement. But during the rut when the bucks are running the does back and forth, hardly stopping. I've learned that I need something else bullet wise, my mind isn't capable of making the right split second decisions. If nothing else, I'm more convinced than ever, that Bullet Construction is more important than Ballistic Coefficient for hunting. We still had a good afternoon my son killed this buck shortly after my screw up.

Wife put a 95 BT through both shoulders this morning, went about 8 yards like they normally do. Typical performance.

How big of deer and what distance? I bought a pile of these bullets and thinking about trying them.

120ish pounds dressed. About 130 yards.

Ballistic coefficient never even enters my mind when I'm choosing a hunting bullet. My hunting takes place in the Woods

Federal blue box 100gr behind the shoulder works for me…

This weekend my nephew drilled a nice NW Louisiana buck through the shoulders. He was shooting a 243 using Federal ammo with the Barnes 85 grain TSX.

Outrance:







Entrance:

And???

Nothing extraordinary, the buck made it about 30 yards and that was it. The bullet was still going pretty fast on impact, the range was only about 50 yards. There was one petal curl lodged in the hide on the exit side.

Did you expect anything different? 30 yards is a looooong ways in this part of the country.

What scope was he using?

An old Nikon Monarch 3-9x40.

Damn those .243's!!!

Got my shot, SOB RAN!!!

Had to track him some 30 yards!!

Both shoulders.

55 yard shot through woods.

Boat Paddle, with 1st gen Nikon Monarch 3X9-40
Federal Fusion factory

My nephew had been using 95 Fusions and Uncle Mathman 95 SST handloads, but he ran out and bought the TSX loads before he said anything to me.

Have yet to see any issue with the Fusions in either .243 or .270

SOB ran 30 yards , but it was all downhill and landed less than 20 yards from where I was sitting.

The Fusions worked great, as did the SST. I'd have preferred he use my SST loads since then I'd have had a small part in the proceedings.

mathman: Outrance?? Learned a new word today. It's amazing, the things that one can learn on the 'fire :-)

I figured the Germans have ausgang and eingang, so we can have outrance and entrance.

I bought an American Legion raffle ticket and won a 243. I ended up selling it and now have lots of loaded ammo. Maybe someday, I'll buy a 243 again.

The .243 has always been really popular in my area and I haven't heard many verified stories where a deer ran off after being hit in the correct area. In the 50 years or so I've been hunting I've never witnessed or heard of a coyote surviving a .243 hit in the body or head.

230ish yards. Another 95 NBT. Slid down the hill, but was dead in his tracks.

Surely it’s more of a disadvantage to hunt big boned animals with a 6.5 than a deer with a 243. But the Swede and Creed appear to be widely used and accepted for larger ungulates.

Well I shot one this afternoon with the big bad .243. It was wild.

Factory ammo, Leupold scope, offhand with my left hand, insane I tell ya. The damn thing died right f’n now too. Not one step after the shot.

Shot was 50 yards facing me head on. Shot between the front legs. Federal blue box 100gr. Insides were a mess, heart was in chunks. Bullet didn’t exit.

Buy some lottery tickets

Word.

Tell your mom I said “hey”

Well, had you used a boat paddle in the mighty 308 with 150 nbt's it probably woulda dropped at 25 yards so way the better Seriously, I've had and heard about rather few rodeos involving the 243 didn't involve the nut behind the butt.

My sister used a 243 with 100 gr bullets to kill any number of deer. The extra weight of the 100 grainers would flatten them every time. I don't know what kind she used, though. She gave it up when her husband started keeping her barefoot and pregnant.

My boy shot a really nice 25" mule deer the other day with his 243. We messed with him for a couple hours over 2 ridges in burned standing timber. Finally got a decent shot at 306 yds. Shot was prone. Entered at the base of the neck , through the off side shoulder. Buck never took a step. Fell over with his legs in the air. 95 grain nosler ballistic tips. Excellent deer bullets. My 2 boys and I have killed 8 or 9 big mule deer with a 243, at ranges from 50 yds to 410 yds . Very lethal, low drama.

Why would you use seconds for hunting? Practice, yes, hunting no! Bullets are the cheapest component of a hunt and just about the most important!

Sounds like an enviable track record to me 😊

If searching for deader faster, double lung them with a Berger.

Heck with the 80gr TTSX it’s at least as good as the common garden variety 6.5x55

%&*$#*@! .243!!!!!
This sombitch ALMOST took one step!!!!

Well, actually he flipped and was DRT!

Been trying to help wife get a deer since getting my lil' 8 two weeks back.
She has [much] higher standards than I.

Been hunting a farm with her off and on since getting mine, I've only been carrying my CCP .380[as always] letting her take choice of which rifle.

Nice !!!

But why'd you crop out the pretty Lady ?????

R19 with the 85s using a cci 250 or Fed 215 primer is doing 3300 or better....lung shot deer more than often run, even with a 7 mag. You can not break a deer's shoulders and them run off.

95g Hornady SST is one heck of a deer hunting bullet, hangs right with the 95g ballistic tips.

Uploaded the wrong pic.....don't tell!

Raeford,

What bullet? Distance? And what did the bullet hit/break to cause drt?

Thanks

Absolutely! That bullet acts like a 7mm at least. Impressive penetration and blood trails

50ish yards
Factory Federal Fusion
Heart shot

Shot one last week with Federal blue box 100gr. Deer never took a step. Shot facing me, exited behind left shoulder. Heart was in chunks, lungs were jelly. By the time I made the 50 yard walk there was blood on the ground on the exit and coming from the nose.

Friends have killed 3 deer in the past week with the 243 and factory ammo.


Big doe - 50-60yd shot, entered right side mid-rib, broke left shoulder, no exit - 100gr Hornady btsp. She made it maybe 20yds


11pt buck - 90yd shot, rear lung/liver, deer hunched up and walked 3-4 steps, hit again 3" higher with the 2nd shot and the buck collapsed. Federal blue box 100gr


Big doe - 30yd shot, lungs were mush, clipped the heart. She made 2 hops, stumbled and fell, so maybe 10-15yds? Federal Blue Box 100gr

And we have antelope buck I shot about 150 yards or so that took an 85 gr. hpbt from Sierra through both lungs. He was standing and I had a dead rest. He looked my direction and walked up the ridge for a couple hundred yards and stood around. Finally his head dropped. I walked across to the spot he went up the hill cut his track in the light snow. Blood trail easily spotted, the bullet exited but he walked of and remained on his feet several minutes.
Years later a 100 grain corelock through both lungs of a doe antelope that was drinking at a pond. She ran over 200 yards before going end over end. little blood for the first 75 yards.. Since I could watch her not a big deal. There have been other incidents like this over the years.

Dammit!!!
%&*@^*! .243 done let me down again!!

Was wanting to go track this one but the sombitch was DRT!

Nice rack Raeford Congrats ! Any idea what that deer weighed ? Just curious. Looks kinda skinny.

He wasn't huge but our initial rut is winding down so he's been going hard for a month+ now.
Didn't weigh but would guess #175 before gutting.
Wifes deer from last Sunday dwarfs him size wise, but my spread beat hers by almost 1" @ 19-1/4".
Would guess hers @ #215+
Both had near empty intestines.
Hers:


Mine has a 3rd peticule[?] dead center.

Our bucks are all rutted out up here of course. I killed an 8 this past Friday that dressed 155 lbs. Looks pretty similar to your wifes buck. Huge neck, big shoulders and haunches. Not a bit of fat on him.

My dad is still available for a conversation if you doubt any part of this story. This happened 10 miles North West of Mission, Texas where I grew up. We were frequent coyote hunters out in the mesquite brush country where the coyotes were abundant and came in fast. I was in high school at the time and wasn't paying attention to finer details like bullet construction. Dad had the 243 ammo so I used it, and what I used will forever remain a mystery. With 243 Winchester bullet construction is very important for quickly dropping game. If the bullets are a little hard the game can really run.

Great buck Raeford!

Well done fella !

I'm done, no shots fired.

3 shots here:
8pt
Doe
11pt
Trying to keep costs down

Your 243 must be defective
Congrats!

Operator error....as the operator IS defected.

Bullets matter in all cases, but particularly for cartridges that are conventionally used across game categories, such as varmints and big game, it pays to mind bullet selection.

Too light for a body shot on a grown boar hog?

Sandlapper, Who wrote this BULL SCHITT??? don't believe everything you read. Rio7

Nicely done!!!

Rio7, Boddington penned the article.

It’s odd but I agree we see a 1/16 of the face and she’s pretty.

Sandlapper, Not the first time Boddington has written a bunch of B.S. Rio7

I agree, 37 years she has put up with me!

Nice buck, Raeford! My experience with the .243 is the same as yours, it kills 'em dead, right there.

At least as dead as any I've ever shot with a .300 Win Mag.

You obviously know nothing about Nosler "seconds."

They are not rated as "seconds" because they're defective. Instead they have cosmetic blemishes, which are detected by slowly rolling the bullets under a magnifying glass and a powerful light. They come from the same manufacturing of bullets as Nosler "firsts," which have already been tested in ballistic gel for expansion and penetration.

I have used a bunch of Nosler Partition seconds over the decades, in various calibers and weight, and almost all the time I cannot see any blemishes with my bare eyes. The only exception was a batch of 200-grain .30 caliber Partitions that had some discoloration--but they still grouped just as accurately as "firsts" of the same caliber and weight, and expanded and penetrated just as well--as have all other Nosler seconds I've used. The ONLY difference is the discount in price.

Really??

Anyone who has issues with the 243 killing quickly and cleanly need only find a mirror for the explanation.

The .243 winchester is the most versatile, do all cartridge for anything under 250 pounds inside 300 yards. You can push a 55 grain bullet past a 22-250 and a 100 grain bullet close to 25-06 velocities. For coyotes, antelope, all species of deer it will do it all.
Screw a 1:8 twist on it, load up some 105s, and it becomes a whole different animal.

Man, that's a lonnnnng spell of continually outkicking your coverage.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yep. Most think they need a railroad spike tough bullet for deer which leads to threads like this.

Give me a semi soft bullet that opens quick, fast and in a hurry but gets through the vitals. I have killed more deer with a 243 or 6mm loaded with an 85 grain Sierra SP than I have with heavier "deer" suitable bullets and have had no issues at all. The heavier "tougher" bullets lead to deer making tracks easier, no thanks.

Most deer will die on the spot or go less than 50 yards.

If you want a 100 grain bullet that knocks their dicks in in the dirt get a 100 grain Gameking or Speer BTSP.

Betting that discoloration is something that didn't clean up in one of the wash processes. At least that's what Sierra told us was the issue with a lot of their "seconds".

I gots skillz

Coyote 10, Have never limited my 6MM's to critters of 250# and under, I have killed more than a few critters that weighed over 500# with a 6MM. Rio7

I speak a bit of Portuguese. "Skillz" translates into "the genetalia of a large stallion."

Agree. I've witnessed the landowner's son pummel big mule deer bucks over the past 6-7 years with it and a 95gr ballistic tip. He know's what he's doing.

I will readily admit to being skeptical about the .243's abilities for years, then one Christmas Santa delivered one to our family.
After watching the success my son had with it I was sold.
If it isn't MZ season that's what I'm taking.
Every time!

I agree Rio7 but I've never hunted anything larger than that except a few old mule deer that would go up around 300 pounds. I bet the 243 win would do a good job on an elk with good shot placement of course. I lost count of the deer and coyotes I've killed with one. One year I killed 80 coyotes with a cdl and 75 grain v maxes. But I just grab the 30-06 if I think i may need more horsepower. I do believe a .243 is the most versatile cartridge in the area I live in. And I have tons of experience with the cartridge.

It's good to see some of you oldtimers finally coming around.

Makes me feel all the .243 Win posts of mine over the years were not a complete waste of time.

Hey, Old Man, who you callin old?

Hey John, I guarantee you that old mulie weighed 300 pounds! Fast twist? Love it.

I would agree. My son shoots the 95 grain BT, and it is one of the best deer bullets that I have seen for a combination of penetration and overall internal damage. He has shot 3 or 4 really nice mule deer with it, as well as several whitetail. He shot a big mule deer this fall at 306 yds in fairly heavy burnt timber. He shot him at the base of the neck, at an angle. The bullet wen t through the neck, the front part of the chest cavity, and went through the very end of the scapula on the off side shoulder. The big buck never took a step. He tipped over upside down, and wedged against a stump. He made a similar shot on a nice buck last year with the same results. Tikka 243. SS 3x9 scope.

That goes for me too, 34 years for us Scott !





Hunting makes Deb happy.

That goes doubly for you, my friend.

And for me too.

Hey, I'm not uglier, than that Raeford fella !

Got the same amount of hair, though !

Yeah, 99's is definitely in the club. When someone tells me that, my response is always the same.....
Just the way I planned it"!!!!

Love to see the ladies getting it done! Hoping to get my daughter in on the fun next season.

I got a good blood trail that wasn’t needed on a decent doe this rifle season.


I was using the corelokt tipped 95 grain. The shot entered one shoulder and exited behind the other.





My wife got her first buck this year with the same round and dropped it so there wasn’t a track job needed.

Slow the 85 grain bullet down 10% to 2700 fps (maybe 2600 fps). Won't be as rapid expansion of the bullet, and may keep the front section intact.

I stand corrected...

There was a time.......

My .243 was shot exactly 4 times this season.

4 deer, 3 pass-throughs, one lodged in opposite shoulder.

Ruger MKII Boatpaddle[she's a beaut Clark]
1 in 9 twist[I believe]
Federal Fusion Factory ammo[95gr]

50 yards, Ran aprox. 30 yards[downhill]


Doe
No pics, 70 yards-DRT

Bang flop by wife @ 60ish yards-DRT


Bang flop by me @ 100yards-DRT

Yeah, me too !!

I have a 243 , that is junk yard piece together gun , 700 action , new take off barrel ,and a HS Precision Stock I found. It is in my truck all the time. With a light 2.5-10 x scope. It has become my regular using rifle. Kills antelope like lightning and has not had the chance yet to kill an elk , But I am sure its capable . I consider it maximum on antelope unless shooting at over 500 yds. Everything bigger does too much damage. On the plus side also is my 8 lb rifle is comfortable to my surgically repair neck. the antelope I killed this year with it was In my elk hunting area. I put away my primary elk in the woods rifle and lo and behold the 243 was on the back seat, 10 minutes later the antelope was in the back of the truck. easy 300 yd shot DRT.

Very nice sir.....but

Big fan of the 80 gr TTSX in the .243. Wanted to try some 50 gr TTSX in a 22-250 but the Savage I have is a 1:12 twist I'm pretty sure. Barnes recommends 1:9 or faster for the 55 TTSX. I did buy some 50 gr TSX but haven't worked up a load for them yet.

You shouldn’t need a 1:9 for a 55gr ttsx. 62 in up you probably will tho.

About the .243 Win. . I have also seen it make no blood trails. However , the other day I shot a doe just before closing.. I would have sworn up and down I hit that deer where I aimed. As I shot, it turned around and ran almost towards me. i shoot again and it spun around and died right there. Skinning it out , I was amazed that I missed the first shot and the second shot was way off . The bullet was about 16" back and high. I must have blew out the kidney and put it in shock . No other explanation for it. I missed the heart and I think the lungs. When gutting, I never saw so much blood in the cavity. It was some old Remington bullets I bought for $10/100 years back . Not hot reloads neither. Just maybe , the lost deer with no blood was a miss. There is so much brush that I am sure it was deflected and didnt see the twigs. Just saying .

Back and high, probably the femoral artery if below the spine.

Yes, it was below the spine and there are some arteries there , and was low enough to not hit the back straps .

I hate my .243.

Every time it goes "bang" there's work and butchering to do.

Somebody said they went to a bigger cartridge because of a 15 yard shot and a 25-06 in another thread.

It had nothing to do with needing a heavier cartridge for a sub 250# animal.

Guys around here are terrified of a deer shoulder vs 243 win, so much that they always shoot “right behind the shoulder” which means at best liver and usually guts. Then they can’t find the deer, then the 243 doesn’t have enough “knockdown power”, lol.



It shot them with my 243 like I would with anything else and I’ve never had a problem piling them up.

I've been using .243 since 1970 . Always shot the same load with the same Nosler flat base 100 grain bullet. The load is the minimum 100 grain jacketed load listed in Lyman's 1970 manual for IMR 4320 and was also their accuracy load . It's somewhere between 2700 - 2800 fps . Never lost a deer , never had one run more than 30-40 yards , and it is extremely accurate in every gun I have shot it in and that's quite a few . I currently own 5 and both sons have one apiece . I usually double lung them and it usually does damage to the heart as well . Got a friend that used an 87 grain bullet for years with a hot load until he tried the Lyman load then switched to it .

This !!

Yep, I'd opine, though personal experience, that the shooter forgot that at 15 yards, from above POV & POI are at a minimum, of 1.5" apart, depending on where zeroed.

Went for a head shot, at about that distance, on a buck jumped from his bed.

Took out the lower jaw, deer died, but a bloody mess, that could have ended differently.

YMMV, but it was the last, close up, head or neck shot I've taken.

That is a gorgeous woman , she beats pretty by a good bit . Is she a blind girl ?

My nephew's kids all got nice bucks this year, all with .243s, no issues. Some kind of factory ammo, dunno what kind, whatever was cheap at the Walmart, no doubt. Apparently, the .243 is okay for kids and wimmens, but not enough for he-men.

I know my father would cripple a lot of deer with his .243, but he'd never practice, and used factory 80gr. bullets, because they killed coyotes faster, and he shot at more coyotes than deer. Most notably, though, he just didn't practice, and wasn't a great shot. In fact, he was a pretty poor shot, overall.

A lotta guys on this thread have problems killing deer with the .243. I think they’re unknowingly commenting on their marksmanship. I’ve never had a problem with the .243 and I’ve killed shietloads of deer and antelope with it. In fact I rarely use one for deer nowadays as it’s overkill.

True



......and true. Guys need to get out in the field and practice more I guess.

We still use ours for deer, every season, as it is the smallest, legal centrefire we own !

Big or small, they all die, if you do your part.

Simple as that Pard!

My wife uses Nosler 95,grain Etips . Never had to trail one yet!!

Sure is. I hope you and your family had a great Thanksgiving Les. I've been teaching my girlfriend to shoot her 243 at distance. She's loving it! We were at the range the other day and I was going over the ballistic plex reticle with her. A guy sitting at the next bench over stopped shooting. And when she was done, said, "I wish I could get to that level of shooting, she's making it look too easy!!" She was tagging the targets using the holdovers from 100 to 400 yards.

She even got a little full of herself and started hitting the yote silhouette in the head. I told her, when she can make constant hits with boring regularity, then I'll take her jackrabbit and coyote hunting. That is where she is going to do her best learning!!!

I'll put my marksmanship skills up against anybody here and I still prefer a bigger hole in my muzzle for hunting in cover. My niece killed a nice 162 lb dressed 8 point on opening day this season with her .243. It killed it alright, one shot. Her and her dad did have a time finding it though as it went a good 100 yards in thick cover and didn't bleed. It was lung shot with no exit. I don't know what bullet was used but her dad is an experienced hunter and rifleman and wouldn't have her using varmint bullets.

The 80 wasn't the problem. Seen too many killed with an 80 grain Sierra Varminter SBT. They get unalive very quick.

I have seen some of my fastest kills in a 243/6mm with an 80 or 85 grain bullet. Next up would be a soft 100 or 95 grain Partition which has a softer front core than most realize.

Like you say, it's the Indian not the arrow.

I’ve killed a ton of deer and coyotes with a 243 using a maximum charge of IMR 4350 and 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. I made it look so easy it convinced several others to go to it. I never tried factory loads so the people having trouble it might be the bullets they are using.

A guy I used to converse with on the old Huntamerica boards was a professional game manager with 20 years experience responsible for culling 600 deer per year. He used a .243 for awhile and then abandoned it. Said it didn't produce good blood trails consistently enough to suit him. Of course I'm sure the campfire crowd are all better marksmen and trackers than he was and kill far more deer as well. I filled my buck tag last Saturday morning with a 165 grain bullet fired from my .30-06. One shot, off hand, 50 yards, instant dead. I'm amazed it didn't break my shoulder and in fact I didn't even notice any recoil. Apparently my shoulder just isn't quite as tender as most here so I'm having a hard time seeing a downside to using my old '06. If it hadn't been raining I would have been carrying my .30-30 and the buck would have been just as dead but my '06 is stainless/synthetic so it got the job that morning. I agree the .243 will kill deer and is a good choice for little girls or old men with dainty/tender shoulders who have a hard time with recoil but I don't fit either description and have no trouble placing my shots when using something bigger.

Aside from 3 inline muzzleloaders, three 243's have accounted for more vension donors in the freezer here for me and my boys, 10 to 15 per year, than any other firearms we have. Good all around dependable meat gathering workhorses. Tree stands, still hunting, open fields...10 to 400 yard shots, don't matter. Paste crosshairs and send it.

Blackheart, OK You don't like the .243, it's good you know your limitations, I think it was Elmer Kieth that said do your hunting and tracking before you pull the trigger, Blood trails are not all that wonderful no matter what you used to shoot a critter, I prefer a good tracking dog they save a lot of time playing Indian Tracker, We shoot about 550 Whitetails and about 250-300 Exotics a year, not all with a .243 but more than a few, we rarely have to track a critter but when we have to it's the shooter not the Cambering or bullet used it's 99.9% the shooter. YMMV Rio7

So DRT from an 06 is more dead than drt from a 243 or 6mm??

Got it.

I shoot a 243 or 6mm a lot not because of recoil but because I don't see much need for more just to kill a 200# animal.

Shot quite a few with a 270, 30-06, 7mm Mag and 300 Win mag. Can't see where they were any more dead.

And you're shooting off hand, in the woods, at varying angles with obstructions between you and the deer ? I doubt it. And I did not say I don't like the .243. I've kept one around since the '80's and have killed a pile of deer and assorted varmints with it. In fact, I'll be taking mine to fill some doe tags on a farm next week where I'll be shooting from a stand in fields or open hardwoods. It has it's uses and limitations.

You can't count on DRT with any of those cartridges barring CNS hits and you can't get CNS hits if you don't have a clear path to put a bullet high shoulder, head or spine. With lung/heart shots ALL of them will produce runners but SOME of them will produce bigger, more consistent exits providing more consistent, heavier blood trails.

Blackheart, We do a lot of Spot And Stock hunts, and usually carry shooting sticks for our selves and our hunter, but some shots are off hand in heavy cover, Whitetails during the rut, we do a lot of Rattling and moving,we do not spend a great deal of time sitting in a blind unless our hunter has limited mobility or the weather is terrible, Every environment is different, we use what works best for us as I am sure you do. Good Luck Rio7

For me the .243 limitations start at around 600yds because I don't shoot past that. For culling does I shoot a .223ai and I don't remember when the last one ran off.

I killed a bunch with .22 rimfires when I was a kid. Doesn't mean it was the best deer rifle going and I certainly wouldn't lung shoot deer in thick cover with one and expect to have an easy job finding it.

Blackheart, What ever your drinking or smoking tonight is a little to much your comments are not making sense, come back when your sober. Rio7

I don't drink or smoke. Your comprehension appears to be lacking. I've killed deer with centerfire .22's too, .222, .223 and .22-250. I don't care for them in heavy cover either but they're fine for hunting fields or open woods.

We had a great thanksgiving, I hope you and yours did as well buddy. It looks like she’s learning fast with her .243, that’s one of the great things about it. I bet she doesn’t have any problem taking game either! 😉

I paired my son with my 243 in '98 when he came back from the Marines. He immediately killed a whitetail doe. 85 gr X bullet and she didn't run. Hit the left front shoulder and we found it in the right ham. I know that is impossible here at the fire. But she was hit with a 243 85 gr X bullet and was DRT! RZ.

Blackheart, I find it interesting that the under .30 calibers work in the open fields open woods, but not in heavy cover, dead is dead no matter where it is,or you just telling us you not a very good shot in heavy cover?? Rio7

Boy are you thick headed or what ? The small calibers kill about as quickly as the bigger ones as far as I can tell. What they don't do is put exit holes as big or as dependably and consequently as much blood on the ground as consistently as the bigger ones. That blood can be a big help in quickly/easily locating your deer in thick cover. Anybody who says different either hasn't shot many deer with many different calibers, is unobservant as hell or just plain dishonest. The buck I killed last Saturday with my .30-06 dropped at the shot but if he had run it's been my experience that the golf ball sized exit hole in his chest would likely have provided me with an easily followed blood trail. More so than the typical little dime sized or non existent exit from a .22 or .24 would.

14 pages and here is what I've learned...

1. You guys can argue over anything.

2. Some of you make up really good words.

3. blood trails are funny things. (this I already knew being an archery guy)

4. I need to shoot better.

5. Learn to track, sooner or later #3 will bite you in the ass and you will need it.

And if you hunt in a zoo, always shoot from a rest and have tracking dogs you don't need to worry about trailing.

As far as #3 some of my heaviest trails have been with a broadhead.

My hardest to track came from a 30-30 with a frontal shot. Guts plugged about a 3" exit.

The .224 bullets can leave a lighter trail but I have never had issues with anything from a .243 bullet but that may stem from me preferring lighter bullets or soft if anything over 85 grains.

Had a friend that thinned the herd on Federal prison grounds, he used a 243 with sierra 85gr hpbt, he had 7 different picture on his wall with a dodge pickup with deer stacked even with the roof, he said a 243 with the 85gr sierra was a deer nightmare

It's a good bullet. The Sierra 100 gr GK is a good one also as my one buddy is proving. I'll have to ask him how many he's killed in different states with that now. He says he's never had one get out of sight in the woods. Slightly heavy for caliber and soft or somewhat brittle, I'm not sure which, but it does a number on them according to him without blowing them up.

I had a deer run 80 yards after taking one of those through the lungs. Quartering shot into the far shouder. No exit. Very little blood. Shot one through the lungs with a .22-250 and 55 gr sp. no exit and it ran 50 yards leaking no blood. Lungs poured out of both like so much grape jelly. Don't tell me soft/varmint bullets always drop them now because they don't and often there will be no exit and very little to no blood. Use them enough in thick cover sooner or later it'll burn your ass. It's just a matter of time.

I'm not telling you anything. What I am saying as a fact is that I load the Sierra 100 gr GK's for a buddy who hunts a couple different states every yr and is a deer killing machine. There can always be anomalies, but he loves the results with that bullet, so far. That's all I know. He's killed a bunch, he really likes it.

Back SE Texas, in the late 60's to '70's, the 6mm Remington/100gr Corlokt in a mod 742 was the "ne plus ultra" Deer Rifle. Several older men had them ( we young ones didn't have any money to speak of) made do with 30-30s and military surplus 8mms, 6.5 Eyetalians and 30-06s. ha Funny, I only saw one 243 in years down there. I left that part of the country in '87. I now live in Utah. I have seen 243s in abundance out here, but this is "Barnes Country", and from 75gr to 100gr X and XLC were preferred. Now the 80 TTSX seems to cover it all.

Back in 2000, a neck surgery recovery had me shooting a little 6x47 (222 Magnum necked up to 6mm) Wildcat. I used the then 85 XBT, going a tad over 2700fps ( think short barrel 243 speed) Took it to Texas (Exotics) and killed an axis doe first ( outfitter was nervous about it) then I shot a very nice Axis Buck. And last, I traded The Rancher my custom 220 Swift and 100rds of Federal factory 55grTB and some money for a Scimitar Horned Oryx. Wind was swirling, but we got to within 184yds, from kneeling/supported I shot him at the neck/shoulder junction, which broke his neck and exited, he dropped, kicked once. The "insurance shot" at 75ish yards, he was on his side, I shot him at bottom of brisket, it broke his back and was just hanging out of the skin. It later weighed around 83gr (if memory serves) So....a 243 (or similar) needs (a) a good bullet (b) someone who knows how to shoot well Or keep shots close for youngsters, etc. In my humble opinion...:)

If you're hunting from a stand/fixed position and don't mind waiting for the right presentation and passing up the less than perfect/hard angle shots the soft little bullets will do fine.

The 95 BT, 95 PT and 100 PT always put blood on the ground pretty reliably.

I don’t disagree with BH but with a bit stronger bullets tracking them isn’t such a pain in the butt.

The Partition works well because that front end is very soft.

Get a stout bullet that doesn't have a soft front end and let the rodeo begin.

Agreed 10gauge, I love fast and rapid expansion. The PT and 95 BT do both well in the 6mm instance.

What bullets would those be exactly in .243" ? I've killed deer with 100 gr. interlocks, 100 gr. core-lokts, 100 gr. power shoks, 95 gr. SST's, 85 gr. Sierra HPBT and didn't find any to be overly "stout". In fact I've recovered examples of all those bullets from deer and all were anywhere from "well and fully mushroomed" with significant weight loss to "well and truly fragmented" in bits and pieces.

Now that I got everyone arguing , I must say I used Remington core-loc 100 gr. flat base bullets that I bought about 10 yrs. ago for $10/100. I wish I bought more. That said, I think it is a very good bullet. I am amazed that this deer went down ad didnt go anywhere . I shot it 16? back and the cavity was nothing but blood. I am not sure if it is the bullet . We are arguing over the .243 Win. but it might be the bullet. Our first deer was my son with a Speer 100 gr. (#1220) The doe was not shot in a very good spot, way high and forward, almost a neck shot. it ran 40'. Next up , a 100 gr. Hornady interlock, doe went 50' . Next up a buck with a Remington 100 gr. a shoulder shot, went 50', this one I shot Tues. didnt go anywhere. It could be the bullets . Sometimes I swear a bullet explodes in the cavity and it is shock that does it.

I understand where BH is coming from about deer in heavy cover. Smaller bullets deflect very easy when hitting an unseen twig, but its the patiently waiting ( as those old pharts and their 6mm Rem/Mod 742) did for the good shot, and they liked the easy recoil/fast follow up shots if he ran. Its not a bad method, not one I cherish, as I too have seen even a 175gr Clkt from my 7mm Rem Mag "turn into a puff of smoke" when it hit an unseen small twig that was between me and the close range crow I shot at! In fact, right after that, on a whim, I traded that heavy Browning BAR. I stopped at Oshman's in Beaumont, after a NG Drill in '75, and i swapped "even" for a Model 870 with vent rib, Modified choke in 3" 12ga. PLUS. a little Marlin 1894 44 Magnum. I know, I got out of there fast! That little Marlin was one of the very fastest Timber rifles I have ever had. It made big exit holes in deer and hogs both, big blood trails. Sometimes they dropped/kicked around, sometime they ran, but not far. Blood everywhere. I'm a believer of heavy calibers in the woods, but even they can deflect, sure, but usually a big chunk will hit, leaving blood to follow.
The "biggest, most effective help for me" was later, in Fall of 1976 I started Bow Hunting for real. I would shoot one deer in Archery Season and one in Rifle/Shotgun Season, but I used my old 30-30 or my dad's jammomatic Mod 742 30-06 (both with irons) and used Bow Hunting Techniques. IOW I "learned how to hunt the Timber". I had sold the Marlin to a friend who couldnt live without it) I did that 5 yrs running. But my heart took me back to rifles...and I got an oddball rifle/caliber/3x9 scope that all the old pharts told me "would not work" in those woods! A "bolt action" Ruger 77 in .280 Remington. I had put 1" mounts on my .22 the summer before to get used to a scope in the woods. I was 24, my first scope, Montgomery Wards (made by Tasco) I guess the Old Pharts forgot us youngsters shot each others military surplus bolt guns a ton! ha B ut that Archery season (October) I still Bowhunted and shot squirrels, with the scoped .22, Then put the scope on the Ruger in (November-January 3 )rifle season. A 150gr Clkt at 15yds,scope on 3x, made a 12 pt run exactly another 15 steps and fell, 2 " exit hole blood everywhere! I was a happy boy. When I killed a 11 pt at 10 steps with my bow, I was accused of "sticking an arrow into the bullet hole", why? Those Old Pharts said you cant get that close to wild deer! yeah. So there is alot of Life that can either help a young person, stearing them right, or hurt them, stearing them away from the Sport. "We "Old Pharts should help anyone who will let us. Some don't want our advice, that's cool, I deal with that most every Altar Call I give, ha.
Happy Thanksgiving Guys! (wrote while sitting here recovering "yet" from another surgery, whoopee!

In my experience monos mainly. I did shoot a few with the Hornady 87 grain BTHP and didn't care for them, found a couple that were together, expanded but not to my liking.

Wasn't a fan of the 95 grain SST early on or the 85 grain HPBT Sierra. Both seem hard.

Of the 100s I liked Hornady BTSP and the Sierra Gameking. Buddy likes the 100 grain Speer boattail. Typical exit hole about like a golf ball, sometimes bigger if you could catch bone going in and out.

85 grain Sierra Varminter SP, 80 grain Sierra Varminter BTSP were both very fast killers. The 85 Sierra SP was all dad's 6mm ever shot from '78 until I tried a 100 grain Sierra Prohunter semi pointed in about 2014/2015.

I have killed a handful with a Partition which has a very soft front end.

Currently have the 90 grain Ballistic Tip on deck for the 6mm.

Never did mind a bullet that was in several pieces. Those were fast kills for sure.

Even when I was using 25-06, 270, 280, 30-06, 7mm and 300 Magnums I was using a soft bullet, Gamekings generally. Same fast kills, just more damage than was needed for a 200# animal IMO.

140 Ballistic Tips in the 7-08 right now.

Most of the Sierra 85 HPBT fragmented for me. Not enough penetration to suit me. Turns lungs to goo but doesn't often exit unless a pure broadside shot behind shoulder. SST's much the same. Very destructive but not much penetration if any significant bone/meat is hit. Both ruin a lot of meat if shoulder is involved. I certainly wouldn't call any of the above mentioned bullets "hard". You can keep your "soft" bullets. They don't offer the consistent exits or penetration from hard angles I want and I do not find they consistently drop deer enough faster than the heavier, "tougher", deeper penetrating bullets I prefer. I have found the vast majority of lung shot deer will go down somewhere between 20 and 60 yards from point of impact whether shot with my .223, .22-250, .243, 6.5 creed, .30-30, .308 or .30-06. The difference is the .30 cals. with medium heavy bullets penetrate more, exit far more dependably and hence put more blood on the ground on a more regular basis. I have killed nearly 100 deer with the .30-30 alone and have not recovered a 170 gr. bullet except on a lengthwise or nearly so shot. I expect deer shot with it to be down within 60 yards after a hit through the lungs 95%, drop right there with a shot through the shoulders and have never recovered one from a side on presentation despite the fact that I've put them through both shoulders of heavy Northern bucks multiple times. The second biggest buck I've killed is hanging over my TV. He was taken with a 170 gr. bullet from my .30-30 while still hunting State land. Hard away presentation headed into posted land 50 yards in front of him. Bullet shaved hair off the side of his hind quarter, entered his flank, penetrated through paunch, liver and lung cavity and was recovered just under the hide at the side of his neck in front of the offside shoulder. It was a picture perfect mushroom expanded about halfway down the shank to .62". He didn't make it to the posted land. I wouldn't have wanted to try that shot with a "soft bullet" from my .243.

Never tried pushing them on you, just stating what has worked well for me, my dad and several buds that shoot the 24 calibers.

Which 170 from the 30-30?

Run a sierra 85gr hpbt out of a 26" barrel going at 3917fps nothing lives

From a .243 Steve? I shot a 240Wby a few years, I got that speed with the 75gr Barnes.

Winchester Silvertip, though I've used 170 power shok, 170 power point and 170 Sierra FP at various times and found them to perform satisfactorily. The Silvertip was my favorite for many years until discontinued. They have been replaced in recent years by the Sierras in front of a max charge of CFE 223 for 2240 fps and they're doing just as well.

Years ago a prominent outdoor writer constructed a baffle box filled with wooden dowels to shoot various bullets through at a target set a distance behind the obstruction of the box. The manner in which he built and set up the box allowed him to shoot through the box at the target and then measure how far off the bullet impact was from the center of the target. The damaged dowels could be replaced and a new shot fired with the same consistency as the previous shots. In that testing the .243 Winchester 100 gr. spitzer did very well and was deflected less than some other rounds that were thought of as "brush cartridges."

Wayne Fears?

That test has been done by about every damn gun writer in the business for over 60 years. Jack O'Connor wrote about doing similar in "The Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns" published in 1961. All of them came to the conclusion that ALL bullets will be deflected in a completely undeterminable manner to one degree or another. Jack however did find and I quote "Heavy bullets with round or flat points that travel at moderate velocity get through brush better than light, fast, sharp pointed bullets. At one time I carried out extensive experiments on the deflection of bullets by brush, twigs and limbs. The conclusion I reached was that the best brush bucker was the heavy, non spinning rifled slug and that the poorest was the fast, light, sharp pointed bullet such as those used in the .220 Swift and the .24's. I found that the best rifle bullets were those on the order of the 200 grain jobs for the .35 Remington and .358 Winchester but the hunter should remember that ANY BULLET is liable to be deflected."

I personally do not use the heavier, larger caliber bullets because I have any delusions that they'll remain true after coming in contact with brush/limbs and always look for and shoot through an open path to the vitals from whatever angle that may be. I prefer the heavier, larger caliber bullets because of their ability to penetrate from bad angles, break bone and provide a larger, more consistent, leaky exit wound. As a side note, I just killed another doe early this morning with my .30-30 and handloaded 170 gr. Sierra. Range approx 45 yards. Broadside behind the shoulder through the lungs, 1.5" diameter exit wound. She ran about 40 yards leaking profusely before hitting the dirt. Typical.

I remember reading that with interest. It tended to run counter to the old school "brush bucking" school of thought. The overarching message was that NO bullet/caliber should be considered a "brush bucker."

RL17 is your friend here, 45.5grs, got 3900fps + out of 2 shilen 26" match barrels

BH, I wont argue with you that I prefer a bigger caliber when encountering any and all possibilities of shots, although I've killed plenty with a 6mm.

I shoot mostly 30 caliber but that's mainly because I just happen to have plenty of 30-06's along with a 308 in the mix.

I gotta say though I've been thoroughly impressed with the somewhat diminutive 35 Remington in albeit limited examples so far. A broadside 80'sh yard shot behind the shoulder on a smaller buck resulted in going virtually no where. Blood all over. A shoulder shot on a larger doe at just over 100 yds flopped her over belly towards me and not sure she even kicked.

And one if not my largest buck at a tick under 100 yds on a steep downhill shot and hard quartering away. Bullet entered high and back, went lengthwise and exited just behind the off shoulder. He made it 60 yds, stumbling hard the last 20, blood out both sides. That bullet had to traverse a long ways to exit but still did a lot of damage to the lungs. That was the Speer 180 FP.

In all cases you could eat right up to the hole. Extremely limited bloodshot, including the shoulder shot doe. I got a lot of confidence in that round at reasonable ranges.

We used the 150 Clkt in our 30-30s on those small SE Tx deer. I've owned several Mod 336s in 30-30, and they just seem to like the 170 and even 190 (Hawks) even better. I actually like the Ackley version better, just looks neat to me. A 30-30 is an awesome hunting rifle! Many elk are still killed with them in the Youth hunt. I have a Pristine 1974 (yr my twin girls were born) Safe Queen being tweaked right now, reamed to the Ackley. Its a meat getting tool, aint it?

Killed my first Mule Deer, Elk,and Pronghorn, with a 30-30 model 94 that I borrowed from my grandfather, sense that time i have owned several 336 and 94's in 30-30, there's no fly's on the 30-30. I have always liked the 94's light and handy saddle gun or truck gun. Rio7

I used the 85 grain Partition for a couple of years out of a 243 pushed right at 3000fps. While it always gave excellent penetration I found exits to be small and wound channels not so wide. The dumping of some 35 grains of core was really not all that impressive. I had much better results with the 95 grain Ballistic Tip, 105 gr. Speer, and oddly the 85 grain Sierra BTHP.

Well that's it then, you make a good argument for cigars and whiskey.

That's another thing I really like about the moderate velocity rounds, they're easy on meat compared to the high velocity rds with soft bullets. I had a .35 years ago. I couldn't detect any noticeable difference in it's effectiveness over my .30-30 so eventually sold it as .30-30 ammo and components are cheaper and easier to find. It's a fine deer round for sure but for me the .30-30 is more practical and does the same thing.

I got my first .30-30 in 1979 and it's been a constant companion for my woodland deer hunting ever since. I have tried many other rifles and cartridges over the years but always come back to it. It's been a dependable deer killer for me for all these years and I love the handling characteristics and balance of the traditional tube fed lever guns for hunting on my feet in the woods.

You've always been kind of a dick. Does it just come natural to you or is it something you have to practice ?

So noted, comes natural. That said I agree that the 243 is not the end all to deer rifles and bigger guns more likely to leave a good blood trail in thick brush. However it is hard to trust a guy who says whiskey is of no value to him.

I really like my .243 Remington rifle for long shots out on the prairies of South Dakota for pronghorn antelope. Always one shot kills for this amazing animal. But I do believe that this cartridge has limitations. I would NOT recommend it for truly large game animals including elk, moose, and the great bears. - Sherwood

Alcohol of any kind is incompatible with my medication.

Well you are getting pretty close to 6 feet down if that is the case. Whiskey and Tamaget are my only actual medications.

Whiskey is certainly not good for you. You should probably have an MRI to check for fatty liver disease and a liver function test. You're probably closer to 6 feet down than me.

Ain't sweating dying. Should of been shot off a bar stool years ago. Could have been dead many times already. The Grandkids are almost out of school. Pretty sure God wants me to live long enough to be really miserable before I go on to the next level.

Nah, it'll never work !

There isn't much mass left in the rear section of an 85 grain bullet when the front section of a Partition gets peeled off, which results in less penetration and odds of exit wound.

You may want to try slowing the bullet down from 3000 fps to 2700-2800 fps to reduces the risk of shearing off the front section. More mass left on the bullet will give more penetration and hopefully an exit wound for easier tracking. Try it on a couple of deer and see what happens.

I would also vote for the heavier (95+ grain) Partition or the 90 grain AccuBond, but slowing down the 85 grainer may give you improved performance - especially if a rib or bone is hit.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/.243+Winchester.html

Funny part about the 85 PT. My cousin has an old 700 243 he has had since he was 12-13. Rifle just keeps stacking deer up with the 85 PT and you couldn't tell him a bad thing about it.

85PT also does a fine job in a 6x47. Sweet little deer killer!

Don't overlook the Speer 90 grain hot core 0.243 caliber flat base spitzer.

I have had good luck with whiskey and a 100 grainer through the lungs. Not in that order, necessarily.

I killed two big does this afternoon with my .243 and 100 grain Federal factory loads. First one was 285 yards behind the shoulder. She ran 50 yards back into the woods, left not a drop of blood on the snow. Second was approx 100 yards behind the shoulder through the lungs. She ran 30 yards back into the brush. Again no blood on the snow.

Did you get exits on those deer?

Just finished skinning/quartering the 100 yard doe. Bullet hit behind left shoulder and went into the right shoulder. No exit. Haven't skinned the second doe yet. Will get to it tomorrow.

Thanks...

Blackheart,

I'm surprised that little ole .243 bullet didn't bounce off it's Wal-Mart's fault ya know. Rio7

One thing I have noticed with new snow a lot of times a warm drop of blood will drop into the snow not leaving a visible trail on top. That said with snow to track with a visible blood trail may not be a big deal.

I had two deer on the same day, same box of ammo. 6.5x55 bullet fragmented and although it killed both deer, did not exit at 2600 fps at 35 to 40 yards.

So it's not just the tiny bores that have weird stuff happen.

My son shot a doe the Wednesday before thanksgiving, facing him head down @165 yards and probably about 40' down in elevation. Kimber Montana in 308, 165gr Speer Grand Slam @2600 mv. The bullet was just in front of the hams. It took out about 6-8 inches of spine, bang flop. Bullet was a mushroom of sorts and weighed 112 grains.
Fast Fwd. to this morning, he shot a nice 8pointer@ 25 yards (Pics to come later in a new thread) slightly quartering away at the 3rd or 4th rib back, buck ran about 30-35 yards and fell dead. Sparse blood trail and the bullet was just under the hide in front of the left shoulder. It looks like it mushroomed fine and then rode the shoulder blade fwd, shaving off part of the expansion. Bullet weighed 125grs.

I believe we are going to try a different powder to get the velocity up to hopefully around 2800. Right now he's @ 43 grs. of IMR4064 and a CCI 200. 2.800 COAL. This shoots 1/2 MOA but we want the velocity up some especially for longer shots.

Contrast that to a couple of years ago I shot a smallish Doe @ 65 yards,110lbs or so with a 6.5x55 swede and a 140 Hor. Interlock. Texas heart shot and the bullet exited out the Rt front shoulder. Bullets do crazy stuff sometimes. Go figure.

I need to clarify, the doe he shot was hit between the shoulder blades and the bullet traveled through the body cavity at an angle to stop in front of the hamsdown low. Almost through.
I wasn't very clear about that in the original post.

Snow can be particularly handy when using a small bore. Though in an area with many deer and many fresh deer tracks, staying on the one you're after can be a challenge.

down here the 243 get a bad rap from stand hunters for not good blood trails from water . dog hunters like to use semi autos with lite bullets to keep deer in the scope . the dogs make up for the bad hits .

And to stir the pot a little more, A big bore like a 450 Bushmaster might fare real well in the high grass with more blood. I dont think it has the shock power though. No? Yes?? My cousin is going back to the 30-06 . She shot 2 deer and no blood at all. Found both though... Seems they always get found with the 6mm. though.

My least favorite place to do any tracking is east Texas thorn brush. Deer tracks everywhere, grass everywhere. holes in blackberry tangles suck to crawl through and usually wet. Don't take my 243 there.