I would like to buy a 20 ga with rifled / slug barrel to hunt deer with. I mainly hunt from a tree stand in the wooded NC mountians. I don't have any experience hunting with slugs. What brand of shotguns have worked well for you? Do you use iron sights or low power scope? Thanks.

It's not Rifle Country there..?

My wife totes a 20 gauge NEF rifled bore scoped with a 3x9 Leupold and shoots Hornady 250 grain SST loads...

Wicked good shootin' ammo outta her rig.

I killed a doe with it last fall at 125 yards, head shot...

I usr a T/ C Pro hunter in 20 gauge shooting the Hornady SST ammo under 2 inches at 100 yards for 3 shots.

With the big hole in the barrel it is a very light weight rig, but the recoil is sharp...off the bench.

Doc

Honestly, any shotgun will work. Slugs shoot better through open chokes, or rifled barrels. Why a 20? They kick harger than a 12 (Usually).

I would say most deer hunting here is still with rifle. Central and Western NC is going through a development craze. Plenty of family farms out in the country being sold and subdivided. Loss of habitat and hunting areas. It is starting to feel like a centerfire might not be the best or safe option.

I guess I am thinking ahead some. The timber has really grown on the area I own and hunt. The views aren't as far as before. Thought it might be worthwhile to check out an autoloading 20 ga with rifled / slug barrel to hunt with.

How much you want to spend?

Benelli Super 90's are awefully nice hunting guns!

I figured with a 20 ga, that I could plan to get another barrel with chokes. I grouse hunt some, and like the lighter weight of a 20 ga.

Wouldn't rule out a 12 ga though, if that is a better option for slugs, since that would be the main use. Thanks.

I have sort of become a deer hunting addict. I don't mind saving up / spending for a better quality shotgun. I just have to keep it somewhat a secret from my wife :-)

What do you think about Benelli's vs Browning Gold or Remington 11-87?

I don't want to start an uproar about shotguns, but I own all three, and they all have their place. The 11-87 is just an 1100 that will shoot magnums (and perfers them). They are great guns as long as you keep them clean. Browning Golds (3") shoot everything, from 7/8 oz to 2oz turkey loads without a stutter, and have very little "felt" recoil. Benelli's will shoot dirty, function fast and can be fitted to you. The Benelli Super 90, or M1, only weight 5.25 pounds and is a joy to carry, but will bite you!

Dunno if I'd mess with the 20gauge. Certainly will do the job - just more options with sabots in the 12 gauge. (finding them readily)

Hard not to like the Benelli but I don't know your price range.
For me, the 11-87 is hard to beat. I have a 3" 11-87 SPS and use 3" Federal Premium Barnes Expanders.

I had not thought about ammo options. I have not looked into availability of shotgun slugs 12 ga vs 20 ga.

I sold my over / under 20 ga. It was very light and good for grouse hunting and occassional clays, but wasn't much fun to use for turkey.

Do any of you mount a scope on your shotgun? From what I have seen, Brownings and Remingtons have a base / mount system on the barrel that extends back over the receiver. Benelli's appear to have an open sight system with a receiver drilled/tapped for bases. Would that make any difference in your opinions?

Skanes got the right idea........make sure you get a fully rifled cantilever slug barrel and mount a good quality scope on it such as a Leupold.

Mwarren, I personally feel the the cantilever system such as the Remingtons are way more accurate/rigid than the reciever drilled tapped style as the scope is firmly attached to the barrel.

I do not scope my shotguns, so I have no experience with the mounting systems.

Doh! Thanks Tom. Forgot to add that.
Cantilever is the way to go.

Thanks for the input on mount systems. I have always hunted deer with a scoped rifle, so I guess I might be a little lost without a scope.

It is easier for me to move around and shoot a light rifle from a tree stand. It seems deer watch to see which direction my stand faces and then make a point to walk behind me. It's tough standing up for an off hand shot with a heavy rifle while hanging around the side of a tree 35' up.

Put an additional stand on the other side of the tree - that'll fix'em....

And another thing...like I said get a good quality scope! that goes with the rings as well....be it a 12 or a 20 they both are not friendly to any scope mounting system.

Are shotgun scopes and rifle scopes different? I see them listed seperately by the mfr. Is the parallex the main difference?

Yep. Parallax is the difference.
Shotgun scopes generally use a heavy duplex as well.

Yes I believe the parallax is the main difference, I use a 1 3/4 x 6 Leupold and thats a rifle scope and it has never been a detriment to me.
Just dont go any higher in power.

IMO A good Rem 1187 in 20 or 12 gauge with cantilever barrel, Leupold VXII 2-7x33 and Federal Barnes tipped expanders are all you'll ever need out to 150 yds. YMMV.

what Tom and Kimber7 said.

I used to hunt grouse with a 20 until I used a 12. There is a whole lot more shot in the air to fill pattern holes and penetrate brush and I put down more birds. It's amazing how few pellets are recovered in grouse so you may as well stack the deck.
A lightweight benelli montefeltro 12 is nice for grouse hunting. A light 20 or 12 will be brutal for slugs either way. I would pick a 12 for more shot in the air and more slug options. Stoeger makes a nice autoloader that benelli bought out of jealousy I suspect.
H

I understand the opinions about 12 and more ammo options. I owned a 28 ga for a very short time. Finding shells for it locally was tough and when I did they carried a high price. Based on that I might need to really think about a 12.

I have not seen many 12 ga autos that were light though. Remingon 11-87 and Browning Gold wouldn't be fun to carry for a day of grouse hunting. Those are two I have seen at local shops. I did see a Beretta auto but didn't pay much attention to it. Not sure why, just didn't.

While I have the 12 gauge 11/87 I have always had the desire for a 20 gauge version with the fully rifled cantilever barrel for deer......I think thats a good way to go too.

I do like the idea of replacing the slug barrel with a 24" or 26" barrel after deer season. A combination shotgun like that in 20 ga is what I have in mind. But the 12 has some good advantages. Would be nice to find a lighter 12 ga.

I would get:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_11-87/model_11-87_sportsman_deer_specs.asp

Either in a 20 or 12ga.

And shoot:
http://www.winchester.com/products/catalog/shotdetail.aspx?symbol=SSPTH20&bn=5&use=8

or:
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=b033fa423984f6359fc520efbe5bb469&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=d27c0a040bea71ad74e3d35d6bc0ec9e

or:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/core-Lokt_ultra_bonded_sabot.asp

or:
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshell/slugs/copper_solid_sabot.asp

or:
http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=5&s1=1


I have a sportsman 1187 12 ga 3" with a full rifle CL Hastings bbl that shoots well with the Win PG sabots.

Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

Been thru a couple of shotgun vs. rifle arguments...one county here is shotgun slug only and the surrounding area is rifle with the only real difference being politics. Been a pretty heated battle the last few years to allow rifles in that one county.

It's been shown statistically, by our Game & Fish that rifle use is safer than shotgun slugs on many levels. Never could figure out the problem understanding that anyway, as I couldn't imagine launching a bullet, or a slug for that matter, and not know exactly where it's going to end up stopped. Been taught from the beginning to put dirt behind it....not houses.

Never could figure out either why those in the "thick woods" would prefer a shotgun slug over a rifle bullet. I've killed enough stuff at close range in tight cover to know that a precisely placed rifle bullet has the advantage.

But you want a shotgun so knock yerself out.......

WW, I just wish we could use rifles here in IN, I would sell my cantilever slug barrel and be happy.

A precisely placed bullet in the woods on a slow walking deer, while shooting off hand aiming around the tree your stand is in with a bolt action rifle isn't the easiest thing to do. Not too mention if it is a nice buck. Seeing a nice buck in that situation increases my heart beat.

I have a bolt action. Great rifle and shoots good, but maybe not the best for tree stand work in the woods. A little heavy, and the follow up shot is a little slower than I bet it would be with a semi auto (rifle or shotgun).

Congratulations on your perfect shooting everytime WW. I have made some good first shots, but also some that were not given the location, brush, if I had to swing around the tree and if the large buck walking by got me really excited.

Toss in new log cabins being built on the opposite side of my 50 acre hillside and a auto loading shotgun seems like a fine addition. I don't see how a shotgun with slug is less safe than a high power rifle. I do agree that accidents with a shotgun might be higher given that most shot gun hunting is related to birds. Just look what Dick Cheney did a while back.

Mwarren, with an autoloading shotgun, cantilever barrel and good scope/mounts..............I think your right on track! good luck!

My 1187 with the FR cantilever barrel put 3 barnes tipped expanders in less than an inch when I sighted it in. Seemed to be pretty accurate to me.
BTW, throw a R3 or Limbsaver pad on the 12 gauge 1187 and it don't kick much....

I'd say watch the classifieds here for a deal.

Exactly! you are absolutely 100% correct Kimber7man.

Thanks for the all the great feedback. I wasn't trying to start an argument of rifle vs. shotgun. I have never hunted deer with a shotgun. Couldn't argue much based on that fact. Everything tossed out here about what to consider if I get shotgun with a rifled slug barrel has been very helpful. I really like my rifle and started reloading a couple years ago. I don't plan to just start ignoring my rifle for a shotgun...I shot my first buck with that rifle. How could I completely ignore it?

If your not looking for a pump or semi auto shotgun, these are super accurate and inexpensive. Can get a 12 or 20 guage. I use a 20 guage with Remingtion Copper solids = 1" group at 100yds.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotguns/ultraSlug.aspx

Shooting Deer with a shotgun does not take the most detructive slug out, but if you ever need that the Dixie Terminator Slug hold that disticktion IMHO. It is a 730 grain heat treated hard cast slug with a wide meplat and .730" diamemter.

Check out the Damage and the slug only penetrated 1" less than my 416 Rigby with a 400 grain Partition. The wound channel of the slug was about 4" in diameter








http://www.dixieslugs.com/technical.html

shotgun scopes usually have a bit longer eye relief about 3.5". cantelliver is the best way, although mine is a side saddle on a mossberg 500. on/off it comes back within 2" of zero at 100 yds. bushnell banner 1.5-4 scope, not the best set up but i got lucky and it holds zero (2") for now, i'll break it eventually and be forced to buy something good. zeiss conquest 2.5-8x36 has 4" eye relief. federal and hornady both have a 2 3/4" 7/8oz. sabot slug,shoots 1900fps. w/more energy than the average 45-70.

That right there is pretty funny, on so many levels....



Am wonderin' why the need, really, for the follow up shot....



I've seen me shoot a few times, and yes, I'm a fair hand at it.....but I don't suffer from Buck Fever, either.



Like you do......



Log Cabins, last I seen one are pretty big, even if small...and quite easy to not aim at......



Aimed in the air at a 45 or so degree angle a rifle bullet will travel further than a shotgun slug, but both have to come back to earth at some point in time and both would then be equally "dangerous". Since deer don't fly it stands to reason that most shots at deer are not taken aiming at the clouds. And, if you use the same old safety failsafe of "puttin' dirt behind it" then both are equally "safe". The ricochet factor however, of light and fast vs. heavy and slow makes the rifle bullet "safer" than a shotgun slug. Proven by ballistics experts and statisticianers far more adept at numbers than me. Simple physics that I've not the energy to repeat for the millionth time again on a web forum.




Nothing to do at all with this discussion, or with the proven statistics regarding the safe hunting of deer with shotguns or rifles.

WW, you are way off base jumping in with your wisdom on a thread where I am trying to learn about a subject. If you are on level ground, in a field and shoot a buck from a kneeling position, just how do YOU going guarantee dirt behind it? I shoot mainly from a tree stand, which you should have picked up on. That generally means shooting into dirt at some point. I don't aim at the log cabins, but I also can't guarantee that the kids of those familys aren't going to be playing in the woods or trespassing either. I guess that stuff doesn't matter to you.

I spent a few years in Physics classes at college. Your example of shooting in the air at an angle to support your idea is pretty stupid. Who in the hell would do that?

Explain how it's possible for a slug traveling at a much slower speed that bounces off something to travel farther than a centerfire that bounces off something at 2900 or 3000 fps. If you are going to toss in studies done, then you need to source them. I have never heard of a shotgun slug hunting for deer being less safe than file hunting. I bet a study does exist that supports shotgun hunting in general is more dangerous than rifle hunting.

Apparently you don't hunt from a tree stand. It's not funny on any level. A shot from a stand that is facing the opposite direction is tough. We aren't talking long distances, since I already stated it is in a wooded area. If you do hunt from a stand, you must not make any shots on nice bucks that walk beind the way you are facing. If you did, you would have to do the same thing you are calling "funny on many levels."

I also find it odd that you don't care for shotgun hunting, but in your first post you state how you shot a doe IN THE HEAD at 125 yards with a slug. Why were you using the shotgun? Were you just proud of your head shot and had to toss that in? Seems like you need to finish arguing with yourself about which is better.

Why a follow up shot? Because I am not too perfect to admit that I shot at a nice buck a couple years ago and missed. It was by far the biggest buck I have seen on my property, and my heart was racing and I was excited. It was walking slowly and would not stop. I rushed my shot. There is no way of knowing for sure, but would a semi-auto given me one more chance at it. That was a first for me, but then I don't claim to be perfect shot. I can hit an eight inch paper plate off hand at 100 yards almost every time with my rifle. I am comfortable enough with that.

Yep, did pick up on the treestand thing right smart like and still can't figure out why you think a shotgun would be more safer than a rifle when all of your shots are going to be "downhill" into dirt right outta the gate........

And as far as the hardship caused by a rifle shooting out of a treestand, from your perspective....I can't for the life of me figure out why you'd want a firearm with even more recoil to rectify that problem.

When you bring a good argument to the table I'll listen.......

The facts, that a slug is more likely to ricochet, and a rifle bullet is more likely to dissinegrate or bury itself in a backstop, are proven....

Am surprised that your extensive Physics Education didn't explain that to you. Musta been a frat party the night before....

Said I don't care for 'em, didn't say I didn't know how to use 'em.......

WW, I saw in your 243 POSTt that you use TSX's. I loaded some too for a hunt in CO. Those very tough bullets. I really don't think those "dissinegrate" A TSX at very high velocity has the potential to richochet and travel farther than a slug ricochet. The design of a TSX is pointed, which would also aid in a ricochet.

I never said anything about an extensive physics education. You keep bringing up dirt and backstop. I don't hunt at the range. With your smarts I would like to hear how a triple shock at 3000 fps never ricochets and how solid copper disintegrates...You might also want to spend some time with a dictionary. "Dissinegrates" isn't a word.

Your post above shows what kind of self righteous idiot you are. I stated earlier that I have never hunted deer with a slug gun. Why do you think it is bad for someone who doesn't have experience with a particular subject to ask opinions from other people who do have that experience?

Recoil effects people differently. I wouldn't think an auto shotgun slug would be that much worse than an 30-06 bolt. Maybe I am wrong, but the only way to know is either ask people that do use or buy/shoot an auto to find out. I think asking yesterday what others who use think is a good start. Is your slug gun semi-auto or single shot? I know that would make a difference in recoil.

Let me wade into this mess. I have hunted in Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky for 25 years. Some are shotgun-only. KY allows centerfire rifle.

The reason shotgun slugs were considered safer was because
they were supposed to carry a shorter distance than rifles. This was long before Hunter Education was mandatory, and a lot of dofi (plural of dofus) were thought to be air-mailing their shots.

IMHO, Slugs do not tend to ricochet. They tend to flatten, deform, and spin off harmlessly, losing their energy quickly. However, that's just my take on years of using Remmie 12 GA sluggers. I actually never have seen a slug ricochet in a hunt, only in practice.

Nowadays, with sabots and all the other new variations, I really don't see a huge difference. What might have made sense in the day of the punkin ball does not make sense anymore.

The actual morbidity numbers on shotgun vs. rifle are about the same. The reason is that most hunter injuries come from the dofi shooting at bushes or just sounds instead of deer. It happens at close range, and it often happens regardless of the amount of orange being worn by the victim. Hunter Ed has gone a long way to reduce those numbers, but you cannot seem to keep the dofi from reproducing.

You will probably see states go the way of IN, which is currently experimenting with centerfire rifles in pistol calibers, or just dropping the whole goofy idea entirely and allowing modern centerfire rifles. With hunter numbers dropping, this might be a good way to get some new blood in the game.

If I were looking for a new slug gun, I'd go with an inexpensive dedicated pump. I have a Mossberg 500 12 GA with a rifled barrel and a scope that puts Brenneke's into the same hole offhand at 50 yards. The receiver came D&T'd, and I put a Bushnell banner 1.5-4.5x shotgun scope on it. It also doubles as my turkey gun with a different barrel. I also keep an Rem 1100 with a smoothbore deer barrel for jumping deer out of the cedars. Those encounters are usually under 20 yards.

12 vs 20? My advice is 12. My other advice is to keep your shots inside a range that you can afford. I'm sure there are 200 yard slug guns, but by the time you're done setting it up, you've got $100's invested in slug ammo doing all the testing. I shoot cheap Remmie 12 GA sluggers. I kept them inside 4" on a 50 yard pieplate offhand back in 1984, and I haven't worried about it since. In 20 years, I've only had to pass on one deer that was too far out to shoot. All the rest have been right in my face, or right under my stand. If you want to see absolute devastation , you should see what a 12 GA slugger does to a the boiler room of 200 lb deer at 45 yards!

In the past 10 years, KY centerfire rifle seasons included, I have not had to stretch beyond 80 yards to bag a deer. I keep a beanfield rifle around, but the freezer is full before I ever get a chance to use it.

Merely trying to figure out, since I'm the idiot, why you would choose to run a Hugo at Darlington.........

When you are done reading this post come back to that first sentence to refresh your memory on my intial point to begin with.

Your safety argument against rifles is as lame, nearly word for word, as every other uninformed idiot that tries to make that case.....but that's my opinion, you are the obvious Expert.

I mentioned dirt, and backstop, as useful eufonisms that an N.C. mountain hick as yourself could relate to....guess I should have used "ground", and "hill", instead. The Virginians I lived and hunted with have a clear understanding of putting dirt behind it, maybe they are a tad more mountain hickish than you.

If you'd rather choose the obvious shortcomings of a 20 gauge or a 12 gauge slug gun over the obvious nuances of a .243 or a 7-08, considering such things such as accuracy and recoil, in a Rifle Allowed area, then be my guest....but that doesn't make you the smarter one because you "won" the argument.

As far as ME being the "self rightous idiot" here, I'm not the one who has never BT/DT much between the two of us...nor am I insisting upon my own stupidity upon the WWW. I happen to live on the fringe of that non rifle county and do hunt my property quite successfully with handgun and muzzleloader during "gun" season. As stated earlier, my wife uses the 20 gauge slug gun, which happens to be the only one in the house. The one and only deer I myself have killed with that firearm was a venture of R&D with that particular brand of slug....to see if it would work as good or better than her standard, it did.

When she hunts with me just up the road a quarter mile, in the next county over, she totes a .243. She's pretty hip on running a cup car on a super speedway......and knowing the benifits of such.

Asking questions is one thing, but being a moron about the answers you get is quite another. By all means buy a shotgun and hunt happy with it....you'll be the safest tree dweller in your subdivision.

Workin' on that Buck Fever problem would do yourself a lot favors tho'........

I saw it happen twice this year in Iowa and it was scary both times.

The first was on a small yearling a guy shot with a Foster type slug about 100 yards from me and two other guys. He didn't know we were on the other side of the knoll from him and he shot the deer at an angle away from us, but still angling in our direction and when the bullet came out of the deer it whistled high above our heads(ricocheted our direction, but luckily high). I admit, he shouldn't have taken the shot and I personally wouldn't have, but he did and couldn't even see us over the small knoll. It was an eerie feeling to say the least.

Then the next hunt was on a 40 acre patch of woods where two guys and I were on one side and another couple of hunters were to our left at a diagonal(we were on the South side of the block and they were on the West side). One of the guys on the West side of the block fired at a buck in the middle of the block and the foster slug ricocheted off of a tree and blew the dirt up 15 yards to my right inbetween another hunter and I. Very eerie feeling to say the least.

I've done limited shotgun hunting and tons of rifle hunting and that's the only two instances that I've had a ricochet come close by. I would rather hunt with rifles anyday over slugs.

I'm not a big fan of having several guys in one area while hunting, but that was the way the guys had hunted for decades where we were invited, so we went along. I killed my buck while still hunting in a corn field with my mler on that trip, by far my prefered method of hunting. That said, we did see some bruisers while doing the "drive" type hunts.

Have a Good One,

Reloader7RM

I have not won any argument here nor am I trying. WW hijacked this post like a freaking terrorist. Immediately jumped on my post about his precise marksmanship and 125 yeard head shots and insinuated that I am wreckless and don't put dirt behind a shot. Can't explain why a TSX couldn't ricochet and go farther than a slug, so he jumps on my case of buck fever.

I agree, that I do need to work on that. But I like the fact that I still get excited about hunting and seeing a big buck. I only missed once because of that, but it was a darn big antlered buck. Would a fast follow up shot helped? That's the kind of stuff stuff from slug users that would be nice to hear about. Not about physcis, or running a Hugo at Darlington.

I am asking about running a Hugo at Darlington becuase I want to know from other people that do this (whether by choice or by law) what are their opinions, preferences and experinces with type of shotgun, scope or iron sights, follow up shots and whether or not in the end they still prefer a using a slug gun from a tree stand over thier bolt rifle.

Every reply here, except WW's continuing rant, has been both appreciated and very helpful. They even brought up stuff I would not have thought about (like a 20 ga slug is going to be harder to find in local stores and probably kick more than a 12 ga).

Why would I start an argument here or anywhere about a subject I have no experience with?

Anyone who hasn't heard a foster slug whistle over head in a shotgun only area, has never much hunted in a shotgun only area.

Not everyone either, lays out the coin for the "rifle" type slugs and instead chooses the foster type because they are cheaper.

$12 to $20 for five shots vs. a box of plain old remington fosters for a quarter of that makes huge sense to the average econo hunter.

If that weren't the case then every gunshop in the land wouldn't be running slug sales year afer year along with their Mosberg pumpgun sales.....

Your inability to grasp the obvious is what's amazing.....

Partly because you come on a website asking opinions and advice but can't like some of the answers you get. Maybe you desired to have everyone follow your thread with puppy dog eyes and tails wagging, but that's not gonna happen here. Here you will always get an opinion that is not what you want to hear...

Personally I've never rattled myself by looking at a deer so I can't know your pain. I've also been in a tree stand or two and can't remember ever getting scared being up there, or getting scared about falling out if I shoot a gun. I've never launched a bullet at a cabin, or a cow, or a car...so I can't know exactly what you are talking about there either. The last place I'd choose to hunt is where I can hear kids playing in the distance, that just doesn't add up to me to be a good situation whether I'm using a rifle OR a shotgun.

My advice, that you so willingly refuse to read, is to forget the shotgun thing and source a rifle in a weight and chambering that you can do the job with....since you are in a rifle area. Find a place in your locale where you need not worry about people playing in the "woods", and start looking at deer until it doesn't bother you anymore to look at them......

Per using a rifle, you'll benifit from a more accurate hunting implement, less recoil, less chance of an accident occuring, and less chance of wounding an animal.

You can heed that or not as it makes no difference to me at all, you have tho', been led to water...........

I find the exact opposite...

Affixed to the receiver is optimal. Using another barrel for birds etc, the cantilever is the ticket.

Guys, thanks again for the input.

I still don't know why WW keeps ranting here. I don't mind hearing that I should forget the shotgun and slug idea and the reasons why. That's why I asked what users thought in the first place. If the general reply is it makes no sense to try it / use it if you don't have to, that is good to hear. Saves money. That is a good thing. What's wrong with hearing that?

I never said one thing about being scared in a stand. I do respect them and am cautious when up there. I don't hunt where children play, 50 acres is a good area to hunt, but not enough to totally block the sound of neighbors. Never said anything about recoil being an issue for me either.

Professor WW, acts like we all should follow his advice, ignoring every other opinion expressed here. When I stop getting excited about hunting and seeing a nice buck, then I will stop hunting. I saw another of WW's post about a his REM Ultra Mag. Why would you need a Rem Ultra Mag to hunt deer in VA? Guess a TSX from that drops right to the ground after it exits a deer? Not a good bullet for deer hunting IMO. They don't offer much expansion on deer. The core lockt's I loaded do a much better job.

Bullshitt like that, coupled with your apparent inherent non ability to read the english language, is only going to get you more of the same, was hopin' that you might coulda figured that out 3 or 4 chapters ago.......



Show me azzhole, where I posted that I killed any deer with a 300 RUM. Having one, shooting one, doesn't mean I hunted deer with it, and if I did....WTF is it to you? Quite a few on this site have, and do just that.....



Wrong website dude, for slammin' TSX's as they are quite popular here with folks that actually go Outdoors and actually do kill stuff. You stumbled on the notion of making sure there was a bullet stopping feature of natural composition behind your victim so it surprises me none that you can't grasp the effects of a passed thru bullet and where it goes after exiting.....despite your college education.

Am startin' to wonder here, if you even know which end the bullet comes out of.....

So as I've already tried to say a couple of other times, and it really hasn't sunk in yet, run a slug gun if it tickles your short hairs as noone here really give a [bleep] what you do in your treestand.

Post a pic tho', when you finally overcome your fears and kill something, we'd like to see it......

Who is slammin TSX's? I stated earlier I loaded them when I hunted CO and had complete confidence. TSX's are one of the most accurate bullets I have loaded so far. I used those TSX's I loaded for CO elk hunt on whitetail that fall. They drove right through the Whitetail with small exit holes. I have used other bullets on whitetail that seem to kill quicker. I doubt saying that is going to rub folks wrong that use TSX's.

Hopefully, I will get a chance to hunt out west again. The TSX is the bullet I will use with confidence. I have seen what they can do on big game and how accurate they can be.

Why the cuzzing now? Why call me an azzhole, while hiding behind a computer, for asking questions about deer hunting with a shotgun? I think you enjoy giving opinion and then attitude as if it makes you a better person. I don't care what you shoot. Just don't attack me and insinuate I don't put ground behind game and then rant about slug ricochet, as if the potential for a premium spitzer bullet going well over 3000 fps from a high power rifle can't do the same.

I do appreciate your opinion that it's better to save the money and keep shooting what I have, since buying a shotgun in your opnion isn't needed. I also received great opinions about what to try and why in case I want to buy and try a slug gun. If I go that route, the advice learned here will help and save some money too.

I can't believe you don't understand that, understand that other people with as much experience on the particular subject as you might have a different opinion, or appreciate that a website like this gives people a chance to learn about something new to them. You need to calm down with your high and mighty approach.

Well then, you've got it all figured out.....Kudos.

to whom it may concern, go have a beer, rub one out, releve some tension, then come talk!

What?

This discussion wasn't boring enough for you that you had to add your own special brand of stupid?

Finding the right slugs is key - you have to try a bunch of different ones to find what it shoots best. Rifled barrels require sabot slugs, which can be very expensive.

Last summer I bought my son a 20-gauge 870 Youth model with a fully rifled barrel. It shot some brands of sabot slugs very well. Even with all of my connections, the best price I could swing on slugs was $13.00 for a five-shot box. That's $2.60 PER ROUND. I like for the kid and I to shoot a lot before Opening Day, but I'm not going to spend his college tuition on the ammo, so I've been looking for a smoothbore gun with rifle sights.

A few weeks ago, I found one and I traded the little Remington away without a second thought.


Okie John

Whizzing contest notwithstanding.....there is a difference between most 20 gauge slug guns and 12 gauge....most of the 20 gauge slug bbls I have seen ( I did do a lot of diggin on this subject), have a 1:28 twist, almost ALL of the 12 gauge bbls have SLOWER twist rates, 1:32 or slower..

If I were going to buy a slug gun, it would be a 20 gauge for the above reason and the fact that they shoot the same velocity as the 12 gauge (sabot round). If you shoot a sabot round, the 12 gauge buys you nothing except for a better chance it won't shoot as good as the same/same in a 20 gauge.

You will get close to 2000 fps in a sabot 12 or 20 gauge round, for my money, I'd take the faster twist rate.

Essentially you have the same performance as a 50 cal smoke pole, shooting a 250 grain sabot using 150 equiv load. Which BTW also has a 1:28 twist rate. My Omega is shooting 1950FPS with a (2) 777 magnum pellets, 250 shock wave and with it's 1:28 twist, it shoots just a tad over 1" @ 100. It IS a 200 yard gun, and so would a similar slug gun in 20 gauge.

Ok, back to the whizzing contest boys......

Tony

Best option:

Get a muzzleloader, and you get better accuracy, better range, and better options (as well as the ML season) for deer, and get a scattergun for birds.

Don't try to hunt either, with the other. It can work, but why?

Bet one can fire a second shot from an 11-87 faster than from a muzzleloader... While the first shot should absolutely be the only one that counts, it's nice having options.

Indiana is legal for rifles as of last firearms season. Limitation is on cartridge case length. Complete listing of legal cartridges on Indiana DNR site. This is something they should have done back in the days of Foster slugs. Those Foster slugs are very richochet prone.

While shotgun slugs are more richochet prne, the manufacters have made good strides with introduction of the new slugs to eliminate much that problem. Many of the better slugs these days are merely pistol, or redesigned pistol bullets. And the power performance arena somewhere in the .44 mag to intermediate 45/70 performance perimenter.

I hunted with the 77/44 & .500 S.W. last season.

Availability of shotgun ammo might be a problem. I know it is hard to find the brand and type you want and sighted in with here, especially when deer season comes around.

Shaman got to disagree. Had too many of those old Foster whistle and buzz overhead or by me. Often hearing them richochet more than one direction. The new slugs are better, mostly because they are pistol bullets and/or a redesign of same as mentioned above.

Given that's it's legal to hunt with a rifle where he's looking to hunt, I can't see handicapping myself with a slug-gun on purpose.

If I had to, I'd take the ML over the slug gun for deer, time and time again.

That said, it's his money......

Yep, can totally agree that the newer pistol bullet loaded "slug" ammo is better, by leaps and damned bounds over the the old fosters....likely the reason I can stand to let the wife use her 20 gauge. that, and it's just easier for her than a ML.

BUT, even though the new slugs are more accurate, have more killitude, less likely to ricochet, and have a longer effective range....there are still downfalls with them.

1.)They are wicked more expensive and NOT everyone is going to buy them for that reason....

2.)They pretty much require a rifled barrel and a scope to make any kind of difference over fosters....

Even though WE here may all agree that the new slugs are better, NOT EVERYONE is going to buy them just for those two reasons. There are tons of guys in the woods in shotgun areas that ONLY buy foster slugs because they are cheaper, and, because why should they feel compelled to buy a new rifled barrel gun or a scope when the old sinle beaded bird gun has worked since Grandpappy's days?

That all skews the ricochet safety factor quite a bit, almost as if saboted slugs didn't exist at all.....and whistling slugs are pretty much common place in a shotgun only area. Probably why I grab my rifle and head up the road to rifle country.

The use of shotguns also breeds the deer drive mentality. Without the precision of rifles everyone is kinda forced in some way to gang up at some point and stomp deer like rabbits....producing in my opinion a way too unsafe atmosphere in the woods and fields. Have done it myself and have seen my share of 'too close". The last close call for me was about 18 years ago......

Have seen that style and attitude change as soon as rifles were allowed in several counties here. One county in particular was well known for deer driving, just about everyone did it right from legal light on opening day. And it was a freakin' war zone to put it mildly. When all of a sudden rifle were allowed, most of those people took a rifle and went still hunting or sat in stands. The same number of kills were happening but with far less shooting going on.

Rifles instantly made that county a safer county to hunt in.....

I will not buy the "shotguns are safer" thing, they just aren't, because human stupity and ignorance doesn't make them that way, and, there's enough proven evidence that slugs will likely ricochet and rifle bullets will more likely bury in a tree or the ground rather than ricocheting.....

Anyone who has ever shot steel with a CF knows about the lead splatter all around in front of the target about 2 feet out, there's no bouncing bullets seen skipping up little dust clouds off to the sides or coming back at you. I've seen foster slugs shot at swinging steel just once, and that was down right enlightening.........

Exactly...........

Thanks again for all the feedback. All in all, a lot of stuff for me to consider. The general opinion about the forster slugs buzzing around is good to hear. I looked into slug prices over the weekend. WOW. That's about all that needs to be said.

'Zactly.

Far more expensive; far less accuracy; far less range; far less "safe".....

I'd take a .223AI/TSX combo over a 12 gauge mag, ANY day.......

Can't disagree with that....

And given that such a combo is even legal in NC to hunt deer with, it'd be a no-brainer.....

A friend wanted to bring his new brother-in-law to WI northwoods for the deer opener and, and asked if could I find a suitable spot to place him.(WI north woods is rifle-legal) Well, brother-in-law shows up the night before the hunt with an 11-87 and no scope. He spent a pretty cold and fruitless first day overlooking a clearcut... Did manage to get a super buck chasing a doe across the clearcut at about 250 yards.................with his camcorder.....

Always use the right tools for the job.

I have hunted with a 11-87 12 ga. slug gun with the 21" rifled barrel, ATEC 2.8x10x44. I mainly use it in heavy cover with shots 75 yds or closer. The gun I have shoots Winchester PG 385 GR 3" shells into 2.5" groups at 100 yds. I have used the gun for about 5 years and like it. I'm considering putting it away and going to a 30-30 instead. The main reason is the recoil is wearing on me more than it used to and second the ammo is 20.00 for 5 rounds. I would have to agree with the posts from the guys that using a rifle would be better choice. If I had it to do over again I would have got the 30-30 over my slug gun in the first place. However I'm not going to kick it to the curb just yet, it might come in handy if NC changes some counties to shotgun only. There is a rumor going around that some of the central counties and some eastern counties will be shotgun only in the next 5 years.

then should all shot gun hunting w/slugs be banned? every gun has a purpose! ...same could be said about going too light,
ie .223ai... seen to many deer go too far w/.243, w/no blood trail (EVENTUALY died). yes there are better guns for the job but if you know your target why limmit ones self, we'er talking close range. slow, heavy, big dumps em in the dirt every time. 30-30 camp fire FRIEND!

Anyone shoot rifled slugs in a rifled barrel? Have a friend that says they are more accurate in his Mossberg 500...and they are cheap. Don't know if they can hurt the barrel..or pressure issues?

art

Back in the day I ran the Foster type slugs through a rifled tube on an 870 as sabot's were just coming into their own. For test purposes, I cut a handful of different manufacturers slugs apart to determine which product was the largest and would obvious "take" to the rifling better. (yes, even at 15 I had an accuracy "addiction") The Winchester's were the largest and the only slug that did not drop completely through the barrel when I slid them - they were, by far, the most accurate. They were also a beeeeotch to stand behind when shooting off of the bench....

SKane, that was a funny post..."yes, even at 15 I had an accuracy addiction." One thing that comes out in the post I have viewed and participated in, is how serious hunters and shooters take our sport. That is great!

Thought about using a 30-30. I bought a used several years ago, and shot all summer with it. I liked the round, but not the lever action. I kept coming back to my bolt action, and ended up parting ways with that Marlin.

How about a 35 Remington in a 7600?

That would be an interesting combo. To be honest, I didn't know about that chambering in a 7600.

It is one very slick combo. Action is nearly identical to the 870 Remington pump shotgun, and in the hand, it feels nearly identical as well.

The .35 Rem gives you better than .30-30 performance, but less than .30-30 recoil in the heavy 7600.

Accuracy is surprisingly good, on average, and it's about as finicky to feed as a fat kid at a buffet....

"Accuracy is surprisingly good, on average, and it's about as finicky to feed as a fat kid at a buffet...."



*LOL*

Grice Gun Shop (in PA) did a run of them a couple years back in 35 Remington. That particular model (they may very well have done some others) was a black synthetic stock carbine. I convinced a pard that he HAD to have one. Well, he obliged and now shuns his 700's for the 35 Remington when hunting deer and bear in WI and MN.

That is a funny quote VAnimrod...had me laughing good this morning. One in a carbine sounds even better.

Minnesota is divided roughly in half, North half rifle, South half shotgun. I live right on the line and hunt both sides. My son and I have been using Rem 870 20 ga for 12 years now, one a Wingmaster LW and one an Express Youth. Walmart had a clearance sale on Remington smoothbore slug barrels w/rifle sights - $50.00 ea - got one for each shotgun. We've used the cheapest Federal rifled slugs available with very good results.

Not intended as a long range weapon at all, but within it's effective range, very deadly. I've shot both 12 and 20 ga and believe the 12 ga to have much more recoil. I'm no expert but have been told that the ballistics for the 20 ga are actually better bacause mostly due to the excessively heavy slug weight of the 12 ga. Again no ballistic expert, but my personal experience has been very good.

Never used scopes on either, so I can't advise you on them, other than to say, be sure to get one made for a shotgun. The shock of a shotgun as with a muzzleloader is very different and harder on scopes that a rifle.

IMHO
Dave

I would handload 20 ga slugs if someone would supply adequate loading data.

You can buy the collets, bullets and Hodgdon 'Longshot' would be the go to powder. There has never been much demand for slug loading data but with the price of saboted slugs at $13.00 plus per box that needs to change.

Doc

VANimrod did very well recommending a 7600 to me in 35 Whelen several years ago. I truly love it. If you are a handloader like me, you can take a 35 Whelen and knock it back a few percent and end up with the equivalent of a hot 35 Rem. In doing so, I now have an awesome deer rifle with a lot of potential for down the road. It is much easier and safer to go that route than to start with a 35 Rem and try to work up.

It was very interesting to get the feedback about the 7600. Your comment about 35 Whelen is appreciated. Certainly creates a lot of options.

Pretty much my deal, except I bought another M500 combo gun (synthetic handles) on sale a few years back, that came with a cantilevered-mount, rifled barrel. Now I have a pair of M500s and can use the scoped deer barrel on whichever one I want to.

That barrel shoots 12ga Lightfield sabots very well. They are much cheaper than any of the premium loads and kill stuff fairly dead. Put an old 1.5x4X shotgun scope on it and the Lightfields will shoot into 2" at 100 yards.

We've had the same slug vs rifle haggle here in PA. The game commission hired an outfit to study the stats and found that shotgun slugs were involved in more incidents than rifle bullets. NY recently dropped its "shotgun only" requirement in most of the counties that border northern PA. No increase in accidents that I'm aware of.

Personally, I'd prefer a 12ga slug over a 20ga slug just for the increased "energy" and wound channel.

My slug gun is an Ithaca 37, rifled barrel with 1-4 leupold mounted on the receiver. I shoot 2 3/4 inch lightfield hybrids-very accurate. I really like the set up.
I prefer a scope mounted to receiver. If the gun is dedicated to deer, I would mount to the receiver, if yu plan on using it as multi purpose, cantilever is definately theway to go.

I tried everything I could in my Mossy 500 when I got the rifled barrel. My advice is to start cheap and work up. The orthodoxy on this is that rifled slugs like the Slugger won't do as well in a rifled barrel as slugs that were meant for rifled barrels, but you don't know until you try. I found Brenneke 2.75 slugs built for rifled barrels worked the best in mine, and second best were Remington 3" copper solids. That was 1996, and a few years after that I got land in Kentucky and my freezer is always full before OH Shotgun season starts. I have not revisited the problem since.

Some would say that given the prospect of having to toss slugs at the deer for the rest of my life, I left the state of my birth and spent my family's wealth so I would not have to fire another slug gun. This belies the reality: I did all this and made my move to KY so that I could fill my freezer three weeks earlier than my Ohio Buckeye neighbors and therefore be much warmer in my stand. I also did it so that I could hunt on Sundays--something that was still screwed up when I left. Either way you look at it, I still consider it a bargain.

Doctor Encore,

Check out this link:

http://gardnerscache.com/20ga_slug_reload_kit_100pcs_.html

I bought 25 of his 525 12ga slugs and loaded them at 1600 fps in AA hulls with Blue Dot and Win Red Wads. They printed 3" groups at 100 from my full rifled hasting BBL. Cheap, easy to load, and should pack a heck of a punch down range.

The 350 grners in the 20ga at 1450-1500 fps oughta pack a punch on anything out to 150 yards.

For 100 loads @ only $31.50(Slugs, Hulls, and Wads), it's hard to beat that price!

Good Luck

Reloader

Now, if we could get dies, bullets, matching sabots, load data, ect.....to load brass hulls. It'd almost be fun to screw around with a 20 gauge rifle.

http://www.gunshopfinder.com/savage/savage210F.asp

Ive got one of these and its sure effective with SABOT SLUGS

http://www.lightfieldslugs.com/lightfield/ecatalog/index.cfm?pageid=105&id=2

you can also load and cast your own
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000152654112

If I had the option of a rifle instead of a slug gun, it would be a no-brainer to go for the rifle instead- much more accurate and a lot less recoil. But that's not what you asked.

Shaman's advice & experience would mirror my own. I went through several mediocre slug guns and setups before my current (and hopefully last). I started with a smoothbore and added a saddle mount with a scope. Later used a screw-in rifled choke and got a little better accuracy. Finally bought the cantilever Remington fully-rifled barrel and shot well over $200 worth of slugs off of sandbags looking for what my barrel liked.

Each barrel is a law unto itself (the same as a rifle), but mine LOVES the Remington Buckhammer and will cloverleaf them at 100 yards! Never found any other combo or load that comes close- 3" maybe, but not cloverleafs. I suggested to a friend to try them and he and a friend of his had great results too.

Get a scope with a lot of eye relief, I'd suggest Leupold, but I used a 1.5-6X Burris Signature for years before switching to Leupold too.

It is time for me to bring this to a close. The feedback was very helpful. The major preference shown here is to stay with a rifle unless regulations force a change. Based on everything posted that makes a lot of sense.

I will say one major learning for me was about the high price of slugs.

I am going to look for a 20 gauge semi, but a standard barrel with chokes. Thanks again. Definately worth asking the question of those who have the subject background.

Here in PA there are rifle zones and shotgun zones. Funny rule is that you can not use a semiauto shotgun in a rifle zone for deer. So I have a rifled barrel Bennelli Super Back Eagle with a Leoupold VXIII 3X9 for shotgun zones and a rifled barrel Browning A-Bolt with a Leoupold VXII 2X7 for the rifle zones. I load the Bennelli with 385 grain Winchester Partition Gold Supreme's and the Browning with Lightfield Hybred EXP's which are all lead and 546 grains.

Never had anything I hit walk away from either of them. Both accurate out beyond 150 yards at the range but never had to shoot more than 110 yards at anything.

ROMAC, those are nice rigs you have. I haven't seen a Browning A-bolt in a while. Would be nice if they made those again. Thanks for posting your pics.

Yeah, that Browning is a tackdriver. I got it when Browning discontinued manufacturing them and dumped all their inventory at once to their major dealers. I looked up the reciept and saw that I paid $715 for it new with the scope and rings installed. I think my dealer had 10 synthetic and 10 walnut. At the time they were discounted to $450 for synthetic and $500 for wood. I wish I had bought a couple of them.

I've seen that they are now sky high dollars on the internet if you can find one.

I live in Iowa and you can only use shotgun here for the most part(not getting into the weird details). Anywho, I would love to get a bolt-action sluggun. I have been looking on the auction sites and those A-Bolts are really expensive IMO. Maybe I'll see one at the Tulsa gun show this fall for a better price.

DH-

For the price they're getting for the used ones, you can nearly get a Benelli SBE with a rifled tube. Money much better spent IMO.

I have both and I almost always take the SBE unless the weather is real bad cause the Browning has the synthetic stock.

I like it better during drives, and it is just as accurate for stand hunting. But like i said, if I am in a rifle zone and do not want to use a rifle I use the Browning because the SBE is illegal.

BOTH super-sweet rigs IMO.

Some guys are trying to get into slug hunting...........I'm trying to get out!
Got a little project getting started.

I know what you mean about buying a few of those A-Bolt slug guns back when they were being discontinued...I bought two model 70's during the November and December prior to Winchester closing their plant. Both stainless, and one a RMEF. One nearly tripled above what I paid and one the other doubled.

Anyway, great looking slug guns.

Skane,

Thanks. I'll check them out.

I passed on a Winchester super grade for $700 during that period, It was used/new, never fired. I'm left handed and it was a righty, plus I thought it was too heavy, and I'd rather spend the money on something that won't be just a closet queen. Anyway like you said it probably tripled in value since.

The wood was great and I really like how they inlet the sling studs in the stock. It was one I wish I hadn't let get away.

DeerHunterIA-

Prolly not telling you something you don't already know but there are no flies on the 11-87 or 870 with a rifled tube either.

Skane,

I've gone the 870 route. Not a big fan. Haven't tried a 11-87. 21" barrel seems short to me though. I'm a bolt-action guy that prefers 24 and 26" tubes, so i'm bias. (wonder what Freud would say about that :P )

*LOL*

Could always go the TarHunt route for a truly custom job.
Of course, that price is considerably more than the Browning.

www.tarhunt.com

I forgot to mention the Ithica deerslayer. Mine has the fixed barrel, but the older ones are common with an interchangeable barrel. Just about any Ithica can take an aftermarket barrel like a Hastings. Changing Barrels is a snap and you get a dual use gun, which can be real important for some folks.

I'll use it if I am gonna be doing a lot of deer drives through thick stuff and know I'm gonna be crawling half the time. It's nice and compact with the short barrel.

Don't think I haven't looked there as well! My gf keeps wanting me to buy her some silly clear "rock" though. I tried explaining her desire for this rock is really cramping my hunting plans.

Skane, the Tarhunt websight is where I got hooked on the Lightfield slugs for my A-Bolt, after a lot of testing they patterned the best in that gun. The terminal performance has been devistating. The slug beow took a buck straight on just below the neck center of chest where it plowed through the heart and literally exploded it flat as a pancake. I found the slug loose in the chest cavity cleaning it. I got lucky and found the wad in the snow walking to it. They popped right together.

Lots of fellers running the Lightfields in this neck of the woods as well. Actually, a pard shoots an A-Bolt and Lightfields. Great product and wonderful accuracy. I've sent quite a few down the tube of my 11-87 but settled on the Federal Premium with the Barnes boooolit tucked inside.

My 870 experience is limited. I had an upland version, short barrel and straight stock. Somehow, when kicking through some thick Western NC mountain brush, the slide release button got bumped. I watched the dog make a perfect point, a fat grouse flush and heard only a click when I squeezed the trigger.

I realized what happened and pulled the slide forward to lock, but it was too late.

I have not owned a pump since then.

too bad warren, you might have popped a few more grouse since then. pay attetion to the details, go for the oveer/unders that perform

I am certainly not an expert on this matter but last year I got drawn on a federal lands hunt that you had to use either a shotgun with slugs or a muzzleloader. I got a rifled choke tube for my Browning Gold Hunter .12 ga. and shot Remington Buckhammers.. Long story short..The BB isn't the best sighting device for a slug gun. Missed the nicest set of horns at 100 yards I have ever seeen in the woods. So I went out and bought a nice used Win 1300 12 ga rifled barrel slug gun with a cabelas 2-7 x 32 shotgun scope (4" of eye relief instead of 3" in their rifle scopes). I have got $245 in this rig. I have got several different sabots to try out in it and plan to practice if I get drawn for another of these hunts this year. I am not a big fan of a pump gun, but I think with practice its a 1 shot deal with a scope and within 100 yards anyway. I just didn't want to pay $500-700 for a semi auto slug rig for the little I would use it. Almost all my hunting is with Rifle and I use the Browning Gold Hunter for birds.

A word to the wise,lose the Cabelas scope,replace it with a Leupold and get a good set of bases and rings or you'll not be so happy extolling your $245 find

SKane,

Do you need to run slugs where you live? I turkey hunt in the Tigerton area and they have to use them there. Most guys I know around there run the 800 and 70's for just about everything.

I damn near bought a use Browning Gold wood stocked 20ga with a cantiliver last fall at a shop in Minneapolis for $575 bones. I did not have the cash with me though. I still regret it. It was one sweet rig, and it fit me perfect... damn it!!!

Tom

Read all 12 pages about slugguns/slugs[whew!]. Been using a slug gun, here in Indiana, since 1990. I bought one of the early Rem. 870sp. It had a rifled choke tube, instead of a fully rifled barrel. I've shot a ton of different slugs thru it, and it shoots the old winchester foster slugs as well as anything[plus they are cheap, relatively speaking]. The gun has the cantilevered scope mount[attached to the barrel]. I've killed over 35 deer with the ole girl, even though I could go with a pistol caliber centerfire, I think I will just keep what I got. Here's some pics of some bucks taken the last few years.



1 shot 145 paces



1 shot 65 paces



3 shots 120 yds.



1 shot 25 feet!

All of these bucks were taken with the above mentioned set up on the same property, over the last 8 yrs. Doesn't count the number of does taken on bonus county tags.

maddog

Tom, yeah, in NE WI, it is mainly slug country. But cross a highway here or there and it's rifle. I don't hunt around here during the gun season anyway, opting for my cabin in your neck of the woods. If I have my Kansas archery tag, I oftentimes just skip our gun season altogether.