Home
So I posted this on my weblog:

Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries
Quote

It is absolutely ludicrous to believe that deer are sensitive to UV. The mammalian eye simply is not built to resolve visible light AND UV light-- not to the extent purported. Deer do not have magic eyes. They see a lot like we do, except they see less red and more blue and green.

This is the classic case of somebody creating a need and then attempting to fill it.

I have a couple of books on deer hunting that devote whole chapters to this anti-UV craze. I'm sure the authors themselves were just reporting what was available at the time. If you go back and look at it, this craze was typical of hunting gadgetry. Somebody comes out with a product that promises no-UV brighteners added to their clothes. Then somebody comes out with a product that will kill UV brighteners already on your clothes. Then . . .

The fact of the matter is that UV-brighteners exist, but they're put on clothes to make them whiter than white and brighter-than-bright-- not something you'd do to the average camo material. At the time UV brighteners became the big bugaboo for hunters, women's fashion was big on white stockings. UV sensitive dies were put on the fabric to keep them from looking dull in office lighting. As a result, when they got out in the sunlight they'd fluoresce to the point of annoyance. I've been in the woods now for 26 seasons. I've never seen anyone's hunting clothes with that kind of day-glo.

That is with one exception. Why is it we go to such lengths to kill UV on all our other clothes and then don fluorescent hunter orange hats and vests? Has anyone ever stopped to think how silly this all gets? I can see an orange hat at a distance of a mile or more when it gets into the sun. I'm sure the deer can too. They just don't pay any attention to it. To them, it's just a BRIGHT gray (?). What is bright gray?

So now I spray UV Killer on it-- somehow this magic potion dulls one dye (the UV brightener) without touching any other color. Hmmmm. Selective bleaching. There's a trick! It kills the UV dye on my camo clothes, but does not touch the florescence of my orange vest. How do it know? How do it know?

Back in the 20's the canned tuna industry was a tight race-- nobody had clear leadership in the field. All tuna was pink. Then Bumble Bee Tuna accidentally came up with a way to bleach tuna and turn it white. They didn't mean to. It just happened that way. Stuck with bleached tuna, somebody in the marketing department came up with an idea. Their ad campaign: "Bumble Bee Tuna-- Guaranteed not to turn pink!" Bumble Bee got on top and stayed there for years. I'll leave you to ponder that one.




Later in the day, I got this posted as a comment:

Quote

Dan said...

Dear Shaman,
If you believe your readers would be interested in a two sided discussion of U-V-Killer and the science of deer vision, I will try to engage in a conversation.
In any case it would be only fair to direct them to Atsko.com where the dvd and book and hundreds of references in juried periodicals are all available at no cost.
Sincerely,
Dan Gutting, Atsko Inc.
Mon Sep 22, 03:48:00 PM 2008



Dan:

I'd love to have that discussion. I've already been on Atsko.com I did what your demo video suggested and took a bunch of my camo and put it under a UV light. Zip. Nada.

Some of this stuff is 20 years old. Some is fairly recent. None of it fluoresced the way the camo your video suggested. What am I doing wrong?

I also tried a bunch of my other clothing, and only a small number of white and light blue shirts had the glow under my UV light.

Normally, I only use Sodium Bicarbonate to wash my hunting clothes. Could that have something to do with it?

Write soon. Write often.


if I don't worry about UV light, then the darn deer should not either.
Did that UV stuff exist when I started killing deer back in the mid fifties? Deer did not give a hoot then either.
Shaman,

I believe UV killers have been used by sucsesful deer hunters since the 20s.

Im not the kind to call a man out without proof.

So I present you with this.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
sure, next you're going to tell me they had scent lock too... laugh
Coffee hurts as it comes out of your nose.

Would you all mind if I reposted your comments and pics on my weblog?

BTW: Feel free to join in yourselves at:

Post a Comment

I'm sure Dan would love to hear your opinions of UV-suppressing products.

Originally Posted by shaman
Coffee hurts as it comes out of your nose.




SO laughin'........

Yeah, it does, don't it? Good to know I'm not the only person in the world to have experienced that wonderful sensation......
Originally Posted by Grogel_Deluxe
[Linked Image]


Ohhh shnapp! dem brudda's got a fotey of da anti-bling! Go on now wiff yo bad non shiny selfs!

grin

VA: You know, this really has me bugged-- this Dan guy.

On the one hand, I figure that if the product really was effective, they wouldn't have a spokesman out trolling around weblogs looking to squelch negative comments.

Can you imagine Remington coming after the "SUCKS" crowd?

On the other hand, I'm all for live and let live. I constantly poke fun at stuff that makes no good sense to me-- especially gimmicky products like UV-Killer. On the other hand, I'm perfectly happy to let folks sell whatever they want as long as it's not dangerous.

It really isn't dishonest anyway:

I'll grant you that deer may see UV better than humans.
I'll grant that some clothes and perhaps some camo clothing has UV brighteners
I'll grant that many detergents put "Brighteners" (UV dye) in their clothes.

I just have not seen the proof from anywhere including the Atsko website that any of this seriously effects hunting. What you have is an invisible bugaboo that only the company's product can alleviate. I even went as far as going down turning a blacklight on my clothes-- zip, nada. My white shirt glowed. The detergent glowed, but my hunting stuff washed in sodium bicarb? Bumpkus. Pass me the can of elephant repellent.

So there I am in bed this morning. I wake up a tad early and the first thing I have in my head is "What's Dan going to do today?"

I have half a mind to offer to wear a day-glo orange clown suit on the stand and hang a UV-Paint sign that says "DANGER: Hunter! Run for your Life" in the tree as long as Atsko is willing to take out the full-page ad space to show my kill shots.



Then I come in and fire up the confuser and get Grogel Deluxe's pics.


"Would you all mind if I reposted your comments and pics on my weblog?"

If it will help set the record straight, go right a head. wink



I heard that the truth shall set you free, seems it will also set coffee free.
And you can tell Dan I like snow seal for my choppers.
snow seal on choppers...now I've heard it all. grin
Shoot, most of the deer I've killed in 40years of hunting were dispatched while eating candy bars or smoking cigarettes and NOT wearing any camo, or scents, or scent-blockers or with a cartridge that had magnum in it's name. In short, doing everything the "wrong" way. Don't even get me started on "UV-blockers!"
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Shoot, most of the deer I've killed in 40years of hunting were dispatched while eating candy bars or smoking cigarettes and NOT wearing any camo, or scents, or scent-blockers or with a cartridge that had magnum in it's name. In short, doing everything the "wrong" way. Don't even get me started on "UV-blockers!"



BTW: Feel free to join in at:

Post a Comment

I'm sure Dan would love to hear your opinions of UV-suppressing products.

Well I use one of the poplular sports washes that has a UV inhibitor (sp?) in it. I don't really see it as a waste though. I too think the science is sketchy, but look at it this way. The Sports wash does not smell like a "Clean Breeze" or "Mountain Fresh" like the shirt I am wearing right now.

So by using one of the name brand sports detergent my Camo hunting clothing has none of these deodorants added. Thats a good thing that I can see a real difference with my nose.

(Then I store my close in a rubbermaid tub with a few cedar saplings sticks, but that's another discussion.grin )

Anyway even if the UV brightener thing is a gimick, I am still getting a usefull product, by virtue of the missing deodorants.
Something you guys left out was that they didnt put brightners in materials until the 60's or 70's.
Check this out.

http://www.atsko.com/articles/animal-vision-and-smell/how-game-animals-see-smell.html
I think UV killers are pretty much obsolete any more. More and more companies no longer put UV brightners in laundry detergent. Just ask any US soldier, and they can probably give you a list of about 25 different detergents that contain no UV brightners.
Originally Posted by tzone
snow seal on choppers...now I've heard it all. grin


You dont like dry choppers??
I use it too, that is why there was a smiley face. I put it on my work boots also.

Tom
Your everyday detergents do still have brightners in them, and some material they make our camo from comes from China now a days so they have brightners in them normally. As the military camo goes they don't have brightners to begin with, but washing them in regular detergent puts the brightners in it. It specifically says on the inside of the military camo not to wash them in a detergent with brightners.
From www.tide.com

Question
Do you make any laundry detergents that don't contain optical brighteners?

Answer
Optical brighteners are commonly used in laundry detergents to enhance fabric appearance and maintain whiteness or brightness. We understand there may be situations in which a detergent without these brightening agents is needed. The following detergents do NOT contain optical brighteners:

Bold Powder
Cheer Original Liquid
Cheer with Bounce Fresh Linen Scent Liquid
Cheer Free & Gentle Liquid (but not HE)
Cheer Dark Liquid
Cheer Powder (all versions)
Tide Free Liquid (except Tide HE Free)


I ordered some bars of plain 'ol lye soap. See http://www.texassoap.com/ There's nothing in it but lye, lard, and water. No added smells and no UV brighteners. A neighbor once made lye soap, and I used it to wash clothes in my washing machine. Just throw a bar in with the dirty clothes and take it out before the rinse cycle starts.

From now on, I'll use it on my camo when it's really dirty. Plain 'ol dirty gets plain 'ol warm water. I'll continue to wash my underwear and regular clothes in Tide "Free."
The plot continues on my weblog, Genesis 9:2-4 Ministries :


Quote
Blogger Dan of Atsko said...

Dear Shaman,
Thanks for the invitation.
So you're not seeing much glow on your camo. Maybe that's a good thing.
How about your blacklight. Is it a screw in bulb like a std 60 watt incandescent bulb? If so, it makes very little UV light and a lot of short blue light. It will light those psychodelic posters from the 70s , but only a small percentage of the 200 compounds used in cloth, paper, and laundry products.
If you have a dark purple fluorescent tube that is marked 350BLB or an LED from Atsko you may have a lot of good camo reguardless of the pattern.
I check back,
Dan of Atsko

Tue Sep 23, 01:38:00 PM 2008
Delete
Blogger shaman said...

Dan,

I've got the 60 watt incandescent bulb. I've had it for years over the laundry, because I read an article years ago. The detergent the wife uses glows like all get out, but not the hunting clothes. Never has.

None of my camo, old or new glows. What's up with that?

Could it be the way I wash the clothes?

Tue Sep 23, 07:10:00 PM 2008
Delete



Quote

Anonymous Dan at Atsko said...

Dear Shaman,
Nothing is conclusive because you are using an incondescent bulb.If nothing glows at all you may have "selected" clothing over the years that you were successful with. I would suggest that the reason why you were successful with these pieces may be that they don't glow. If you have any interest in evaluating your need for U-V-Killer or the effectiveness of it you will need to get a 350BLB flourescent light.
Sincerely, Dan

Tue Oct 28, 12:27:00 PM 2008
Delete
Blogger shaman said...

Dan, it just so happens that I've been hitting Hancock fabrics for 20 years, picking up swatches of this and that when their camo remnants go on sale. Some are name brand camo patterns , some are no-name stuff. I just found it handy to have camo fabric around for making blinds,etc. My collection goes back to Crumley's earliest Tre-Bark in 1986.

I tried everything. Not only the fabric, but all my clothes. I mean EVERYTHING, and could not get a glow. On the other hand, the white bed sheets glow, the laundry detergent glows. Some of my wife's clothes glow.

If you want to send me your 350BLB light, some UV Killer, and whatever else you want, I'll be happy to review it for my weblog, and I will also submit the review for publication in all the venues where I am currently being published.

I'm also perfectly happy to let this whole thing drop. You can color me an unrepentant skeptic-- live and let live. For my part, I just wrote a review of Dave Samuel and Roger Zaiglin's book, White tail Advantage and politely left out any comment on their glowing endorsements of your product line.(pun intended)

On the other hand, you can send me a day-glow UV-radioactive clown suit, and a big day-glo UV painted sign that says "DANGER: HUNTER" and I'll wear the suit and sit in my treestand under the sign all during season as long as you agree to publish all my kill photos in full page ads wherever you are currently advertising. Frankly, I do not think the clown suit or the sign will make much difference to my success as long as I can treat them with a little baking soda to get the stink off.

I'm not the Myth Busters. In fact, I am a practicing shaman; we live for myths and rituals. This all looks like a hunter doing some arcane cleansing ritual to get rid of the unseen evil spirits to me. I dig that. I would not want to see UV Killer go away anymore than I would like to hunt under a sky devoid of Orion.

Write soon. Write often.

Tue Oct 28, 02:35:00 PM 2008
Snow Seal is ok on choppers and boots, but Pecards is better.

[Linked Image]

Tip of the day: Remember how your mom used to tie a string between your mitts - it ran through your sleeves, so you wouldn't lose/drop them?
Yeah, still a good idea.

© 24hourcampfire