Don't know if it should be here or in Hunting Rifles, but this subject seems to come up frequently.

This thread could become a resource for the millions of worrisome souls prowling the Web concerned about calibers less than 6mm being used on game.

While the most recent two deer I shot were taken with a .375 I'm not among those who believe a .243 is marginal and a .223 is immoral and foolhardy.

I think if your game department says it's legal you should use whatever you want.

This is still America for a little while longer.

Good idea...I use a .22 centerfire alot...and subsequently post alot in various threads...

Ingwe

While I am not for a sticky thread on the topic at all I will start.

In 1954 I shot a buck in the ribs at about 100 yds with my 222.

The buck ran off. That was at about 9 AM. We searched there all that day and the next day and never found the buck. That was the end of it for me shooting large game with an inadequate cartridge. The next year I got a buck there in VT with my 06.

"A man should hunt with all the gun that he can shoot well"

Legal calibers in the states I hunt start at .243. Can only use .22 on small game. Can't even use .22mag or larger on Yotes.

CLB

REALLY ? Can't use a .22 mag or larger on coyotes???

WTF?

Wow.....

Ingwe

Don't you mean that we can't use larger than a .22 LR in our state forests in CT? There we can use shotguns with up to #2 shot.

On private land of 10 acres or more, with permission, we can shoot larger centerfire guns at game.

CT state laws on hunting with firearms

We can use falcons to hunt with. There is no limit on the size of the falcon!

I dont have any sticky pics of deer shot with 22 cf's.

I have some sticky pics, but I'm not posting those.

I see the reg as it pertains to our state land. I also read it as it refers to DEER hunting on Private land with larger calibers etc...The way I'm reading the reg, it still limits the use of calibers to .22LR maximum on private land for small game. Is that not correct??

Most of my small game has come from state land anyway.

CLB

Doooood.....


Ingwe

Hey ingwe, why don't you start a .22 CF pic thread here or on hunting rifles? My only decent shot is one of my son with a doe he killed couple seasons back with a 16-in. Colt HBAR. He's about a foot taller and much slimmer now, so I'll have to check if he wants his former cute but chubby self on the 'net again.

You and a couple others got me thinking about just using a .223 or .22-250 exclusively for awhile and for everything.

Don't worry Ingwe....you've seen em already.

I also am interested in knowing the specific facts that we are talking about so lets hash it out.

I always thought that verbal permission was all we needed in CT for private land woodchuck hunting with any caliber rifle. During the deer season written permission is required.

Now I read that 17 rimfire is ok on state land where the .22 LR is the maximum.

What do you recall about the maximum shot size allowed on state land for say coyotes in the past? I read now that #2 shot is allowed as the largest.

I'll see what I can dig up later today for you. I'm not about shot size as I never hunted anything but birds with a shotgun.

Hunting deer on private land we can use anything from .243 on up, but I'm pretty sure small game and varmints get the .22LR limit regardless of where we hunt.

It's a shame if true, because I'd love to bust some Yotes this winter!!!

CLB

I think that hunting in CT with a centerfire rifle on private land for 'chucks' has been ok, with permission, since the 1950's at least. I know of no change in that.

Let me know when you are ready, I have scads of pictures of 22-250 deer kills shot with 50gr TNT's. Everyone of them were dead right there. My 270WSM doesn't even always do that.

Post 'em KSmith. While I am happy Connecticut has stupider game laws than Tennessee, it's way off topic.

The point of this thread is things being made "former" via .224-caliber projectiles.

Really want to see some .22-250 work; decided to just give my son a recently acquired 788 in that caliber rather than try to find him something brand new.

Okie Dokie...forgive me if youve seen these,Ive posted them before...here ya go!









The dog is in alot of them cause she is always with me, and can't operate the camera...

Ingwe

Hadn't seen the muley, but keep 'em coming. That is a dang good dawg. I couldn't take my Jack Russell out with me. Crazy bitch wants to kill everything herself.

Please don't !!

My first two Whitetails were an 8 and a 6 point back 2 back days with a 220 Swift, an incredible cartridge.

221 FB at 100 yd...or maybe he drowned....or both...

No worries bro. The CT folk will take it to PM's for ya....

CLB; it's cool. Think y'all should start a massive call-in and letter campaign to your wildlife commission's board. We have some silly laws that need changing too. Like no night hunting for any varmint but 'coon and that's only with dogs, nothing bigger than T in shotguns for anything, etc.

Meanwhile, Steelhead your odd but attractive stocks are getting me tore up! I may see if anybody local can do a custom paint job on my planned ultralight AR. If your rifles ain't scaring game...hey do you use the bright ones on predators?

Jed, there's no way a Fireball could kill a massive Northern whitetail like that!

Since we are talking .22 centerfire kills, and not just the .22-250 ( I know a couple of Steelheads were taken with a .223 AI...which he by the way has now talked ME into..) Ill throw in a couple pics of garden variety .223 kills....







Ingwe

I don't have any pictures, but I have a Remington 700 varmint rifle in .223 that has 3 deer under it's belt. Two head shots that were obviously DRT and my buddy shot one behind the shoulder with a 50 grain ballistic tip and it took maybe 3 stumbling steps before hittin' the dirt. They work with good shot placement and an accurate rifle wich is common in varmint type rifles.

no pics but lots of large hogs with the 22 mag.

221 FB...

22 Savage HP..SE AK...

22 WMR...

Not too shabby....

(grin)

I've got more.....220 swift

I like that pic

That's a friggin' BEAST!

Another .220 swift buck...

You have put the whack on some very impressive critters. Thanks for sharing them with us.

Stunt shooter........

Steelhead...thats funny!

Why am I getting the impression that late season is the shizzle for big mulies....

We get to hunt the rut here.....

A hardon will take a man places he wouldn't go with a machine gun. Works the same way with deer......

My bud Owen posing with the buck I shot last November...220 swift

Good Lord...........................

.220 swift.....

I guess it's safe to say that you have an affinity for the Swift?

VA, I would say I used to....I hunt with larger rifles now for the most part. Mainly to be able to shoot farther and still make clean kills.

That old Sako remains close to my heart...

Mother of God, hoss! If I buy one of these "Swifts" will you ride the ammunition for it around in your truck for good luck, Karma or WTF ever?

The headgear is making my eyes blur and my heart go pitty pat! What are the specs on your rifle and preferred B&C loads?

Glad I gave the .22-250 to my son, I need a BIG game rifle.

CC, That old rifle is an L579 Sako that I bought new in 1978. I've wore out 7 barrels with it....#8 is a Lilja #6 taper and it needs to be replaced soon. It still shoots about .7 moa but the bore scope shows there ain't much throat left. The last 4 barrels have been .220AI. The glass on it right now is a 10X42 S&B with cross hair and a dot. It was my primary coyote rifle for many years and has more than 1800 coyote kills to its credit.

The heaviest critter.....so far...grin!

Steelhead,

Thanks for the pixs as I never get tired of looking at the bumble nee..great looking rifle.

SS,

What about bullet choice, etc. The deer were impressive, then the black bear and the last photos just blew me away. How about some specifics on shot placement with the buffalo

SS - Like ChipM I am curious about the bullet and load(s) you use in your Swift. I have a Swift in the cupboard that sees little use. Might be an interesting change.

Jim

.223'd a few days back. Typical 30 yard death dash and it's over in 15 seconds...

Greg...you gotta love a double header!

What bullet?

Ingwe

.22-250'd...

90% of every head of deer my family has taken in the last 15 years (dad and 4 boys) has been with a .22 centerfire. Losing a deer has never even come close to happening. I could post endless pics like the above. Notice good shot placement and an exit which is typical. I can't help it if you can't shoot or pick a bad bullet.

It really is that simple folks. Big, small, it doesn't matter. Deer die easily...

Hey Ingwe. Hope things are well friend.

We usually do a double or triple header on sausage making day...grin...

In fairness, one was 6x45'd and one was .223'd...

This is the 4th deer taken with a 6x45 with a 75 Sierra Varminter HP and at 6x45 velocities, the results are pretty good. I've had exits all 4 times and the insides were smoothie'd. Might be a real sleeper of a bullet at low velocities.

.223 bullet was a Winchester Power Point if I recall correctly...

Greg, thanks for the quick reply...and I understand perfectly about "sausage day"...

I see when you go up to the bigger deer, you step up to the "big gun"...the .22-250....


Sounds familiar...




Ingwe

Awesome pics posted here.

Here is a 8 point whitetail buck that was chasing the doe that is also in the truck. Doe came bouncing out with the buck following. When I raised my rifle the buck stopped and looked at me then dropped his noise to the ground and started following the doe grunting all the time.

Bullet entered behind the last rib and stopped in offside shoulder. The doe stopped broadside and the 55 grain Hornady left a quarter size exit in the offside ribs. Only downside was my season was over the first morning of rifle season.

A Sooner State version of Romeo and Juliet? Their love was denied when they set a suicidal course through the woods. Awesome.

Details on caliber, rifle, range, etc., please RNF?

This could turn into a thread that people post as a link all over the 'Net for a reference when folks argue .22 CFs don't work on deer, hogs, bears or even bufflers when applied correctly.

Most deer, especially this side of Old Man River, are shot under 100 yards. A light kicking and accurate rifle will kill cervids and other thangs handily...

ColdCase1984,

The caliber was 223 in a CZ 527 American 21 inch barrel. The load was 26 grain H335 with Hornady 55 grain sp. Buck was at 60 yards and fell in his tracks, doe was about 85 yards and ran about 50 yards before falling.

I usually carry the 223 on doe days and larger caliber on buck only days. Not that I don't think the 223 can get it done I just enjoy them all.

Most of the critters I posted were shot with the 55gr Hornady Spire Point loaded to about 3800fps. I've also had good luck with the 60gr version as well....thats what the Bison was shot with. I like broadside rib shots...I try to stay out of the shoulder when I shoot big game with my swift. Another good bullet is the old Sierra 63gr semi point...I've never messed with Barnes much at least in .22 centerfires.

.22 centerfires arent for everyone but in the proper hands they will work fine. The bottom line IMO is make good shots and know your personal limitaions.

Here's my youngest a couple seasons back with the 1st doe he took with a Colt HBAR 16-in./Schmidt & Bender CQB SD LE/Hornady TAP 75 gr. combo. It worked quit well...He is at least a foot taller now and will soon begin campaigning the as-new Remington 788 .22-250 full time (he took two slickheads with it last January) too late for photos, though I got pics of the deer the next morning.

My buddies call him Killer Connor

scenarshooter,

Next thing you know, you'll mumble something about shot placement being important...or some other such urban myth (grin). An awesome collection of animals you've posted, congrats on your success and thanks for sharing.

Savage 22HP this Nov.

So far, the smallest caliber I've used on deer is the 250-3000. I shot an 87 grain Hornady spire point. I hear allot of whinning that a 100 grain bullet is more suitable. They say the 87 is a vatmint bullet. If it is, my experience is that it is devastating on deer. Greg, I am glad you GET it. Deer ARE easy to kill. Big bombs are not needed. As soon as I come across a 22 centerfire that "floats my boat", I will join the ranks of the elite and kill a deer with a 22 centerfire. You guys will get no argument from me. Congratulations to the 22 group.

Plain .223 - Red deer...





Fallow deer...





...and a tasty little piggy.

Oldest daughter with her '09 Utah muley killed with a 53gr TSX out of a Ruger M77 .22-250 (tang safety), Leupold VX1 4-12x40mm LRD.

I know two guys that hunt specifically with a 22/250 on deer. One shoots a model 700 with the 60g NOsler partition loaded with 39.0g of IMR 4350 with a win primer, and the other shoots an old Sako with Rem factory Core Loct ammo.

They both kill at least 12 deer a year here which is legal.

My brother, which is a very accomplished shot, killed a 120 lb doe here last year at 230 lasered yards with an AR -15 loaded with a 62g(?) tripple shock, which was DRT.

Personally, I shot several Antelope with a 223 with a 55g Winchester and a 22/250 AI loaded with a 55g Sierra BTHP(tough bullet). These antelope were all bang flops.

ONe thing that I have noticed about the guys that hunt with 22 C.F.'s is that they shoot their rifles much more than anyone that shoots the standard "big game" rifles.

.223ai w/75g SSII.

Steelhead: Those are some great looking Rifles!
Now about those paint jobs (colors!) on the stocks - are you afraid YOU are going to lay one of your Rifles down and loose it OR do you just dance to the beat of a different drummer?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Keith, how 'bout some pics of those critters.

Me and youngest finished out the deer season today with a romp through grandpa's woods. He carried his brother's .270 Ruger 77 Tang Ultralight since we were stillhunting and all we have for his .22/250 is 55 gr. Rem. Express SPs at the moment. All I carried was my pre-lock 629 Mountain Gun.

The wind changed from NE to WSW and the small group we expected to waylay winded us and we never saw them.

The Young Sportsman's Hunt is next weekend and hopefully we will be on a productive stand and will have some photos of a truckload of deer. He's got an S10 and can take 3 on this hunt...

SuperSeal110, your rifle is badass and that is a NICE whitetail.

Uhmm question for you guys who are using the .223rem for deer hunting. why don't you just download your larger caliber rifles? Im sure there has to be reduce/youth loads for the 308win/270win/30-06. This not a knock against using the 22centerfires for deer, just wondering why chose not download/reduce loads in larger caliber?

scenarshooter,
What would you say is maximum range with the Hornady 55 gr @ 3800 fps? ( for a clean kill on deer)
I have some loaded up for my 220 Swift Ruger #1.
whelennut

Here is a cull doe taken on my farm with a Ruger 1B .22 Hornet. The load was an older 45 gr. Barnes X and Lil Gun for 3,000fps. This is a good load to 200 yards on our little whitetails.

Why download a 30/06 when a 223 works so well?

hmm..mainly because I was thinking bigger bullet= bigger hole, which would allow better chance of exit wound thereby leaving bloodtrail, not having to wait for the broadside shot. From various posts, it looks like only the tsx bullet in the 223rem is the only which has a good chance to leave exit wound?

Having shot a lot of deer with 12 ga slugs and having a few run a ways with two very large wounds in and out, I'd say as long as your shot is placed well the results are the same; "More" doesn't always equate to deader.

I've seen 35 Whelens with 250's not go through broadside on deer sized stuff....

Have gotten exits from the TSX in .223 and .22-250...exits are a virtual certainty..
Have also gotten exits from 55 gr.TBBC,numerous 60 Gr. Hornady Soft Points, and have seen exits from the 60 Gr. Nosler Partition...

Ingwe

[quote=whelennut]scenarshooter,
What would you say is maximum range with the Hornady 55 gr @ 3800 fps? ( for a clean kill on deer)
I have some loaded up for my 220 Swift Ruger #1.

If you know you can nail the ribcage (broadside) I would go out to 350 yards.

I can say that I've had more deer drop right nor or within a few steps with a 223 than with a 30/06. Of 4 different slugs used I've only recovered one. I don't wait for perfect broadside shots, I throw them right into the bony sections.

Cool! Thanks for the feedback on the.223rem on deer!

My experience is pretty much the same as Steelheads...hit properly with a proper bullet, deer seem to die exactly as fast with the .223 as they do with the .30-06
Indeed Ive gotten uniformly good results with a .22-250 and a TSX..shot right deer go 10-50 yards and expire...
Next project for deer is the .223AI he talked me into...

Ingwe

Dood,

222 Magnum.....

Shhh, wait till he gets the 223AI finished...

I know...I know...

Darn near bought a vintage Rem 722...but the price was a bit much....


Ingwe

Im about to load up a bunch of shells to fire form...checking in with the smith in the morning...


Ingwe

Don't shoot your eye out.

Twist'er fast....

The barrel, not your crank....

You get your nurse OK'd yet?

I'm not sure if I'm gonna ask for that to be deciphered or not..


I'm still thinking...


Ingwe

You need to act.

Make the wifey think.

Remember, if she don't talk to ya for days she's just thinkin!

So, youre sayin I should get the tight twist on the .223 AI AND buy the .222 Mag????

I bought her a standard deuce, so she oughta be good with that....



Ingwe

Naw,

Theyz both too close....

She ought to be good with the nurse idear then.

Shes got the uniform...

And the pinky cheaters....



Ingwe

Pinky cheaters?

Is that something that only goes to a knuckle??? (grins)

If you have to ask.......



Ingwe

Two questions; Anyone shot the 50gr. TSX and will a 1-12" twist handle the 53gr?

Have not seen a 50 gr TSX...is it a new introduction?

As for the 53 grainer...Ive shot lots out of 1 in 12 in the .223... and been with freinds and their guns doing the same...they work fine in a 1 in 12 twist..

Also been shooting them with good effect out of a couple 1 in 14 twisted .22-250s

Currently have a 1 in 12 twist .223 in the shop to get AIed...
( The "Steelhead" influence...) It will be shooting the 53 grainers as well..

Ingwe

I still have a stash of the 50gr. X and XLC's and if you can find them, they've run with acceptable accuracy (1 MOA)from 1-14's.

Today, in a 1-12 the 53 TSX; in a 1-14 the 45 TSX.

I am about to send my CZ 527 off to be AIed myself. The 50gr TSX is listed at Midway.
Barnes 50gr TSX @ Midway

Sweeet!


Thanks for the link!.....Learn something new every day...

Now...I wonder how they will work on deer out of my wifes .222

Just went and checked, Barnes has it on their new updated website too..Veddy cool! More options!

Thanks again!

Ingwe

Anyone found out the difference between the TSX and the TAC=X?

I meant to post a few photos of this year's kills with the 62gr TSX via 223AI. Most have been involved in other threads.









I had given serious consideration to building a sporter weight 22-250AI to fling the X bullets, but with the lightweight TTSX's now being available in 6mm and .257, I probably won't. I doubt there is significant difference between a 70gr .224TSX at 3400+ and an 80gr .244TTSX at the same speed. Were I to build another .22cal it would likely be a fast twist sporter in 223AI. They are mild to shoot, but pretty tough on the receiving end....

I have emailed Ty at Barnes about the difference in TSX and TAC-X bullets. As soon as I hear back from him I will let you know.

BTW, I also just noticed at Midway they have a 35gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Awesome pics JP....love to see those kids out there!!!

Ok, Ty from Barnes responded and said the only difference in the TSX and the TAC-X is the packaging on the box!

Kinda makes you wonder...why?

But its good info...thanks for passing it on!


Ingwe

I have personal knowledge that an agency in my area stopped using a particular brand of .223 because it was marked as a varmint hunting load. Perhaps that is a reason?

JPro, love those pig shots and your awesome youngster. Keep an eye out, my little girl went from 3 to 17 in about 15 minutes it seems.

I have posted these before....usually when somebody posts something about .22 centerfires being suitable only for use by experts, blah, blah, blah.

My then-eleven year old son used only a .22 Hornet in RSA back in 2001 to take six head of plains game with seven shots. Mostly got exits, with the mighty 46 grain Win. factory soft point. Most animals just tipped over, after they quietly bled out. Little ones bang flopped.

I used it on a wildcat and a jackal...worked fine on those too. Placement is everything. Caliber, not so much.

Radical concept Steve...

Ive got a PH freind over there who culls with a Hornet, up to and including Kudu...and he doesn't use our fancy American "premium" bullets...just takes head shots...

Cool pics BTW

Ingwe

Ah Ingwe, you've worked around enough cops to know that...It's gotta be "tactical".

If they can figure out how to put velcro on the box, they'd sell a lot more...

Honest to God...I know you are right about this one Blue..

Thats what I feared....

You will still find in use some "tactical" rounds shooting Swift A Frames, because they deflected less through glass-at any angle- than anything else...

I have heard some tests with Barnes did well too...

Kinda like Cargo Pants=Civilian Models and...

BDUs= LE models..

Trust me, theres a LOT of stuff that we lump under the category of " Tacticool"....


Ingwe

It's the Roy Weatherby theory that makes fast .22 centerfires work so good. A little bullet driven at warp speed will make mush of the vitals with correct bullet placement. They can't go too far after that.

Or, a head shot just below the eye usually tends to over-pressurize their brain.

Not so sure about fast, at least not by today's standards. The 75's are going right at 3K, about par with many cartridges.

Not so sure either...this oughta open a can-o-worms but it is the age old expend energy in the critter, or full penetration contest.
Depends on the booilt what is going to happen. Heavy/ slower tends to plow on through( see; bug on winshield theory..) fast and fall apart tends to gel stuff, TSX any weight, moderate to high velocity seems to drill a nice uniform wound channel..
And has been posted...a shot near the eye with anything tends to over pressurize the brain!

Bottom line...go with what works for you!

I know...not exactly sheer profundity, but its the best I could come up with on a pre-caffiene post...

Ingwe

"Expend energy in the critter".....thats perfect!! As was the case with this 10" B&C Mountain Goat....killed quickly and cleanly with one broadside shot delivered by a .22/250 from about 100 yards. A fluke?...hardly. A lot of goats are shot with rifles and bullets designed for thick skinned African game, thus they are dubbed as one of the toughest animals to kill only because the bullets pass through and expend most of their energy into the rocks...

Nice goat for sure.

As a kid, the family down the street killed all their deer with a 22-250 and a 222 Rem Mag. Several members had developed nice flinches with .300 Magnums and had fallen back on their .22's as a last resort. They stacked up a lot of venison with those two rifles and swore to the effectiveness of 55gr Remington factory stuff.

Speaking of 55 grain Remington factory stuff that's what we were going to use in my son's 788 .22/250 tomorrow morning, but it's been so rainy we're thinking about just packing the LaRue Stealth.

It's zeroed for 55 grain Rem SPs and that's what I was thinking to use, but just remembered got a box each or Silver State Armory loaded with 63 gr. Sierra SMPs and 77 gr. Hornady...gotta find 'em now!

Which load would you diehard .22-cal. deer zappers give the nod to for shots inside 100 yards in the dripping wet Middle Tennessee woods?

Hope we have something to post for you tomorrow! Last day of deer hunting and for 16 and under hunters only...wish us luck.

The 63 Gr. Sierra SMPs....

Though I would go with whatever you are sighted for...placement...

Good luck out there...Have fun!

Ingwe

I'm with Ingwe, the 63 Sierra has always been one of my fav. Along with the 55/60 NSB's right?

Dober

Dats why I told him that....cause you and the Big "A" both have said you liked that bullet...
And I trust you...

Errr, I mean, the Big "A"......


Ingwe

i was noodling for crocodiles when i got to close to this guy and he charged luckily i had my trusty 222 on me and was able to brain him at 10 paces

There must have been blue tape involved in that story somehow...

ingwe

just kidding

I'm not...Blue Tape makes everything bad-azzed!!!



Ingwe