I'm going to purchase a new rifled slug shotgun for next years Ohio deer season and would like to hear the opinion's of guy's that have much more experience than me in this matter, I'm looking at the savage 210/220 series slug guns and I don't know enough to make an informed decision. What are the advantages of each? I want Lot's of energy, most shot's will be well less than 100 yds as I hunt the wooded hills of Southern Ohio......Thanks 547.

I just bought the 220f,20 ga.I haven't shot it yet so I can only comment on the trigger and how it feels in my hands.

it feels like a rifle,like no other slug gun I ever had,I like the balance,it isn't a pheasent gun forced to be a slug gun.
the trigger is really nice too,I don't think I will mess with adjusting it.
everyone of my friends that hunts with 870,BPS,37 type slug guns is looking to get one.

just my .02

Having hunted with a shotgun for deer for over 40 years, I have some opinions about 12 & 20 gauge guns. I would encourage you to go with a 12 gauge for a variety of reasons, but truthfully, get the one you shoot the best. I hunted for 35 years with a smooth bore 16 gauge Ithaca Deerslayer and it killed tons of deer as long as I hit them in the right spot. I switched over to a fully rifled 12 gauge about 15 years ago to get extended range & accuracy & have loved it. The 12 gauge will kick hard & if it has an impact upon your shooting, the 20 gauge could be your best bet. If you are more recoil sensitive, shoot the 20 if it is under 100 yards. It will do what you want if your aim is true.

It is pretty hard to argue with the effectiveness, on whitetails, of a 12 ga slug, from the Foster up thru the sabot stuff. There were some sorry sabots during the early years of their appearance of the scene. Due to the sabot, the projectiles were near 20ga in diameter, but due to design & poor metal, they were very poor killers. The BRI, after Winchester bought them, is one example that I had a lot of bad experience with. (Good hits on different deer that were lost to other hunters or required excessive trailing.)
I think that if you are willing to spend the money for the better 20ga sabot, like the Hornady, & they shoot well out of your gun, the 20ga today has a lot going for it. It will prob. be in a 3" case, so factor that requirement, & cost in.
The beauty of the 12ga., in todays market, is that there is a bunch of good ammo offered, so it is a sure bet that you will easily find something that will shoot well out of your barrel. AND, there will be 2 3/4" versions that work admirably. The 20ga is a far more limited.
My last 2 cents: I figure on about $100 to trial a variety of sabots to find "the one" for any new gun, or barrel. The price ain't going down on the good stuff.
Good hunting, & let us know what you work out.

Kinda what I was saying fishdog - the 12 gauge has tons of offerings compared to the rest. Like the 50 cal muzzleloaders - it is where all of the development has taken place.

7mmStwer- Its exactly what you were saying. I'm just bigger winded.:)

The 20ga has plenty of power and velocity for deer, hogs and bear.
The Savage 220f is simply fantastic. I'm really glad to have one.
No more beatdowns from a 12ga 870!

Thanks for the knowledgeable advice men, I'm new to this slug hunting stuff but going by what you guy's with experience are saying I think I will go with a 12ga as I'm not too recoil sensitive and as a couple of you mentioned the wide variety of ammo choice is also a big plus, I did look at savage arms site and they no longer list the 12ga model, I hope they didn't quit making the thing as the Camo 12ga model 210 slug warrior is the gun I have in mind............Thanks again 547.

do your self a favor and handle a 220f before you buy.
good luck.

Def the Savage 20 or 12 gauge Bolt Action. Just dropped a nice 8pt w/ the 20 gauge that field dressed 182 lbs. I shoot the remington accutips and they clover leaf all day long at 100 yards. I posted these pics before but here they are again. ( Yes I know the group is a little low but it's been adjusted and it shoots these groups all day long.)

Rick any luck lately?

no Rug,I'm one and done,too busy and too broke to pay for another permit.

Had the wardens check us yesterday.

Glad it was just checking!

Its when they start writing that it gets serious!

Damn Ruger! Thats one accurate slug gun!!!!. That's a fair sized buck, did the 20ga slug exit the off side of the deer? Thats important to Me..........Thanks 547.

I'm going with the new Savage 220 personally. Plenty of updated slug offerings in 20ga now a day!

CLB

I'm glad you posted about those accutips. I have been meaning to give them a try. They expensive?

Nice deer too!

CLB

sorry for the noob question, but why hunt deer with a shotgun instead of a rifle?

Well, in CT unless you have private land permission you have to use a slug gun on State Land. So, I always keep one on hand. The private land in CT we hunted this year borders a very productive tract of State Forest so I might actually use the slug gun a bit next season.

CLB

Oldmanms2003,We were all legal, They were very serious and highly professional.They were very pleasant to deal with.

547, Yes the Accutips will exit.

CLB, They are priced in the ball park. A little bit higher than most. The gun also likes the Federal w/ Barnes Expander.

Ivan, No rifle hunting allowed in NJ, If so the wardens would have wrote me up and prob confiscated firearms, truck, etc....

The 20 is just as effective as the 12 now days. Most of the 20ga sabots are pushing the same velocities as the 12, just with a lighter slug. A 260grn slug in the 1900-2000fps area will be devastating on game. It will be just as effective as using a modern inline MLer with sabots.

Big advantage to the 20 is less recoil. A 12ga is tolerable, but HV slugs recoil much more than a magnum rifle.

loder

Excellent, Thanks Ruger..............547.

I played with a few different shotguns that friends had and went for the 20 gauge. After doing some reading here I settled on a Remington 11-87 with the cantilever slug barrel. That gun will cloverleaf the 250 gr. SSTs that it likes all day long. The recoil is light enough that my wife actualy enjoyed shooting it.

None of the three deer I tagged in Ohio needed more than one shot and the internal damage was....impressive. Only one went anywhere and that was a 40 yard track at most.

George

I would also vote for the 20. The new sabot loads are plenty even for big bucks, and some of the 12-gauge loads are so much that the recoil is REALLY nasty.

The savage 20 gauge scores again. Shot a nice doe @ 40 yards ... DRT full entrance & exit holes through both shoulders. I'll try to post the video. The accutips really dump a lot of energy in the body cavity (kinda like the barnes). Mostly jelly.

BTW I looked at the sticker price for the Remington Accutips and it was priced at $16.00/box. Thankfully I get a discount at the little Ma & Pa store.

CLB and Ruger - what is the reasoning for making rifles illegal for deer in your respective states?

Population of people & lots of suburb hunting. Some areas of NJ are well suited for rifles while other are not.

Kinda funny b/c you can use a inline muzzleloader that can shoot a 250gr piece of metal travelling fast as hell out to 250 yards accurately. Most shots in NJ are 50 yards or less. Now I do have property where you can shoot over 500 yards. A person who is wreckless w/ a rifle is usually wreckless with a shotgun & muzzleloader. I would love to have a rifle season b/c I have the property to use it & w/ some of my stands.
Know your limitations, Recognize your target & whats beyond.

With most quality 20 gauge slug ammo sporting ML bullets they are as effective as any ML rifle.

The only negative is the price of ammo.

Doc

Didnt take the 20 gauge but used the muzzleloader , got a nice doe , field dressed 90-100 pounds. Woo-Hoo!

That's a good size doe man!... Enjoy...........547.

My Doctor has one of the coolest I've ever seen. I was showing him my Ruger 44 carbine with an EO Tech. Halo site. He does a bear hunt in Canada a few times a year. Did I mention he's a Doctor? Anyhoot. He mounted a Halo site on a Benelli semi auto.

Fast to site and mega foot pounds when needed.

Hoot

After at least 4 failures with a Rem 1187 over the years, a borrowed 870, muzzleloaders and handguns, I settled on a Benelli Super Nova and put a Badger Barrel slug barrel on it. Longest kill was last week at 147 yards. It shoots Hornaday SST and Winchester Partition Gold equally well to about 1.5" at 100. I prefer the PArtition Gold as they definately hit harder. I looked at the savage and liked it, but my local dealer steered my away from it. If I had the coin, I would have a Tar Hunt.

Tar-Hunt = WAY TO MUCH MONEY! The Savage shoots just as good as a Tar Hunt for a fraction of the price.

I'm thinking that exact same thing!!

Fit and finish is better on the Tar Hunt but not worth $1000 or more....Glad I got my Browning A-bolt when I did

Salmomhead, did your dealer give you a reason for not going with the Savage? I wonder if he is thinking about the new 220-F models? I have one, having just sold a Browning A-Bolt for twice as much. This is as good a gun as the Browning and will probably outshoot it easily. Just curious about his bias.

The Savage strikes Again!!! Double header !!!! Will post pics soon of deer and the Remington Accutip performance.

Here are the pics of deer and bullet performance.



entrance on spike 100 yards shoulder

entrance on doe (neck shot 150 yards)

Entrance on spike

Exit on spike

Rib cage entrance spike (not best photo)

Excellent pics Ruger! You nailed that spike perfect and a very impressive exit wound, looks like that 20ga maybe the way to go.................547.

davidlea,
He simply said that the savage wasnt of good enough quality. This was 4-6 years ago. Not sure what he based that on, since there seems to be plenty of guys on here that like them. They seem to be priced right thats for sure. I like the looks of them also. maybe I will pick one up and test it. At the time, he said "they are junk" and that was of the 12 gauge model 210 I believe. I had also inquired about the Browning A bolt since they had been discontinued and the used price had gone up 3-5x over what they sold for new back in the 90's. he also said they were nothing special, but decent. I don't know a whole lot about the inner workings of guns personally, so kind of have to rely on others. What I have now certainly gets the job done.

I did a little poking around and it looks like the 210 is not in production anymore on Savage website, just the 220 20 gauge.
There are a few 210 on Gunbroker anyway. couple questions to those that own the 210. Does the magazine drop out or is it fixed? Do shells feed well? What is the twist rate of the 210? the 220 is 1:24", I assume the 210 is the same. any quirks to be aware of? What kind of honest accuracy to you get at 100 yards and with what slugs?

BTW both the spike (which was about 120 pounds gutted) & the doe were both DRT.

Also.... I have both of these shots on video which I will try to post.

The Savage fell off the 4 wheeler , took a pretty good hit on the ground, and had about 2" of mud/snow in the barrel. Gave it a good cleaning and went to check the scope to make sure it was still zeroed. Here are the results of three shots at 100 yards using the Remington Accutip 3" 20 Gauge.

i live in ohio where it's only a shotgun/muzzleloader state. that being said i have shot more than my fair-share of deer with either of these so i think i can speak to the subject. for me, the best combo has been a remington 870 turkey gun with a 24" (i think) barrel and a rifled choke tube. i have a 2x scope on it and shoot remington buckhammers. i have taken deer out to 125 yds. with this combo, but truthfully 95% of my shooting is inside 25 yds or so! deer don't respond well to the buckhammers. it seems to give them lead poisioning!-keith

Always good to hear from a man with some real world experience.......Thanks for the excellent post's men...........................547.

Sweet Sally Savage scores again !!!!! Approx 100 pound doe shot at 150 yards. Excellent entrance/exit hole, ran 30 yards w/ awesome blood trail This is my new favorite gun . I'm out for another one - later.

My buddies and I have done some hunting in Ohio and parts of Minnesota where it is shotguns/muzzleloaders only. The three guys I hunted with all used Mossbergs with fully rifled barrels and have had good success. Personally, I'd be looking at one of the Savage 20 gauge slug guns. They are apparently very accurate and with today's powder/bullet technology the 20 gauge is no slouch.

Scorpion, thats what Im using. Savage 20 gauge.

Here is the doe


Entrance hole




Exit

Recovered bullet (remington Accutip 20 gauge)

[img]http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/ruger270man/IMG_0617.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt279/ruger270man/IMG_0619.jpg[/img]

The "best" shotgun for deer? My wife's cousin in IA has shot more deer out to 100yds than you can haul in a stock trailer. He has used the same 20ga Stevens pump for 50yrs. No scope! That shotgun would not bring $67.50 at auction. Maybe it's the best?

The last one I shot with a shotgun was with a Savage 220 in 16 ga. I would lean towards a 20 ga in whatever gun you can shoot the best. More choice in ammo in 12 maybe, but the older I get, the lighter the gun I like to carry. Make it a single shot as well. My .01 worth.

Ivan, New Jersey's the same way...shotgun only. And, being New Jersey...logic probably had nothing to do with it.

Actually, it's a matter of population density. They figure that rifle rounds have the range and trajectory to cause damage at long distances. They limit to buckshot and slugs to cut down the effective range.

There are some counties in PA that are shotgun-only...and Allegheny County is shotgun-only, no buckshot (don't know the logic behind that).

So, my Bucks County hunting gun is a 12ga Remington 11-87 (one of the few counties where a semi-auto is permitted for deer) with a smoothbore barrel, RemChoke and cantelever scope mount. Scope is a 3x-9x x 32 Simmons. I can't argue with it...it loves plain ol' Remington Slugger (Foster-type) slugs.

Aqualung

Damn Ruger, that accutip is a bad boy, I like it!!!!..............547.

I've been using the H&R slug gun with light fields in 12 gauge for about 10 years. Every year when it comes out of the safe it holds 0ne inch groups at 100 yards. It's not the gun its the shooter practice practice practice practice

Damifinowfish

BS...it's both, the best shot in the world can't make a gun shoot 1" groups if it's only capable of 5" groups

Sweet Sally Savage Scores AGAIN!!!!!!!!

Oh Sweet Sally Savage!!! You never let me down. Thank you for being so damn accurate & putting that 130 Pound gutted doe on the ground.

I've used 20 gauge slugs on deer for 40 years without any problems --- never seen a solid hit that didn't leave a nice exit hole. AND I can't remember ANY that needed a second round. I also remember my son coming home one year for deer hunting with a 12 ga bolt action; the next year it was gone and he used my ithaca 37 deerslayer for some years thereafter. Some years ago there was an issue with finding good slugs, but the selection today is quite wide. Try the lightfields!

PS - you can't beat the H&R ultra slug or the new Savage 220.

If you like getting your teeth loosened with every shot, get a 12 ga. I have a Remington 870 that shoots great 1-1 1/2 at 100, but the recoil is breathtaking. That sucker kills on one end and maims on the other. Put a Knoxx Spec Ops stock on it and it's better, but certainly not pleasant. Bought a Savage 220F camo (20 ga), but it came in 4 days B/4 deer season. Had a scope problem, then couldn't get the best ammo for it (Remington Accu tips). Changed the scope and never got it sighted in in time to use it, but when sighting in with the bad scope, it was MUCH more enjoyable to shoot. From what I've read, within reasonable ranges, it's just as effective as the 12 ga. Dead is dead. If I need more range, I'll just use my Savage 10ML II muzzleloader.

Are the standard barrel 20 GA H7R guns tapped for scope mounts? I saw a 12 GA that wasn't. I know the heavy barreled model is, but I want a light and handy gun. Have used muzzy's for years in the Ohio gun season, but the cleaning required is getting old.

Is there enough "meat" on the 20 to have drilled and tapped if not done at the factory?

The Tracker II barrels are not, but there is plenty of metal to drill and tap the 20 gauge. Not so with the 12, some smiths will do it but the margin for error is small. This year H&R came out with a lightweight that is drilled and tapped and comes from the factory with a base. So far, the new lightweight is not showing up in the accessory barrel program.

My local gun shop got in a combo gun with a .357 mag barrel and the lightweight 20 gauge barrel. He had a customer who wanted to buy the .357 for his kid, but didn't want the slug barrel. Long story short, I had him fit it to my 12 gauge frame. short job and it fits perfectly. I paid $100 OTD for barrel and fitting. Also, while I was there I had him bob the hammer on my gun so that regular height rings work. All in all a good day.

Cool, thanks for the info. I'm not a fan of any of the slug gun options, the H&R is a no-frills solid gun and it's light. How does yours shoot?

Ohio allows pistols with straight walled cartridges, I wish they would allow rifles chambered in the same. My Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag would be ideal for the thick woods I hunt in SE Ohio.

I've been thinking about hunting the midwestern states and have zero experience with shotgun slugs.
What is the effective accuracy range of a 20 ga slug and 12 ga slug?
What are most of you using for scopes?

150 yds is reasonable and a 2x7 or a fixed 4x will gett'er done

Thanks George,
Within 150 yards has worked for most of my rifle deer, it seems shotgun hunting is not the handicap I used to think.

Is the H&R as comfortable for handling and shooting as an Encore?

The H&R is Awesome. I have the 20 gauge Bull barrel & its all as accurate as my Savage 220/ 20 gauge. The only difference besides performance is price & single shot vs. bolt action. Taking 150 yards shots is no prob. for the Savage or H&R.

I have an H&R 20ga,I prefer the Savage bolt,Marlin 512 and especially My Browning A-Bolt....but I dig bolt actions YMMV

I love the bolt also. The older Browning Bolt Slug Guns are EXCELLENTT!!!!

I was just thinking with a long shotgun barrel + the action length of a repeater, the overall length would feel really long to me.
What length barrels do most use for 20 ga slugs?

My old man took a Mossberg bolt action in 410 ga and mounted a scope on it. basically a 45 cal. rifle. Worked well out to 125 yards.

Sort of like a 45 caliber rifle that is shooting low-ish velocity 90 grain bullets. I shudder to contemplate the sectional density or BC of that little pill. Numbers aside, the 410 slug at 100 yards+ is a recipe for a terrific crippler.

.02 and all...

I like the medium bore rifles but prefer something on the order of an ounce or so.

Mostly opinion.