For those of you that deer hunt in Pennsylvania what are your thoughts on Sunday hunting???

OK for archery if they take one day off the end of the fall season for each Sunday gained. OK for flintlock season.

Not OK for any firearms season unless they also allow silencers.

My beef is with the noise. I have to listen to gunshots 6 days a week during hunting season. It's nice to sit on the porch on Sunday and not hear gunfire.

Dale

Rich,

Two weeks ago I talked to a new man on the GC Board. He said that it was being discussed, however the farmers association was definitely against it. I said how about just on game lands and he said they were concerned that it would concentrate to many hunters. His take it was not going to happen.

According to him, perhaps small game on game lands is a possibility.

I'm kinda lukewarm about it, although my son is heavily in favor of it. He works all week and only can hunt on weekends while I'm retired and can hunt anytime. PA is more heavily populated than most western states and I can see both cultural and noise issues that could be problems here. I don't think the general population is ready for Sunday hunting.
Ron

I don't see it as much of an issue where one does not travel great distances to hunt. Where one drives 500+ miles for an outing and he may have to work Monday through Friday, it's the pits to only get one day in. Stupid law that likely violates church/state connections.

Rah,
Where in PA are you moving?
Ron

Maryland started limited Sunday hunting about 7 years ago, but only on Private property. I also belong to a hunting club in PA and have heard some rumor about Sunday hunting. I take off the two weeks of rifle season every year from work, so Sunday hunting has little impact on me, but for those who cant get the time off from work I can see the benefit, and if I were in there shoes would want it too.

One of the wierdest hunting laws there is IMO. I can usually hunt on weekends, and can't always get time off durring the week.

Less laws. If you don't like Sunday hunting, don't do it.

I can remember when the all the stores were closed on Sunday in Mo. Called it the "Blue Law". Can one fish or play golf in PA on Sun?

In my area, lots of small businessmen/tradesmen work six days a week. Where does the "no Sun hunting" leave those hunters? Lots of farmers try not work any more than just necessary on Sun. It is a day for church and recreation.

Yeah Pa has those old blue laws. I to fall in the category of working weekends and being lower on the seniority level at work, therefore not be able to take more than a day or two off for deer season. I'm all for sunday hunting and for hunting predators/varmints with the cursed/infamous black rifle.

Recently, I moved more into grouse hunting with my dog, and find that I can take all the time off that I want in early or mid November and have the woods to myself.

Rich,

I'm all for it and wish I had it in CT and Maine. It bothers me that we have old outdated ridiculous laws on the books.

CLB

Pa is loosing licensed hunters at an alarming rate. Especially alarming is the recruitment of young hunters. Or as is actually the case, the non recruitment of young hunters. I believe the average age of licensed hunters in Pa is now somewhere around 57 years.

There is more than one reasons for this but in my opinion one of the main reasons for this is the lack of Sunday hunting. Rifle deer season in Pa is 2 weeks. That means that any kid that is going to school has 2 Saturdays a year to hunt. That is their hunting season...2 days. Hard to get a kid pumped up about that with all the other things they have to do now days, like hanging out and getting into trouble. Sunday hunting would double kids opportunities to be in the woods. Not just deer hunting opportunities, but all hunting opportunities. A lot of the hunters that live near population centers have to drive several hours to more rural parts of the state to hunt. Who wants to drive 2 or 3 or more hours on a Friday night to hunt one day and then turn around and come home? Duh! The state is crying about it's decline in licensed hunters but they could double most peoples opportunity by allowing Sunday hunting. I don't get it.

My generation is the last generation of hunters in Pa. The Pa Game Commission is flat broke now. 50 years from now there won't be any such thing as hunting in Pa. Sad...but true. I'm just glad I won't be here to see it.

Randy

I got to sat it's very odd that a hunter/gun guy would not like the sound of gunfire. One of my favorite things about deer season, gun fire.

MIKE.

Just curious as to why they find it reasonable to shut down hunting on Sunday? Is it to give conservation officers a day off, or theoretically to reduce total game harvested, or something else entirely??

Its odd that so many states allow Sunday hunting & have no problem with the concept & only a few states do not allow Sunday hunting & many have problems with the concept. In Virginia many of the hunters & some of the largest deer hunting organizations do not support Sunday hunting. I just don't understand the objection. You are correct in stating that any legal change in the hunting laws that might bring or retain more hunters into the field is a good thing. The only segment of the hunting population that is increasing is licensed women hunters.

I have lived all my life in Pa. with the exception of New Jersey when I was an infant and my recent stint in Georgia. Seems that hunter numbers are on the decline. I don't get why the Pa. game Commission won't add 2 Sundays during rifle season!

Well put!!!

I'm all for it. We're so old fashioned it's crazy! We get land owners saying they don't want hunting on their property on Sundays. Fine. It's always up to them who and when they allow hunting. PA has a lot of game lands though. Lots of us have to work on Saturdays and we're cut back on time in the woods with the current laws. Time for us to get into the 21st century.

They would have to hire more officers and they're already complaining they don't have the funds. That's still unanswered.

why would they have to hire more officers? It would be cheaper to pay overtime than to hire for such short periods.

Ny has been hunting on sudays foe as long as I can remember and our bow season starts on 10/1 in some area's and buy the time Deer season is over in most of the state its New Years eve. I have a lot of friends in Pa that have always asked me to come up and hunt and my answer has always been " I'm not driving 5 hours to hunt for 1 day" and back when I was working 6 days a week I couldn't hunt there at all. Given the fact that you guys have shorter seasons than we do I'm hoping that you get to hunt on Sundays.Best of Luck

If they grant it, the farmers association may post more property than that is already posted, but on the otherhand, there are properties posted no Sunday fishing! My concern would be, you know and I know there are those who would try to sneak onto someone's land on a Sunday that did not want anyone on their property on Sundays. Religious rites still play a part in the effort- a day of rest!

How about bear season, no weekend days at all. Explain to your employer that you are going to take Mon Tues Wens off the week before Thanksgiving vacation for bear hunting, and then have Thurs and Fri off for thanksgiving, and then Mon for opening day of deer hunting. It goes over like a fart in church, let me tell ya.

I have a lot of buddies that drive Semi's for Wise Potato Chips. in Berwick . The entire plant shuts down for opening day of deer, but they have to go to work. Tell me that don't suck

So without wardens in the field Sunday should be a special day for poachers according to that reasoning. NC is the same way. Except this year archery hunting on private land is finally legal. In the mean time the following are legal on Sunday:
1)Golfing (including the 19th hole)
2)Shopping for non-essential items
3)Tennis
4)Boating
5)Fishing (and you don't have to wait until Monday to kill the fish)
6)Killing animals (re: slaughter houses or private slaughter)
7)Shooting guns
8)Professional football, basketball, baseball, soccer, la crosse, badmitten, etc.
9)NASCAR
10)Political campaigning
11)Fill in the blank with any activity not essential for society to exist yet personally attractive to those who choose to participate.

All hobbies, sports, passtimes and voluntary activities EXCEPT hunting are allowed on Sunday. I have a problem with this. Hunting season, bag limits, etc. should be determined not only according to reasonable biology but with respect to allowing equal opportunity for any and all wishing to participate. Disallowing Sunday hunting effectively reduces by half those who can hunt only on weekends. And even more importantly, agree or not, anti-Sunday hunting initiatives are essentially anti-hunting initiatives. You see, in my very basic way of thinking, it is not the right of government to dictate my activities on any given day including Sunday. Should I choose to worship God with other members of my congregation then share a treestand with a family that afternoon it is my business and none or either the government or the Farmers Assosiation.

This business of game wardens in Pa is a whole nother sore subject. With license revenues at an all time low the game commission seems to have embarked on a hunter harassment campaign to find and fine every petty infraction in an apparent attempt to drum up some cash. Which of course has the effect of alienating even more hunters and chasing them away from the sport, and reducing license revenues even more. The game commission is supposed to be protecting us from the bad guys, not fining little kids and their dads for not carrying their license with them or wearing the proper square inches of hunter orange.

If you are a hunter and don't live in Pa...I wouldn't recommend moving here for the great hunting and the friendly helpful game wardens. Pa is a mess.

Shootem, very good point..the no-sunday rule seems a bit biased when all the other sportsman get to enjoy their interests. wonder if they made a no-fishing, no-golfing, no-ballgames rule how that would fly?

A little old, but it is an issue that is being given thought. Not sure if that is a current phone contact, but it may be a better avenue for expression than here.


Bill 779) that would remove the prohibition on Sunday hunting from statute, allowing the Pennsylvania Game Commission to fully regulate hunting on Sunday, as it does the other six days of the week. FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA
May 31, 2008 Governor�s Advisory Council for Hunting,
Fishing & Conservation
Commonwealth News Bureau
DRAFT Room 308, Main Capitol Building
Harrisburg, PA 17120

CONTACT: Robb Miller
(717) 772-3292


COUNCIL SEEKS DIALOG ON HUNTING�S FUTURE

HARRISBURG -- The Governor�s Advisory Council for Hunting, Fishing and Conservation is preparing to reach out to a variety of stakeholder groups, including sportsmen�s clubs and recreation organizations, to listen to ideas about how to improve the hunting experience for individuals and families.
�More than any other reason, people hunt because it gives them the opportunity to get together for outdoor recreation with family and friends � it is a social phenomena passed on from generation to generation. And while the desire to put food on the table may have been more of a motivating factor in the past, it has been surpassed by the desire to spend quality time with a daughter or son or aunt or uncle,� enthuses Linda Steiner.
Steiner, a council member since 2003, reports that she and her fellow council members are concerned about the steady decline in hunting participation. She views the problem as an opportunity for policymakers to look for fresh ideas about how to slow, stop and hopefully reverse the downward trend. Hunting license sales have fallen 28 percent from 1981 to 2007, and projections indicate that another 24 percent decline may occur by 2025. According to a recent study on the subject, time constraints appear to be the biggest barrier to increasing hunting participation.
�Giving people more time to hunt may very well be the best way to solve decades-old problem of declining participation in hunting. The biggest obstacle we�ve discovered comes in the form of an archaic blue law that prohibits hunting when people are most likely to have available time, during the weekend,� says Steiner.
�Interestingly, most states contiguous to Pennsylvania now allow people to hunt on both days of the weekend, including Maryland, Ohio, New York and West Virginia. These states have experienced few of the problems some people assume would plague Pennsylvania, such as increased posting of private land. Not one of these states has plans to repeal the added day,� Steiner observed. �Given this positive experience, council believes that doing away with the blue law is worth considering.�
Pennsylvania dropped its ban on Sunday fishing in 1937 and other blue laws, such as those limiting the sale of liquor and beer, have been greatly relaxed. With the exception of car sales, hunting remains the only activity restricted on Sunday in Pennsylvania.
�Understandably, this topic can stir a range of emotions even among hunters, not to mention other important user groups like hikers and bicyclists. But viable solutions can be found where good listening takes place,� said Steiner.
She added: �Undoubtedly, there will be long-term consequences if we don�t address the decline in hunting, and fishing as well. Nationally, hunters and anglers have been the largest contributors to government wildlife programs for game and nongame species alike, contributing over $10 billion for conservation and more than 80% of the funding our state fish and wildlife agencies rely on. All of us who care about wildlife and wild places should be concerned. It�s time we started to think about how to �conserve� hunters, and what hunters are telling us is that they need more time to be afield.�
Legislation has been introduced in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives (House
Most assume that deer hunting would be considered part of any expansion, but other species, such as waterfowl, turkey and grouse, would also create a great deal of interest among hunters and may gain quick public support.
�One thing is for certain, we won�t know unless we begin exploring options,� said Steiner. �That is the impetus behind this effort.�
Groups or organizations interested in learning more about this topic and contributing information are encouraged to contact the Governor�s Advisory Council for Hunting, Fishing and Conservation by calling 717-772-3292.

###

PA had Sunday exclusion laws (blue laws) until about the mid to late 60s. About the only things you could shop for on a Sunday, were food and clothing.

Our Sunday hunting is limited to crows (when in season, only Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays) and some furbearers.

The PA Farm Bureau is the main impediment to increased Sunday hunting, with their main threat, that of more land posted if Sunday hunting ever comes about. IIRC, the Ohio Farm Bureau used that same threat/argument to fight Sunday hunting in Ohio. It happened anyway, with little accompanying problem.

The Game Commission cannot adopt Sunday hunting. That is something the legislature would have to adopt by making it legal. Although there is/was a bill introduced to cede that authority to the PGC. It has gone nowhere.

Limited Sunday hunting on public land is stupid, because it deprives all of those who own land, from participating. If farmers and other land owners don't want Sunday hunting, then let them post it so.

Don't much care if Sunday firearms deer hunting comes about, but if a season starts on a Saturday (turkey, small game, archery deer, etc.) and thousands have driven hours to get to where they hunt, one day of hunting is a bummer. Or a half day, in the case of spring gobbler (yes, we don't have all day spring gobbler, either).

Given the experiences of all the other states where Sunday hunting is the norm, no Sunday hunting in PA is ridiculous.

The cost of enforcement is also a non-issue. Due to budget restraints, WCOs are already on a 40 hour work week, with approved OT. The yahoos just have to figure out which days they ain't "on duty". Many WCOs just patrol anyway during peak hunting season participation, essentially on their own time.

I manage (until they close it later this year) a county farm in Southeast Pa. We are open for public hunting and get a ton of dove hunters. They start banging away at noon and fire 3 shots at every dove that comes within 100 yds. I get tired of hearing BANG BANG BANG. 6 days a week. We are surrounded by houses, I'm sure the neighbors get tired too.

That is why I can't support Sunday hunting for 'heavy gunfire' seasons like dove, firearm deer, and early small game.

The PGC has proposed Bear season for Saturday, Monday, Tues. I could support Sat, Sun, Mon. on that.

Once you get outside of the southeast, most schools and many businesses are closed for the first day of rifle deer season. My parents trash hauler adjusts the schedule only for Deer Season, not Christmas, not New Years, not July 4th.

Dale

I live in PA and have 340 acrs of land. My reason for not wanting Sunday hunting is personal. I like to go for long walks on my property with my dogs and do not want to have to worry about some butthead shooting them. At least on Sunday I have that opportunity.

Yea I heard all the remarks about posting, but I am have been a landowner long enough to know that not everybody heeds the posters, and if the butthead tresspasses anyway he would be just the kind of idiot to shoot my dog if she spooked a buck for him. Then it could get real ugly.

Pa's main problem is NOT a lack of time to hunt, heck deer season is about 3 1/2 months long. The main problem is lack of game. I used to love to hunt rabbits and pheasnts. Well protecting birds of prey pretty much fixed that. The PGC has decimated our deer population so they are doing their best to destroy that too. Squirrels are not a problem yet. Grouse pretty much left with the rabbits.

First thing to fix is to combine the game & fish commisions. What the heck does a fish cop do all winter and what does a game warden do the other 9 months? How about the PGC actually getting off their lazy butts and improving the game lands with food plots and managing it for cover?

Sunday hunting on game lands is fine, but leave the private land owners out of it so we have at least one day a week to use our property the way we would like to without worrying about some butthead tresspasser.

I have 3 friends who each get over 100 rabbits per year. They spend their time and have good dogs. We do pretty good on Ruffed Grouse. We spend our time and have good dogs. Pheasants are pretty much gone and the GC will tell you it is because we don't have large tracks of continuous habitat. The odd part of that is that I tell them of land that is essentially unchanged since the 60's, on which you could flush 20 or so wild birds per day and they don't want to listen. Avian predators, stocked birds-which hunters wanted-diluting the wild strain, trapping no longer a financially attractive pastime, with increased numbers of nest robbers and other factors are the problem not available land. Then again the GC would not look forward to the old days when the opening of Pheasant hunting was as much a tradition as opening day of Deer with hunters everywhere. Then again the land owners would look at it much the same as Deer today and post everything up. Damn buttheads they are.

We do just fine on Deer, but again spend a good deal of time and don't plan on hunting only one or two days per season. However, the GCs war on does-again with the assistance of hunters who buy every license they can-along with increasing numbers of coyotes have changed things greatly.

Coyotes have also hit the Turkeys hard in my area, but we had to many and their food scratching had a negative impact on successful Grouse nesting IMO, so I'm glad their numbers have decreased some. With their decrease Grouse numbers have risen some in areas. Turkeys seem to be feeding more out in the open than previously. I think-could be wrong-it's because they can spot coyotes easier than when in the woods.

The whole thing is complicated. Then we have the buttheads-just funnin yea-who have made posting a Pa. tradition and things go to hell.

With the farm association threatening to post even more land if Sunday hunting is allowed, I doubt if you will see the legislature make any move in that direction at the present time.

Of course if Pa. hunters made the effort to flex their political strength-they no longer are as vocal as in the past-things could improve.

Only place around here where the bunny hunting is any good are the Christmas tree farms. Then if you have some good beagles you can do pretty good, other than that pretty bad. I am lucky to see 10 grouse a year. Decent supply of turkeys though.

If the state would see fit to put some teeth in the tresspass laws like the people out west do it would be a great help. Tresspassers here get treated about the same as jaywalkers, that is if you can find anyone to get off their butt to even write them up. Out west you can lose your truck, guns and even worse. As a result there is just not a big problem with tresspass in the western states. In addition it is up to the person to know where they are, not the duty of the landowner to mark it. Pretty good system thinks me.

Goin Huntin

You have your views, I'm probably not going to change them. I just don't agree with them in entirety.

In Pa. we have-IIRC-approximately 200,000 less hunters than 15 years ago. New hunters today are better educated than in the past re: respecting landowner rights. From my experience I see more hunters today respecting those rights than in the past, so with less hunters, better education and from what I have seen better compliance, I have to say it is less of a problem then in years past and with continuing education will get better.

Everyday I also see more landowners regarding what they own as the equivalent of the Kings land and to hell with others. This is a relatively recent phenomenon in the West also over lets say the last 50 years.

It's the way things are today and I will not change it. However, if you want this sport to continue, you best understand that kids today-or most any day for that matter-are not going to put up with the hassle of not being able to find a place to hunt.

Where I grew up the land has not changed much with the exception of posting. When we were turned loose, we just went hunting. The kids that live there today don't have the enthusiasm for hunting those in the past had. I have to think lack of convenient access has something to do with it. Just because that is how the West does it, doesn't mean it is good for the future of hunting. So methinks it is not a pretty good system for our future.

If one only is concerned with what they have, I guess it works. When we no longer have the numbers to have political influence re: hunting we all will eventually lose.

Landowners own land, but not the game that resides on it. We decided that issue a long time ago.

Then again, I have a distinct propensity to be a butthead.

Addition: A little known Pa. law is that if you allow hunting, you can't be sued if someone is injured on your land. However, if you post it and someone is hurt thru negligence of the owner-much the same as a swimming pool and no fence-the owner can be held responsible.

Damn good law methnks.

I grew up hunting in Ohio and Pennsylvania, and never knew folks hunted on Sunday until I moved to Minnesota. It seems archaic that Pa. still refuses to endorse Sunday hunting. This is not the first monumental blunder their Game Commission has made. Heck, give the folks Sundays to hunt-it would give them a chance to harvest one of the 6 deer that remain in the state, courtesy of their much ballyhooed "Quality Deer Management" program, otherwise known as shoot every doe in the state and then wonder why no one sees any deer during gun season-must be the fact that they can't hunt on Sunday! It's time to repeal the Blue Laws and join the modern world.

Edit: Needless argument on my part. I try so hard to stay out of the internet pizzing matches. Sometimes I just can't help it...

See above...

Gophergunner

Now don't try to stay on subject I'm having way to much fun with this landowner detour.

Why I even had one of the highly esteemed landowners who has property nest to mine, open to hunting by the way, and it really pisses then off that someone may get one of "their" Deer, try to throw me off of my own little piece. He hadn't seen me for years and just didn't know. While I was playing the ignorant butthead, he just kept getting madder. Until I offered to call the GW and go and get my deed. Just loved it.

Long live the KING!!!!

Coldbore,

Just picked up your post after I wrote my previous. Yes I do own a little land. Only 56 acres I admit, but when you string it out with all the adjacent properties each of no more than around 80-100 it amounts to I'm guessing around 800 give or take all lined up.

I can understand many landowners frustrations. My main concern is that I wish we didn't have to be at odds with each other-which seems to be more frequently the case-and work to reach some common ground. We both need each other if the average man is going to be allowed to continue hunting. Look at countries that used to have a great hunting tradition where the average guy has been pushed out. Yes, many of them have an imbalance of people to land which has magnified the problem.

All to often I see the I have mine mentality, which has little to do with an entitlement predisposition of others.

The second thing I often see is second generation landowners, who essentially paid little for the land they have. It was given to them by Daddy who often did allow access by others. Now they act as if they worked for what they now have.

So yes, I do have an admittedly small piece of land. Hope the day never comes that I will have to do all my hunting just there.

Glad you have land, and I hope it's much greater in size than mine. If so, give the future of something you love some thought.

Enough from me. Just got a new rifle and it needs to be shot.

I welcome an exchange of ideas, after all none of us know everything. I also like some of Coldbore's thoughts, by the way do you own land?

I started out leasing hunting ground for a place to hunt. I was eventually able to purchase 60 acres and then kept adding to it. I now have just over 340 acres. If memory serves me right I have about $268,000 in JUST the land. I have since built my home here and some outbuildings. I also started my own business and built it up over the years and thank God every day for my blessings.

So anyway got side tracked there. You can lease ground, buy ground, or form a club and buy ground as a group. If you cannot do any of that, how about offering the landowner some labor over the year to help out in exchange for a place to hunt? Now there is a novel idea. I get approached regularly by people wanting a place to hunt but NOT ONE has had enough ambition to help with anything.

I hunt along with some freinds and family and quite honestly that is all the activity I want. I catch tresspassers most every year and give each a stern warning along with recording their name and license number and inform them that if they are caught again they will be prosecuted. I have picked up garbage most every year left by slob hunters.

I spend about $3,000 every year along with many hours of labor maintaining and creating food plots. I put out feed all winter to make sure the deer survive. I could go on but hopefully I am getting my point across.

Now any of you that feel you are entitled to hunt anywhere you want because you bought a license you need to step up to the plate and earn the right to hunt private lands.

Gone Huntin: I just had to take one more look before leaving.

See my above post re: land ownership.

The truth be I was saying some off the wall things to get others to post essentially what you and Coldbore have to eventually allow myself the opportunity to post my thoughts about us all being in this together.

I am on a 1000 acre lease, and in Pa. we are fortunate to have a large quantity of Game Lands that if you are willing to get back a bit are essentially unused. I didn't realize just how good some of them are until posting became so prevalent. I also have a few farmer/landowner friends who for some obscure reason like me enough to almost insist that I come and hunt on my own or with them. As far as available hunting land I am blessed.

However, in this particular case on does not have to be that bright to see the future, and it doesn't look that those who follow will experience the same blessing unless others who are can find a way to give back.

Now I'm going shooting.

I think driving shouldn't be allowed on Sunday, seems walking your dog without worrying if it's going to get hit by a car would be nice.

Course I'm just guessing that more dogs are killed by cars than deer hunters.........

You elevate glib to another level....grin

Maybe we should be allowed to shoot tresspassers on sundays.

Grin...

So a guy who'll break the law and trespass on your land is going to abide by the law that says not to hunt on Sunday? Sorry, I don't follow the logic there. With all due respect, there seem to be a million reasons guys give as to why the no sunday hunting law is a good and each one of them is more ridiculous than the next, including yours. I'd have more respect for you guys if you'd just come out and give "cause I don't want it" as a reason instead of making up some far fetched BS story. I own about the same amount of land as you, and I don't have trespassers hunting it because I have it posted and keep a close eye on who gets on it. Trespassers aren't tolerated around here and they know it. I can't imagine being afraid to use my own land as I wanted to for worry of a trespasser. For every private landowner in PA who wants sunday hunting kept illegal so he can walk his dog, I'll guarantee there are at least two who want it legalized so they can hunt their own land, using it the way THEY want to.

First of all this is no far fetched BS story. A close friend of mine had his dog shot on his own land by someone tresspassing so don't give me your BS. Second of all my land IS posted and the reason I know there are tresspassers is because I have caught them while keeping a close eye on it as you state. Unfortunately here in PA there are those that do not heed the signs. I am sure there are those that want Sunday hunting so they can hunt their own land, they are entitled to their opinion as am I. And lastly thus far I have yet to find anyone tresspassing and hunting here on Sundays.

Unlike many other states, PA's trespass laws don't have any real teeth in them, especially as it pertains to rural areas. Call the police in more developed areas, there's a good chance a cop will actually soon show up, because there will be cops there.

In most rural areas (that'd be roughly about 85-90% of the state), there is no local police force, so you have to wait for a State Police officer to show up. Good luck with that, since they'll likely be 30 miles away when they get the call.

We have agriculture trespass laws which do have some fairly stiff penalties, but trying to get them enforced is a crap shoot, because many cops and district judges aren't even aware of such laws. Add to that, our "game wardens" cannot enforce state trespass laws on your land, unless you are enrolled in a public access coop program (hunters still have to ask permission).

People commonly trespass here, because they have little fear of any real penalties if caught. Many hunters think they're entitled to go anywhere they want to, posted or not.

Dube - You are right on! People from other states that may have stiffer penalties for tresspass do not understand the problem the landowners in PA are faced with. Thanks for chiming in.

I don't know the answers or all the problems of landowners, but I do have some experience with the hunter side.

I probably hunted Grouse 25 to 30 days this year on Game Lands, State Forest and private ground. How many hunters do you think I ran into? Listen up and pay attention: Three that I can think of and if I misplaced a few I could still count them on both hands!! I hunted from Armstrong Co. N to Franklin, Forest and Warren. Now at least in my little part of the world and conversing small game, I don't see it as that big of a problem.

I'm sure Deer are another question. On the 1000 acre lease I'm on-23 members-other than the first two days and first Saturday, one or two other hunters and often no one else would be there. I hunted every day of the two week rifle season except one. The first two days I hunted the ANF and I still didn't see more than 10 other hunters in the woods. The rest of the season I hunted on the lease. In my little part of the world, I think many exaggerate the problem considerably from what it was in the past.

Just not that many in Pa. today are serious hunters with the current deer population. I'm willing to say the majority of deer hunters who hunt rifle don't spend more than three full days hunting the entire season. Now admittedly the landowner has to contend with archery-don't even get me started on that season that has blown out of proportion to the dollars they generate-and muzzleloader.

Not against archery, just the amount of time they get to play, and yes I buy an archery tag. Seldom use it because I usually don't practice enough and I like rifle hunting more. My way of helping out the GC with some extra dollars. Same thing with ML tags. I buy one, but during ML I'm would rather grouse hunt.

I'm not saying landowners don't have any problems, but I have doubts re: the magnitude.


Addition: This is one thing I'm absolutely sure of. The majority of problems you do have don't come from the much maligned city hunters. It's from your own that live close by.

Battue - You are correct about grouse hunting and I would throw in the squirrel hunting there too. Turkey and deer are the problem seasons, from the end of sept through mid january.

Because I try to manage my property for the deer and one of my food plots is by the road, people see some decent bucks, hence they try to get em. Turkeys are in the food plots too, but I have fewer problems with turkey hunters.

Unfortunately the plot that I have by the road is one of my best producers and the deer frequent it a lot. I have found numerous arrows from poachers in the field. As far as I know they have yet to connect, at least I have not found any signs of it thus far.

I may change the crop I grow there to a warm season summer product in the hopes that the deer are not there to see as much during season.

Gone Huntin

As I previously mentioned I'm glad that you and people like Coldbore have land and are willing to put forth the effort to improve it for wildlife and your own hunting opportunities. I hope it bears fruit and your problems are few.

I could never own enough to keep from wondering what is over the hill, so it wouldn't do me much good. However, my legs are starting to not like that as much as they did in the past, so I may have to change.

Battue - Believe me the deer do not stay on just my property. Neighbors also benefit, and some of them do a bit so I probably get a small bump from them too. I by far am the most agressive about trying to improve my opportunities.

I hear you about wanting to see what is over the next hill. My legs are not quite aggressive as they once were either.

I have a friend who bought his own piece and has worked his butt off to bring it up to what it is today. Really nice camp, corn and food plots, two nice lakes, well water, addition to camp, farming equipment, rifle range, on and on.

I get invited to hunt, have fun and do a little work around the place from time to time. His deer meat is some of the most expensive in the State. More important than the Deer is the relationship he has developed and the values that have been instilled in his kids. Doubt if he will ever have many worries of them going down to many wrong paths.

Yep - No doubt I could buy a lot of fillet mignon for what I invest in improving our deer herd. But it is really not about the money, I enjoy the work and one can not put a price on the rewards one gets back. Good to hear about your buddy and his property. What a great experience to share with his kids. Hope the kids realize what they have there.

I have a small piece in 3A to hunt on and it has been very good to me over the past 30 years. Also have permission to hunt on hundreds of acres of adjoining mixed woods and farmland, too.

Deer hunting has changed dramatically there from 40+ years ago and mostly in the past 10 years. Land has changed hands (plenty now owned by non-locals); far fewer deer drives; most guys that don't live in the area, now just sit for the first few days, then go home.

Fewer deer than in the late 90s, even fewer hunters moving them these days, but there are still deer around. Problem is that many guys never see enough deer to suit them, so to them, there are now no deer there.

Here's another thing that has changed: We did once have major problems with hunters from NJ, MD and DE coming to the area and tromping all over the place on posted farms in firearms deer seasons. Now, many of them have bought land in the area to hunt on and have posted it to the hilt. Go figure?

In a nutshell: Here is my problem with Sunday hunting as it pertains to Pa.

If you don't want to hunt on Sunday's, then don't hunt Sunday. If you don't want people hunting on your property on Sunday's, then don't let them hunt Sunday's.

But don't tell me I can't hunt on Sunday on private land where I have been granted permission or on Pa public land which as a resident of Pa, I own just as much of as any resident of Pa. Telling me I can't because somebody else doesn't want to is BS. What? I can't hunt on Sunday because somebody that might be trespassing is somewhere they aren't supposed to be ? That is crap! That would be like saying none of us can drive cars any more because some people choose to break the law and drive drunk.

Upset farmers posting their property is a hollow threat. 10-15 years ago, yeah maybe. But there is hardley any open private land any more that is not posted, even in the rural area's. It's been bought up and posted by out of staters or the land owners have gotten smart and have leased it out, and the leasers have posted it.

I am thoroughly convinced that the long term future of hunting in Pa is doomed. No Sunday hunting will only make that day sooner than later.

Sunday hunting in any state isn't a bad thing. A LOT of folks who would love to hunt work 6 days a week,sometimes at 2 jobs and the only day they have free is maybe a Sunday.

NY has had Sunday hunting for years. The NY line is not far from where I hunt in north central PA. Now that their firearms deer season starts on a Saturday, the next day is pretty popular.

By the following Sunday, which is the day prior to our opener in PA, there is hardly anyone out hunting over in NY. For every shot fired over there that Sunday, there will probably be 50 shots fired on the PA side, from guys "tuning up" for Monday.

Of course, many are opposed to Sunday hunting in PA because it might annoy someone if they have to hear a shot or so.

It's more like a barrage here in Southeastern Pa. during dove and goose seasons and upstate during rifle deer. And it IS annoying. Sundays are quiet and enjoyable sitting on the porch. Weekdays and Saturdays suck because every guy out there has to fire 3 shots at each dove within 100 yds. It gets old fast.

Unless you have a way to keep the noise on your property and off mine, I can't support Sunday hunting with fireams for small game, birds or big game.

Maybe rimfires for groundhogs and squirrel would be quiet enough and not be noticed.

Dale

Is it okay if I decided to fire up my lawn tractor, Stihl chainsaw or leaf blower on a Sunday afternoon, or would I need everyone else's permission to work around my property of a Sunday? ;O)

What if it rained all day Saturday, I had to work all week and Sunday afternoon was the only time I could do outdoors work that needed done around the place?

Actually have some neighbors that will get up bright'n early on a Sunday to do the above. It can be slightly annoying, but ya know what, that's their business.

Same for Sunday hunting here, if and when PA finally slogs into the current century. Surprised no one has yet come up with my "favorite" reason for no Sunday hunting:

The wildlife also needs a day of rest. Sniff!

Blue laws...aren't they great? All the crap about religious reasons, day of rest and all that is bogus. If that were the case then businesses and malls would be shut down too. I haven't seen one reasonable or logical explanation yet as to why they should not allow it.

I can almost understand your concern if you live next to a good dove field. As I matter of fact I look at that as a bonus to live in area that there are large quantities of game to be hunted. Kind of a prerequisite to justify the purchase of a license. When enough Doves are around to hunt them, I have found that they are here for only a short period of the season and then move on, especially if they are gunned hard.

However, I doubt that many are sitting out on the porch during the various Pa. rifle Deer seasons and that many shots are being fired.

Many here have built homes next to existing gun clubs and now complain about the shooting. Fortunately in Pa. we have a grandfather law with regards to that situation.

When I started this thread it was about the primary rifle deer season and none other. All I am hoping for is an additional 2 Sundays.

Sorry Rich, but I think you are going to have to hope for at least another year.

The way I see it Sunday deer hunting in Pa. won't happen in my lifetime.............made for a good thread though!

You're comparing apples and oranges for 2 reasons. One, you're most likely not running your lawnmower all day. Hunters are out there all day. Two, my house is far enough away from others that I can't hear their lawnmower but I can hear gunshots.

And you don't have to be outside to hear the shots, you can hear close ones inside the house too.

Dale

OK, then I am opposed to that. Not all Sunday hunting, but definitely that.

Besides, there is only one Sunday between opening and closing days.

Dale

Well imagine that!!!! I'm guessing that you never visit a rifle range on Sunday, that is within a mile of any house.

Yeah, but I can remember when many of us thought we'd never live long enough to see the day we could actually shoot more'n one deer per year, either.

So be of stout heart and good cheer. ;O)

We now have Youth Mentored Hunting for kids younger than 12; Multiple deer per year; Concealed handgun carry while archery and turkey hunting (and spotlighting); Special days for junior hunters and other things that were once considered unattainable here in stodgy ol' PA.