http://www.louisianasportsman.com/details.php?id=3658

I saw a picture of the wardens holding this rack and it was indeed a world class buck and would have possibly been our new state record.

What's sad is that it was legally taken except for the cal(204, via the 204 Ruger). He could have taken it with the lowly 22 Hornet and been legal, yet he took it with a cart of greater ballistics and got nailed. If it would have been a normal size buck, I doubt anything would have been done to him.

you can't fix stupid

They want to hang him up for felony fraud for killing a deer with a caliber to small? That is utterly absurd. This is a very minor violation. No reason for any penalty other than a small fine and call it a day.

Trying to trump up minor charges into something more than what is fair just makes law enforcement look stupid.

readonly, It all has to do with the caliber of the buck

I would imagine some jealous hunters are the ones pushing the issue, possibly some big money hunters in the same contests.

Whether the law is rightous or not, it's still the law.

Yes. The regulations are just a guideline that sportsmen may or may not elect to follow. If one can read, he should have no excuse. Trophy or not.

He may have broken "THE LAW" but he didnt do anything that is unethical or morally reprehensible.
"THE LAW" varies according to culture local tradition and in many cases it is based in inaccurate information that is foised upoon a biased public by uninformed public officials.
Remeber.. the assault weapons ban was "THE LAW". Seatbelt requirments are "THE LAW". Prohibition was "THE LAW".
Everyone reading this has/ will break some law today before the sun is high in the sky.
The difference is that you justify your actions and condem the actions of another.
So what if this guy never speeds? always wears his seatbelt? reports online purchases and pays state retail taxs on them? ect ect ect...
BUT he shot a deer with a smaller caliber than some state no nothing decided was legal.
I see the same thing here in SC.
In various game zones its legal to bait deer, run dogs, shoot deer with rimfires ect ect ect.
in other game zones its illigal. Same state. same taxs. same licence fees...
So he violated the caliber clause in the weapons/ methods code. BIG F-IN DEAL.
he should pay the exact fine that the last person who was charged in the state paid.

Some of you guys would turn in your Jewish neighbors, have your son executed for being gay...
So tell me you guys who think "ITS THE LAW"...

A 20 year old war wounded USMC veteran coming home from Afgan... Would you say he should or shouldnt be able to share a beer with his father?
The surest sigh of a declining culture is the peoples inability to disern right from wrong without LAW.

"The conflicting interests of competing groups often leads to differences of opinion about right and wrong, and these differences of opinion can easily escalate into political power struggles. The winners of these struggles usually get to impose their own ideas about right and wrong upon everyone else."

If I read the article right what is hanging him is entering the big deer contests with an illegal kill. Assuming of course he knew it was illegal.

I disagree. I believe that persons who violate the law in egregious way, should be punished to the full extent allowed under statute.

This is the dumbest damned thing I've ever heard and anyone who thinks it is okay, is so stupid as to not be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

ignorance of the law is no excuse

the game laws that are written are not guidelines or suggestions

i hope he gets more than he deserves

Anybody notice that the hunter's name is Bill Jordan?

It would be ridiculous if they confiscated the deer but I do agree that ignorance is no excuse for the law and he should at least have to pay a small fine.

Maybe he was out shooting crows with his .204 and spotted the buck. Who knows?

I agree that he should have to face fines for breaking the law. What I don't agree with is the fact that if the buck would have been smaller or even if it were a doe and he had been caught, he would have simply gotten a small ticket and nothing more. It happens all the time, some people get reamed and others get a slap on the hand for breaking the same laws.

Define egrigious. Proportionality is an important component of law. In this case, the response is not proportionate to the offense.

Not necessarily. Some states have statutes which reflect the extent of punishment in accordance with the trophy quality of an animal that is illegally killed. But, other factors also play into the punishment, such as the egregious nature of the crime and so on and so forth, regardless as to whether or not the animals is/was a trophy.

Maverick, I am aware that some states base the punishment on the trophy size, but I don't believe La does. I could be wrong. If that were the case, his fines would be far greater.

I bet he doesn't shoot anymore deer with that cart

Of course, he could have shot it with a 35grn XTP from a 25ACP at a blistering 800fps and been perfectly legal. That makes alot of sense.

I would be interested to know what evidence they have to substantiae the crime in this case. A confession alone is not enough to uphold a confession, there must me some extrinsic substantiation. Unless there is a third party witness, or some phyiscal evidence of the caliber....he may need to fight this one out, and if he does they may have a hard time convicting.

I'm sure you can find information on the local dispatch report and in local media. I haven't looked into it as yet, but there's no doubt that plenty if information per the crime is available in local venues/formats.

Frick, this is Louisiana. More deer have been killed with a .22 and a spotlight than all the other calibers combined. It is just insanity.

Pretty stupid if you ask me. I could see going after him if shot it out of season, at night or trespassed. I can't believe he confessed, they must of water boarded him!

Can't figure why the big dummy would admit to shooting the buck with an undersized rifle when he knew it was illegal. The fraud stuff is just nuts.

He should have used "the stinky bait".

I'm betting he didn't realize it was illegal or figured that he would just have to pay a fine since everything else about the kill was completely legal.

I would like to see the Picture of this Buck

Me too.

Hey Readonly, are you practicing for the bar exam or are you just full of organic fertilizer?

Quite a few years ago in a Central LA paper there was a story of a gentleman (doctor I think) who took a deer with a spear he had made. It was a nice buck. Bad part is, that is illegal to take a deer in LA with a spear. Seems like he had the deer taken away from him. Been many years ago so memory is a little fuzzy.

I take it you heard about the 218 B&C non-typical Louisiana buck that a young lady killed this past fall? The buck had made his escape from a high-fence "ranch" and then walked past her stand. How lucky is that ?!!!!!

I suspect that he wasn't hunting deer at the time. He might well have been hunting swamp rats or whatever when he saw the deer. He might not have even given the caliber law a thought in his excitement. That doesn't make it legal, however.

Possibly he thought the buck was a giant prehistoric swamp rat with antlers, or something?

It's tha law but I don't personally have to agree with it.

With that being said, he broke it and must accept responsibility.

There must be a felony law on the books in LA about "cheating" in contests.

I have an issue with "Big Buck Contests" myself. But that is whole other topic.

Some laws are stupid. And to enforce this one is even more stupid.

Maybe I can go along with a fine but thats it.

When you could use a 22 hornet, legally but the idiots that wrote the law won't allow at .204 with more energy... well plain ignorant.

Of course I think its ignorant to enter deer contests too..... but thats just my opinion also. Not many folks get to see what I shoot, what I shoot is for me mostly, not to brag to others. Folks that feel the need to brag kinda bother me.

Sounds like a really nice buck though. Wonder if the guy knew he was illegal? I'd bet the "confessed" part is a game officer asking what he used and he had no clue(no excuse I realize) or that he had to put weapon on the contest data.

PErsonally I bet I"d win if you knew how many deer were lost to "legal" calibers like the 06 and such, vs the "illegal" ones... still so many folks believe if the deer doesn't fall over its not hit. And the phuggin hunting shows on TV are SOBs for making that bang flop shot seem like thats the ONLY reaction you typically ever get.

Ok, off my soapbox...

If I break a law today and get caught, I will have to pay whatever fine or jail time that is written down for that law. Same with him, as it should be. If you want to be exempt from the law you need to join the Obama administration. miles

Yes I did hear about that. If I read it correctly, if someone shoots a deer like that here one has to pay restitution for the deer. I am not sure how one can tell it was a high fence deer though when they shoot it. Looks like the land owner would be responsible for his own deer getting loose. In this case, the owner of the high fence knew the family of the girl that shot it so he did not demand restitution which would have cost about 10k if I remember correctly.

As much as I despise the fact that many Laws and Regulations
have taken away much of our Freedoms, and I have a general distrust for many (not all) who enforce those Laws, I have to say that without LAWS our way of life, as we know it, couldn't exist.
Now let me relate to you an incident that shows that Fareness and Common sense still exists in some areas of Hunting Reglations and Enforcement.
Last December, as every December, I traveled " Back Home" to
to hunt deer with family members at our family homestead in the Allegheny National Forrest of western Pennsylvania.
In that game unit a "Legal Buck" must have atleast THREE points
on atleast one side.
A family member misstakenly shot the biggest rack "Y" buck any of us had ever seen! After much debate, we loaded up the deer and took it to the nearest "Check Station" and fessed up.
There were five PA Game Wardens there and all agreed that the
the buck had a great rack , but the kill was illigal.
Because my family member "Fessed-Up" there was only a $25 fine,
AND they issued him a replacement tag. They confiscated the deer
but with in 20 minutes, people from the Salvation Army were there and processed the deer.

Keep the Faith and know the Constitution.

Rabbitdog

Virtually all laws listing specifics need to have some cut off points. In this instance it sounds like it's 22 caliber. The cut off could have just as easily been 17, 20, 24, or even 50 caliber. If one is flying a model airplane, speed might be limited to 300 mph and an altitude of 600 ft. The regs are written that way to be consistent and avoid judgement call situations. Think of the mess if one judge was fine with a 20 caliber while another insisted on at least a 24.

Even minimum foot pounds of energy would be difficult to enforce for marginal cartridges. A hopped up handload might exceed the minimum where a lesser charge would fall short. If ones load was actually checked, he could argue that he just used his last hot one on that deer over there.

Geezz! The law or regulation was on the books and he screwed up. If the law states that his game can be seized, so be it, and he should man up and learn from his errors whether they were willful or not.

I don't do contests, but I would be royally pissed if I made a legal and concerted effort to generate a winner and then got scooped by a known illegal entry. Can you imagine the fireworks if one lost a Bass Master Classic to a poached fish?

Yes, none of us are perfect and every day we may or may not elect to violate laws. I speed all the time and rarely come to a complete halt at stop signs. If I get ticketed, that's OK, I certainly deserved it, and I will pay the fine without crying or complaining. If the state had the right to take my crew cab for such an infraction, I might think twice about drifting through that stop sign. There are plenty of other laws that I will not violate, one being big game hunting with sub legal arms.

If one doesn't like the rules, he can politic to have them changed or find a different place to live.

Regarding Rabbit Dog's prior post. One can bet that results might have been different had they been been caught under other circumstances attempting to elude discovery. They did the right thing.

It was a recognizable buck and became a legal deer under the State's authority when it escaped the enclosure. She killed it legally and no restitution is mandanted in that case.

Exactly! If he was quail hunting and jumped the thing and unloaded 3 rounds of 8 shot into it's gut and let it run 2 miles and eventually die I guess that would be fine with some folks too. As has been pointed out, there is a REASON there are minimum cartridge requirements in some (all?) states for certain game and though you can nit pick to death the perceived 'loopholes' making them EASY TO UNDERSTAND and meaningful is often a delicate balance. You'd hope that by saying "Only centerfire of .22 cal or greater" people would get the general idea.
The felony charges were for 'contest fraud' not the killing of the deer.
He was an idiot on multiple fronts and I hope he pays idiot prices for it.

22's are not a legal caliber for deer hunting here in CT, yet my departed Uncle George, my name sake, shot all his deer in the last 17 years of his life with a 22 hornet with 45 gr Speer SP bullets. I should know about that since I loaded that ammo for him, got the rifle a savage 340 I think, called me up and say hey can you load some ammo for me, I loaded some 400 rounds for him, when he died, I had to help settle things, I did an ammo count there was still 236 of those hornets left. And he never shot paper, and he never bought any meat in the store either. That guy in Louisiana is just stupid, and he is going to pay for the stupidity. If it was a fork horn or an old dry doe, no one would even care, a buck that would get into the record books well that is something else altogether.

In Idaho, privately owned elk must be ear tagged with clearly visible tags. The main reason is so they can be identified if they escape to help prevent them from breeding with wild animals. It's also to prevent the spread of CWD but that's never been found in Idaho.
The law says that escaped animals become legal for hunters after they've been on the lam for 7 days. How the heck a hunter can determine that is beyond me.

People can be schitheads in how they go out and get their meat and trophies.
People can be just as big of schitheads in how they choose to enforce the law, or "contests".

Bullshit

Unless you are a LEO in the state of La. Here they are protected by state law.

A felony for using the wrong caliber? You've got to be kidding.

If memory serves me correctly, the felony counts fall under the Rico Act.

One would think that it could be taken legally, but according to the article I have linked to the story that isn't so. Just as Rock Chuck states below, the deer had a tag mandated by law. I couldn't remember the exact circumstances, but apparently it was a tagged deer. What makes me wonder about it is the fact that they had so many trail cam pics of it I would think they could have seen the tag in at least one of the pics.

LA woman kills escaped deer

What evidence would they have that he used a 204?

You have a right to remain silent and get a lawyer. Do not do an interview until you get legal advice.

He probably only hung himself in the interview after filling out an application form for a big buck contest. Very stupid mistake! (after using an illegal weapon).

no, actually, a confession will do just fine. He admitted the fact of the violation, apparently. If he gets on the stand and denies it, says it was a mistake, or whatever....it's a jury question whether he was lying when he confessed or when he denied it.

that said, it seems a massively disproportionate response to an error of .016 inch in bullet diameter. if he'd killed it with a .25-20, no problemo.

ruin a mans life over using the wrong caliber on a animal.stupity at its finest

"The conflicting interests of competing groups often leads to differences of opinion about right and wrong, and these differences of opinion can easily escalate into political power struggles. The winners of these struggles usually get to impose their own ideas about right and wrong upon everyone else."

I agree. The law is the law! Laws are made for a reason. And he broke it. Period. If he didn't know the law, HE SHOULD OF. And that's his fault. We shouldn't defend law breakers.

still no Picture

I am sorry, but you are wrong. The legal principle is called Corpus Delecti. The defendent need not take the stand at his trial, and without independent corroborating evidence that a crime has been committed, his out of court confession is insufficient to establish a prima facie case.

whats the difference between him using the wrong caliber and you speeding?
not wearing a seatbelt?
not paying taxs on online purchases?

I really get fed up with some of you hypocrites.

He used bullet that someone decided was to small. OK
fine him.

you fkin guys would have him burned at the stake.

somebody once said that Nothing of choice is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate.

As Shakespeare put it in King Lear "the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.�

Ok so what is wrong with shooting one day out of season? Where do you draw this line sir?

Yes I speed and if cuaght I will pay the fine because that is what we as A people have set forth.

Don't try to fade that line sir it gets very dim!

There's absolutely no difference what so ever. When I get caught I man up and pay. I don't speed, however, in an attempt to bag a trophy and carry off the winnings in several big buck contests.

the punishment should fit the crime.
Its just a little thing call justice.
google it.

Making someone a felon, taking away thier right to own firearms and vote. taking away thier livelyhood and dispariging thier character and reputation for using a bullet that was too small?

FK YEAH!!!
LETS GET HIM!

RING WORM the name is starting to fit! It's the LAW try looking it up!!

I'd take it to court, point out the actual POWER of the round vs other less powerful rounds and speak of the INTENT of the law vs the law.....

Ya know you still hear of folks spitting on sidewalks being illegal too...

Not to mention how many folks been killed with a 223, that its a non issue at all to me. And shouldn't be to fish and game either in reality.

[bleep] with wally world 06s bore sighted and never zero'd shooting at deer that run off(wounded or dying) and dont' even look for the deer because I musta missed because it didn't fall over are much more of an issue to me anyway.

Maybe the third time is the charm. The FELONY counts are for contest fraud NOT the illegal weapon charge. The illegal weapon charge is NOT a felony and I suspect carries a pretty soft sentence.

Yes. Worth repeating for those hard of reading.

he didnt defraud the contest. he violated the rules of the contest by breaking a game law to get the buck.
that would make him ineligible to win the contest, not a felon.

Sounds like Mr. Jordan needs to place a simple phone call to the DA to clear up this little misunderstanding then.
Do you know the statute he violated?
If you forge a check does that make you 'ineligible to cash the check' or a criminal?

Note the bolded items below.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/news/35001
Release Date: 01/23/2012

Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries Enforcement Division agents cited a Franklin Parish man Jan. 19 for alleged deer hunting violations and contest fraud.

Agents cited Billy W. Jordan, 54, of Winnsboro for taking a deer with an illegal weapon and four felony counts of contest fraud.

Agents received information that Jordan had taken a trophy buck on Louisiana Delta property in Catahoula Parish with a .204 caliber rifle. Agents interviewed Jordan and he allegedly confessed to shooting the buck with the illegal weapon on Dec. 28.

Jordan then entered the buck into four big buck contests including Morehouse, Ouachita, Caldwell and LaSalle parishes. The buck sported 15 points with main beams of 31 1/2 inches and an inside spread of 24 7/8 inches.

Louisiana law requires that deer can only be taken with a center fire rifle at least .22 caliber or larger. The antlers and the four score sheets at the big buck contest were seized as evidence. Jordan will also be assessed civil restitution for the value of the illegally taken deer, which is $2,033.29.

Taking a deer with an illegal weapon brings a fine between $100 and $350 and up to 60 days in jail. Contest fraud carries a fine up to $3,000 and up to one year in jail for each count.

Agents involved in the case were Senior Agents Bear Fletcher and Lee Tarver and Agents Kurt Hatten and Kenny Robertson.

For more information, contact Adam Einck at 225-765-2465 or [email protected].

He probably put on the contest forms that he killed it with a .204 Ruger. That is probably where the game wardens got their information.

what did he misrepresent?
that the deer was killed with an illegal caliber?
it was, so how would that be false?

Any statement as to the caliber used that was made before being mirandized would be inadmissable.
No case.

Everything I've read states he confessed to the illegal weapon use and THEN entered the deer into 4 contests. Every contest I'm aware of asks questions to confirm that the animal was LEGALLY taken. Some go so far as lie detector tests. Presumably he lied when entering the contests and said his deer was a legal kill, hence the 'false representation'.
If he's not guilty of a what appears to be a pretty clear statute, he'll be exonerated and only be subject to the nominal fines for the illegal weapons charge(and less likely short prison time).

Maybe that's actually the order in which he did it, maybe not. But even so, I doubt the game wardens posed their questions as, "Did you use an illegal .204 Ruger to kill that deer?" They probably just asked him, among lots of other questions, what he shot the deer with. I doubt they even commented that it was illegal at the time and probably only later informed him that they were going to press charges.

Let's assume that did happen.
What does that have to do with him then falsifying his entry information into the contests?
Like I said, this is an easy one. If he didn't commit the felonies, it will be VERY easy to prove by whatever information he provided to enter the contests.

He only falsified it if he realized that the .204 was illegal. And then of course, there are still plenty of issues to delve into. If he shot the deer in a sporting manner in a valid season I would defy anyone to identify a MATERIAL difference between shooting the deer with a .204 and a 30-06. I'm sure that under oath, the contest organizers would have no choice but to testify that there is no difference and that when they focused on illegalities, it was to keep people from entering pen raised deer, spotlighted deer, or deer kill out of season.

It will be really hard for a jury to give an otherwise solid citizen a felony record based on a misrepresentation of about a tenth of an inch. And that is assuming that he did it knowing full well the .204 was illegal.

The MATERIAL difference is one is a legal weapon and one is not.
Unfortunately we have to do too much guessing. Some ask you to state the weapon (and cartridge) you killed the animal with. If he lied, by mistating the weapon or by stating it was legally taken and he knew it wasn't, to me it's cut and dry. What difference does the 'intention' of their rule make? It was a rule that had he answered honestly would have denied him entry. If he lied to gain entry, that is contest fraud, cut and dry.
It's amazing how people can look at the same issue and come to such drasitically different conclusions.
Maybe the .204 is his preferred weapon of choice for deer hunting and maybe he had no clue it was illegal and maybe none of the 4 contests required him to state the weapon used and he was nothing but honest (as far as he knew) in all of his application information. If that is the case, then "ignorance is no excuse" comes back into play.
I'm not betting on it.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. However, contest rules are not THE LAW. The law is that it is against the law to enter a contest "WITH THE INTENT TO DEFRAUD".

So, if a hunter is ignorant that a .204 is against the law, he cannot have entered a contest WITH THE INTENT TO DEFRAUD.

I know a little bit about this case. The hunter in question told dozens of people that he had shot the deer with a .204 which is an illegal weapon to use on deer under Louisiana law. He even told of his illegal act as he was having the deer measured for some of the big buck contests he entered. He then signed the entries swearing and affirming that he had taken the deer legally. Some of these contests have prizes worth many thousands of dollars. This is where the fraud enters the picture.

Because he admitted (bragged) to so many people about his illegal act, he was turned in to the Louisiana W & F who had no choice but to question him and arrest him after he willingly confessed.

As with most criminals, it was his own indiscretion that did him in.

RS

Like I said, this would appear to be very easy to prove one way or the other. You are assuming he had no clue the .204 was illegal when he entered the contest and I am assuming he did know. But, we are just guessing.

Are you saying he was running his mouth when he KNEW it was an illegal weapon?

I'm not assuming anything, I'm saying "If".

GeauxLSU,

That's exactly what I'm saying.

RS

So, if as you say, he was told that it was an illegal act as he was having it measured by contest officials FOR THE CONTESTS, then I don't expect the contest fraud charges to stick. It seems as if they were on notice right there that the deer had been killed illegally. So, there clearly wasn't any fraud as that they knew.

He needs to hire a lawyer....one that knows the law and how to effectively handle a case in court.

If he doesn't, then he's a moron and probably deserves the butt whoopin they're trying to lay on him.