My beloved Wby mkv .257 usually gets to make the trip for whitetails, especially when hunting over wide open hay or grain fields.
However- some opportunities are at much closer ranges, such as stand hunting in more timbered areas.
I'm thinking that a lite Bob, pushing 100 gr. bullets at 3000+ speed, would be the perfect complement to my Roy, for whitetail.
Any experience, comments, or recommendations?

I loved my 257 Bob and I want another.Mine was stolen.

It's on the short list of cartridges for my son - when I decide to surprise him with a new rifle.

Bighorn - I no longer have a 257 Bob but I recently got his big Sister - the 6.5 Swede. The cases are virtually identical.

Obviously the 257 is what it is & the 6.5 is 264. With the proper bullets, I doubt there is any noticeable diff. WITHIN normal hunting ranges.

YES there are a lot of 257 Rob fans on the fire. Wait a little and they'll show up.

You're not going to find ANY Bob fans here, man !

I built a 257 AI on a Czech mauser a few years ago and LOVE it. I have a quarterbore Roy and love that too, but the Better Bob is SO much more "shootable".

This pronghorn that I killed with a 200 yard offhand shot resulting in a DRT seemed to have been impressed:



I wouldn't even start such a build today; I would pick up a 84 Classic and call it better than good!

My Bob a Ruger MKII with some tweeks done to it kilt lots of deer, mostly from other family members Muleys and whitetails both. Along with yotes and other ground burrowing and flying vermin.

My 14 year old shoots it well. She killed here first whitetail off of my shoulder last year at 120 some yards. It was a "DRT" deal.

The wife smoked her first muley buck with it at around 200 yards. Dropped, flopped around till outa site. Found it very dead not feet from where it had been shot, just flopped into a low spot.

As for a sole deer cartridge, I would not hesitate to use the Bob.... I just get lured away by louder, harder kicking rifles

The loads that did good on deer were 100 partition nudging 3100 fps and 117 grain btsp hornady at 2900 fps. Both shot easy 1/2 inch groups at 100 yds.

Got a hold of some OLD school partitions, in 117gr. simi-spitzers. Now them puppies leave holes in deer and shoot beautifully. To bad I only have less than 50

257 Roberts fans? They are legion.

I think Ingwewife would say it was OK

What is there NOT TO LIKE about the 257 Roberts for shooting whitetails?

A 20" or 22" rifle built in a format like the Kimber Montana, Remington 700 MR or 700 Ti, Ruger 77 RL, or Winchester 70 Featherweight would probably get you to the outcome you're looking for.

Jeff

Ingwewife says the Bob works on Mule deer too!

Good to see she's not a dink killer...

Dat was mean....

Me thinks she cathes bigger fish too!

Is that a 721 she's toting? That's a nice looking rifle...

AAHHHH, the .257 Roberts, there is know finer dual purpose cartridge!!!

I catch bigger feesh!


Its a Remington 722 ( the short action version) Her dad gave it to her when she was 16, and its her fave...so if you ever meet her, remember...the rifle is only 13 years old.......

Hey Ingwe -- why all them pics of her with game at DARK??

Won't they come in before sunset??

She needs a better GUIDE.
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NO INNUENDO.....only fun.

My wife and I have shot dozens of pronghorns, whitetails and mule deer with the .257, including some with my grandmother's Remington 722. The animals have included some of our better trophies, including the biggest whitetails Eileen and I have taken, at ranges out to 400+ yards. Have used a bunch of bullets, including 100 Hornady Interlock, 100 Barnes TSX (both tipped and not), 100 Speer Hot-Cor, 115 Berger VLD, 117 Sierra and Hornady, 100 and 115 Nosler Ballistic Tips, and 100, 115 and 120 Nosler Partitions. Oh, and one of my biggest mule deer was taken with the old 120-grain Nosler Solid Base. All the bullets worked fine.

Huh, are these trick questions?
The Bob works just fine up close or way out. I've killed a few antelope at over 350 yards with the Bob, and deer up close at less than 35 yards with Ned's dandy.
Like this W/T with my custom Browning 1885 Lo-Wall:



IMHO, the Bob is perfect for antelope and deer, and it doesn't seem to matter what type of bullet you shoot. For example, I've had plenty of success with conventional cup and core bullets like a 100 grain Sierra, or with 100 gr Nosler Partitions, and now with my fav Bob bullet - the 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip. Usually, a very good load with any of these 3 bullets in a 257 Bob is approximately 46 grains of H-4350.

You should give a good Bob a fair trial, you just might end up leaving the 257 Roy in the safe, and never looking back...

SuperCub ----a pic is worth 1000 words.

Man you sure said a lot.

THANKS

Ingwewife has GOOD luck hunting........





maybe NOT SO MUCH finding hubby!!

For the woods I always favored the .358 Win in a Featherweight. They weigh less than the .257R's that they made then. The larger round just suits that hunting in my view.

Then when the ranges get longer the little .257R does not have the stuff like the larger rounds do. To each his own on this however.

The 99F in the picture is a .358. Thats why I don't own or want a .257R. Too weak and heavy for the woods and too weak for the open.

Keeps on going

You mean Eileen and I have to resuscitate all the antelope and deer we've shot with various .257's at 300-400 yards?

Stunt shooter

When I ordered a new Ford convertible in 1969 I had a choice of a 6 or an 8. I got the 429 with air.

Yeah..., and funny how it wasn't "too heavy" for a woman.

For some men (strictly speaking gender here) there seems to be a need for bigger bores, and as seen, bigger engines... could be a 'compensation' issue I guess...


A girlfriend, when choosing her rifle, chose a 257 Roberts. She was able to bear the weight of that gun just fine, perhaps because she was a strapping 5'2" and 118lbs. It wasn't too weak of a cartridge in her hands, but then again she was shooting those screaming 117 grain factory loads.

Guessing you're still running an 8 track also. You've never figured out that [bleep] changes, but that's what makes you a complete frigging idiot.

And rightfully so. It is a great little cartridge.

Now that is some funny stuff right there.
"Too weak and heavy for the woods"
I feel like I am standing at the gun counter at Sportsman's Warehouse or something.

It's rather ironic that I chose THAT post to read when wondering whether you really oughta be on ignore !

Or trying to adopt a kid born from a brother/sister relationship.

Geez Don, do you always have to be Mr. Negative, Mr. Half-Full, Mr. Rain On The Parade? I know that hunting deer in VT is the very definition of frustration and can turn a person bitter, but do you have to drag all of your negative baggage with you to the campfire? If you never actually shoot an animal, the rifle/cartridge combination is pretty meaningless, regardless of bore size, don't you think?

Jeff

PS - If your Savage 99 is an "F", it appears to have a mis-matched "DL/M" stock on it.

You can't see me, Jeff, but I am standing to clap. Nice post.

Yes, we can see you. and pull your pants up and get that thing looked at...it ain't right.

Bahahahahaha!! Never mind that knot, I am hoping to get that burned off soon.

In a way the 257 Roberts is an ok round just like a hundred others. It's just that it's about dead.

It never caught on being a little too big as a varmint round and a little too small as a game round. It was designed by a famous and very good Schuetzen rifeman however.

The rifles the 257r. were chambered in back then were too big and heavy for game hunting with 26" barrels yet the round is light in a way and not really powerful enough. Most of us can shoot better guns.

The market has spoken and the little 257r. is dead.

The "market" is mostly about those of little knowledge and great opinion standing in line at Wally world the week before season opens to get junior his new wizbang deer rifle. Has little to do with deciding a cartridges worth for hunting.

But your 358 Win. is just burning up the sales charts, right?

Too-Shay.........

Yes the .358 Win. is even more dead than the 257R and it's not a in between cartridge either.

I made the .358 Win. mine for the fun of hunting up there in the VT woods. Perhaps many other rounds would have been as effective?

I have a few of them but I am hunting in a more open area now so I carry regular rounds and a magnum once in a while.

To add: I was in a gun shop in 1966 and there was that 99F in .358W. for $81.00. I brought it home and pushed my heavy 06 P-17 aside.

Don,

If you'll recall, the 257 Roberts was introduced in 1934, during the depths of The Great Depression, when few people had much surplus income to buy things that weren't necessary for basic living. Then there was WW2, when there weren't any civilian firearms being made in the U.S. for at least 3.5 years and only a limited amount of the most common hunting cartridges being produced from 1942 thru late 1945. So, from 1934 thru late 1945, the 257 Roberts languished because of a pretty unfriendly market environment, world wide financial crisis followed by world wide total war.

I'd speculate that most of the rifles sold in 257 Roberts were sold between 1945 and 1955, when the 243 was introduced. The most common rifles chambered for the 257 Roberts during that period were the Remington 722 & 760 and Winchester 70. Both the 722 and 70 came standard with 24" barrels. Winchester also sold the 70 Fwt with a 22" barrel and a few 70 Carbines with 20" barrels. FN and probably a few other companies in Europe chambered the 257 Roberts for their U.S. and Canadian markets, but I don't recall any common U.S. production rifle chambered in 257 Roberts that came standard with a 26" barrel. The Remington 722s in 222, 222 Mag, and 244 originally came with 26" barrels, but, IIRC, the rest of the early 722s were cataloged with 24" barrels.

I think that it is common knowledge that the original ballistics claimed for the 243 were exaggerated to make the 243 faster (on paper) than the 257 Roberts with equal bullet weights and, since speed sells, the rifles chambered in 243 flew off dealers' shelves while those in 257 Robert gathered dust. Consumers bought the hype and Warren Paige trumpeted the 243 as the perfect dual-purpose varmint & medium game cartridge from his position at Field & Stream. Interestingly, Jack O'Connor remained loyal to the 257 Roberts and wrote about the 250-3000, 257 Roberts, 243, and 244 as being more equal than different, in terms of actual "in the field" performance.

Also, for whatever reason, the 257 Roberts has always been loaded to less than its potential by Rem/Win, often with what seem like suboptimal bullet choices. I'm old enough to remember when Winchester/Olin cataloged 87, 100, and 117 grain factory loads for the 257 Roberts, but the 100 grain was a rather round nosed ST with a lower BC, rather than a sharp pointed soft-point with a superior BC.

You must be having a senior moment tonight, 'cause "yet the round is light in a way and not really powerful enough. Most of us can shoot better guns." just doesn't make any sense.

Jeff

I have a Winchester Featherweight XTR in 257 Roberts/Leupold 2x7,its one of my favorite guns!

Good posts Jeff....all true.

The Roberts was the second or third CF rifle I owned,a pre 64 M70 with the 24" barrel and I used it several years shooting woodchucks in New England.

Later friends and I built a bevy of the things and they saw action for more woodchucks here, then found their way on deer and bear hunts in New England,and antelope and mule deer in in Wyoming, Colorado, Texas, and gawd remembers where else.If you told my rancher friends in Wyoming the cartridge was inadequate as a mule deer and antelope cartridge, they'd think you were nuts.They shoot elk with them.

I killed my biggest ever pronghorn with one in Wyoming at about 400 yards,along with many others.

A 75 HP at 3400 fps leaves chunks of woodchucks,87 gr at 3300 knocks them for a loop,and a good 100-120 gr bullet through the chest of a deer of any size flat kills them.We know this from having done it, not read about it.

That pre 64 was heavy, but not the rifles I built or bought later on.Today there are Hawkeyes and Kimbers of reasonable weight.If you can't kill medium game effectively with one of these chambered in a Roberts,a guy needs to look elsewhere for the problem.

What is a regular round?

Rounds that make him [bleep].

Jeff,

Thanks for the information that the 722's came with 24" barrels. A buddy and I hunted chucks together and he had a 722 in the 257R and I carried my 722 in 222. Both rifles were heavy, plain and accurate and I though his barrel was the same as my 222.

His rifle was kind of loud for chucks on the farms. He shot the 87 gr bullet then.

None of the cartridges were as accurate as those that came out after about 1950 when Sierra started up and used the sizing up principle of bullet making. Thus many said that some new cartridge, like the 243, that came out about then is more accurate.

Never the less the 257R is dead and best at nothing.

I am going to the range now as it may rain later.

Don,

"Never the less the 257R is dead and best at nothing."

Really?

For the general shooting public, those shooters who only shoot a few rounds per year, don't reload, and aren't rifle snobs/loonies, the 257 Roberts has probably been "dead" for over 50 years. Other than in the Ruger 77, the 257 Roberts hasn't been cataloged as a standard offering from any of the other major U.S. firearms manufacturer for any extended periods of time, since Remington dropped the 722 in favor of the 700 in 1963 and since Winchester revamped the 70 in 1964. Even in the Remington 722, the number of 722s chambered in 257 Roberts dropped precipitously after 1956. According to John Lacy's book, pages 72 & 73, there were 19,446 722s produced in 257 Roberts between 1951 and 1956, but only 1,409 between 1957 and 1962. Over 93% of the 722s in 257 Roberts were made during the 1st half of the 12 year production run, leaving less than 7% to be made during the 2nd half of the production run, the portion that coincided with the introduction of the 243 and, to a much lesser extent, the 244.

In recent years, Remington has cataloged the 700 MR in 257 Roberts for awhile, made 1-year runs of both the 700 Classic and 700 CDL-SFs, and has made some non-cataloged limtied runs 700s and 760s for a couple of different wholesalers, with Grice coming immediately to mind. Winchester & Winchester/USRA have cataloged the 70 Fwt in 257 Roberts for awhile and, for a limited time, offered a matte/synthetic 70 carbine in 257 Roberts. AFAIK, Savage has never cataloged the 257 Roberts in their 110 series, but did make a non-cataloged limited run just prior to the introduction of the "improved" 110 series with the Accu-Trigger.

The 257 Roberts may be dead to the general shooting public, but it is alive and well respected by shooters in the know. I don't think that anyone can come up with an empirical formula to bestow the title of "best" or "worse" on any rifle cartridge. I get the impression that you've never owned a 257 Roberts, so your distain for it is mostly conjecture, rather than actual experience. IOW, you're expertise on the subject of "257 Roberts" is more of the "armchair" variety.

Jeff

As I wrote before I hunted with a buddy who shot one. He was a very good shot and the rifle was effective. It's just that the 257R is best at nothing.

It makes too much noise and is not ricochet ideal for pests. For deer any normal person can shoot more gun.

That buddy was up at the camp in VT and in the woods there hunting deer and a big old guy came up the hill towards him carrying the ubiquitous 740.

He stopped to chat and asked him what he was shooting. Of course it was his 722/257R. When hearing that it was only a 257R the hunter went into a diatribe how the 30-06 is what's needed here what with the deer and even a bear!

Finally he left and continued up the hill. Soon after he is out of sight a buck comes into view and my buddy shoots it and it falls dead. The hunter comes back down the hill at the shot and sees the buck. He shakes his head.

It's still best at nothing. That's why it's dead.

I think that your lack of personal experience may have contributed to your short-sighted negative bias toward the 257 Roberts.

As a dual-purpose cartridge that bridges the gap between pure varmint cartirdges and pure medium game cartridges (if such a beast actually exists), it is (IMO) as good as any.

What are the cartridges that are, IYO, "best" at anything? I'd like to see that list if it is based on in-depth personal experience, rather than pure speculation.

Jeff

PS - Being a numbers guy, I re-keyed the data in Lacy's book into an EXCEL file and came up with these fun facts about the Remington 722:

Total production = 117,595

222 production = 55,700 (47.37%)
257 production = 20,855 (17.73%)
300 production = 16,756 (14.25%)
244 production = 12,140 (10.32%)
308 production = 6,155 (05.25%)
222Mproduction = 3,803 (03.23%)
243 production = 2,185 (01.86%)

Well said Jeff.

I bought my .257 just shortly after ruger was manufacturing the MKII. Even then Not once did I give a thought to it being "dead" commercially, did not matter cause I 'roll my own'. If I had to buy factory stuff all the time..... I would be just as upset as the person you give that very good rebuttal too

I read how good the cartridge performed having a slight edge on the 6mm counterparts, be the game ground squirrels or spike elk. I have an Uncle who killed all game Montana had to offer shy of moose, woofs and Grizz bears. So when I had a chance to by a rifle so chambered, I did.

Over the years the light rifle has flawlessly slain a small heard of deer between me and my family members, the wives first bear, coyotes WAY out across the timothy and stubble fields. I do take it elk hunting on occasion, I have just not had THAT rifle in my arms when the opportunity has arose.

I can say first hand the 257 Roberts is not dead, its LEATHAL.

I think it is HILARIOUS for anyone to say the 257 Roberts is dead......

and then hunt the 358 W.



That said, I've had a few 358s and I like em.

Along with a lack of personal experience, I think being full of BS may be at the root of his feelings about the .257.

1) As far as I know, the only factory .257 with a 26" barrel has been the Ruger No. 1B--which is indeed way too heavy. All the Remington factory rifles and Winchester Model 70 sporter had 24" barrels. As for the Remington 722 being too heavy, mine weighs an ounce over 8 pounds with a 6x36 Leupold, and had been carried many miles by my wife Eileen.

2) The .257 is far from dead. More than one company produces at least a limited run now and then to satisfy demand. This is very common these days, with CNC machinery. (In fact, it's done with the .358.) And some companies chamber the .257 as one of their "regular" cartridges in some models, including Ruger and Kimber.

3) All of today's factory rounds for the .257 aren't underloaded--except for the original 117 round-nose Core-Lokt from Remington. The others all use spitzer bullets at +P velocities, even if they don't call them +P. Ammo factorfies wouldn't do that if the .257 was dead.

I haven't shot any 257 Roberts factory ammo for probably going on 30 years now, just reloads in the 75 to 120 grain range, and within that range mostly 75 grain Sierra HPs for predators and 90 grain Sierra BTHPs for whitetails.

Although I have some nice rifles chambered in 257 Roberts, including a light small ring Mexican Mauser that used to reside at the home of some guy in Townsend, MT, and I keep building them, I haven't shot the 257 much since I switched over to the unloved and unappreciated 25 WSSM in 2004.

Jeff

So what? Who needs to?

I can use integral calculus to find the area of a triangle, but I don't.

Wouldn't using 1/2 LxH be easier than integral calculus?

Jeff

Yes,buy a Bob...

Exactly my point. Why use "more gun" when it simply isn't necessary?

Well, with this kind of reasoning, the see saw has reached the other spectrum.

Why have we developed anything past 250 Savage, 30-30,30/40Krag,or maybe 348 W.?

We seem always to go to extremes. I am not ANTI almost any cartridge, altho some are far from my fav.

I prefer 2506 amongst 25s, 270 OR 280 etc. I prefer flatter, harder hits at long range. It's easier to hit at distance w/flatter traj.

Why limit ourselves to MINIMUMs? YMMV

This is MY choice - no one else has to agree. Feel free to disagree.

I love dead rounds....

Who said anything about having to use the minimum?

I'm against Don's oft repeated opinion that you should always use the most gun you can handle.

I don't want to NOR am I going to argue about this.

What you said is awfully close to using the minimum necessary.

IF I MISINTERPRETED, okay, but that's what it sounded like.

The basis of the whole thread was the 257 Roberts. I don't consider this to be the minimum, if there is one.

Me, too!

My favorite long action 6.5mm cartridges is the deader than dead 256 Newton. Born in the teens, died in the twenties, and hasn't been factory loaded for around 70 years.

Jeff

Chambered in a regular round? You make no sense.

I didn't see where minimalism s advocated; I think you're reading into the post.

That having been said, the Bob isn't it...

Jeff,

The 256 Newton is a fantastic cartridge and is one of those I was thinking about along with a bunch of others. Another dead one I love is the old 300 Savage...

The first short mag isn't dead for me.

Amen here also, just like the Bob!!!

I AM NOT ARGUING, just explaining ...

'more gun.... isn't necessary' = minimum.

YES he did not (than) but was AWFULLY CLOSE.

Just an explaination...nothing more..

IF I mis understood - OKAY - I'm not worried about it.

I am a very new 257 Roberts fan, purchased a little Ruger UL here at the fire and used it on a doe hunt last fall, the 100 gn TTSX kicked out at a bit over 3100 fps did a fantastic job on the deer.

A very lightweight and easy carrying rifle with no recoil and a mild mannered report.

Gunner

jwall,

In my experience the .257 is a LONG way from minimal on deer-sized game. In fact quite a few people here in Montana use it on elk with complete confidence--or the .25-06, which really isn't as different as many people imagine.

Both Eileen and I hae used .25's from the .250 Savage to the .257 Weatherby on a bunch of game. They all kill real well if the bullet goes in the right place.

Here's THE explanation of what I wrote, and I know since I wrote it.

Note the quotation marks I put around more gun when I responded to Savage_99's post. He was referring to using more gun relative to the topic cartridge of this thread, the 257 Roberts. When I quoted his words, their meaning in my post is then the same as their meaning in his: more gun relative to the 257 Roberts.

Putting the pieces together, my question

Why use "more gun" when it simply isn't necessary?

means exactly the same thing as

Why use more gun than the 257 Roberts when it simply isn't necessary?


To be excruciatingly explicit, context and the use of "" turns more gun into more gun than the 257 Roberts.

I'm OUT.....undestand, it doesn't MATTER to me.

OK, but you were the one who kept bringing it up after I corrected your misinterpretation.

+1

Winchester is appropritely sized, and very nice looking rifle. Also handles nicely in the stores, when I was lusting after them. I've got a Ruger 77 (tang safety). in the "Bob", and I really like the round. It's just that the rifle is too damn heavy for such a connoiseur's round.

I bought the Ruger when I was about 14, and had saved up enough money. I had poured over ballistics charts, reloading manuals, etc. and decide on the .257. The Ruger was the only game in town at that time. I'd like to have gotten one in the Rem 700 mountain rifle when that came out, but the deal was sealed by that time.

Sighting in my Dad's Rem 760 30-06 carbine, helped me to decide on a softer shooting round, and while the "Bob" can be accused of bordering on obsolescence I thought that as a handloader I was somewhat immune to that. I got everything I hoped for, a sweet shooting, low recoiling rifle that knocks deer down. Just two whitetails so far, but one of these days soon I'm going to take a few coyotes with it.

I believe Mr. Ken Waters thinks highly of it for a deer rifle as well.

You won't go wrong with it.

Good Hunting!!

Joe

Well, I guess the score will be settled this fall- today I bought a NIB, Ruger #1 Light Sporter, Lipsey's edition, in .257 Roberts! I'm a big fan of #1's, although I only own 2 at the moment.
No pics yet, probably won't get delivery for another week or so, but I'm pumped!

You do know more is often times just more right?

Let's say you're towing your 3000 pound boat with a Dodge Ram with a Cummins and Don says to use a Peterbilt, would that mean the Dodge was minimal?

Dats a classy rifle!!

Congrats - Sounds like a SWEET rig.

I've always like the Light Sporter and the 257 R is more than enough.

It DOES NOT MATTER to me .....but I'd take the Peterbilt

Of all the rifles that I've owned in 257 Roberts, I think that the Remington 700 MR is about as perfect a match of rifle and cartridge as you'll find in a standard production factory specs rifle. I also like the Roberts in the 700 CDL-SF, but it fits me better with a McM McMillan Hunter handle in place of the factory wood.

Jeff

Yeah, but the idiot has me on ignore and quoting me is the only way Don can see what I post. Blow me Don.

Ooohh, I feel so USED...dog.

Congrats on the new #1 Classy rifle with a classy cartridge...... this from an actual owner and user of the bob'.

Pi$$'n matches and all other pointless BS aside, I really doubt you will be let down with your choice.

Funny how that works...some don't get it.

Tang safety model 77 hereand use to have a 700 classic. I love mine. Deer don't seem too taken with it though all the deer I've shot with a roberts have been pretty much DRT.

Apparently, the latitude at which a cartridge is used has more to do with it's effectiveness than bore size, case capacity, or any other ballistic detail. That's the only explanation I can think of for why Alaskan's are able to kill large bear, moose and caribou with 223s and 243s, but as you go south in the lower 48, bigger and bigger cartridges are needed for 100 pound whitetail deer.
I am constantly amazed at the eternal hand wringing over selecting a cartridge to kill a deer or an elk. There are decades of hundreds of thousands of examples to show what doesn't work and what does work. There are dam few that don't work, given intelligent bullet selection and proper bullet placement, and dam few that will work absent either or.

some of us are slow learners?

Or somehow feel reassured by a positive Internet vote....

I just love these discussions about what it takes to kill a deer sized animal. With some claiming the 257R is minimal and others saying it's just perfect. After I had killed a couple good bucks I thought knew absolutely everything on the subject. I could and would offer opinions about the perfect deer rifle and round. That was a long time ago. I don't know exactly how many deer sized animals I've killed in the last 50 years, but it would be in the hundreds. One thing I learned is that it hard to tell or see any difference in killing power(what ever that is) between a 243 and a 7RM. given similar shot placement on a deer. Sometimes actual,but limited experience, confuses the issue . Once on hunt in California a companion shot a deer just above the knee, the animal ran a few yards and lay down and let the hunter walk up and finish him off. On the same hunt another companion shot a deer several times with a 308 before killing it. Based on this first hand experience it might seem that the .243 is a hell of a deer round, just hit one anywhere and it'll go down, but The .308 really sucks. All I know for sure is if you put a good bullet at a reasonable velocity through the heart/lung area a deer/antelope etc., the animal is not long for this world.

Someone on here once said something along the lines of dancing on the head of a pin or pole vaulting over mouse schitt or something like that. Applies to most of these threads but then again there wouldn't be a site if it didn't happen. I know I don't fit in here because I really don't give a rat's azz about COAL, head stamps, pressure, KISS, AIs, or a number of other things. I do agree 100% with those that say stick a good bullet in the right spot. It really is that simple.

Is anyone surprised at what gets posted by Don anymore?

No surprises here....

Fred: Bergman's Rule in reverse? As applied to rifle cartridges?....that's pretty funny!

Remember I said that....please.

The .257 Roberts has taken everything from deer, hogs, antelope & elk in my family over the years. It is the rifle 2 of my 3 girls have started their hunting with and the third is about a year away.

My 700 Mtn Rifle shoots 100 gr. Barnes around 2900 fps. It exited through on a 550 lb. + cow elk at about 150 yds. I think it will kill any deer that walks if the bullet is placed right. "Gut shot" is "Gut shot" whether from a .223 or a .458 Win Mag.

Here are some photos of the .257 exploits.





Here is the exit wound from that cow elk.

WOW, tell your daughter, I am SO JEALOUS of that brute of a HOG!

I have no complaints about my Remington 7600 or my Ruger MK II Ultralight. I don't roll my own and yes, a 243 would be a better choice. If one is willing to look around a bit, quite a bit of ammo can be found on line for the Roberts. Now I am just trying to get the funds to get a Kimber Montana.

Dale

C_Roy,

For a second I thought your kid was standing next to my ex-mother-in-law while she was sleeping. I used to rig up a similar outfit on the rafters in my garage so she could get a good night's sleep. I tried in on an oak tree out front, but the limb broke, the neighbors complained because their pets ran off, and damned animal control tried to stiff me for not having her licensed. She did scare off bats though. Last I heard she ran off to North Carolina with an orang pendek she met on e-agony.com for some inverted hardwoods slumber. Not even lumberjacks will jack timber where she's hanging 'round upside down. If you see her tell her to come back to California when she can't stay longer.

Wow! I feel really bummed now. I was thinking this BRNO in 257 Roberts would be a great rifle for Muleys/Blacktails up to about 300 yds, but after reading what Savage 99 says, I think I better dump it!! I will go back to my 250-3000, I know its a proven killer!

i use a 257 roberts for whitetail, never had a problem with it. i use handloads, 115gr nosler BTs

Kenster99, that BRNO is a very nice looking rifle!

To the OP. I have a Model 70 XTR in .257 Roberts. It was my first rifle, given to me by my father. It also took my first deer. Mine shoot 120 partitions into tight little groups. Not that you need a 120 grain partition for whitetail. I really love the cartridge and would recommend it to anyone. It's usually the rifle I use to introduce friends into centerfire rifles after they get used to a 22LR.

Shot a 185lbs. 8pt with my Remington 722 last year and watched him drop within 50yds.

I'm a fan of all quarter bores especially the 25-35, the 250-3000 and the 257 Roberts. Just picked up an Win. M70 XTR in the "Bob" recently. Plan to shoot 100 gr. TSXs in 257 +P loadings.

I'll get pics up in the next few days after I scope the rifle.

. My son is 3.5 yrs old and got his firs 257roberts at two. Kimber w/zeiss 2.5-8 6lbs 3ozs all up. I love when he says "dat my rifle".

Its a shame that they don't make a lever action in 257. Oh well, my 30-30 is still the BEST.

Sherwood

The .30 WCF does a fine job, no doubt about that. As a matter of fact, I keep a .257 Roberts AND a .30-30 around the house for deer hunting.

What kind of glass do you have on your Marlin there?

Actually Browning did make some BLR's in .257 Bob. I kick myself for letting one pass by in a gunshow and not buying it.

You hardly ever see a .257 Roberts over here, but 243s are like arses; every hunter seems to have one!

I really can't understand why the .243 became more popular than .257 Roberts for deer hunters..what ever the .243 does, the Roberts offers a liitle bit more, with no noticable increase in recoil..

Already shoot 250-3000s and 243s. So here's the .257 Roberts chambered in a Winchester Model 70 XTR wearing a Leupold II 4x12 just wasting away while waiting to get out to the range:



Nosler 100 grain E-tips and Sierra 90 grain Blitzkings will the used to work up appropriate loads for deer and varmints.

Good looking rifle. What Leupold? Let us know how it shoots.

It's hard to imagine how anyone could not like that cartridge.

While Ned Roberts was a fine Schuetzen rifleman and a good chuck hunter as well I have no interest in .25" rifles for hunting.

The bullets are too big and heavy to be ricochet resistant and too small to shoot big game with. It's just stunt shooting to shoot big game with small bullets.

Thus the .257 Roberts died out when riflemen discovered that it was best at nothing.

A buddy from long ago had a 722 chambered for the little .257R. He was poor and that cheap rifle was all he could afford. He was up at the camp in VT and hunting with us and some hunter walks by him in the woods and asks what he is shooting. When the hunter hears its a .257 he goes into why the 30-06 is superior in every way.

The expert finally leaves and a buck walks by my old buddy and he shoots it with the .257R.

The buck falls dead and the expert comes back down the hill to see what happened. My buddy begins to dress out the buck and the guts spill out and the expert throws up!

How do you reconcile saying that .25 bullets are too small for big game and a stunt at the beginning of the post only to follow it with the story about the effectiveness of the .257R?

Evidently you never read the Layne Simpson article about an East coast outfitter who kept detailed records on all his kills and those of his clients on whitetail deer. IIRC it covered around 400 kills, which probably isn't a large enough cohort for statistical relevance, but not a bad thesis.

From that study, the most effective rounds were .25 cal., based on kills and yardage traveled after the hit. And the .25R was one of the most common .25's in that study.

I sometimes think you're just shooting from the hip to get a rise out of everybody. If that's your game, then you're just a troll. If you're asking honest questions, then you need to drop back and regroup.

DF

Post up the article by Simpson and give us the name of that outfitter. I go by common sense that small bullets from weak cartridges make smaller wounds that result in less effective hunting.

As Mule Deer wrote small bullets don't kill as well.

""To everybody who has shared their experiences with TSX's, thanks very much. Most of the time they will kill deer-sized game very well, especially in larger diameters like 7mm and .30. I was specificaly addressing my experience with the .25 caliber 100-grain TSX--which is considerable, both in the .257 Roberts and .257 Weatherby."

Savage99,

Somebody recently posted on the Campfire that you're the second coming of Swampman700. After this post I suspect you might be even 1) dumber, or 2) more of a troll.

How can you come to THAT conclusion from my statement? It's completely of context, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with whether .25 caliber cartridges are adequate for deer.

In my experience .25's are fine deer rounds since (as I probably posted before on this thread) my wife and I have killed dozens of deer (and pronghorns) with various .25's (though mostly the .257 Roberts), including some big bucks, both whitetail and mule deer. Never a problem with any of the animals, with any bullet--EXCEPT a couple TSX's that didn't expand.

To paraphrase my friend Phil Shoemaker, anybody who insists .25 caliber rifles aren't plenty for deer is unknowingly commenting on his own marksmanship.

What a joke -

How well do you like your bullets to kill exactly?

John,

I am disappointed in you that you have lost the argument about common sense and and used insults and name calling.

That proves that you have lost.

You wrote:

Most of the time they will kill deer-sized game very well, especially in larger diameters like 7mm and .30.

The above quote from you means to me that you, like myself, have found that larger bullets going as fast or faster kill game better than small bullets.

You have lost your mind for sure -

rather than mince words you would do well to read Simpson's article.

generally do not read his stuff but did this one and was a bit surprised, but I imagine guys who kill game with them already know that...

The above quote from you means to me that you, like myself, have found that larger bullets going as fast or faster kill game better than small bullets.


Genius...

Me? I'm going to the range to try some new loads with this .257 to see how the rifle shoots with a free floated barrel and a trigger adjusted down to two pounds.


[Necked down 7mm Mausers and necked up 250-3000s are still fun rifle to shoot and no deer have ever complained about my shooting no how. (I wonder how 140 grain Hornady MonoFlex bullets designed for 30-30s or 303 Savage lever guns will shoot out of a 300 Savage?)]

Thanks for the input JB.

You're evidently what Dean Wormer might have called s double-secret nitwit--except you didn't keep it a secret.

Good one, John.


The Layne Simpson article, titled, "493 Dead Deer, Which Calibers and Bullets are the Best?" starts on page 64, Petersen Publications' Hunting Magazine, Oct, 2011.

I don't have a link, but I saved the magazine. I'm offering to send photocopies of this article to whomever wants one. Just send me a PM.

DF

Now don't go bringing evidence and common sense into this... Or Sav99'll have to repeat his stupidity over again!

Damn John, coffee everywhere! Laffin here. Bear

If he, like most of us, is looking for information and likes that info based on facts, this article is a nicely done piece with some data, not conclusive evidence, but at least a fairly educated opinion on the best Whitetail rounds and bullets based on one man's documented observations and experience.

If he's just stirring crap, as is all too often the case on the Fire, then he needs to get an even bigger boat paddle and stir away...

But, too much of that kinda activity and one's credibility goes the way of Larry Root and Swampy. I don't think Sav99 wants to be mentioned in that vein or added to that list...

DF

edited to add "bigger" to boat paddle. Had left it out.

I think if I'm able to get to camp this year I'm really going to handicap myself. I'll use my Remington 700 Classic in 250 Savage and Leupold M8 6x36. Maybe I'll back off the usual 100 grain bullets and use the 87 grain Speer Hot Cor.

Anybody think I'm worried?

Better take your skinning knives...

DF

No. I never am with that bullet.

I have two .257 Bobs. The first is a Ruger #1B I found at a gun show. (Mule Deer is absolutely right. That damn thing is way too heavy.) The gun came with 5 boxes of 100 gr. Norma ammo and as the price was right, I bought it. Nice Leupold 3x9 on it and the guy said it was sighted in. I took it to the range a slow fired 5 rounds. It was a bit over 100 degrees that day so I really did take my time shooting the rifle. You could cover all 5 shots with a nickle. I'm hoarding hat ammo for that rifle.
The second rifle was an NIB Winchester M70 Featherweight. I got it more or less because it would match my 7x57 Featherweight. Been way too busy to do much witht hat rifle but have worked up two loads so far, one with the 100 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter anf the other with the 100 gr. Barnes TSX. I'll have to play with seating depth I guess as both loads only do 1.25" at 100 yards. My wife appropriated my M70 in .243 that was made in 1969 according to the sn#. She handled the .257 and I'm afraid if she shoots it I'm gonna lose that one as well. I have been seriously thinking of using it if I draw a deer tag this year but based on past results, I'm not holding my breath.

Paul B.

Im suprised Ruger never chambered the M77V in 257 Roberts.

The only .257 Roberts I have is built on a WWII Mauser 98 action. I has served me very well hunting in South carolina. Always seems to deliver 1 shot kills when I use the 100gr Triple Shock!!

So far, only one request for the Layne Simpson article. I'll be happy to send out more, just send me a PM.

BTW, the outfitter was Howard Simmons from SC and the data covers a 20 year span.

One correction. I stated that in the .25 cal. category, the .257R was a major player. When I re-read the article, the breakdown of .25 caliber rounds wasn't specified. The .257R was included, but I can't say to what percent among .25's. I was writing from memory, so wanted to correct any perception that wan't actually specified in the article.

Another point from the article, soft bullets performed better on Whitetails than harder, premium bullets. Deer hit with soft bullets traveled an av. of 26.9 yds, those hit with hard bullets traveled an av. of 43.5 yds. Hard bullets have their place. For Whitetail hunting, they may not be the best choice.

DF

I agree. I have that article... a buddy of mine who is not, despite my best efforts, a loonie called me after he read it wanting to know what it'd run to get a 257 Roberts built. He has a nicely sporterized BRNO in 8x57 so we went through the steps/cost and he decided to keep to a factory rifle, but didn't go there when I told him about the cost of new Rugers, etc.

He is close though...

I teased him with a run down on my 9 yo son's $195 Bob that I'm in the process of building "campfire style" through classifieds and he got rather riled up... getting closer... I teased him that while Samuel and I were in camp enjoying fire roasted Bob-shot tenderloins he'd be chasing his 8mm-shot buck all over the country ...

Great article indeed and empirical data galore. I'm certain Sav99 won't care to have it cuz it doesn't support his position and my observation of him in multiple threads like this (and the reason I now have him on ignore) is that he doesn't care for facts one bit... if they don't support his conclusions, that is.

Been using one off/on now for about 10 years. Works great for deer/antelope.

I'm impressed that Hayward Simmons took the time to postmortem examine the wounds and the bullets, when available, and record the details of the shot, including how far the deer was when hit, how far it traveled after being hit, if not DRT.

And to tabulate and keep up with that data for 20 years is a real treasure. I'm glad Layne Simpson knew Hayward Simmons and took the time to write the article.

So many opinions in this business are anecdotal and not from reproducible data. This approach by Mr. Simmons is a breath of fresh air. This data just gives trends, as statistically valid conclusions require a much larger cohort (sample number), when observed differences are subtle and the hypothesis is loaded with confounding variables.

Stated another way, with multiple similar calibers and similar bullets used on game with different angled shots, some in bone, others not, variables are running wild. It would take a huge sampling of such events to establish hard statistical evidence. An association is much easier to establish than causation, because it requires a much lower burden of proof. Trends and associations are all we're going to get from this scenario and we're fortunate to have them.

DF

One of the better reports was compiled in Sweden on over 8000 moose. I have the results somewhere, but as I recall the cartridge, range, number of shots, and how far the animal traveled were recorded. Don't remember if anything was recorded about the bullets except maybe weight.

Anyway, it turned out there wasn't all that much difference in average results between the 6.5x55 and the .375 H&H! This always tends to piss some people off, but it was a pretty good sample!

The 257 Roberts died out because it's best at nothing. Too big for varmints and too small for big game.

For the woods I always favored the .358 Win in a Featherweight. They weigh less than the .257R's that they made then. The larger round just suits that hunting in my view.

Then when the ranges get longer the little .257R does not have the stuff like the larger rounds do. To each his own on this however.

The 99F in the picture is a .358. Thats why I don't own or want a .257R. Too weak and heavy for the woods and too weak for the open.

It may be the best at getting you to repetitively type the same BS.

and the only things that are weak are your logic and your debating skills

That is actually a post already put up... if not in THIS thread, in one in the past.

One has to wonder what the 358 Win is best at?

I'd like a 358 Win personally, but it sure seems like a "pot... meet kettle" kind of situation here.

I do think even discussing anything with him is like talking w/ my mother in law.

Believe me, there ain't no diss bigger than that, as eloquent as JB may be.

Assuming that was meant as a reply to Sav99 and not mathman?

It would fit Sav99 to a "T", wouldn't fit mathman at all...

IMHO,

DF

yes, it was meant as a reply to sav99, sorry for the confusion. I would never attempt to engage mathman in a debate!

Whiskey and Ice...its a no-win debate with him...


Poor guy doesn't know what hes missing...

please tell me you're not implying that sav99 "debates"?!?!?!

More like .... What a dolt!



.

He's prolly say it's just adequate as controlled round feed would be it's only saving grace.

Nice rifle, BTW.

.

Boy, and all these years I thought it was the 243 Win killed that 257 Roberts. I guess I didn't realize that the Roberts was good for nothing.

257 Rob redux. ....

I have acquired a very cool Lipsey"s Ruger #1a, 257 Roberts. Installed a Hicks accurizer and free floated the forend, and with Nosler brass, 100 gr Nosler BT bullets, and Big Game powder, it"s an inch shooter. Chrono velocity is 3100 fps. This rifle, all up, is right at 8 lbs, and is an absolute joy to shoot. I cannot wait to go forth and slay whitetails with it!

That's a beauty.

You miss read my post. I wrote that the 257R is best at nothing. That means that while it's a good cartridge and functional like many others that it's not superior at any particular task.

The 243 is in the same group in a way. It's small for big game and good for pests and target shooting. The 257R never got off the ground because it came out before good bullets were available thus it was not all that accurate.

Around 1950 Sierra adopted the sizing up principle of bullet making which made all cartridges more accurate.

Once again ipeccable logic, if the Roberts didn't get off the ground because good bullets were not available until 1960. How did the 30-06, 270, 300H&H, 7x57, etc. "get off the ground"?

Secondly, what is "weak" about a 120gr bullet at over 2900fps? Most factory 130gr 22" 270's have a MV of about that. No deer can tell the difference between a 130gr Partition launched at 3000ish fps and a 120gr Partition launched at 2950ish fps. So the 270 must be "weak", too?

The accuracy demands of the larger game cartridges were not as great. The Roberts was touted as a varmint cartridge as well and its the greater demand for that accuracy where the bullets were not up to it.

And then it falls into the area of too big for chucks and too small for big game.

If a hunter can shoot a real big game cartridge who is he showing off to when he says: "All you need is a Roberts."

So the 220 Swift, 218 Bee and 219 Zipper had access to magic bullets from outer space that were more accurate than 25 caliber bullets?

Give it up sav. You're already in a hole, stop digging

Those rounds had the same accuracy problems. What they did not suffer was being too big for chucks and too small for game.

Sort of in the middle if you understand.

"Best at nothing!"

Just thought I heard Swampy say something...

DF

The .257 Roberts is perfectly suited for and quite adequate when killing any of the North American deer (the two mule deer sub-species, the two whitetail deer sub-species, the two blacktail deer sub-species), all the North American sheep species, pronghorn antelope, black bear, wolf, etc, etc, etc. It's a fine caliber and it has proven itself on those species, time and again.

Ironic.....it's like you.

I believe I may just fall into a swoon now that I've come to find out my beloved 257 Roberts is "best at nothing". Can it be that all those 120 grain Speers that mine delivered so accurately and lethally to a dozen or so mule deer was a misinterpretation of the evidence on my part? All this time I believed the Roberts delivered those deer up to my table with a finality second to none. I am a die hard lefty with many left handed rifles but my 257 Roberts is one of the few right handed bolts I am not likely to get rid of, unless of course a nice lefty Bob shows up someday.

Mart

Wait... He does have "best at being ignore-worthy"?

Sadly, there are others that are more deserving. IMO.

Yeah, sorta in the middle. As in: Not too big, not too small, but "Just right".

You keep repeating the same mantra "too weak for game", "too weak for game" without any facts or basis, in hopes that if you repeat it enough folks will believe it (you must be a Democrat).

Your problem is, there are many on this forum who have much more real world experience witht the cartridge that you condemn than you. So you can't blow your smoke up our rears.

You have conveniently never answered the question: Why is a 120gr bullet at 2900ish weak, while a 130gr bullet at 3000ish is not? do you also contend that the 260Rem, the 6.5x55, 6.5x57, 7-08, and other cartridges which launch similar weight bullets at similar velocites are "too weak for game"?

One more question. I recall a while back, one of your denegrations of the Roberts was something to the effect that it obviously is no good, because it has never been a hugh commercial success, and "the market has spoken". But now you are touting that enormously successful 358Win??? Can you even see the weaknesses in your logic?

I finally decided he's a troll and put him on ignore.

I never used to put anybody on ignore, but in the past year or so have probably done it half-a-dozen times. I found it's a very easy way to tell if a thread is worth reading: If ***You are ignoring this user*** pops up frequently I know it's not!

Yeah, you're probably right. I used to think that he was a pretty nice old gentleman, just a little quirky.

But recently, he's either lost it entirely, or as you say, he's just a troll trying to stirr the pot. (Which he has done successfully )

He's making Swampy look not so bad.

He's still leagues ahead of Larry Root, who IMHO is the worst of the worst...

DF

One one hand a cartridge can be 'good' and still not be a commercial success. Thus saying that about the 257R or the 358W is just a dig at the rounds. They work and make somebody happy.

I still think the .358W is cool as a woods cartridge for the way I use it. The rifle can be a Featherweight and the round about optimum for smaller big game in the woods. Others call their 257R "The Bob" and say they love it! So it goes, we all have favorites.

As to the 257R on deer I feel that one could use a more powerful round. Of course there is some tiny person somewhere who can't shoot a deer without one or someone else who can't afford a second gun.

At least it's legal for deer in most places. It is way ahead of the .22 deer guns on that.

I just got back from hunting today. It's kind of hot out here at 86F. I saw two turkeys but no chucks. I brought a favorite 30-06 along loaded with 155 VLD's for coyotes and a .17HMR for shots where noise would matter. A 257R would have been fine as well. It's just that I have had a 243 since 1957 and I have no want for a 257R.

I've heard it said, if one finds himself in a hole, QUIT DIGGING!

DF

If I found a rifle that I really liked chambered for the 257R I might buy it for the rifle.

I just got a nice rifle chambered for the .300 Win. Mag. which I don't like or need. I thought about changing the barrel but then I would just spend money for another gun I don't really need and it's a belted head size. At least a 257R would not kick. Don't know what I would use it for however. It would be ok for coyotes............

Yep

Ahh, the internet..... The only place individuals like Savage 99 can become an expert on the 257 Roberts without ever owning or firing one. After nearly 40 years of shooting and hunting with at least a half-dozen different 257's, my conclusions about this great cartridge are the direct opposite of his on all counts.

His conclusions about the 257 seem to parallel the same logic Lee J. Hoots used with the .270 not being enough cartridge for a mule deer..... only Hoots shot a 270 before spewing....

I had something like 15 boxes of those for sale in the classifieds about a month ago...

I really like my Mauser in 257 Roberts and have killed quite a few deer with it. Every one I have shot with it died very quickly.

very nice!

Notropis,

Beautiful rifle!

Amazing how a "useless and obsolete" cartridge kills deer.

It has a handsome stock. The figure is superb. The barrel looks like SS and a little heavy.

To me the 257R would be a coyote gun. Like my other game chambers it has too much bullet for chucks and I can shoot more gun at game. I am going hunting in an hour or so. My latest pet is a custom in 300 Win. Mag. Now that's really too much gun for here. Nice rifle however. Kind of wish it were a 257 R. in a way. On the other hand it does have more range.

I looked for factory ammo and all that WW listed was the 117gr?

Its just another cartridge that did not catch on. Otherwise it's the favorite of some and that's good.

Here is a nice one in a Brno 22.



Link

Look a little harder. Midway lists factory ammo from Winchester, Remington, Federal, Doubletap, Horandy, Norma, and HSM. Pertty hard to find, though. Had to go to Midwayusa.com, and click on ammunition.

I'm gonna get fired for looking at porn if pics like this one keep getting posted...

Never shot a whitetail with one but mine was a wonderful muley gun. Wish I had it back...it was a pf Winchester 70 Featherweight. The one I had was a bit picky on bullets but once I pushed heavy loads of 4350 with 117-120 gr. bullets it did just fine.

I haven't been without a Roberts-chambered rifle in over 30 years. First high-power rifle purchase was when I was in high school - a push-feed M70 Fwt. Traded that for a Rem 700 Classic and it progressed from there. I can honestly say it was my first and it will definitely be my last. When I start whittling down, the Roberts will remain. Not sure which rifle it will be....but the Roberts will remain.

My 9 yo son is excited to be receiving his first deer rifle... a 'campfire special' in 257 Roberts on a Turkish mauser action w/ an Apex take-off.

His oldest sister's boyfriend, a gifted artist, is helping him design a stencil for his rattle-canned (temporary) tupperware stock. Once he is full grown we'll get him a custom walnut stock, having made a few refinements along the way.

Can't wait to see my boy take down his first deer with HIS rifle... I have a feeling he'll take many, many heads of game with it.

I can't imagine it not being anything but ideal for WT seeing that my Savage 99, 250-3000 smacks the piss out of them. That with a 87 gr hot cor. I also owned a 25-06 that was wicked on deer. Many a fine cartridge is out there that just didn't win the popularity contest due to poor or no representation by some big name blow hard. It will do anything a 243 will do and will just about duplicate a 6.5 Swede.

Please allow me to tell a quick story and make a suggestion.

When my son took his first whitetail with a Ruger 77mkII Ultralight, it was chambered for the .257 Roberts. After the whooping and celebrating was done, and he had put his hands on his deer, I asked him if he had a knife on him. His little 8 year old eyes looked sheepish, when he had to reply in the negative.

I sat down on the ground beside him and that big old doe, then produced the small boker fixed blade that I had purchased for him. I told him that I couldn't give it to him and asked if he had any money. All he had was the penny I had given him for luck when we left to go hunting that morning. I took his penny and gave him that little knife, explaining that my Grandfather had taught me never to give or accept a knife from a friend. That I should always "buy" or "sell" with the purchase price of a coin.

I got the hug I was looking for, and then borrowed his knife to show him how to dress his deer. He's finally doing his own now, but I'd do another if I could go back to that hunt.

If you got him a .257 to hunt deer with, you would do well to make sure he has a knife, because he'll be needing it.

CT great idea; thanks for that! I'll do the "suprise" thing, too.

I inherited my great grandmother's 722 in 257R. She killed a huge muley with it back in the good ol' days. When II was 14a I harvested my largest blacktail with that gun with 240 yard shot to the boiler room. I also killed my first buck with an old 30-30 that my grandfather handed down to my dad. Hopefully someday I can hand those rifles down to my kids.

Great story! I'm going to be stealing that with my boys!

MADMAX,

I inherited my grandmother's 722 .257. She was mostly a meat hunter, so mostly shot deer, though did take one cow elk with the rifle, using the standard Remington factory load with a 117-grain roundnose at 2650 fps.

It's taken the first big game animal for several people in our family, and in my hands has taken a bunch of pronghorns, whitetails and mule deer, including a big buck muley. Oh, and a pile of chucks out to 500-600 yards.

You know, Ingwe would consider it sacriledge to shoot a pile of chucks with anything that doesn't have "AI" after the numbers...

I bought one in 257 Roberts and 257 AI the same day from John Smith at the old Nashville gun show.

Shot both to fireform brass, and work up a "hunting" load.

I loaned it to friends, but in 20 years I never carried it into the woods.

Dang, shoulda shot a deer with it so I had an opinion to grumble over.

I,m really like to shoot my 257R model 70. Also have a
Remington 760 in the safe in 257R. Got 3 boxes of shell
with the model 70 when I bought it one was a box of
100 winchester silver tips, ran the them thru my cronogragh
and got 2944FPS. May still have part of the box. Box
said 1951 same year as the rifle. How do you tell what
year a Remington 760 was made?

Bought mine in 1987/8, sweet shooting lil A-Bolt ...

Sierra 117gr., Sierra 100gr., Nosler 100gr. all equal bang flop..

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/questions/barrelcodes

Bottom line on the 257Bob as is the same for all 6mm,and all 25 Cal. Use an adequate big game bullet, do your part and it WILL do theirs [bleep] Period. Every time, all the time. It's not the cartridge that's inadequate, it's the [bleep] idiot jerking the trigger.

Since I have been shooting my new Ruger #1 in 257 Roberts, ifind myself sincerely wishing it would have been in consideration for my older son while he was in his teens.
Since he is a lefty, the choices were limited.
Instead, I started him with a Savage 110 LH '06, which had more recoil than he could shoot accurately.
He has since become a great rifle shot, but I'm guessing it could have been so much easier.