Gents:

Truthfully, not intending to start a cartridge or killing power [bleep]...

Do any of you that use a 7x57 or 7-08 notice any difference in killing deer(s) with the same 140g bullet at 300-500 yards compared to 50-200 yards?

Assuming a mortal non-shoulderbone heart or both lungs wound--do you think they stay on their feet any longer?

Have always reached for a seven on the 06 or mag case in more open country than the Great Lakes woods and am kinda curious. One particular farm has neighbors who won't tolerate a carcass look-see which is egging on the wondering.

My own guesstimate, is that adding velocity represented by the larger cases probably doesn't decrease a significant amount of critter uptime from bullet expansion in said wound...though I think it may tend to give you a little more indication to the hit in way of the deer's reaction.

So Gents no thoughts?

Which is it--the yardage too far or do you use different bullet weights for long & short?

I think they are too close to call.....

Gents my apologies. My daughter just read the op and said I was unclear. Actually she said "damn confusing".

The comparison I was trying to make was between the choice of the smaller cases (7x57/7-08) and the larger sevens at those 300-500 yd ranges, assuming a no-bone lung/heart hit with the 140g.

I passed on a huge whitetail (170ish and maybe more) early on in season this year as he appeared on a hillside a few feet from being on the neighbors property. The neighbors are downhill.

Then I had lots and lots of time to sit and think about that particular hillside ...

Lasered it varies from 300-500. Do you think the higher velocity of the larger sevens would reduce critter uptime on the same organ hit with the same bullet at those ranges or is it too close to call?

I think if they are runners, probably not---but considering the stable, don't know if I want to think that...:)

I only have a sample of one. My daughter shot a large-bodied mule deer buck at a little over 380 yards with a 120 BT from her 7mm-08. The deer was hit through the lungs, just behind the shoulder about mid-way between the back and the brisket. It did not drop at the shot, but rather walked about 15-20 yards and laid down under a shrub.

We approached to within about 40 yards and I told her to shoot it in the neck because I did not want it to get up and start running. The first shot was fatal. The upper lobes of the lungs were shredded and the bullet was lodged under the skin on the off side. The bullet did not as expand as widely as those from deer shot at 200 yards or less, but did its job. Unfortunately, she took the bullet home with her before I had a chance to weigh it.

i shot a 12 pointer at 279 yds with a youth load 7-08 120 nbt 2725 fps mel vel buck dressed 169 lbs dropped in tracks punched high shoulders

Figure out what makes your neighbors turds? Appease them.

If diplomacy doesn't work:

Put a stand on that hillside and de-scent well. Then shoulder shoot that 170 buck through the at 50 yards.

String the entrails on the fence with a sign that says GFY.

I got it made; my azzbag neighbor can't shoot well, so when he wounds one and it staggers over the line I kill and eat it.

I've used the 7X57, which ballistically is just like the 7-08 with 140 gr. bullets, as well as the .280 and a couple of 7mm magnums. I've killed stuff between 300 and 500 yds. with all of them alot more than once or twice.
Short answer to your question, nothing will stop a buck reliably a few feet from a fence unless it's a CNS hit. Sometimes a good lung hit, especially near the top of the heart puts them right down, but often not. Doesn't matter what you are using that far out. Now, if you can shatter a shoulder going in, say a angling toward you shot, that usually puts them down. Sometimes a hit that takes out a far shoulder will, but not always. The trouble is that these are small areas to hit. I can't depend on my shooting out past 300 yds to make more than a lung shot. Past 400 yds. no matter what I'm shooting, I can't even depend on that.
FWIW, the 140 gr. Nosler Partitions expand at those ranges even shot at 7X57 velocities. E

If I had to be assured of dropping one on the spot at those ranges I'd think hard about running Bergers and being good enough, and having accurate enough/specialized enough equipment, to pinpoint my shot.

Gents, I had a 7RM in my hands....I wouldn't expect to drop them on the spot...at any range. If he was back a bit from the border I certainly would have shot.

Have hunted midwest farm with a 7x57 as well, but not that particular spot because all the shots are relatively pretty long and up to this point have just gone with a faster round for the trajectory.

Up to 200 I like a a 7mm-08. Up to 400 I like my 7mmSAUM. UP TO 600 the 7RM. Beyond 600 I like my Swarovski spotting scope.

My observations have been that the faster cartridges expand hunting weight bullets like the 140 gr somewhat more completely at 300 yards and beyond,than those starting at 2800 fps or so.I am talking across the board and at velocities from say 3000-3200 or 3300 fps.

Another factor that assist the expansion of tougher jacketed hunting bullets is faster twist,in addition to the added velocity.

I had a particular lightweight 7 RM back in the 80's that I used a lot out west,and among its loads were 140 Bitterroots and Partitions.At the same time I was hunting with 270's and 280's with Bitterroots as well.They all worked fine, but I noticed that once distances edged past the 300 yard mark, the bullets from the 7RM expanded more fully and to a wider frontal area with roughly equivilent hits,and I attributed this to the increased velocity and faster rpm's of the bigger case.

I have seen the same correlation hold true with 165 Bitterroots fired from a 30/06 at 2900 fps as against those started from a 300 Win Mag at 3250 fps.

From the standard cases, it was not uncommon to get "enough" expansion that they opened, and killed quickly enougheven at the 400 yard mark and on light stuff like antelope, but would frequently exit,indicating smaller frontal area.Yet it was not uncommon to find the bullets fired from the faster cartridge stopped on the off hide,widely expanded.Saw it happen quite a few times at 300-400 yards.

That said one good sized buck I saw killed by a companion was on a mountainside at 350-375 yards,and had his legs jerked out by a 140 Nosler Solid base fired from a 7x57 at 2850 fps.

How fast will they kill? That varies, animal to animal,situation to situation.....I tend to hunt with somewhat tougher bullets,and when confronted with the kind of shot the OP had,if possible,I would have looked to angle into bone if possible...my observations have been that results are a bit more dramatic and decisive at distance if shots are angled though bones and vitals either coming or going,and this has been true whether it was deer sized animals or elk sized.

I'm with you on the Swaro spotter, they do get pretty tiny out there...the 15x56 Minox on a tripod have also tempted me...

I suppose the obvious is to use a more frangible bullet with the smaller cases for the longer shots...:)

I shot 2 antelope doe standing side by side at just shy of 600 yards in Wyoming a couple years ago with my 7X57 and 140gr Accubonds. Both dropped at the shot and both bullets exited. Doesn't get much better than that!

I think it depends on how well your rifle can shoot at those ranges. Those distances are really not long so I see no issues with either cartridge being able to make a one shot kill.

If you need to stop a deer right now just shoot to break down the shoulders. Very high chance they drop right there.

For pure hitting and killing ability 500 yards is well under the max range of either the 7/08 or 7x57. The bigger 7mm's will on average produce bigger wound channels at longer ranges, however I have not found a bullet for them that will reliably produce DRT's without CNS shots. Most will say that there is no way to gaurantee DRT's with just lung hits and while that is technically true, the 30cal 178gr AMAX when started at 3,000fps or better has produced around a 95% DRT with pure soft tissue hits on a couple hundred deer out to 860 yards.

I have no issue with just about any 308win based cartridge for deer out to 500 yards with the right bullet, but when I want to be sure of the animal simply folding at the shot I use a 300Win Mag and 178gr Amax's.

Hey Huntr...did you drill them thru the lungs?

The Amax and the Bergers do look interesting--appreciate the info, Gents.

For the record, I would not have pulled the trigger on that buck regardless on what kind of DRT likelihood I had in my hands. The neighbor's is a leased piece with an out of state owner and I had a lot of season left to enjoy. Disputes suck.

It did set me to wondering as my daughter still hunts with me when she can get time off, has a vocal preference for heart shots & shoots a 7-08 w/a fixed 6x for everything...not much left for negotiation...:)

Bobin, you know that's not fair, the Nosler 'Solid Base' was a 'Secret Weapon' and they had to axe that program

300-500 yds? Hard to get a great sampling of data when 95-99% of game is shot <300, if not 200 yds, IMO.

Same shot placement, similar speed/weight and same bullet = dead game. Anything of standard weight, speed, and 'game bullet' of decent construction leaves all the debate up to the shooters skill in shot placement. That said, the less recoil, the more I enjoy and better I shoot (not shy to say it ).

Give me my 260, a good rest, and plenty of deer out to 600 yds...let's see what happens

65: That Nosler Solid Base happened to be what was in the gun...it worked purty good that day That buck was erased.

I don't have any doubts about 7/08's and 7x57's at 300-500 yards but have not used either to those distances...under 300 is all.

I also agree with Formid that 300 magnums are capable of a big mess,and while I have not used bullets as soft as an SST from them,I have seen things pretty ground up with tougher bullets.

I am one of those wierdo's who recognize 30 magnums as more potent but shoot a 7mm Magnum anyway...I am more fragile than I used to be.

I've shot several "deer-sized" animals (including deer of more than one species) at between 300 and 400 yards with the 7x57 and various bullets from 140-160 grains. It always worked, but killed quicker with softer bullets like the Ballistic Tip and Sierra GameKing.

JB: Expansion!

I believe I have the world's largest supply of the discontinued 7mm 140g Solid Base bullets but only use them in faster sevens due to what I have read on the internet...:)

JB, have been shooting BTs in an AI and a 7RM lately...haven't recovered any yet...

tom,, my Charles Daly Firearms chambered in 280, was on a hunting trip in ky a few yrs ago,, a friend who is an extremely good shot spotted a large doe across the ridge 1/2 up the next mountain , he kept trying to give me the zero on this deer and i just could find it or see /spot it ,, after a few seconds i handed him the rifle said "fill out my tag please!" he aimed and shot the deer at 325 yards and that was the 1st time i saw the deer as it rolled down the hill 30yards stoned dead,, WE WERE USING Winchester Supreme Ammunition 280 Remington 140 Grain Ballistic Silvertip,, AS FOR ME I WOULDNT HAVE TAKEN THIS SHOT EVEN IF I SEEN THE DEER 325 IS TOO FAR FOR MY EYES,, he hit it were he said he was aiming middle of the lung area,, ,, he also offered to buy that rifle any time i was getting rid of it, a standing offer,, also before this topic comes up,, my friend was hunting and guideing for me the entire time , i was only wanting to get some meat, fill my tag,, and spend some time with him the person who took the shot was not important to me,, if you asked him about this he would say i dont rememebr the details of the hunt only the time spent,, and this was OUR DEAL!

IIRC wildlife violations don't have a statute of limitations. Just saying...

Can you expand upon this? I mean expound? Lol.

I was implying earlier, that the SB was a great bullet from Noz, loved the 120s in my 7TCU handguns in college.

JB not surprised, the harder bullets may be desired on tough angles, or to help odds of an exit hole, but long felt the 'shock effect' of an expanding bullet favored the softer side of the pendulum for deer bullets, which I feel is why many get lightning fast kills say using an 85 BTHP SGK in a 243, though personally all around I prefer the thicker jacketed 95 BT and feel it will expand further than a Barnes. No dout an 80-85 Barnes often launched at 3100-3300+ is bad Juju on deer, till they peter out and expansion is minimal.

I felt in the past that a small bore benefits well when used on deer, from increased frontal area of 'softer bullets' - again talking game bullets, not those acting as varminting grenades which might give shallow wounds on larger game.

Tomk, are those BT that you don't recover that 'explosive' or simply the residual sails on thru? Prob the latter.

65: Sure! But you already know the answer.

Those bullets JB mentioned are just thin jacketed,and expand a bit better at distance from moderate velocity cartridges like the 7/08 and 7x57 at 300-400 yards than something "tougher";likely set up a bit more frontal area sooner after impact,etc.i think JB is right on shots like that.

Years back I worried about a bit about using tough bullets on lighter game...but one day I was returning to the ranch with my friends wife after dropping off meat for processing in Medicine Bow.....she had an unfilled antelope tag and we saw a good buck,but the only rifle was my 270 and 130 Bitterroots.

We did a quick crawl and got within about 375 yards....I told her what to do and she planted one a third up the chest;the buck danced in a litte semi circle for about 30 feet and collapsed.Expansion was not dramatic but it was clearly "there" and the bullet punched a nickel sized exit.

That little Bitterroot might not make as perfect an antelope bullet as a BT;but I'll bet its' a better elk bullet,.....and it was "good enough" that day for antelope as well.

We all know the problem,and it's an old one....you gotta get expansion at distance,but you need a certain level of bullet integrity at close range where impact velocity is high so that you still get good penetration;and the faster a cartridge you use,the more you have to hedge the close range stuff IMHO....or so it would seem.This calls for some bullet structure compromises along the way.

Personally I always hedged the close shots because IME the overwhelming majority of game I've shot and seen shot has been in the WAY under 500 yard mark...(I'd sing a different tune if I spent all my time looking for shots beyond 500-600 yards).But if you spend much time on these forums, you'd never guess it.I think it's because the LR shooters tend to be very vocal and folks are enchanted with LR shooting.

Hey 6.5
The NBT have exited on all the broadside shots shots I have taken with them--I wouldn't hesitate to use them on larger game particularly in the 7-08...but have more bullet styles on hand than applications.

That said, am going to give the Berger 140g Hunting VLDs a spin in my 7x57 this winter to see how they shoot for next season

Projectile placement trumps all, even with a stick & string.

Saw a big Elk bull dropped with one shot at 750 yards with a 105 gr bullet from a 243 Winchester. How much ballistic push do you reckon that bullet was packing at that distance? Not much, I'm sure.

Projectile placement trumps all.

Agreed Reloader. That was an assumption in my original question.

7mm 08 x 500 yards + Berger VLD = dead[whatever]

I love my 7x57, It's the one I use 80% of the time. I think it 'runs out' about where my ability does. That's not much further than 300yds. Although, I use my 280, with a heavy sporter 26" barrel if I think shots might exceede 200yds or so. capt david

Hi tomk,

I have shot deer at very long range. Now when I see em I figure out a way to close the distance.

To answer your question, I am sure either will work; however, with the 7X57, you'll probably have to hand load. I have a circa 1954 NRA hand loader's manual in which 7x57 loads are listed. It is a formidable cartridge if you carefully work up loads.


Best of luck,

L