What do you say? 150 for 150? Or higher like a 160-170 mule deer? Interested to hear thoughts on this.

I'd estimate the differences using the B&C minimums for each category. WT is 170, MD is 190. That ratio between those two is 0.894. So a 150" WT equates to a 167" MD.

seems logical.

makes a guy wonder why so many people out after a "trophy" mule deer shoot em when they are 120-130 inches....

I suspect its in the eye of the beholder and the geography of said person relative to their opportunities at each species of that size -

I'd rather smoke a 150" WTD than a 167" MD any day and I'd rather smoke a 100" coues deer over both -

My personal equivalence as I get this question a lot is a 160" WTD is equivalent to a 180" MD and a 100" coues deer as context for people as they decide if they want to shoot a 95" coues deer...grin...

Agreed. Not easy to shoot either one.

Never shot a Coues so can't say.But I bet shooting a 100" Coues isn't easy to do.

I would say a 150 class whitetail is the equivalent of mid 170's mule deer.

Just for purposes of perspective.

Pure Blasphemy......!

Thanks for the input. Gotta find that 170+ mule deer now.

Grin....

Greg - OK, I liked where you were headed with that, then things took a turn south.

As to Colorado question "why smaller deer are shot", for me the first MD buck I had a chance at was relatively small by MD standards but after years of hunting Whitetails, he looked like a monster…but wasn't! Still glad I got him, though.

A local friend originally from Pennsylvania spent his first decade in Montana shooting the first "rack" whitetail he saw, and thinking he was in heaven. Eventually he decided to start hunting mule deer, and recruited me to help. I had to threaten to take away his .270 ammo the first day we hunted the Missouri Breaks, because anything 120-point buck was in serious danger. We eventually found him a good buck for public land, with about a 24" spread and probably scoring 165-170. He was thrilled, and these days that's often about the top end for a lot of public plains country, just like a 150 whitetail is in the public mountains of western Montana.

He's taken bigger bucks since, including some very nice whitetails and a 180+ mule deer, though the muley was on a ranch, not on public land. But we still joke about the day I threatened to take away his ammo!

leadminer,
If you do a bit of traveling to hunt in other states (or provinces) - this is known to many locals and outfitters as "the Wisconsin trigger". When I first heard of it, I thought the guy was putting me on - but a couple states and provinces later, it's pretty much been solidified as real. And it applies to both mule deer and whitetails.

Size standards are relative to where you are.

Mature, older bucks are what does it for me. High scoring bucks are a bonus, but age to me is the most important element when I hunt either whitetail, or mule deer.

As far as comparing them head to head, a mule deer needs about 20" more to equal a whitetail as far as trophy quality. A typical 160" whitetail will receive the same "wow" factor as a 180" typical mule deer buck.....from me anyway. FWIW, personally I'll shoot the mule deer buck every time, if they were standing side by side. But that's only my preference.....grin! Sorry Scott!

the problem is when guys come from other states and bring their "local standards" with them.

I think that's true. Gets a lot of young mule deer killed. The problem is really acute in Saskatchewan.

No need to apologize. *grins*
And, I'm with you on the age thing. I only worry about scores on Sunday (and the occasional Thursday and Monday) for 16 weeks in the fall.

I'd shoot the 180" mule deer first too over the 160" WTD, after I shoot the 100" coues deer...grin...

There's only one way to resolve this....a guy has to go shoot all three.

I have "one" to go.

I like your reference. I"ve always wondered why it has to be a *&^( comparing contest.

I shoot what makes me happy. Haven't shot a mature deer now in 3 years maybe or so and don't really care. I will shoot the next one that is mature and really trips my trigger, regardless of "inches of bone"

Then you have to factor in the area... I can kill a bigger deer at home than at our lease ever. Just not enough genetics where we do most of our hunting. We've shot older deer there, and they will be what I"m guessing, to be about 20 inches or so less score than a younger deer at home.

Bottom line, peer pressure is a bad thing and a stupid thing generally, IMHO. Shoot what makes you happy.

My personal end goal is to always shoot one that I don't have. Something freaky, like the double main beam I let go all year one year to see him age.. have never seen him since, but have one shed at least... or something bigger than what I have on the wall. For eating, its a no brainer, plnety of culls and antlerless around for all that.

It isn't all about numbers of course....mostly it's about having some basis of comparison of what might be attainable in a given area to gauge overall size that we can expect to find in an area we want to hunt.

Saying that an area can produce mule deer in the "180 class" tells us a lot more than simply saying "it produces big 4x4's" since the definition of "big" is highly subjective among different folks and areas,as we know.

Pat's right and it isn't only about antler size.On occasion I have shot big bodied ,old bucks with head gear that was "mediocre" compared to what the area can produce because I knew they were "old".

Conversely I have passed up mule deer bucks that grossed over 180 because I knew looking at them, that they were young,destined to be giants if they lived long enough.One spread 32". I know the details of measurement because someone else killed them after I let them walk.

But we talk about scores so that we have a common language of communication...and as a general rule, it takes an older deer to grow that kind of headgear....but not always.

Great input. I have a wonderful antelope and whitetail on the wall, so I'd like to find a mule deer next. Currently a little burned out on trying for an elk.

I let this enormous old monarch walk.......I'm a stupidasss

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One of my favorite mule deer bucks is a 3x3 that barely spread 20", taken on BLM in Colorado back in 1998, that wouldn't even score 160. But he was REALLY old, and the antlers are heavy and tall, with lots of interesting "beading" and some twisting in the tines. He was taken after a couple of days of figuring out where other hunters didn't go. The date was November 3 so the rut was barely starting, and his meat was very good. (Have found that to be true of many big mule deer bucks, some even during the rut.)

Five days later in Montana I killed my biggest-ever whitetail. It was a pretty good fall!

Yeah, that would net you a kick in the jimmy if we were hunting together.

JG: LOL! I hate to do it but I guess i would have to agree!


Big old bucks are definitely the coolest and like John says their venison is very good!

That's a locomotive with antlers... Wow... What a buck!

Guy

I'd probably let him walk too, my first priority when hunting is meat. a buck or doe that old has a higher chance of not tasting the greatest or being too tough.

of course it all depends on the circumstances, if it's the only deer I'd seen all season, bang.

I prefer WT to mulies for table fare so I rarely shoot a mulie anyway. different strokes for different folks.

I also could care less about what my hunting partners shoot, it's their tag. but that's just me.

This.

I have not put a tape to any of my biggest bucks. I can guess the average just looking at em but its a guess and it really doesn't matter to me. They were what I was after at the time.

The hardest deer to kill for me was years ago, with a bow and it took weeks to figure it all out and make the kill. ZERO inches of antler. She is mounted.

The biggest bucks antler wise I've killed have been totally anti climactic for me. They showed up and I shot em. Really quite boring.

Thats why inches mean nothing. The hunt is typically more important than whats harvested though we love the meat, but size of antlers, while I"m like most, I'll likely not pass a big one up unless its not bigger than the last.. I just am not in it for inches.

Sounds a lot like me, I hunted one buck in particular this year and never got a shot, I ended up filling my tag on a 2.5 yo dry doe, she was perfect for the table.
I have one doe I have tried to get the last 3 years, never had her in range, I call her Doris and she is very smart.
dumblucking into a huge buck isn't satisfying, same as paying lots of money to go somewhere and have a guide point one out to me. but that's just me.
preseason scouting, picking an animal/animals and hunting it/them is very satisfying.

I totally understand your point here and don't disagree. When I was out your way I bout [bleep] my shorts with all the bucks I saw, and passed up legal bucks for the first time in my life. Having grown up hunting the public lands of Michigan that was a brand new experience.

As you know I shot a doe, but would have shot anything bigger than my biggest buck taken here which by your standards would have been pretty piss-poor. The doe happen to be fatter so she got the bullet.

Thing is I paid full price for an any whitetail tag. Another guy may have opted to shoot one of the smaller bucks I let walk, and having paid the premium I'd not have blamed him even though I'd prefer seeing only mature bucks taken.

I'll be back before long and this time (most likely) by myself and hunting a lot harder than I could w/ an 11 yo in tow. Then it'll I'll be working by YOUR standards !

I'm hopefully going to be hunting with Ryan this fall! But I'll be going by my standards.

I LOVE big bucks. But if I don't get one I'm OK with that too. I'm all about the hunt and what makes my socks go up and down at the time.

I like that part of the quote. At the time.

Some days something will float my boat and will get it. OTher days I"ve let ones bigger than I've shot walk for whatever reason.

Still wish I could shoot a big one opening day once and then duck hunt the rest of the year.

Since I'm from the Mo side of the Ia/Mo border, a 150 whitetail isn't anything unusual, actually it is our minimum for a shooter. I would say that a 170-180 mulie is in the same class, but seems to be harder to find for me. Of course all of my hunting at home is on well-managed private land, all my mule deer hunting has been on public land. It makes a difference.

you can shoot whatever you want, my recommendation is to see what's out there before you drop the first 4x4 that walks by

could you pass this deer up?


FYI, he's still alive or at least was a month ago. I'm excited to see what he looks like this fall.

Young deer right there....let him walk next year too..

Agreed.




Edited: I guess i should qualify my answer a bit.

It depends where I am. Here in New England in heavy cover I'd likely end up killing him....things tend to break fast here with little time or opportunity for sizing an animal up in the heavy cover,and I'd probably shoot based on rack alone.

But in (say) eastern Colorado or Alberta,I'd probably let him walk,maybe having a bit more time in more open country or under other circumstances where I had a better chance to look him over.Aside from the fact that I would not want to travel to places like that with far better trophy potential, to end up killing a young buck that I did not go there to find.

Besides the fact that the difference between that buck,and a REALLY big one from Colorado or Alberta(or Manitoba or Saskatchewan), is going to be very apparent.I've found that if you have to look at them very long to decide if you want to shoot or not, they are almost never as big as you think.

A really big buck has that "POP", that "WOW!" factor.

Yep.

never happen. this was taken on pubic land that gets a decent amount of pressure.

I can say yes from here. But he'll look different through my scope.

Like I said...wherever my socks are at the time. Honeslty, it'd be tough for me. I dont shoot a lot of deer. If my kids' with me, even tougher to pass.

I think these two statements nailed it. I've read more than once that the average Out-of-state hunter in Illinois or Kansas, etc. on a guided hunt kills a 125" buck. Though we all know there are much better deer throughout those states.

I did pass up a 3 yr old buck this year, that was at least that good, maybe a little better. Not sure where that pic was taken, but that may be a 2 year old in some parts of the country. Very thin neck.

A 2 year old is a 2 year old in any part of the country.

country20: Never been anywhere that a 140 class buck was not a very good deer,and hard for anyone to pass up at any point on your typical 5-7 day hunt.

And there are very few places where a guy should hold out for a 150 class buck and set that as a goal on a given hunt. Parts of the mid west can be some of those places.

Anyone burning tags looking for a 160? Good luck to anyone doing that....it's the deer of a lifetime and very hard to obtain.

From looking at the country, that pic was taken not far from where I have hunted a lot. I would have taken that deer.

for me the part I don't get is when people come to an area, hunt hard looking for a "monster" then shoot a 120" buck the last day.
then they come back the next year and do the same thing. I see it ALOT where I am at. and they complain how they aren't seeing any real big ones.


I know several people here who won't shoot a buck unless it's bigger than one they already have taken. towards the end of the season they shoot a doe to fill their tag and put some meet in the freezer. how many here do that?

If any us of had private land locked up and access to good country we'd all be letting nice bucks walk and try to shoot a really nice one instead.


HARD to let a nice 3-4 year old buck walk on public though, especially when you KNOW he better wise up soon because someone else might find him.


I have been watching a mule deer buck off and on for the last couple years. Even on deeded land here it's beyond impossible to keep someone from shooting him.
He'll be a real nice one this Fall if he's still alive.

Very good point Sam,

these are some public land bucks in '12, none survived. 2.5 years old.