Who still hunts deer with the 303 Brit?

A local pawn shop just got one in that has a good bore that has been sporterized. I'd like to haggle them down a little bit and snag it up.

I don't, but I know they spend a lot of time in the deer woods still. 'Seems we see one every once in a while. Usually a Bubba's fantasy job. I just can't make my self get used to that weird bridge over the receiver, and the split stock. To each their own-I'm sure it's a suitable deer round. Heck, if it could kill a Messerschmidt, I'm pretty sure it could kill a deer.

A few years back I hunted almost exclusively with a sporterized .303 with great success. It is a good caliber in a good rifle.It WILL do a good job on a deer.

Stan in SC

I've got two: an old BSA P-14 Enfield Sporter Model E and a Ruger No. 1. I've killed a couple with the BSA (using Hornady 174 gr RN & Woodleigh 215 gr RN) but haven't bloodied the Ruger yet. Hope to remedy that this season.

In 1977 I purchased a Kleinguenther K14. Compared to other rifle is was very expensive. But ol' Robert Klienguenther claimed 1/2" groups for three shots so I bought one. I worked with several loads and got consistant 5/8" groups with an occatioal 1/2" and even 3/8" groups. I was delighted.

That year one of my co-workers borrowed a .303 and some factory ammo. He got a deer and I didn't. Life just ain't fair.

Buddy has a #1 he uses occasionally. The 2 he has shot with it looked pretty dead when we loaded them in the truck

My hunting buddy killed his first deer with the 303 Brit in the early 60's

I hunt deer and pigs with a 303 Brit, I'd even jump on an elk or moose with the little 215 Woodleighs at 2168 fps with my 303 double, weather permitting of course.

I have a no4mk1 and have a hunting load worked up, just haven't got around to using that particular rifle.

I have lost track of how many young PA hunters harvested their first deer with a .303 or a 7.7MM.

I see a few around when I go north hunting near the Lake Superior watershed. The American Legion would rent them out as well as old 30-40 Krag's and Springfield '06's. A lot of big old deer heads are on the walls of camps from them and they still get it done in good hands.

I still take my 303, but as a back up now, or in a situation where I would like to use iron sites. Mostly it is because it was my first centrefire rifle, and it is an old friend with which I have taken a lot of deer. About 15 years ago I took it to the range put a target up with a 2 inch bulls eye at 100 yards, and proceeded to put an 8 shot group into that bulls eye with the battle peep site. The gun will still shoot like that but I cant as my eyes need a scope. Dont discount these old warriors because of their looks.

I've got an ugly old Mosin Nagant I picked up for $95.00 at Fleet Farm a few years ago. I'd like to hunt with that some time, but it's so ugly it's hard to bring my self to drag it out of the truck. Kicks like a mule, but is pretty darned accurate for an old infantryman's rifle. Of course, it's about a foot high at 50 yards, so that could get a little sporty.......

Nothing wrong with the old .303 Brit as a calibre, but personally I would not want to carry a typical WW1 or WW2 era rifle to hunt deer unless it has been heavily sportised by someone who knew what they were doing..

We had a kid show up as a guest at our deer camp in Pennsylvania once. He had a ratty old sporterized No.4 Enfield. The evening of opening day he came in all dejected about missing his first deer. I looked at his gun and noticed it was missing the front sight blade. When I asked him about it he said he knew it was missing but figured on using one of the sight protector ears instead(!). I sat down and whittled a makeshift blade and epoxied it in place (never leave home without it). Next day we fired a couple shots to see how close it was and sent him on his way into the woods. I'll be darned if he didn't shoot a little spike, from around 30 feet away. So close he could've probably killed it without sights. I guess God looks out for some people...

I shot my first deer in Dec. 1964 with a 1917 vintage Lee-Enfield No.1 MK111.

It had the volley sight, was modded and the bore showed decades of hard use in BC, but, it did the job and was impervious to the harsh weather and rugged terrain.

I borrowed this from a neighbour, he was an old guy then, veteran of Vimy Ridge, 54th Batt. CEF, lost his right leg there.

Speaking of Lee-Enfields, today is the 100th anniversary of the first use of poison gas at Second Ypres. The clouds of lethal gas enveloped the soldiers, the French ran for it, others retreated and The First Canadian Division, stood like a rock, died like heros and held the Germans at bay.

I think it was General Sir Henry Rawlinson, who later said, "The First Canadian Division is the pride and honour of the British Army"....

For some of us here, this is still a very important anniversary....Lest We Forget.....

Killed my first half dozen deer with one. great deer woods round in my opinion. no bench rest accuracy with the one i shot but the deer never knew that.

The British people owe a huge debt of gratitude to the Canadian soldiers who gave their lives in WW1 and WW2.

I took the pictures below while visiting the WW1 battle fields a few years ago..

That is the monument, known here as *Vancouver Corner* with the brooding soldier statue. It was supposed to be the standard icon for all Canadian memorials on *The Western Front*, but, for some reason, it was the only such one erected.

Second Ypres, or, as I usually think of it, *St. Julien*, where the British Army, lost a mere 54,000 men.....

I think it is the French, Belgians, etc. who really owe all of we Commonwealth people beyond measure.

I tip my hat to true warriors, regardless of their nation of origin.

Canada has without a doubt given the world some first class fighting men.

My little brother still hunts hogs with his .303 quite a bit.

I turned my nose up at the 303 British for quite a few years. Then I bought a Longbranch number 4 mk1 that shot shot like a house on fire.

I sold it like an idiot, but I have a distinct respect for the cartridge.

I carried it hunting deer for a season or two before I sold it. THe truth is, I had complete confidence in the cartridge.

Anything a 308 can do in the game fields, the 303 can do as well.

The Canucks were and still are some of the best fighting men the world has ever known . Great Soldiers

I shot my first deer with a .303, No 1 Lee Enfield, but even though there are quite a few still being used in Canada, I believe it is a cartridge and rifle best suited to collectors of history and not the hunting fields. The cartridge is certainly capable, my dad shot loads of moose and some deer and a few elk with his. I just gave one away to a buddy a few weeks ago. He was with the British military for much of his career and loved the history of the rifle and cartridge.

I still hunt with my old NO 1 MK III from time to time

My 1st centerfire rifle was a SMLE with a cannister of 400 cordite rounds tossed in for $40.

It was the same rig my grandfather carried at Gallipoli. He was wounded, but one of the few survivors from the 18th Battalion, 100 years ago.

He died at 82 still carrying a Turkish bullet after sustaining a chest shot.

The .303 has an astonishing record.

I am in awe of your grandfather and that unit. That battle isn't much known in the states, but it should be. It ranks as one of the fiercest in history.

Can you explain this, please?

Thanks 4ager.
Penicillin wasn't yet invented so the put him in a bath of oidine hoping this "drawing agent" would move the bullet to a point where surgery could remove it.

It entered under his right arm, wound around internally inside his ribs and lodged between the heart and spine where they could not go 100 years ago.

The wound eventually started to heal so they fattened him up with a high fat fiet and told him it would stabilize the bullet and hold it there and he would likely die 0of a heart attack in later years.

Sounds very silly by todays standard but it was a century ago.
John

Damn. Just, damn.

How long did he live, if you don't mind me asking?

He's probably lucky that they didn't do surgery, though. He might not have survived the cure at all.

Thanks 4ager.
Penicillin wasn't yet invented so the put him in a bath of oidine hoping this "drawing agent" would move the bullet to a point where surgery could remove it.

It entered under his right arm, wound around internattly inside his ribs and lodged betwee the heart and spine where they could not go 100 years ago.

The wound eventually started to heal so they fattened him up with a high fat fiet and told him it would stabilize the bullet and hold it there and he would likely die 0of a heart attack in later years.

Sounds very silly by todays standard but it was a century ago.
John

He lived until he was 82. It was a hard war with reports than many went insane from the butchery that took place.

The Turks have so much respect for the Aussies they have a permanent preserve there called Lone Pine.
The centenial services will take place there in the 25th, which is Anzac Day.(ANZAC for Australian and New Zealans Army Corps)

That Steve guy from Canada will likely show here sooner or later. He's the one to ask.

His name's Steve Redgwell, and he's got a website, 303british.com.

The Lee enfield rifles I have used or handled are old and loose, the chambers are huge and sloppy, the triggers gritty and bumpy with a long take-up, the rifles can't be scoped efficiently, the stock beats a shooter up, they are too heavy, and generally not very accurate. The cartridge is rimmed, not a good fit for any other bolt action design.
I would love to have a good modern single shot in .303, or maybe a double, but the rimmed cartridge is a silly choice to convert a modern bolt action rifle to. So, while I have some nostalgia for both the cartridge and the rifle, I have used them and they hold no more fascination for me.
Anything that a .308 Win can do the .303 did many times long before, so it's not about killing ability. I think the .303 British SMLE is a wonderful piece of our history but does not compare well with more modern designs. That's just me, others can continue using their .303 SMLE's and I'm sure they will kill lots of game and enjoy it.

Gotcha. So, it's not the cartridge but the rifle that you meant when you were saying it is best left to collectors. On some levels, I agree with you. However, having a rifle within the inventory that is about as reliable as a stone axe and that fires a round with the proven capability to take everything on the planet (and the .303B has done so) is not necessarily a bad thing and certainly not a bad back-up option to have on hand.

The round in something like a Ruger #1, however, is still just as capable today as it has always been (perhaps more so, with the availability of better powders, bullets, and the stronger action).

Agreed! about the reliability thing... I keep a #4 SMLE at our bush camp for a "just in case" rifle, and I know it will always go bang when the trigger is pulled. It was used with serious intent on an elk hunt a couple years ago when a guest forgot his rifle's trigger lock key. Glad we can rely on it as a spare.

I've had several 303 British. Just have a single smelly now. The rifle is accurate and has similar power as the 308 and the 8x57 mouser (AKA Killer of mice).

My smelly is never going to have a scope on it while I own it. It is a back up rifle and it sits over the rear entrance door-way most of the year with suitable for deer or varmint loads in it. I kinda like it there.

I used one on a "pick-up hunt" in Canada when I was in graduate school in the late 1960s. It worked fine, but felt recoil was much greater than with my pre-64 Model 70 Fwt .30-06 in the closet back home in Texas. As far as I can see, the only reasons for using a SMLE these days are economy and nostalgia.

I currently do not have a decent No.4. I need to rectify that, I believe.

I used one when I was a kid to hunt deer. It was your typical "Sporterized" rifle. There were so many ordnance stamps on it that it must have been around the world 5x. I never cared for the safety, but it was extremely accurate at 100 yards. I loaned it out and it never came back. I still use a modified military rifle of some type to hunt deer. The only rifles I ever had a problem with when hunting in bad weather were commercial guns. I learned my lesson early. I will stick with the "Rattletraps" to hunt with in foul weather.

Nice to see posts from both Australia and Canada regarding the old .303!

Both the Canadian and ANZAC forces who used the .303 Brit have a lot to be proud of, from both World Wars.

John

John;
Top of the morning to you my cyber friend, I hope all is well in your part of the world.

It's a wee bit cool here this morning for the Okanagan - so much so I lit a fire in the stove to take the chill off whilst perusing the 'Fire.

So with apologies to those who've read this from me before in previous years, we've had the following work very well with SMLE rifles.

Brass longevity is typically an issue with the SMLE as they were cut with generous chambers in most cases. That doesn't mean a lot of the barrels weren't capable of placing bullets close together however - but 2-3 reloads were all one could get from brass until we came up with a better plan.

The brass issue can be solved in many cases by simply starting with virgin brass, opening the neck up with a .338 or .358 tapered expander ball and then sizing it back down with the .303 die - but leaving a secondary shoulder further up the neck.

The object is to have the bolt just so close with some effort on the newly formed case.

Fired with normal loads and then resizing the cases as one would any rimless case results in brass that has been lasting for more than 5 reloads and counting.

The only downside is one needs to keep the brass for each .303 you've got separated, but seeing how rare reloading components are up here nowadays there's most likely enough incentive to do so.

A whole pile of SMLE rifles have been "sporterized" up here and in the process were drilled and tapped by a wide variety of "craftsmen". Sometimes they are so far off that one can't get a modern scope to adjust enough to hit point of aim - but that can be fixed if one is so inclined.

I've modified Parker Hale and Weaver bases - there was another one that mounted into the rear sight base on a No. 4Mk1 too where this worked in the following manner.

We mount the base with the screws in place but loose. Then mount the rings and scope with the scope's horizontal adjustment in the center - so if its 10 turns total adjustment we're 5 in, etc.

We'll pull the bolt and bore sight the unit on a target 35-40 yards away to see how far off the base holes have been drilled. They really, REALLY vary in quality and straightness John.....

So we'll center the base/scope/bore all up so the reticle is pointing where we need it to if we can and if we can't we'll pull the whole thing apart and with a small chainsaw file just elongate the holes on the base in the direction it needs to go.

Once we have the base modified enough so the reticle is centered, a line is scribed on both sides of the base.

At this point I'll coat the mounting screws with release agent, cross hatch or score the bottom face of the mount and degrease it and the rifle action with white gas.

Glue the base onto the action along the scribed lines with bedding epoxy and in 24 hours one can mount the rings/scope combo, go sight the the old warhorse in and then take it hunting.

I'll note before leaving that this modification has been working on a couple rifles for more than 20 seasons here in BC and counting - so I'm pretty confident the epoxy trick works.

Anyway John, hopefully that was useful for someone wanting to get an old SMLE out afield again.

All the best to you this weekend sir.

Dwayne

Dwayne , had to do this very same thing for a friend to get his scope mounted decently on a poorly sporterized P-17 Enfield that had the rear sight removed with a bench grinder. He put a $400 Leupold on it and at the time I wouldn't have given $50 for the rifle. It was his grandpa's and that made it all worth the time and money to him. Still didn't shoot great but after glassing in the action and free floating the barrel it shot fine. Still killing deer in North Dakota for him. Allways enjoy your posts. Magnum Man

Thanks for the tip about elongating the holes and epoxy -- I could have used that when I mounted a scope for a neighbour years ago! Fortunately, the scope had JUST enough adjustment...

John

Back in the early 60's I remember going into the local department store sporting goods department and seeing Enfield Jungle Carbines for $35.00. They were stuffed into cardboard drums and were covered with a thick layer of dried cosmoline.

don't you wish you had purchased them all and stored them until now

I went by and checkout the one in the pawn shop. Enfield 1917 is stamped on it, bore looks great, but the bolt won't completely close for some reason?

$215 is tempting but I'm not sure on the bolt, it like about 1/8" .

Bearcat 74;
Top of the morning to you sir, hopefully this still, cool Sunday morning finds you well.

A quick question for you on the .303 before I begin to "guess without actually seeing"...

Are we talking about a SMLE Mk III you were looking at?

Thanks in advance.

Dwayne

I'm surely not up to snuff on my 303's and their variants, but it looks like this one only without the full lengh stock: http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Enfields/LEE-ENFIELD%20NO.1%20MKIII/LEE-ENFIELD%20NO1%20Mrk%20III.htm

Good to see so many still hunters.

Bearcat74:
Thanks for the clarification sir, I was just making sure we weren't talking about a P14/P17 Enfield is all.

So here's a video of how the bolt comes apart on a SMLE.


If the bolt head is a turn out or too loose, the bolt won't close.

Without having one in front of me and going from a bit of a foggy memory, I'm thinking it shouldn't be the safety restricting the forward movement - but in case it is try to move the safety all the way to the front or off position.

Here's a video of how the bolt should come out on that vintage of SMLE.



Anyway if the bolt head is fully screwed in as it should be, with the bolt out you might be able to see if the ejector on the left inside of the action is blocking the bolt from going all the way forward.

That "should" be a good start to see why the bolt won't close and hopefully was clear enough to be useful.

Good luck with the rifle whichever way you decide sir and all the best to you in the upcoming week.

Dwayne

Thanks for the info, I'll go back and give it a shot. You can open the bolt, pull it back and push it back forward but it takes considerable force. When you close the bolt it will close all the way about stops about 1/8" or so off of fully closing.

Bearcat74;
That is definitely not right as the SMLE was known to be a smooth and fast running bolt action.

If you can remove the bolt it might enable you to see where it's binding or contacting to cause the drag.

They are repairable of course, but it might be a better option to find a more pristine example.

As a by the way, my personal favorite SMLE are either the US built Savage or Canadian built Long Branch No 4 as they had a better rear sight setup and stiffer barrel.

A couple of them that I've played with shot better than they had any right to.

Anyway sir, good luck with your SMLE quest whichever way you decide.

Dwayne

I gave my son my Long Branch No.4 Mk1* as a Christmas gift when he was 11 years old. I paid $80.00 for this rifle back in the early 1990's. It has very highly figured sporter style stocks supposedly done by Elwood Epps in Ontario, Canada. I think something may have been done to the trigger, because the pull really isn't bad on it. It's kind of long, but not heavy, and the break is clean and consistent. I had a local gunsmith fit a thick Limbsaver pad to it before I gave it to my son and with that pad, the felt recoil is about like that of my .250 Savage Ruger M77 Ultralight -basically a flea-bite's worth.

When I gave the rifle to my son, it was about as long as he was tall, but he had no major problems shooting it, and he shot it really well from the get-go, having a few years of shooting a Crickett .22 with aperture sights under his belt.

I know that these things aren't supposed to be match-grade accurate, but this Enfield in my gun room isn't the first one I've shot that shot a whole lot better than conventional wisdom had be believing it should. Before I got mine, a friend bought one and home-bubba gunsmithed it in to a sporter. It would shoot three-shot groups around an inch at 100 yards with no problem when fired from a bench rest. My son's shot really well, too. I'm not much of a bench rest shooter in that I find that kind of shooting to be painfully boring. Once I get a rifle sighted in, I'm pretty much done with the bench and its rest. I like shooting from standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone, and doing that, I don't have much trouble shooting groups under 2 M.O.A. with the Enfield and my fifty year old eyes. It might not win a bench rest match, but where practical accuracy is concerned, it's definitely adequate. I've had commercial sporters that I've shot worse from field positions.

Whoever did the stocking, they must have known what they were doing, because the rifle not only shoots better than most Americans would think a No.4 should, but it has a handling dynamic more like a birdgun than a rifle, in spite of its length. That's what endeared me to it from the get-go and when I bought it, I was immediately thinking "pig gun" and it pretty much was my main ham harvester for 15 years. I never shot a deer with it, but I piled up plenty of California Central Coast swine with the thing.

My son is 16 now. I've offered to buy him a modern rifle many times. He couldn't be less interested. He sincerely believes that his Enfield is the schnitzit. When he goes target shooting with me, he'll do at least as well with that as I do with anything I've got (no bench, no rest -standing, sitting, kneeling, prone). One thing he really enjoys doing is whacking a reactive target ball with the objective being to keep the ball moving. Another is breaking clay pigeons set out on a berm at 125 yards as fast as he can get through a magazine. It amazes me how fast the kid can run that rifle AND accurately hit with it.

He's fond of it for many of the same reasons that I was. He, like I have, would describe the handling dynamics as being more birdgun-like than rifle like. When he pops it to his shoulder, the sight alignment is instant.

A lot of the other things he likes about it are related to ergonomics, too. He can easily manipulate all of the controls -the trigger, the safety, the magazine latch, and even load the magazine, all with thickly-gloved fingers. That's a major big deal to him because our modern gun deer season locally happens when it's pretty friggin' frigid outside.

He can carry it all day long in his hands. It really does carry well because it is so nicely balanced -something I liked about it, too.

He shoots it well. The felt recoil is virtually nothing and one of the benefits of having 25" of barrel is the muzzle blast is that much father away. As high power centerfire rifles go, it is a very pleasant thing to shoot. When we take it out, he can go through 200 rounds with ease.

From his perspective, there's nothing about his No.4 to NOT like. He even thinks it looks cool.

I know he appreciates the history of it, too. Every time we take it out, at some point, he'll set it down and stare at the markings on the left side of the receiver and opine that he wishes that rifle, dated 1943, could talk. How many Canadian boys not much older than him learned to shoot behind it? Did it go to war and what battles did it fight in? When it came back home to Canada, and got a new set of civilian clothes, who bought it's new suit? Did it hunt in Canada, or just punch paper? How did it wind up getting from Canada to California where Dad bought it? Those are things my son wishes his rifle could answer.

My son isn't really all that in to big game hunting. He'll go deer hunting a few days out of the year with me, mostly to humor me, I think. He's shot a couple of deer with it, though. Last year, he shot the biggest deer I've seen in the State of Oklahoma since I moved out here with it. I'm not really happy with the distance he thought it wise to shoot a deer using aperture sights, but he did put the bullet right where it had to go. He likes pig hunting more, and since going with me on my annual California birthday-bash pig hunt for the first time four years ago, he's looked forward to that ever since. He shot two out there with the Enfield and a third with "his" XP-100 pistol in 7mm BR. Quail hunting is the hunting the boy is really enthusiastic over. I don't have to cajole him in going to southeastern New Mexico for a quail hunt with me.

Even though he's a lukewarm big game hunter, he does enjoy shooting the shnitzit out of his Enfield, and he kind of surprised me while we were out pig hunting in California last February when he asked about my Caribou hunting in Canada, and if a U.S. citizen could still hunt in Canada. What prompted the question was that he's got the notion that we should do a moose hunt in Canada as he'd like to shoot one with his old Long Branch Enfield. Apparently, he thinks it might be a little "homesick" or something.

But yeah, I know at least one American kid who hunts with an Enfield every now and then, shoots the shnitzit out of it for fun, and who wouldn't trade it for any other rifle ever made anywhere at any time.

He's pretty fanatical about it, actually.

If, that IS an actual Ellwood Epps conversion, you have a gem. He was an opinionated, rather arrogant old geezer, thot he knew all about guns, etc. but, while he could be a total PITA and often was, he was a very good smith.

His L-E conversions, especially, were very advanced and worked well, he built some fine rifles.

Your reference to cold weather hunting made me chuckle as we always hunted deer in BC in late November into mid-December and it was COLD, sometimes below zero. We liked the L-E because it worked so well in such conditions and we always seemed to get our game with them.

Telecaster,

Would love to see a pic of that rifle if you have one available?

Regards,

Peter

I hunt deer & hogs with mine. I have a Winchester 1895 lever I use with 215gr Woodleighs that shoot through even the biggest nastiest pigs. For more precise work, I picked up this 1916 SMLE :



that shoots like this with my handloads:

Those old Lee Enfields can shoot a lot better than people give them credit for. Mine shoots the 150 gr Speer spitzer and 180 gr Speer RN with IMR 3031 very well.

My first rifle was and still is a N05 Jungle carbine. I have killed just one white tail and a rabid raccoon with it, but probably will never sell her.

It would be fun to have a 303 Brit and a 30-40 Krag in a Ruger No 1 medium sporter. I have a 30-'06 in a No.1 RSI that is as accurate as one needs and handles as smooth as any bird gun double I ever shot.

I've got an unaltered Jungle Carbine that was my grandpa's like most of them its not a great shooter, 3 or 4 moa type of thing I've packed it for bear issues but never really hunted with it. I had a sporterized No 4 though by Parker Hale with their barrel and it shot pretty well 1.5 or so. They sure are dependable though and a cool bit of history

Dont know whether to keep this thread going. My enfields were all cherry picked . i look for good triggers and good barrels. They are still available. I often stop at an open field where you can see there is no living thing and no place where a stray shot may hurt anything, and shoot at random rocks with my number 4. I do reasonably well. I often say to myself Its amazing that the firearms industry hasn't really made much advancements since 1945. I have current remingtons, winchesters tikkas and brownings, but there isnt huge difference .

My first experience with this caliber was with a rifle owned by my cousin. I'm not sure what make it was but, I do remember it being a stock military rifle with what was probably a cheap scope so, maybe an Enfield but, I can't be sure. Early one morning, I saw him take a coyote at well over 200 yards, across a pecan grove. He dropped the rife down for a split second and then looked though the scope again and said "I got it." I remember thinking this had to be the best hunting rifle ever. I was 14, maybe 15 years old at the time. I'm now 63 and still fondly remember that shot.

So there I was in early 1970's, moose hunting near Cherokee Lake. The bull in question was within 50 yards of us two hunters, but we were 1/2 mile from our weapons, which had been portaged on the first effort (another greenhorn mistake).

Nearly a four-minute mile in full hip-boot-dress, resuted in Alvin, having retrieved his British, placing two 150 grainers through the heart of a 1400-pound bull moose. The rest of the story is long and involves carrying meat, drinking and celebratation. I should write it down some day!
Bill

When I was growing up there were quite a few 303 British and 30/40 Krags still being used. And a lot of times the cartridge wasn't even mentioned, it was just the "high power" or "the deer rifle".
My uncle killed his biggest mule deer with the 303 in the early '70's, I don't know the model of rifle or if it even had a scope. What I do remember is that he killed it at the base of some river breaks and the only way out was up and he forgot to bring rope and his license and it was a long way from anywhere.
So he used his boot laces to tie the deer's ankles to a pole and him and his brother carried it out indian style on their shoulders up the breaks.

just some random thoughts on the .303:

Ruger did have a run of #1's in the caliber a couple years ago, and if one were interested in maximizing the cartridge potential, that would be a good place to do it:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=481388361

I have a #4Mk1. It taught me that headspace gauges were invented for a reason It also educated me, that #4's were designed with interchangeable bolt heads, so one can easily adjust headspace. I needed a replacement bolt for mine, and after some testing of different heads from Gun Parts corp, I managed to get the rifle where it would resist closing on a "no go" headspace gauge.

I have only shot factory loads in it, but it seemed to shoot well, so some handloads are likely for this summer's testing.

'Tis a gem, but I have my doubts as to whether Epps had anything to do with it. I don't really know enough about him or his work to know. I do know that the dealer I bought it from could be more than a little full of raw excrement product at times, and it was the dealer I bought it from who billed it as being stocked by Epps. It looks like an old U.S. made Bishop brand stock set to me, but with MUCH more highly figured wood.




Believe it or not, it gets pretty cold here in Oklahoma from mid-November to the end of December when our modern gun seasons are happening (general and holiday antlerless) thanks, in no small measure, to our friends in Canada graciously sharing their refreshing Arctic air with us. But the old No.4 Mk1* is indeed a joy to use under such conditions. Heck, it's a joy to use anytime!

Its nearly 50 years ago, but, I seem to recall that Epps actually did use some of Bishops stocks in his various conversions.

His best work was actually quite decent, but, he did not have a sense of line and proportion equal to that of Al Biesen whose rifles could be had legally in the Kootenays of BC where I lived then and, of course, the JOC influence was strong.

I just missed a G33-40 .257 that he did in a relatively classic style a couple of years ago, thot about it too long......well, too many guns as it is.

Ditto!

I'd love to post some pics for you but Nigerian Internet Scammers have more sophisticated Internet access than I do here in the heart of the Cherokee Nation. Also, all the digital photos I have of the rifle are really photos of my son using it and they're really photos of him and not the rifle.

You're not missing much, though. The rifle looks like the bone-stock Military Issue Long Branch No.4 MK1* barreled action was fitted with a set of Bishop furniture more highly figured than normal and installed with more effort than simply bolting new pieces on. The wood around the butt socket isn't proud of the receiver, for example, but has been finished to fit level and even with the metal. I know the butt was a Bishop item because I found the butt plate it had on it last night while rummaging through a "misc. bits box" for a set of Weaver rings. The butt plate says Bishop on it and it's the one originally on the rifle when it was mine.

The rifle still has the bayonet lugs in front of the front sight base. I would think if Epps would have had anything to do with it, those would have been ground off. But I don't know enough to know.

I had the barreled action manganese phosphate coated by Federal Ordinance in South El Monte, CA shortly after I bought the rifle. I don't remember what made me think that having that done was a good idea -maybe I thought it would be more weatherproof for hunting pigs in February through April, when the Central Coast of California gets a fair amount of rain. Maybe I just thought it would look cool... I don't remember.

Anyhow, I may well try to post pics of the rifle, but I'll have to take some new ones and will probably post them in a separate thread when I do.

Whether Epps had anything to do with it or not, it's a cool rifle and it was a favorite of mine that got a lot of use before I gave it to my son.

Here is my 200 yard target from my 303

I killed several deer when I did hunt with one of my .303's.
My favorite load was mild but effective. I used a 180 grain soft point Speer over 40 grains of IMR4895. I got really acceptable accuracy and it was not a particularly harsh recoiling load. None of my .303's had recoil pads on them.

Stan in SC