This is apparently a new cartridge on the skyline (Shot Show presentation) for those states (i.e., Mich, Iowa, Indiana [?] to name a few) allowing straight-walled cartridges for deer hunting of late. The .350 Legend as I understand it is based off the .223 and opened up to .357 and with the same COAL. The ballistics for a 150-gr FTX-type of bullet zeroed for 150 will give you a hold-on for deer to 200. It’ll be priced similarly to the .223 ammo but will exceed its energy significantly (1800 ftlbs vs 1200 ftlbs, I presume at the muzzle).

This will be another option for those who forego the charcoal-burners, shotguns, the 450 Bushmaster, or handguns. Sounds interesting.

It’ll be a candidate for accurate bolt guns and I imagine AR uppers are in the works somewhere. Read more at:

https://www.range365.com/winchester-350-legend-birth-legend

I wouldn’t have posted this if I had seen the previous “350 Legend” thread under Hunting Rifles. But reading through that thread, it’s clear that many don’t get it. It’s not just another cartridge thrown up into the wind hoping for a market. It has a ready-made, niche market of deer hunters in those states that have legalized straight-walled cartridges for those who want to hunt but are mandated to a handful of handgun cartridges incl the likes of the 444 and the 45/70 and a few others...if they don’t want to use a shotgun, handgun, or muzzleloader. These kinds of cartridge are not chosen by choice but by mandate. It’s the law.

No cartridges with shoulders; only those that somewhat replicate muzzle-loader ballistics and are on purpose relatively short-range affairs; this is for the rather high-density hunter areas and populated rural areas common in those states.

The great topper, I think is using the 223 case and OAL, making it a natural for AR’s, aside for the ease in a proper bolt gun.

I thought some people were getting around the rule with a short 35 rem in certain states.

I would love the inclusion of some of the milder, older lever-gun rounds like the 35 Rem, but revised, or no, if it has a shoulder it would be illegal in Iowa. Not sure about some of the other states.

Gunblue on YouTube has reviewed it.

Not to mention all the extra bother involved. Loonys tend to lose sight of the fact that Joe Deerhunter wants things simple and over the counter.

Indiana? That state was pretty weird for a while. I don't think it was a straight wall rule, but a caliber & length rule. Something like rifles had to be at least .35" with a case no longer than 1.8" or something. People came up with some neat little cartridges like a .35 WSSM.

Indiana was never a straight wall rule.
Almost was but decided to go length limits instead.
Started out .35 min
1.16” minimum length was still is
1.625” max length which was then revised to
1.8” which it is now.
We now can use rifles of any caliber starting at .243 on private lands only the 1.16” min 1.8” max and .35 still stands on public lands.

Yeah, you can imagine some with no gun background in these state legislatures trying to crack caliber-jargon, cartridge names, and case-capacity concepts...

These new cartridges ( 450 Bushmaster, 350 Legend) are interesting and practical for these restricted areas. However, rules and legislation is constantly fluid and hard to keep up on. By the time these cartridges get a foothold the rules will change. What’s truly entertaining and frightening at the same time is going on some local forums where the IQ pool is rather shallow and reading some posts. I’m not sure what math calculations these guys are using but a lot of them somehow figure the 450 Bushmaster is an adequate 500 yard deer rifle. Try to explain to them that their figures may hold true for area target accuracy but not for hunting and all hell breaks loose. Thankfully I don’t hunt in those areas where there are 450 Bushsnipers around. I’m thinking if I did a nice lever gun in 44 Mag or a Ruger 77/44 would be my Huckleberry. Kind of sounds like the 351 Self Loading revisited.

I noted that on another sight, they reinvented a 112 year old cartridge that even came in a semi-auto.

+200fps.

If you mean the .351 WSL, yeah kinda sorta. Probably not enough demand for it, but a handy, attractive SL fir the new round would be pretty nifty. Those old Winchesters were nice. Old Jack once remarked that "cops liked to shoot robbers with them". I saw at least one article way back when where someone converted one to .357. The new one's too long for the old Rugers, but ought to fit in a Mini, for those of us who find ARs oogly and unwieldy.

And yet you can hunt coyotes at midnight shooting a 338 Lapua.

Or, during the day.

Did you get the part about it carrying a 9mm dia. bullet?

The winchester press release says .357 bullet

https://winchester.com/350-Legend

I used my 444 marlin and ruger 44 carbines. I don't have any issue with the restrictions. Might look into the legend. It would be awesome if Remington would chamber in a 7600 carbine

The post I looked at says 357/9mm. I would think a true 35 cal bullet would be preferable. 350 Legend

Hesp your reading too much into that 9mm part.
The writer of that article should have never included the 9mm part and left it at .357.
A 9mm is .355”
Trust me it is a true .357”
No .355” bullet would work for hunting at those velocities.

My understanding also. Can't understand why 9mm was even mentioned. It seems to me that a cast 357 180 gr bullet would be a great combo.

This is a strange cartridge....................First,and foremost is that most folks think that it is a 223 necked up to ,357.This is not the case at all...................The case head is larger in the 350 L at .390 as compared to the 223 at .376.............so there goes the idea of cheap brass..................I just don't get it........maybe y'all do,but I don't

When we *thought* it was .223 necked up, it made sense.
You are right, since it isn't, it don't.

Winchester screwed the pooch on this one!

The Saami drawing says .378 case head.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/350-Legend-Public-Introduction.pdf

It does indeed, along with a 0.357 bullet diameter but a 0.355 groove diameter...

Wow, seems like there is so much misinformation floating around about this round and much of it coming from Winchester.

I'll reserve judgement to when actual production rifles and ammo are available as it seems the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing...

Indiana...............we can trim .35 rem to meet the state's PCR spec.
No straight wall case mandate.

If your living and or hunting in a straight wall only state where shots are generally under 150 yards you have likely spent your whole hunting life hoping some day you might get to hunt with a lighter weight bolt centerfire rifle that wont kick too much and that dont cost $45 a box or more for 20 rounds. You can split hairs all you want about this but this is a Good thing for those folks. No question about it.

If this gets offered in a few different affordable bolt action rifles you will see a bunch of 45/70’s hit the market as well as a bunch of folks making the move from their slugguns to this.

I currently hunt with a .444 in Ohio. I live in Florida but hunt up there every for 30 years every year. I also have a lease in Alabama and just gave one up in Florida. So I hunt in rifle states as well. As soon as I see a few more choices in rifles I will be seriously be considering getting one.

If you dont live in one of those states then it would likely be a little interest to you. Winchester didnt have your needs in mind. Plenty better calibers for you.

I live in Ohio and have several legal rifles to choose from. That's not going to stop me from rebarreled a CZ or Sako mini action into one of these. While I need it like a need another arm, what's a loony going to do?

Why aren’t you guys running lever action 357 mags with flexi-tip bullets?

I’m certain some folks are. I currently have and use a Marlin ‘94 in 44 mag; it’s a very nice handy, carry rifle. As to those bullets you mention, I assume you mean the Hornady FTX’s. Actually, running them through Horn’s ballistic program for the 44, 225-gr load, a nominal 1800 fps (rifle velocity), and their BC, it really adds nothing really useful in regards to a flatter trajectory and thus extended range in the 44 compared to a more typical 240-gr soft point, and I would assume that’s true for the 357 also.

I use my 45-70 guide gun. Same for my buddy. My son will never know the abuse of shooting slugs. He somehow adopted my 1894 in 44....even after I bought im a 16in Henry in 44. I like the 45-70. 450Bm has never appealed to me. I don't foresee switching but with 2 more kids to go I have to imagine the recoil of the 350L in an AR with a suppressor would make for a pleasant hunting experience for them.

I like the name for it. At least it has that going for it.

I’m gonna buy ten of them and never fire them.

"And yet you can hunt coyotes at midnight shooting a 338 Lapua"

The southern tiers counties in western NY, were like that for many years. Most counties along the PA border were restricted to slug guns or inlines for deer, Then they finally approved center fire rifles for deer, several years ago..

All that time when center fire rifles were banned for their firearms deer seasons, a farmer could use any rifle they wanted to use for killing deer for crop damages, including ARs. Same for shooting woodchucks or 'yotes. Never made a damn bit of sense to me, as those counties on the NY side of the border, are just as rural and thinly populated, as those on the PA side.

I need another deer rifle about as much as I could use a few more achy joints, but I might go for a single shot in 350? Had an NEF heavy barrel in 223 for years, kinda miss it as it was a handy little sob to tote around and shoot 'chucks with and damn accurate with my loads.

Like .35 rem just fine on deer.
Have rifle and pistol.

.350 legend?

I'm interested.
Might be a dandy deer round.


Proly build an AR in it.
Be a lil thumper for HD too.

I don't need another deer rifle.
But I want about a half dozen more.

I wanna say how the heck do you guys deal with those cartridge restrictions but I live in Oregon so our day is coming. Maybe not cartridge restrictions but some kind of BS or another. Absolutely sucks to not be able to hunt bottleneck cartridges or be limited to 1.8". Man, that really sucks.

.35 rem trimmed to 1.8 is easy and works well.
(IN we can run bottlenecks in PCR).

Public land requires PCR.
Private land you can run reg HP rifle .24 cal and up, 1.16 to 3" case length.

So used regular ol .35 rem unmodified last yr.

No suck.

Checked Win site ............350 FAQ

Says Indiana PCR is straight wall case LOL

No it isn't.

Before the HP rifle allowance (when only rifles allowed were PCR)............quite a few folks did wildcats off WSSM..
Even when our max case length was 1.625.

Then they upped it to 1.8 and folks spending the $ could have 300 yard capable PCRs.
Dunno if that then got folks to say "why not reg HP rifle?"

We got that under some "test period" a couple yrs back. Expect it to stay around.

Yeah, kinda drawn out and a little messy.............but we have PCR's for public land with no straight wall case req.
And we have reg HP rifles for private land.
Pretty nice IMHO.

Hell I've killed deer here w shotguns and MZ, even handguns...........out to 150 yards or a little longer.
My farthest PCR or HP rifle kill here has been 75 yards LOL.

What the rifle allowances have done for me............, is let me use cool rigs.
Ruger ,44 fingergroove
Ruger #1 RSI .243
Remington 760 .35 rem

Got no hate for a rifled 870 really.
But I grew up hunting chucks, and like rifles better.

hook, I’m with you.

Used a slug gun and then my TC Omega for a lot of Indiana white tails.

Then built a 358 Indiana Deer Cartridge aka a 358/25 WSSM shooting a 200 grain Hornady SP at 2,600 fps. Built off the Win WSSM CRPF action. Nice thumper.

Then they changed to 1.800” case length, so I had a 358 Hoosier built on a Rem 700 short action. Basically a 358 Win shortened to 1.800”. Still shoots a 200 grain Hornady SP at 2,550 fps. Still a deer thumper.

Then they started to allow anything that was 6mm or 30 cal, but nothing else. So used a 243.

Then they expanded it to anything 6mm to 30 cal. But not smaller or larger. So a 7mm08 works great.

After the 5 year trial period, I hope they put some permanent rules in place. It’s getting quite trying.....

Other than the obvious Random Bastard Thought dart board method, what criteria have they used to approve or disapprove cartridges out there?

hookeye: what is PCR?

Pistol cartridge rifle

I don’t really know except the approved, straight-walled cartridges are generally ballistically similar to a generic muzzleloader load. There, I guess I do know after a fashion. Just speaking about Iowa, most deer hunting is in relatively small, timbered parcels often involving fairly high hunter densities, so the rationale is “short range” cartridges are the safest. Thus you have cartridges like the 45/70, the 444 Marlin, the 450 Bushmaster, the 44 mag, 45 Colt, and a host of others including now the new 350 Legend (which I’m sure will be added to the list) becoming legal. Actually there are case-length minimums and maximums as part of the criteria.

Going to those kinds of centerfire cartridges also attracts another group of hunters to deer hunting — those like me who don’t care to juggle all the components of a charcoal-burner or hunt with a shotgun using slugs.

The southern tier of counties with many more timbered draws and woodlots than the northern parts of the state, and thus far more deer, does have more liberal centerfire cartridge regulations for the very late, “extra doe” season to better control the deer numbers.

Well, it’s out. For the “straight-wall” states (and others), Ruger will chamber it in the Ruger American Ranch model.

The dealer that started the .450 American run has the new .350s now. Randys video

Oh goody, another cheap plastic gun.

The people who just want to hunt will buy stuff like this, and that's fine. If I were stuck hunting in a restricted zone like that, I'd buy or cobble together something that fit the rules, and also my notions of something nice, maybe one of the Number 1s or a levergun, or re-bored Henry SS. Thankfully, we're pretty wide open here; any centerfire, bows, xbows, handguns .357 and up, plus ML and a four-day Mountaineer Heritage season where only stick-bows and sidelock MLs are legal. I can hunt deer from the end of September until December 31 with something and then with my Renegade or recurve in January. I really feel for folks who have to try and draw just to hunt deer.

"We received the first 500 of these rifles and they are ready for their new forever home."

LOL. That wording cracked me up.

Chick lingo.

Would love to see it this year in a quality lever-gun.

There are no quality lever guns made anymore.