Damn If I'm not thinking of a .223 Kimber Montana as a dedicated deer rifle. I'm totally into rifles I can shoot all day. Been in contact with some stellar high country men that hammer giant bucks in colorado, utah, and california high country and Lowe and behold they smash big mule deer bucks with a .223 Montana. Totally gets my interest. Thoughts?

With out a doubt a 223 will kill deer. It would not be my dedicated deer rifle choice. I would look at the .243 or 25 cal's, little more knock down power and still able shoot them all day.

I bought this Montana .223 with the intent to punch it to AI and use it as a dedicated deer and antelope rifle.

I have not punched it to AI yet, because I am lazy and cheap. I did kill this deer with it, plus 5-6 antelope, but killed my 2017 and 2018 mule deer with a bigger rifle since I was also elk hunting when I happened to come across the deer.



I've $hit canned the bipod and just rest over my pack now. I've settled with the 62 TSX. At first I wasn't impressed with that bullet at .223 speeds, but it has grown on me with the last few antelope.

All day, every day. Barnes if you want little meat damage, Sierra 77gr TMK or Hornady 75gr ELD-M if you want to be impressed, or Federal 62gr Fusion for ease and all around performance.








No cartridge has “knock down power”. Bullets kill by damaging tissue. The more tissue damaged, the faster animals die all else being equal. There are bullets that can be used in a 223 that cause more tissue damage than anyone would want from a 300 mag.

I’ve killed a lot of hogs, but only 1 deer with a 223. The only limiting factor I’ve found with the 223 is range. The little bullets tend to run out of speed past 300 yards and it shows on game in my experience. That being said, I never had an issue taking an animal with one.

Nothing wrong with choosing it for a dedicated deer rifle. It'll get the job done if you do your part.

It's worked very well on a wide range of game for me out of .223's and has been accurate in all of them. Very good bullet/load especially for .223's that aren't twisted fast enough for longer bullets or have limited mag box space. As stated, it's the easy out of the box route.

Very nice. Two questions, if you don't mind. Did you know it had a drop tine before you shot it and , if so, how nervous/excited were you?

Thank you.

If I weren't already a long way down the rabbit hole of loonyism, and was just starting out, I would not hesitate to arm myself with a .223 as my primary deer rifle. As it is my interests have scattered to hell and gone, and I'm a lost soul.

Still and all, a quality .223 bolt gun or single shot is pretty high on my to-do list.

Have you been able to use those in a 1:12 twist?

Anyone have experience with the 65gr Sierras on deer or hogs?

I have killed tons of deer and hogs with a .223 the last few years. 52-65 grainers... I think I'm going back to the 55 gr soft tips. I do not shoot animals past about 250 yards with it.

Like others here, I've killed deer and hogs with the 62TSX and it is a mean little bullet when speeds are high. Digs deep and causes a fair bit of damage. What it does not do is retain velocity or cheat wind well past 250yds or so, and it doesn't seem to expand well when it starts to slow down. If hunting where shots past 200yds are frequent, I'd much rather have something on the order of 6mm or 6.5mm. This assumes I was looking for a "smaller gun" than your typical .277,.284,.308 stuff.

I would agree on the range limitation. I used a 220 Swift and the 55gr TB one year. I also used the 22/6mm (.224 TTH) with the 75gr Swift. While the Swift was awesome, the TTH was "spectacular"! I later used a .221 Fireball CZ 527 and the 50gr Barnes XLC on an 80# shoat. It was a good killer. I have a female cousin who has used the 22-250/55gr soft nose as her dedicated deer rifle for over 40 yrs now. She lives in Texas. The 22-250 is used some here in Utah. Mostly for coyotes with an occasional deer thrown in. I am sure a 223 with the right bullet would work on most of deer hunting. I put the fast 22s in the same category as the smaller 6mm rounds, both have to be used right, but work when they are! Have a ball dude!

Not to high jack... BUT... what does a 223 do a 22-250 wouldn't do better? Is this a twist issue?

223 will definitely do the job, although wouldn't be my first choice for a dedicated deer caliber either. As others have eluded to they are on the "heavier" end of 223 bullets so make sure the twist rate will handle them (likely in the 1:9 or 1:8 range). Other than that it will be making a quality shot and not exceeding the capability/design of the bullet.
As for the Montana I have one in 25-06 and really enjoy carring it through season. Mine likes heavier bullets in general BUT does not like to be pushed at higher end velocities. I've found loads that give me good velocities and terminal performance. Never had a deer go more than 40 yards or so. Good luck in your pursuit!

Whatever winds your clock, as long as it's legal. Haven't gone there yet, but here any CF is legal. I have two .24 caliber rifles that are lighter than my .223, so that's where my selection begins. A good CF .22 could be considered an equivalent of the .40-.45 caliber MLs of times past, I think. My late friend made a couple of good kills on does with handloaded 55gr Hornadys out of his .22/250. We found one of those bullets in the hindquarter after full-length penetration.

I knew he had the inline extra point on his left side, but has no idea about the droptine until I got up to him.

Excitement meter was pegged regardless, just like it is on all bigger critters.

Hey pointer,

Sorry, I've not tried them in a 12 twist.

Boy that’s a dandy Ted

I have killed bunches of hogs with the 62 TTSX in my AR. If you keep your shots close, it will work, but there are much better calibers for deer hunting. The smallest I would use is a 243.

If I got a 223 dedicated deer rifle------What am I suppose to do with my 30/06 dedicated everything rifle?

Barnes TSX/TTSX’s are good bullets, but they need velocity. Lots of people think that they need to go to “tough” bullets when the go to .22’s and even 24’s, which is exactly opposite if you want dramatic kills. The 77gr TMK does more damage than a 150gr NBT from a 308, while penetrating 18+ inches.







As above- change projectiles from light varmint bullets and tough monos, to bullets such as the 75 and 88gr ELD-M’s, 77gr TMK and it’s a whole different animal.









You want more damage than this?-


110 yards






303 yards.












Just under 300 yards

65 yards-



Around 100 yards-


Just over 100-

Just under 200-




280’ish



190’ish I believe.



30’ish yards

I've shot 1 whitetail doe with a 64 grain PP 223 WSSM factory load and several more whitetail does with 60 grain Partitions and 64 grain PPs fired from 1-9" and 1-10" ROT 22-250s. I didn't see that much damage with the 60 grain Partitions on deer shot at between 80 and 250 yards. The doe that I shot with the 223 WSSM wasn't that far away and showed a lot of tissue damage, but it was a through and through lung shot, so no meat was damaged.

I whacked this pronghorn at 558 yards with my .223 Rem and the 62 TSX. He took 3-4 steps and fell over dead. Shot a fair number more between 2-300 yards with the same setup. Not much drama.



I had some poor luck at first with monos, especially when not at warp speed but I got over it after a few more kills. Sometimes they drop right there, sometimes they run 50 yards, but they always die and leave plenty of blood if that's important to you. Really no different than most cup and cores, other than the TSXs tending to kill a bit slower than the more violently expanding bullets IME.

Well as a dedicated deer rifle for easy shots the 223 will work ok. Last deer I took with one I used the Hornady 75 gr. BTHP and though penetration was 100% I wasn't all that impressed with wound channel. The deer was though, she ran 30 yards or so and was done. Before twist mania happened I shot deer with several different bullets and had decided I liked the 60 grain Hornady HP and SP bullets better than most with the 70 gr. Speer also good. I keep my shots under 150 yards and in the ribs making an effort not to hit the shoulder or in the neck just in front of the shoulder. I really don't have a problem using a 257 Roberts, 7x57, 308 or 7-08 for any and all deer hunting and would pick one of them for a "dedicated" deer rifle.

I’m thinking about it. 2935 FPS or so at the muzzle, IIRC.




P

Them 223's suck, you need a 22/250

Excellent pictures of pretty much exactly what I DON'T want my venison to look like. Dead is the goal. DRT is great, detonated wastes too much.

Give me a break.

Dang Formidilosus! That is some nasty wound cavities and bloodshot! My goal was always to have "much less damage", ha. I wonder if our Troops get that kind of damage on Jihadis with the 77gr OTM Hornady from their M4s? Can you imagine if the y pulled out a knife and did the same kind of pics as you have? ha

That was the point. Why would I shoot a 243/308/270/30-06/300WM when I’m already getting more damage than I want?

The vast majority of those deer the bullet exited. 223 can’t be “marginal” and at the same time “cause too much damage”. One or the other.

If the 77gr TMK is too much, then it is a simple matter to change bullets and go down in damage to suit tastes.






No one is using 77gr Hornady’s anymore- MK262 is the 77gr Sierra Matchking. In any case- no, neither bullet does what the 77gr TMK does. That bullet is in a whole other class.

Actually with the right bullets placed in the right places meat damage can be pretty minor with most cartridges. Even the round shown. Great pictures, thanks for going to the trouble.

Gee.....I just don't know....

Sig has a 77 grain HP load, has anyone used them on deer or hogs.

I noticed the Sierra doesn't recommend the 77 grain TMK for shooting anything larger than varmints.

"MatchKing rifle bullets are super-accurate bullets with very thin jackets and are held to exacting tolerances in diameter and weight. Their accuracy has been acclaimed worldwide and they have been used to win more target competitions than all target bullets from other manufacturers combined. Weight retention is held to within +/- 0.3 grain. Sierra has enhanced a segment of the MatchKing line by adding the acetal resin tip, thus crowning the Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet line. The major advantage of adding a tip to the bullet is the reduction of drag, producing a more favorable ballistic coefficient. The Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullet is an excellent choice for Palma and F-Class (FTR / F Open) matches, as well as 3-Gun and various other competitions. Another benefit is reliable feeding in magazine fed firearms.

Although the MatchKing line is recognized around the world for record setting accuracy, like their untipped counterparts, Tipped MatchKing (TMK) bullets are not recommended for hunting anything larger than varmints. Having heavier jackets than the Hornet or Blitz line of bullets, these bullets will not provide the same explosive expansion on small varmints. This is not loaded ammunition."

Explosive wounds like those in your pictures is one of the reasons that I stopped using the 0.243" 85 grain and 0.257" 90 grain BTHP GKs. Even though those two GKs are advertised as being suitable for hunting medium game, they seem a little more fragile than I prefer. Still, if you shoot 'em behind the shoulders and though the lungs you won't lose any meat as long as your shot doesn't go high and damage the tenderloin. I don't have enough confidence in 0.224" bore rifles for hunting when/where there is the potential to tag a trophy buck, so I have only used them for hunting during antlerless-only whitetail seasons.

Thanks pard, I didn't know the MK262 was a Sierra. I have family that used it back in 2004 in the Sandbox. Marine SIL, said they had no problems with them! ha I used the 68gr Hornady OTM in a 22-250 Ackley 9" twist on coyotes and prairie dogs. It seemed to hold together very well on coyote. it made PDs go five ft high in the air, spinning to the right! ha. I wonder what that 68 Hornady would do in a fast twist 223? I had an old friend who used the Hornady 60gr SP in a 220 Swift (the same rifle I used later, I bought it from him) for depredation hunts on mule deer. It was wicked and yet held together pretty well, but that was not a fast twist either.

Jeebus! That's pretty brutal. I don't think I'll talk badly of the 5.56 anymore.

If a 223 was the only choice I had as a deer rifle, I'd gladly use it, and expect it to work as long as I did my part. However, thankfully, I have better choices and I use them.

Easily my favorite caliber to shoot....anything. It works, and works well.

Y’all are going to talk me into a 223....

Nah, too small. You need at least 33 caliber and at least 250 grains of bullet to kill big game.

No doubt the .223 works well but as several people have mentioned "if you do your part". That of course is true in every hunting situation. I like the idea that you should use a cartridge that will work best when things go wrong, mentioned many times in other threads. The thought that you can shoot the 223 all day is a very good point.
Maybe make a dedicated shooter & a dedicated hunter twin. My "problem" is figuring out which one to dedicate.

With proper bullets the .223 works fine on deer sized critters "when things go wrong"....

A couple seasons ago I hunted mainly with a T3 SL in 223. Shot 75gr Hornady HPBT into little groups and did the job on the only buck I shot that season. About 120yds buck didn’t make it 15yds and collapsed. Only complaint was no blood trail but one wasn’t needed.

Our deer are easy enough to kill, I could do my hunting with a 223 if needed/wanted.

Thanks so much for sharing that buck with us! Wow! What a stud! Congrats!

The 223 is nice to carry and shoot. I would not use one if there were bigger animals on the menu, shots might be more than 300 yds., I was spending a bunch of money on a hunt, if I I had a very hard to draw tag, or if extremely windy conditions were likely.

I shoot a 243/6mm more for the same reasons as above but it has the same caveats as the 22s just slightly less so. With a fast twist 223 the difference between a 22 & 24 shrinks quite a bit. So I would say get one and see how you like it which I am sure you will.

If you are talking to people who "hammer giant bucks in colorado, ... with a .223 Montana", you can probably get a reward for turning them in. The minimum legal caliber in Colorado is 6mm/.243".

Ya, that's a problem. Same here in Washington, 6mm/243" minimum legal deer cartridge.

And 6's, 25's and 6.5's work just fine.

Guy

24.0 gr TAC & 65 BTSP @ 92 yards, IIRC. High shoulder shot. Dropped. I put the finisher in him just to be sure.

It’s my go to hog/deer load out of my 16” middy.

223/556 is a heck of a cartridge to kill deer with,sharp shooters who are called into areas to kill deer use a 223/556 all night long. where i live we call 223/556 our killer gun,we use them on varmints and sometimes for deer too.to be honest just a Savage s.s. 223 rifle shoots just fine to get the job done and Savage rifles cost a heck of alot less too and many times these Savage`s will out shoot a expensive rifle too.

I agree pete...

....and in Oregon, the minimum caliber, for deer, is .223. Go figure...

It appears that my slow twisted R#3 in 223 will shoot 50 gr TSXs fairly well when pushed by AA 2520

I bet those regulations were formed a long time ago now, and with enough of the right kind of lobbying, you could probably get the Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission to allow .22 caliber rifles as well. These laws have been changed in other states, such as Kansas, with no issues arising afterwards.

They only became legal here about ten years ago. I still don’t know anyone that uses a 223 . Maybe a kid does.

A few years ago, I bought a Tikka Compact 223 for a truck gun. Ended up letting a great-nephew use it for a deer rifle, and he killed his first deer with at 6 years of age. He fell in love with the rifle, so I sold it to them and he's killed several more with it.....all one shot kills. I'm still not a huge fan of it on deer, primarily because there are too many people who own one, who have no idea what the difference is in bullets. Using a good bullet, it'll work okay, using the wrong one, and it's a poor choice.

60 - 64 gr have done great for me. 17 deer, from 70 - 250 yards. 60gr Barnes HP is my favorite. 64gr Win is good, too.

Let my buddy's 8yo son use my rifle, for his first hunt. Took his deer with 1 shot, through the neck, @ 235 yards. Dropped where it stood, 64 gr Win PSP.

My 9yo Grandson took his first deer, last season. 210 yards, dropped in it's tracks. 30 minutes later, 140 hog @ 155 yards, using 60 gr Barnes HP.

Shot placement is 90% of the equation. IMHO

I don't shoot boolets over 64 gr, not accurate in my rifle.
I found a box of 40 gr FMJ, same bullet used in .22WMRF.
Loaded them to 2000 fps for varmints. A .22 Supermag, blast to shoot and quiet. My pellet rifle is louder.

the 62 grain TSX over TAC or factory 62 grain fusion, I tried the 75 grain scirroco but its no better and my guns did not shoot it as well.

An old timer I know took 22-250 cases and primed them, and & seated a 22 pellet on top. He said it was super quiet.