My friend shot a WT doe the other day at a measured 20 yards broadside. Shot hit, and ruined, the liver. Deer expired shortly. Factory 140 Powershoks. Wondering why no passthrough. Thoughts?

Shot 20 more deer and I bet you will normally get pass through.

1 deer isn't much of a test but sure can sour a person on something in a hurry.

Bullets can and do weird things.

Close range will test a bullet.

That same shot might pass through 19 times out of 20, but nothing is for certain every time. Did he look at the recovered bullet?

More velocity equals less penetration. In a Handloader Magazine .308 diameter bullet test article that I have of 180 grain .308 diameter bullets through a measured medium any bullet on the chart penetrated much less at 3100 fps than the same bullet at 1500 fps. Just taking the Remington pointed Core-Lokt as an example, at 3100 fps the bullets penetrated an average of 11.5 inches with shed cores. At 1500 fps those same bullets penetrated 33 inches and didn't even expand. There is a linear progression of decreased expansion and increased penetration as the bullet velocity decreased. It is important to pick right bullet for the cartridge and the most likely impact velocity.

I seldom recover bullets shot into deer but I like mid rang or heavier weight for caliber bullets.

just got back from a goose hunt in Montana and was in the bar for supper and ya a beer or two was drank .started talkin to some deer hunters and this young boy around 12 stood there listening so asked him how his day went. he was excited to answer me he started by saying he made a perfect shoot with his 7mm-08 and in his eye`s that was the greatest cartridge ever invented. my 30 year old son said: i have a 7mm-08 too and thats what i started with too great cartridge . i told this young boy that around 20 years i made some money shootin a 7mm-08 for a few winters target shooting ,that young man`s chest got a little bigger and was he excited happy grin`n ear to ear. yes a 7mm-08 is a great cartridge and very accurate but not all bullets go thru a deer always in any cartridge.

Well, we never found the bullet in the rumen. Thinking it may have disintegrated. FWIW I prefer passthroughs. On the same seat 2 days earlier I shot a big doe with a 9.3x62 and 285 gr rn bullets. Hole hrough left front leg, chest, and almost same size hole through right front leg. She went a little bit just driving on rear legs. What a will to live in those critters sometimes.

I didn't know bullets disintegrated?

Only from a 7mm-08.



P

Uh, velocity?

I had similar results at a similar range on a mule deer, back in 1986.....using a 300 grain Sierra SPBT from a .375 H&H at approximately 2600 fps mv. It’s well documented that these bullets were “crapola” in their early offerings. Sometimes it’s merely a “fluke”, sometimes is a “piss poor” bullet design! Many bullets are recognized as “quick opening, rapid expansion” bullets with fragmentation, or jacket separation advertised. My opinion, use these for varmints.....big game deserve more respect! memtb

Thanks for the heads up....

My son shot one a few days ago with a 30-06 and 150gr hornady interlock and it didn’t exit either. 50yd shot. 20yd death run.

It happens.

Sometimes bullets just do strange things. As long as they kill sufficiently its all good. I've never caught one in 7-08. Once when hunting with my daughter I shot a 6 pt NC smallish buck at about 25 yrs broadside with a 30-06. Entered the heart and came to rest in the hind quarter just beneath the hide. Was pretty surprised to find that bullet.

I've never caught a rifle bullet. My son caught a few.

I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to your Son, Dave.

Son Poked a Hole in Doe Yesterday Evening.. With 7MM -06AI Running The 120 B.T At 3190. FPS. He Shot Her At 82 Yds.. I've Always Been Well Pleased With The 120's. I've Killed Over 50 Deer With The 7-08 Along With Several Hogs. Few Bears And Lot Of Other Things.. This One Left A Pretty Good Hole... Said She Looked Like She Was Struck By Lightening..

tzone, I started a topic once on one of these forums asking what bullets from which cartridges have been stopped in a deer and the 150 grain bullet out of an '06 or .308 had more than a few this happened to me examples. I used 165's out of mine from then on and never stopped one.

I've found a few from the odd-6 and one from a .280 Rem. One was a core-lokt, 2 were Federal Fusion. All mushroomed perfectly. One on a raking shot, the other two were broadside. All of them were 50 yards and in.

Windfall,

All of the bullets from the 06 I posted about above were 165gr, except the one Jack used on Saturday. I like to run 165's in my 30 cals. The .280 was a 140gr Federal Fusioin at about 30 feet from a 7600.

I can't fault those shots, or bullets. They were all close range shots. The .280 rem was pretty much full bore muzzle velocity.

--- For close to 30 years now my main rifles for buck hunting have been .308. Short action carbines ,bolt action. Perfect for Northeast Woods. I had a chance to buy one of it's sons- a Remington Model 7 ss 7-08 fairly cheap. I often said-- What will a 7-08 do that a .308 can't ? --- The last two bucks I've shot with a rifle has been with that 7-08
----- Hornady SST. The first buck double lunged @ 30 yds. ran 40 yds and flopped . I always check the blood trail to see the results of the shot. Very very little blood and found a very small exit hole opposite the entrance. The second buck was shot a week ago in Vermont. At 50 yds. I took him at the base of the neck. Never took a step. Small entrance wound as expected . No exit . SST smashed the neck bone turned down to the opposite side top shoulder through the cartilage and the copper mushroom was found just under the hide. I find so far that the son is following in the footsteps of his father. I'm sure a different type projo. would result in more of an exit wound. --- Web

No worries. I never sensed any disrespect.

My wife shoots the 7-08 with 139 gr interlock off the shelf American Whitetail from Hornady.

So far:
- big mulie @200 yards, stumbled a step or 2 and tipped over. Pass through
- Big antelope at 110, stumbled and tipped over, pass through
- doe antelope at 170, fell on the spot (don't remember if it was a pass through)
- doe antelope at 185 quartering to, found the bullet in the back hip, nicely mushroomed. Antelope sort of stood there frozen and she put another in broadside that passed through
- doe antelope at 120, yanked the first shot, gut shot, antelope stood frozen. Second one through both shoulder blades, thing tipped up and over backwards.

I'd say they work fine.

Where was the bullet found? Under the skin on the far side? Deer and elk have amazingly elastic hides. It's not uncommon for a bullet to exit the ribs, then when it hits the far side skin, the skin stretches way out and stops it. I've had that happen many times on elk with a 270 or 30-06.

I agree to an extent with the high velocity theory but really how fast was the 140 gr factory load travelling? We do not know the gun specifics either but guessing 2800 fps or so which is not real "high" velocity. I also go heavy for caliber and my favorite in the 7-08 is a 154.

I would chalk it up to a fluke and as many others have said, the vast majority of the time, that 140 goes in and out

My question is;

How do you hit a deer that far back, from a "measured 20 yards" ?

In my experience, the dense "squishy guts", stop more bullets than thin flesh &/or even bone !

I wasn't the one who shot. However, it is my seat and I walked off 20 strides of one yard approximately each to the place where she received the bullet. We never found the bullet but then did not look very hard. Assume it was in the gut pile. My conclusion about the shooting was I wasn't the one who fired so I can't say about that. But, I think the round may have been too fast for the distance. Heck, at that range a rock may have been equally effective!

Must have been a really tough liver.

Cut right in two.

My fingers are crossed for the day I get to recover a TSX. Damn things just pass right through.

Then there were two.

I've shot a few Deer with TTSX were you had to spend a little time looking for the exit. It was there, but very small and very neat.

The ol' reliable Nosler Partition may be the perfect deer bullet.

Why, there has never been a case of a Partition not working perfectly on Deer?

Yeah, there was always a dead deer at the end of the run from Partitions. The problem being that only the folded over back half of the bullet made the exit and there wasn't much of a blood trail to follow. 7mm-08, .308, 7mm RM and .300 WM Partitions all did the same thing.

If I had to bet the farm on the performance of one particular bullet, it would be a partition, followed closely by an accubond. They've been kicking ass for over 65 years.

i'd be right with ya on those 2 raider. i judge all my game bullets on the partition/accubond.
Big Ed

Only used Partitions in a 22-250 & a 6mm. Never had a lack of blood trail from either. Most trails were as good as any other soft point I used.

Also only needed a blood trail on a few as most were DRT.

Only pic I ever took of a blood trail. 6mm with a 95 grain Partition. 25 yard shot, maybe a fuzz less. High lungs as he stepped forward at the shot. Would have been another high shoulder DRT if he had stood still.

beautiful 10gauge. i love it when the leaves turn colors in the fall..........................and red is my fav color.
Big Ed

Oh I realize that writing something disparaging against a Partition is tantamount to criticizing mothers and apple pie, but all I know is what I've seen. Absolute mush for lung tissue with a Partition, but to many where is the blood trail scenarios at last light or even good light. One of the first ones with a .300 WM 180 grain NP was real typical. About a 60 yard broadside on a 200# dressed 8 point. At the shot off he went like nothing was wrong. I thought that I might have gotten brush deflection and missed the shot completely, but the cross hairs looked perfect when the shot broke. No blood that I could find and rather dejected I fanned out in the direction he had run. About 80 yards up ahead I saw what looked like a branch, but it turned out to be his right antler. Another 10 point scuffed up leaves from a 140 NP 7mm-08, but did all his bleeding inside and that lung tissue strained through my fingers. A NP isn't a bad bullet and I'd use it before I'd use another TSX, all I'm saying is that in my experience regular cup and core Core-Lokt and Interlock bullets have given me a more dependable blood trail with much larger diameter exit wounds.

Not what I was saying but take it however you want.

Every animal reacts differently even w exact same shot placement.

Just relaying my experience on approximately 20 midwest whitetails.

The question was directed to the comment of the partition being the perfect Deer bullet. Nothing implied it wasn't good or even great.

Years ago started out with the old school Core-lokts, and admittedly they seemed to leave something to be desired in hindsight. Then the NBT's came out and Kenny Jarrett thought they were special. I used them and never found them to be lacking, even with some thinking they blew up too often. I never found them to lack as a Deer bullet. Have probably used all of the upgrades and have yet to find them to fall short.

Then went to TSX and TTSX for 10 or so Deer and a Mountain Goat. Great results again.

Accubonds next. Bunch of Deer and another Mountain Goat. Guess what? No problems.

So this year rifles are loaded with NBT's, TSX, TTSX and Accubonds. I wouldn't say any of them are the perfect Deer bullet, nor would I bet the farm they were. However, I don't think any would have to play second fiddle to a Partition. And after 65 years, I would hope they had something figured out.

Used a bunch of different bullets in the 7-08 and .284 Win. The two bullets I liked most in the 7-08 were the 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip and the 120 TTSX.

The NBT gave quarter to golf ball size exits on deer and Pronghorn while that TTSX gave nickel-size exits on elk.

If I ever get another 7mm-08, these will be the only two bullets I’ll load for it.

Nosler's had the partition thing figured out since it's inception, which is why every other manufacture has tried to duplicate it's performance ever since. Some have succeeded, many have not. Outside of long range killing, which makes up a miniscule % of the hunting public, I do consider the partition the consumate deer bullet.

I've killed loads of game with the 120 BT launched from a 7-08. It kills so well I've never had the desire to try the TTSX in the same weight. This, and the 140 AB/partition have accounted for a slew of animals.

By your estimation some have succeeded in duplicating its performance. Which means, by your definition, it has equals when it comes to a Deer bullet.

For myself, I’ll have no hesitation in going with the NBT, Accubond and TTSX. And like you, they work so well I have little inclination to use a Partition.

One of the"problems" I've seen of judging bullets, whether in blood trails or that nebulous something called "killing power," is that many hunters lack the experience or judgment to notice that placement affects both. I'm not talking about bad shots, but bullets landing above the chest centerline (which results in late-starting blood leakage) or placement involving at least some bone in one of what are often called the "front shoulders."

Kind of amazed at the trail this one left. Shot in top 3rd of the lungs and the blood trail was instant.

Those pics are all within the first 5 feet from where he was standing when I shot.

Bullet hole shown is entrance. Exit may have been an inch lower, maybe 2".

perfect execution 10gauge. no meat lost there and i bet he didn't run super far either.i'm not surprised that he started leaking blood almost instantly. that snot super high being about half way up and not too far behind the shoulder either. i'd call that almost perfect unless you are trying for drt/hi axle shot...
Big Ed

Maybe a 50-60 yard death run.


I usually try to hit em.about 8" farther forward for no tracking job.