There seems to be a general consensus amongst the Rag writers that the Ruglin's are the second coming of Christ. Compared to the trash Remlin was shipping out the doors, anything was an improvement. But now that I've had a chance to put my hands on a few different guns, I'm feeling pretty "meh" about them, and certainly not give up any of my JM's for one. They rant about "smoothness" and tighter tolerances. I'm not feeling it. I hate the "chrominess" of the bolt, and the shiny "black plum" laminated stock I think is hideous. And the red Bulleye, while I can appreciate the homage, makes it look like something from Playschool IMO.

I fear they are gonna go the route of the 1911's. First ones out were not bad. Followed by years of so so. But this "not bad" era seems to be lacking already.

Feelings?

I have only have Remington Marlins and JM stamped Marlins, well a Mossberg too.
I’ve had troubles with a Marlin 39 A feeding. It’s at a gunsmith.
I’ve had troubles with a Remington Marlin 45-70 the loading gate dropped -a problem when feeding the cartridge slow.
I’ve had troubles with a Mossberg with the clamp that holds the feed tube. I replaced it with a Marlin clamp.

Fit and finish is a half a dozen of one vs 6 of the other regarding Remington vs. JM. The Mossberg shoots well, the stock is birch the tube clamp was weak.

The accuracy on each seems to be very good. I’m not sure if one brand is better than another.

When the Ruger Marlins come to a reasonable price I’ll buy one. I think their prices are too high right now.

Interesting. As bad as I want to I have not been able to get one in my hands to examine it yet

I've handled at least a dozen of the Ruger stainless/laminates so far and can't detect any major difference between the three "vintages". I'll have a better opinion after I see one of the new walnut/blued 336s in the flesh. I personally wish they'd have gone back to uncheckered wood. Those uncheckered Marlins of my childhood just looked so much better to my eyes.

You and me both. I doubt I'll ever buy one of the Rugerlins, though if they were ever to chamber the 1894 in .327 Fed. I'd be tempted.

I think the difference is how they function.

Too many complained about function of the Remington built Marlins. I think if they were disassembled and deburred/polished and tuned up they were okay.

My buds boy had a big loop laminated 45-70 that wouldn't feed correctly about 75% of the time, factory loads and handloads. Something told me the back of the loading gate was rough or timing was off.

He swapped it for an older long barrel model and both parties are happy.

Has Ruger deleted the stupid QR code etching from the side of the Marlin receivers??

Still didn't hear what twist they are doing on 44s

I've had the opportunity to hunt and shoot one of the last year's JM 336 to come from Marlin. I hate to say it but it is truly a budget gun based on it's build. It came from the factory with pitting in the barrel and the lever is not smooth to run at all. In fact, the lever screw has a habit of loosening with use. The wood is meh at best with fit and finish being mediocre. Growing up, I look at the Marlin levers as "starter guns". Cheap and readily available. I have to believe that modern improvements and new machinery on the line will make for a better made firearm.

The lever screws have always loosened with use. That's why they make screwdrivers and Loc-Tite

Affordable, not good used car prices, and in old school chamberings. Then I'd buy.

Not to offend JM lovers, but the rifles from Remington look a lot nicer.

I've read that the last production Marlins were assembled with what ever parts were over.

yeah, I loved the big gaps where the butt stocks were supposed to butt against the receiver, the forends cut off square where they met the receiver, the canted sights, improperly indexed barrels, poorly sanded and finished stocks, fuzzy, indistinct checkering with nothing resembling a sharp diamond and sharp edges on the levers of those Remlins. Honestly I just don't know how the fugg some people judge quality but the Remlins weren't it. Since Ruger rarely builds a firearm with their own name on it that doesn't have issues, I don't expect the Ruglins to be a big improvement over the Remlins.

As others have posted ^ ^ ^ ^

Won't be paying $1000 and up myself

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...o-get-blue-laminate.cfm?gun_id=102193088

Mossberg 472 was not a Marlin product.

O.k., let"s take up a collection for Bugger. He's obviously blind with no sense of feeling. 🤣

That's because no 1894's yet. But micro groove is gone for sure.

How did the Ruglin's shoot for you? Thanks.

At price points over $1000, I just can’t get that enthusiastic about Marlins, anymore. Guess I’m officially becoming an “old fart”. I guess a price point of $600-$800 is expecting too much, these days. Just bought too many 39’s, 336’s, and 1894’s in the $200-$500 price range, even up until 2-3 years ago, to feel the urge...

No different than when we used to give $350-450 for a walnut/blued bolt action.

Now you can't get one of the bargain rifles for that.

A lot more parts, pieces and fitting on one of these levers than a bolt.


Not hard to spend $800+ on a bolt gun these days. I would have no problem giving $900-1k for a well made, well fitted lever.

Same here

I still spend $350 to $500 on some of my bolt guns. Just did it the other day in fact..


That one looks like brand new. Not a mark on it and I don't think it was fired outside of the factory. I put an end to that schidt though..

At the risk of being roasted on here I just want to say a Marlin built by Remington or Ruger is not a Marlin.
It is a copy of a Marlin.
It is not bad thing I guess. Who doesn’t like a nice lever rifle. They might be better or worse than a Marlin, but they will never be a Marlin made in North Haven Ct.
I know, I’m an old fuddy-duddy. But facts are facts. Real Marlins are out there for purchase. Here’s one I’ve had for a while. 1895 .45-70. Good rifle.

😁

I was never enthusiastic about any marlin lever gun, made by anybody. I've owned a marlin 256 win mag, a .444 marlin, and a stainless marlin in 44 mag.

All were sold. Why carry a heavy rifle with a weak action that can't handle modern bolt action pressures? Heavy rifle, low pressure cartridges, limited range? Marlins aren't some sort of early frontier icon, worthy of collectors status. I'll never understand it.

It's crazy, these prices for any marlin. I paid $875 for a new in box browning 95 in 30-06 a few years back. Rebored/rechambered to my 41-9.3x62 wildcat, it was turned into a carbine with scout scope. Exactly 8.5 lbs scoped,it launched 350 grain swift a-frame spitzers in the 2300-2350fps range.

Now that levergun was worth carrying and keeping. Not these poser fkn Walmart brand Marlins with the stoopid large lever loops and goofy scout rails.

Marlins should be the pay less shoes of the lever gun world, and priced similarly as well.

Very nice, like the loupy too.

Ok, Lol.

Troll elsewhere.

He’s not trolling, he’s speaking from experience. One of his rifles probably gets used harder in a season on the river than most L48 guys’ whole safe full sees in a lifetime.

Marlins are not and have never been particularly strong or good for really rough service. They have several internal parts that are not overly stout and it’s just due to how they’re engineered to work, just the way it is.

They also are not and have not ever been the near Holland and Holland quality in materials, fit, or finish that the “JM” fan club makes them out to be.

I’ve personally seen and handled laughably poor examples of Marlin lever rifles in pretty much every caliber and from every era of manufacture from the 1940’s through 2015. I’ve also handled many examples from the same eras that were good workable usable and reliable rifles, but none that were a truly finely fit and finished piece.

Marlins were never intended to be a truly finely fit and finished piece. They were a blue collar working mans gun and until recently priced accordingly. Quality, fit and finish was as good as anything in their price range and they were plenty strong enough for the cartridges they were chambered for and designed to handle. Of course Marlin put out some lemons over the years. So has every other manufacturer. Lord knows I've seen plenty of train wrecks from Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Savage and others that should never have left the factory. I would choose a good example of a Marlin over a Winchester/Browning 1895 for my hunting every day ending in "Y". Why ? Because grizzly bears are nothing I need to deal with and the cartridges and effective range of a Marlin suit my hunting style and territory just fine. That damned ugly magazine hanging down under the belly of the 1895 gets in the way of the one hand carryability that is one of the main reasons for choosing a traditional lever over a bolt. Add a forward mounted scope to that 1895 and it looks about as goofy as Herman Munster riding a tricycle. The fuggin things are ugly enough without adding insult to injury.

I would agree with all of that. I just see constantly people saying that the older Marlins were something they weren’t. Like you said, they were an affordable blue collar deer gun.

As far as the prices, yes they’re much higher than they used to be, but what isn’t? Used to be able to buy a stripped down work truck for cheap too, now they’re $50k.

I doubt we ever see a Marlin at anything approaching old time prices again. But I also wouldn’t be surprised at all to see Ruger produce rifles of the same or better quality than the JM guns.

Do you feel the same way about Winchester 94's? Are they worse or better?

Certainly the Marlins are good enough for the vast majority of us that don't need to use them in the fashion that river hunting in AK requires.
Up to you to decide on what you need, or don't need.

Marlins work really well in Louisiana. I've got 2 from the 50's and one from the 70's that ain't fell apart yet. Hunted with the 35 from 55 this season. Have a williams peep with a .065 thick front sight that is the cat's meow for the swamps and thickets when ground hunting. 212 gr. RCBS pattern around 11 BN hardness works pretty good on deer and hogs, even big hogs.

Thutty-thutty Marlin 336, it was my starter deer rifle, good one for any young boy, or good'ol boy.
Happy to trade it in on a thutty-aught-six Ruger M77 roundtop that still shoots like a house afire.
Wish I had kept that 39A twenty-two, the only Marlin that would interest me nowadays.

I had 2 of those. Once I started messing with the second one I remembered why I sent the first one down the road.

Take most of what is posted on this site lightly.
Some good info but lots of Trolls and haters looking for arguments.

Then get off the Marlin board. Take your fluffer too.

I don’t know who you refer to as my fluffer, funny you jump straight to the homo stuff when your ox is gored.

I merely offered a possible counterpoint to your obvious bullshiet post about the new rifles you’ve never handled or seen in person. I still hope Ruger builds a nice rifle whether you think it’s a “Marlin” or not.

But party on with the fist bumps and speculation about rifles you’ve never seen.

The Remington's look better than JM Marlins to my eye.

The Marlins are Plain Jane, I think, but better than the Mossberg as far as looks go. The Marlins are accurate and were a good rifle for the money. My 336 Waffle top 30-30 is at a smith due to not firing about every 5th round. A common problem according to that Smith. My 39 had feeding issues, now fixed. My model 57 22 I had when I was young was accurate, but had a horrendous trigger pull. My 336 35 Remington has had zero mechanical problems.

The 30-30 336 is more accurate than my Win 94, but the 94 is better handling and perhaps accurate enough for the range it is designed for. My Winchester 64 was about a 1 1/2 to 2 MOA rifle with the best loads and as accurate as the 336 30-30, I suppose. The Winchesters (92, 94, 64, & 86) have had zero mechanical problems. The Mossberg is accurate, but I had to change out the magazine to barrel holder. I've not tested the Remington's for accuracy yet. The Remington's have a safety that I'd like to throw away. My Win 92 is perhaps the most accurate lever gun I have ever owned.

I think that telling my experiences with the JM Marlins vs. Mossberg, Winchester and Remington are my experiences. If you JM lovers hate to hear someone's experiences, too bad. I'd like to think this forum isn't just for JM worshippers.

I've had 12 336's, 1 model 1936, 2 1895's, and one Marlin 1894. Two were Remlins. And I've had 10 Winchester 94's.
I've pretty much had good luck with all. One JM 336 broke a firing pin due to being fired in 15 below zero weather. I bought a Remlin 336 that had to go back to Remington and was ultimately replaced due to the barrel being indexed wrong. I had one Winchester 94 that had feeding problems. That's about it

I feel the same way as the OP. Meh and severely overpriced. I'll take a JM anyday!

Well, nice you ran to his side to protect him, 👬 but he was trolling. You don't jump into a discussion about Mustang's and Camero's and open with "well my hand built Bugatti" unless you're trolling, or have a pathetically small dick.

Can someone get Bugger an eye doctor? And a sense of touch??

[quote=Bugger]. My 336 Waffle top 30-30 is at a smith due to not firing about every 5th round. A common problem according to that Smith.
/quote]

Care to share that "Smith's" name ?

Never heard it, read it, experienced it, had some one bring in to repair for it, in 60 years.

Love to talk to this "Smith" about this "Common problem"

A "fluffer" is the broad that keeps the male actors ready for their next scene. YOU were the one that went to homosexuality ! 😉

Self incrimination is a bitch, but at least your out of the closet.

Point of order, this is a Marlin 336 Board. No ?

The loading gate is a piece of spring steel held by a machine screw. If it dropped, the screw backed out. It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with how slow or fast you fed the cartridge in. Do you just make stuff up?

The more I read from Bugger leads me to believe he's a shut in poser who probably has never owned a single gun in his life.

Yes qr replaced with RM ser. #

Haven't shot one. Wouldn't buy one, and no try before buy offered.

Who would buy a new gun with pitting? Hand it back, "get me another" or walk.

Put down the crackpipe….. JM Marlins are the GOAT

Kid, seen , held, operated actions, as stated. Haven't fired. As stated. Do you read? Or just make [bleep] up?


Still waiting on that phone number Bugger? How we doing on that?

Still waiting on that 'Smiths phone number Bug?

I'ld really like to talk with them.

What was the last year ? With the move, and parts clean up, does anyone really know? I'm sure there are JM barrels with Tramp Stamp receivers out there.

Hit a small gun show yesterday. Boy the more I get to see, feel, touch these Ruglin's the less and less I like them. Yo Ruger! The purpose of laminate is to get contrast. Strength and color. You laminate 60 1/16" strips all dark PURPLE ! Might just as well paint a chunk of birch, and call it a day. PURPLE ? What happened to Black and Grey?
Then you plug that hideous Red Bullseye on it. Looks like a Pimple on a Section 8 girls fat ass.

Ouch

As it turns out that was the problem however you’re wrong regarding how fast or slow I worked the action.


As far as some Marlins not firing every now and then, it is a known problem, but likely not to those with your knowledge. My gunsmith fixed in my waffle top 30-30. He said that for his Marlin he made a permanent change so that he didn’t have to close the action hard. But since you claim to be all knowledgable I’d think you might if known that.
Fact is RAM you are a blowhard - full of yourself and way to high opinion of you bleak knowledge. GFY

Give the phone number of your "Gun Smith" you lying bloviating gas bag.

You've been exposed for what you are. So now, instead of complying with a polite request, your gonna swear via initials at me? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

What are you? Six. Try the Sesame Street board.

Oh and YOU were the one that brought up speed of loading.

You weave so many lies, you can't remember them all. Pathetic. Get a life. Reach out to your local mental health providers.

RAM you ignorant pussy. GFY.

Entertaining thread !

I'm not a JM lover or a Winchester lover, but I wanted a levergun.
I grabbed one of the last 1895 Remlins.
It now has a Skinner Alaskan peep and is very accurate.
Furniture, metal work fit/finish is all excellent.
Has the traditional diamond pattern checkering.

Maybe Remington got a few of them right ?

The later Remlins were generally ok. It was the first few years of production where you tended to encounter disasters on the rack.

Sad to see this thread has turned into yet another personal attack thread between a couple of people.

Marlin has always made good blue color rifles and i believe the original Marlins have a little higher resale now too . Remlins did have some problems so i never purchased any even the last Remington rifles before this last time Remington was sold again those rifles were nothing special either. now that Ruger purchased the Marlin line i expect a lot better rifle again like the old original Marlins were . i have only seen a couple but never shot any yet but they look good , i have lost all faith these days on the newer Remington rifles i won`t hunt big game anymore with a newer Remington rifle either , give me a Winchester , Ruger , Weatherby , old real Marlin or a Browning i have no problems with these fine rifle brands ! and probably the new Ruglins too ? Pete53

Is that the best you got? REALLY?

Your a pathetic poser, an "internet big man" and now everyone knows it. Full of more sh*t than a porta potty.

What will you do now with no one to read the lies you fed them, just to feed your own sick twisted ego so that you can keep from killing yourself, with the illusion you had some semblance of a life.

Go back to your old life, in a corner, in the dark, in a puddle of piss, scuffing your carrot raw till you pass out from exhaustion. Your nothing, and never will be.

Its really a shame you lack the stones to off yourself, others elsewhere will be exposed to your drivel .

Sorry W. We are forced into a Country of lies and fantasy.

Didn't see the need of it here. My hippocracy only goes so far.

So W, I missed your your post on Ruglin's? Just the one on the drama. Are you the Pot or the Kettle?

RAM go back to your baby crib and go [bleep] yourself. You gotta be the stupidest member on the fire. At least you’re the most ignorant in Marlins.
GFY

Still waiting for that phone number Poser. C'mon its a business #, no need to hide it.

Post SOMETHING true. Everything is false. You could be a Bud Light influencer.

You should change your moniker to Devon.

Bugger, the best thing to do with RAM is that little button called ignore!! Push it. You forgot more than he will ever know. It is not worth your time.

I’ll take your advice. Thanks

RAM, I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but TheKid has repaired and built hundreds of Marlin lever actions and many dozens of other rifles, for many years here in Alaska.

He's seen it all, across all vintage of Marlin.

Is "theKid" , "Devon's 'Smith" ?
Should a 'lil trickle of piss be running down my leg? Cuz it ain't happening.

Can't be too famous. I never heard of him. What's his Business name and contact info. I really would love to hear about this "common problem" and I'll go one million better. Doesn't have to be just waffle tops. Round bolt, square bolt whatever back to 1893.

Same for his BS about 1895 loading gate issue from allegedly " loading too fast"


Everything "Devon" claimed his 'Smith backed up was 100% bullshite. He's a pathetic Poser who apparently has touched your heart.

You wanna caution a Liar? Your calling out the wrong guy.

Yo, WomanYoteHunter, do you have warm cookies and milk to go with that participation ribbon your giving to Devon? Maybe a blank blank and a nook too ?

What a pathetic lot we got here. No wonder China is kicking our ass.

The truth is never afraid or changes. If you care to answer for Devon. Show where I've lied? Answer the simple questions Devon has refused for near a month. Or are you too just a whinny poser? Probably both accounts are Devon's so he can bloviate to himself, shut in Poser that he is. My god, that would really be pathetic.

You are an a##hole. Go back to the hole you crawled out of.

No truth. Just name calling. You must be "The Mean Girls" ?

Perhaps Card carrying members of the DNC? ?

You have nothing to refute the truth so you resort to name calling and Cancel culture.

How do you not slice your worthless throats when you shave in the morning?

Oh wait, my bad. The razor is at your bikini line.

As to pricing, I bought a new Model 70 Featherweight when I was in college, 2003, for an even $600. Was at Bass Pro the other day, same exact rifle (with much more plain wood), $1049. 80% price increase in 20 years.

What a vile POS

No Thekid is not Devon Smith.

That's Devon's 'Smith (gun smith) read it again⁹

That's Devon's 'Smith (gun smith)
I know, the both of them. Glad you agree.

Marlins, Winchesters, hell Sharpe's, they've all been there, done that. Hawkin's before that. You don't NEED a magical rifle to "river hunt". Its like watching Deadliest Catch or Orange Cnty Choppers around here. Drama drama drama There you go, speaking of manufactured drama, the Alaskan Squaw? From TV what's she use??? And old Smelly in .303 Brit and an SKS .

Bugger is a good guy in my book.

I think the marlin can have issues with the two piece firing pin.

Also the hammer spring tension can weaken.

I hope Ruger does well with the Marlin Name. As I own ruger shares and wanna make some money.

Could you share with us all what you feel that Issue is? Does this issue exist with the other makers using a 2 piece FP also? If no, why do you suppose that is?

A spring is a wear item. Of course its going to weaken over time. But thats a good thing. Since probably the single most popular first "tweak" is a reduced power hammer spring for many Marlin owners. Would not most agree?

I would figure overtime if they wear out similar design firearms would wear out.

The newer ones aren’t wore out yet…….

They B newer…..

Give ‘em time..,

I really find it interesting how butt hurt people get over debating their choice in firearms.

Kinda like apples 🍎 to oranges 🍊

Or chocolate 🍫 versus vanilla?

Kinda silly?

No?


Let’s compare firearms to ponies.,..

U can meow about this breed or that

Mare versus gelding

Meow meow meow

But a real hand tries to get along with all he can

So he don’t have to be a foot.

I think a true rifle man is similar

Tries to understand and get along with most.


Limits the whining

Appreciates what they are

???? WTF ? Your "explaination" is opposite your complaint two posts up? Bipolar9?

No one is debating brands of guns. This is a Marlin board.. Do you have a disability?
Perhaps someone can get you some help. At least get your TDD machine fixed so you don 't triple space everything


Push the little button for your nurse. Please.



i

TR4I


( Thanks Rick 4 Ignore)

Dude, you came to the Party supporting an idiot. Your offered nothing to support the positions you said you were backing.
When asked to do so, you responded nonsensical for one point, and 180° opposite of your position prior.

Your response to that? Employ Cancel Culture, under the advice from another Mean Girl who PM'd you. No discussion, no education, God forbid you learn anything. No, pick up your marbles and leave. Christ I hope you at least got nice tits.

No wonder this Country is doomed. Its flush with ignorant testosterone lacking nancy boy lemmings.

No, it's doomed because the people have lost respect, decency, and civility. Your post is exhibit A

Respect is earned, not granted. Again, yet another who adds nothing to the conversation, but is more than willing to kick and run.


,

RAM, if you haven't seen some of the issues with the various marlin rifles, could only mean you have little to no experience actually hunting with them in a harsh environment.


I'm curious, other than being a fkn city boy mouth piece, what makes you some sort of authority on really any rifle??

You know not about what you speak. Your embarrassing your self by documenting your ignorance. READ ALL the posts before you comment. Then come back and apologize if you have any character. You REALLY don't realized how far your foot is down your throat. No doubt your curious. Your [bleep]' clueless

Don't deflect. Don't make me repeat myself.

What type of experience do you have with ANY hunting rifle? Any vintage of Marlin levergun?

What? You think the "gotcha" question wins it for you? There's nothing I can say, no resume' I could list that you would honor so why play your silly game. You must be a child. Or a Democrat to converse that way.
Its really amazing how rather than answering a simple direct question of "how" , you jugheads want deflect by questioning my credentials. If you read all the threads you would know this.

An idiiot here made a couple of claims on Marlin's design. In the interest of truth, and him with nothing to back or base his statement on. I asked for him to explain, and here we are.He claimed his "Gun Smith" supported his claims. I asked, hell I begged for the 'Smiths name and phone number .He or those running to hold his hand never presented any evidence. They just started the personal attacks like catty kunz in a beauty parlor.

No. I'm pretty sure he is just a running mouth who is tethered to his couch

I bought my first Marlin 336 in 1979 and have owned a half dozen over the years since. None have given me any trouble. The one I have now has been hunted every year since I purchased it used in 1998 and while I haven't beaten any grizzlies to death with it or used it to paddle a conoe or drive tent stakes it has been hunted in rain, sleet, snow and sub zero temps without issue. I have put a lot of rounds through it over the years and it has accounted for a sizeable pile of deer in my hands. I have a safe full of scoped bolt action rifles but the Marlin has been and still is my most used deer rifle.

My son handled the new 336 this past weekend. He said he would rather have it than a JM anyday. He said the fit and finish was great

12700 posts. That's a running mouth tethered to a chair. I'd say. You both should read before you post. Your embarrassing yourselves

if any Marlin was priced at its actual value they would all cost about 350 bucks

It works out to 2.69 posts per day. Not very difficult to maintain

The only idiot on this thread is you, ram... get over yourself geezus what is wrong with people.

I agree that JM stamped Marlin prices are out of sight. I have a couple Remington Marlins that in every way “look better” than the old Marlins. I don’t know much about them because I’ve not shot one near as much as the old Marlins. But I will. One’s in 44 Mag and the other is in 45-70. It’s the 45-70 I’ve been shooting a lot lately.
I would not have put my 35 Remington JM up for sale, except the prices for them have gone past their value to me. I really like it but for the money they were going for - bye bye.
As far as accuracy my waffle top 30-30 is amazingly accurate. The only issue I had with it was the firing pin assembly getting worn and the part that ensures the lever is up all the way stopped the firing pin to strike the primer some of the time. That’s not good for a hunting rifle or a rifle used in a lever action silhouette match.
A good gun smith is fixing the problem.

As far as someone finding themselves in a deep dark hole, my advice is to stop digging. You’re not doing yourself any favors.

'Meh' is pretty much how I feel about Marlin lever guns. The only niche I see for Marlin is as handy bear defense gun in cal like .45-70. I do not live in bear country. Why did these become all the rage? Have you given in to the fact that hi-cap semi-auto rifles will be restricted in the United States? In that role lever gun chambered for handgun cartridge would make a great deal of sense.

I think with action work by the likes of Jim Brockman,
( knowledgeable skilled gunsmiths) .

The ease of scoping the weapon.

The simplicity of the action.

It makes for a winner.

My personal favorite model is the 93 SC.

Surprised how the Henry is not held in a higher regard.

I wouldn't trade my old JM Marlin .30-30 for two Ruglins. Not just because of all the good memories of bucks brought to bag either but because it runs slicker than oil on an ice cube and punches out nice, tidy little 3/4" 100 yard groups over and over, year after year. Always brings a smile to my face when I bench it before the season to affirm zero. Damn thing thinks it's a bolt action. In fact, it's more accurate than a good many bolt action rifles, including my own Ruger 77 .30-06. Screw the finish, lotta mechanical turds out there with a nice finish.. I'm gonna rub that off and pock it with dents and scratches given time anyway.

What did I say that was untrue?

Name your issues Piss Flaps and lets discuss them. Don't throw out a meaningless blanket of nothing. You keep trying to push words I never said into my mouth, while denying those out of yours. Grow up, try to be a man, and lets have a discussion. I would LOVE to start with the first two issues from the panty waist poser who left once his ignorance was exposed.