A fella was telling me that Marlin made some experimental 336 rifles in .250 Savage with spiral magazines so that the spiter bullets did not rest against the primer of the cartridge in front. He said that they could not get the guns to feed properly and dropped the experiment.

Does anyone know if this is fact or is it just an interesting story?

Would be an interesting rifle if it worked though.

thanks

DN

A customer of mine from VA told me that he owns an experimental Marlin 336 in 250-3000 with a spiral magazine, similar to the Remington 14/141 series. I've never seen it, but I have no reason to doubt of his word, so I believe it to be true.

Jeff

The rifle he owns has to be the one owned by L. R. Wallack (sp?). He wrote about it in a late '70's or early '80's American Rifleman and said the reason Marlin dropped it was due to extraction difficulties. Wallack said the rifle had no problem with pressure, just extraction. It has been awhile since I read the article but I dont remeber a mention of the spiral magazine tube!

Edit: Well the old story of the blind hog applies here. I walked right to the article this morning. The July 1978 issue of the American Rifleman has an article entitles "Marlin 336: The other Lever Action" by L. R. Wallack.

On page 35 Wallack says that he owned the prototype Marlin 336 chambered for .250 Savage. He says the rifle shot well with factory ammunition and equivalent handloads. Wallack does indeed say the rifle has a spiral tube magazine. I had forgotten that!! The rifle was made in the early 1970's. Lack of primary extraction was the reason the idea was dropped'

Here's a qoute to back information on the 250Savage in a Marlin 336 rifle.

In the 1983 issue of Handloader #105 Sept-Oct issue, Layne Simpson was writing an article on the then new 307 and 356 Winchesters and while discussing the possible ways of improving the 307&356 he mentions the Marlin 336 built in .250-3000Savage.
"Another possibility is the use of a spiral-type magazine tube, like those on the old Remington Model 14 and 141 pump rifles, to keep bullet tips away from primers. Marlin once built several Model 336 rifles in .250-3000Savage with this kind of magazine, and it might be a good idea to pull such a concept down off the shelf and dust it off."

JDW

Marlin made spiral magazine tube lever guns in 219 zipper as well... not all Zippers came that way but some did....

Sounds from reading this thread that the .307 and 356 probably came about not because of the need for a safe blunt bullet, but rather that the rims were needed for extraction which would have nixed the parent cartridges.

I suspect the rim on the .307/.356 had a lot to do with the ability of the M-94 to work the cases through the magazine. The cartridge stop on the link is pretty sensitive to rim diameter.
The .250 Savage tapers .054" form the base to the shoulder. The .307/.308 tapers .016" form base to shoulder. I suspect the straighter case wall helped extraction the most.
I think the slightly Improved .250 Savage because of its smaller case capacity, would work well in both models of lever action rifle and provide an interesting increase in performance.

I don't guess that a spirial magazine can be retrofitted to a 336 rifle. There must have been some internal differences in the action for the rifle to feed from this spirial magazine. How complicated would it be for a smith to make up a spirial magazine? Seems this would open up a lot of different caliber possibilities.

Please note that the M336 is also made in .35 Remington, which is a rimless cartridge. It works very well.
Bandukwallah

The extractor for the 336 works as well for the rimless 35 Remington as it does for any of the rimmed cartridges. I don't know why Marlin didn't sell the 336 in 250-3000, maybe for the same reason that they dropped the 336ER so quickly, not enough market volume to make it worth their effort.

Jeff

Quote : Sounds from reading this thread that the .307 and 356 probably came about not because of the need for a safe blunt bullet, but rather that the rims were needed for extraction which would have nixed the parent cartridges.

Quote: Please note that the M336 is also made in .35 Remington, which is a rimless cartridge. It works very well.



Yes, but these cartridges are named ".307 Winchester" and ".356 Winchester," not .307 Marlin.... they were designed by Winchester to work in the Model 94 and to offer better ballistics than the .30-30 or .35 Remington.

Actually the .307 Win. was designed to offer similar performance to the .308 Win. and the .356 Win. was designed to closely match the .358 Win. They were loaded to lower pressures than the "parent" cartridges to make them safe in the 94.

The 307 and 356 operate at the same 52,000 cup as the 308 and 358.

I know a gentleman that rebarreled his Remington 760 to a .250 Savage. He said it made an excellent deer rifle.

260Remguy

I found the picture of the .250 Savage Marlin in use and posted it on the beartooth forum.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?p=344410#post344410

Having restored a junker Remington M14, I know that it is possible to find spiral magazines in the various calibers. I also believe it would not be too difficult to fit one of those mags to a M336. I will check the magazine (for a .32 Rem) that I have and see what the possibilities are.

You would have to use RN bullets and IMO your pushing the string pretty darn hard if you load it anywhere near max. The Marlins are great guns but not intended to shot some rounds, and the 250 is one of those IMO.

I don't know why you don't see more of it.. but I know Mike Bellm here in town and see his work on T/Cs and Encores....

Actually there are a lot of rimmed cartridges that they use in those, that would make neat conversions for Marlin 336's and Model 94s...

The use of a spiral magazine is probably a good idea, but not nessisarily critical. The lack of recoil from the .250-3000 shoundn't cause a problem even with spitzer bullets, just as the low-recoiling .22 magnum doesn't cause problems in a tube magazine even with full-jacketed bullets.