has anyone ever used this bullet? was wondering how hard or
how soft it is.

Would like to know it would work for Whitetails?

Thanks,
jr1968

I had used this bullet in the 30-30 and the 307 Winchester prior to this old thread but this one got me to thinking seriously about the capabilities of this bullet. The 130-grainp Seer bullet has proven to be very accurate in a variety of 30-30, 30-30AI, 307 Winchester and 308 Marlin Express rifles.
At one time this bullet was the most accurate bullet I had shot in the 307 Winchester. The old smooth side Barnes X equaled this bullet for accuracy.
With chest and lung shots this bullet will put our little deer on the ground quickly. I have posted before that during a dry winter I have seen deer shot with the 130-grain Speer bullet hit the ground in a cloud of dust with the impact velocity above 2,400 fps.
There are a few other threads featuring this bullet with comments from hunters in Washington State and Georgia. There are no negative comments that I recall. The bullet is tough enough for 307 Winchester and 30-30AI velocities yet stil expands well at 30-30 velocities. We have shot a good number of cull deer with this bullet.

http://www.shootersforum.com/general-discussion/4151-one-mans-opinion.html


Edit - The Speer 130-grain bullet loaded ahead of 44.5 grains of IMR 4064 and seated to a COAL of 2.545� using Winchester brass and primers is a load that I was never afraid to say �Watch This� as I sat down at the bench to shoot a group. If thre shots were not under an inch it was my fault not the rifles. I have shot some bragging group 5 shot groups with this load too.

I have a new to me, '94 Winchester that I am thinking about loading for. The 130 grain Speer has always intrigued me for the .30-30. May have to try some of them out, just for the experience.

These are great deer loads

These are great deer loads

I am assuming a 20� barrel.
I like Hodgdon Varget - 36.0 grains chronographs 2,100 fps and will give excellent accuracy. I am not a 1� shooter with lever actions but this load will put 3 shots into 1 �� from the bench at it is one of those loads that gives you confidence when standing on your feet.
35.5 grains of Winchester 748 will give about the same velocity but has never given me the confidence building hits on small objects from field positions - clay birds on the bank.
Hodgdon 4895 is another good choice but I get better accuracy in the 16� barrel trapper than in my 20� barrel carbine. 35.0 grains is my load and this one gives me 2,100 fps+ from the 16� Trapper.

I'm about to try a new batch in a .30-40Krag Contender Carbine.

Ed

That piece sounds interesting, Ed. I'm sure the Texas Whitetails dread it.

They must, Joel. Every time I've had it out, I don't see so much as a doe!

All I've killed with it is time.

Ed

Loaded the 130 speer for years now with my win 94 for stalk hunting. Killed a few deer and one this year. One shot, few steps and down. Good deer round with flatter trajectory (if you need it) and lower recoil for young folks. I use W748 for good accuracy. It holds together well.

Thanks Cavey,

I am hoping to get my reloading bench put back together in the next couple of weeks. I plan to do a bit of loading and shooting with a .30-30 and a .30-06 this summer. I'll probably pick up a box of the 130's for the WCF.

Haven't shot any game with them, but loaded down slightly they make for less recoil. Very useful for youngsters or beginners.

I've used the Speer on several deer and the results have always been positive

I now hunt deer with cast but I feel the 130gr Speer is the ideal Whitail round. It expands well with behind the shoulder shots and holds together well when passing through bone.

So, are these going to be replaced with plated jackets like the Deep Curls in the future?

My understanding is something has stopped or at least slowed the Deep Curl introduction.
I have not shot any DC bullets but they will have to be good to replace the Hot Core. Our Leveraction velocities are ideal for the cup and core bullets. From the 307 Winchester down the Hot Core bullets work well.

This last weekend I set up 6 one gallon water jugs at 50 yrds.

The 130 speer exploded the first and second jug, went through
the third and stopped in the fourth.
Expanded to .536 and weight was 108.0 grs.

It's possible to safely get these up around 2600 fps out of a 20" 336 .30-30 using IMR 3031. Work up slowly and watch for pressure signs. Shoots sub-MOA out of my 1968 336C. Great deer load.

JW

I have experimented with alot of 30-30 loads...but always come back to the Speer. Consistent accuracy with great results on deer/pigs. Not fancy, but more than adequate!

What's your load for 3031?

I shoot 36 gr. IMR 3031, and this is probably maximum in my rifle. I've shot up to 37 gr, but accuracy was inconsistent. Back off 10%, work up with a chronograph, and stop if cases stick on extraction. Quikload estimates around 42 kpsi in my fire-formed cases. 36 gr. IMR 3031 is a published load with 125 Sierra HP, and if I remember correctly, it was in an old Guns and Ammo magazine my dad kept that had an article on "Hot .30-30 Loads." They were testing all the common bullet weights at maximum velocity in both a Winchester 94 and a Marlin 336. They were a little optimistic on most loads, but still good info nonetheless. I'll try to dig up the article next time I go to my parent's house and share some of the loads on here.

JW

Years ago I loaded the 130 Speers, but I dont remember the recipe. Chrono at 2000 fps and shot a little over 2" groups at 100 yds. Killed a lot of deer with that bullet. The only reason I quit using it was that it got to where I couldnt find them.

Also tried 125 gr HP Sierras, but they shot about 4" groups. I didnt waste a lot of time with them.

Any suggestions for the Speer 130 in an Ackley chamber? I like the idea of the 125/130's in the Ackley but most people seem to favor 150 to 170's.

The 130-grain Speer is a good bullet in the 30-30AI - Winchester or Marlin. My velocity goal in the 20� barrel was 2,700 fps - again no problem.
34.0 grains of Hodgdon 4198
41.5 grains og Hodgdon 4895
39.0 grains of Hodgdon 322
40.0 grains of Hodgdon 335
Will all meet the 2,700 fps goal in the 20� 30-30AI. These are high pressure loads but my rifles have no difficulty with them. Do not use used brass or range pick up brass for high pressure loading. Use new brass with a fireform load and then load for high performance.
The above loads wil give you at least 10 loads before indication of serious case stretching or thinning at the pressure ring to be more accurate.

35.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 7 will touch 2,670fps with good accuracy to.

While the above loads are high pressure I do not consider them a maximum load in my rifles.
My velocity goals for the 30-30AI were 3,000 fps for the 100-grain bullets, 2,700 fps for the 125- 130-grain bullets, 2,500 fps for the 150-grain bullets and 2,300 fps for the 170-grain bullets. There is no difficulty exceeding these velocities from the 20� barrel. There is also no need to exceed these velocities as the bullets perform well with close in and shots out side of 150-yards. I have no need to hunt further out than that.

Slim: Thanks for the detailed info. I've already learned about case head separation. Since the rechambering job I've just had very little free time to do the development work necessary but I whole heartedly agree about the use of fresh brass. I think it's time to retire so I can spend more time with my 336C. I assure you I won't start at your loads but will back off and work into them over my chrono. Thanks again.

I agree its time to retire and spend more time shooting! The problem is the cost of components is climbing fast! Hopefully the winding down of the wars will ease supply of materials.
If you search the Beartooth bullets Shooters forum for .30-30AI threads you will turn up a bunch of them. You don�t need the �super powders� and cup an core bullets work fine.
The only downside to the 30-30AI is the care required in bullet seating and crimping.
I do not shoot many cast bullets in the 30-30AI but Greg Mushial and Ranch Dog both have shot quite a few cast bullets in the improved chamber with reasonable success.

You're right about the crimping. I got burnt real bad when I neglected to watch the trim length. I think a 30 degree shoulder angle would reduce some of the cave in problems but the brass is so thin even that may not help. I tried some cast bullets early on for fire forming and they worked OK but seating is tricky. I gave up casting some years ago so stick with jacketed for now. Thanks for the forum tip too.

We had several threads relating to bullet seating and crimping the 30-30AI a few years ago.
A good chamfer helps. You might try the VLD chamfer tools if you already have one.
Some will have objection to the use of a case mouth expansion tool but the type Lee sells works fine and does not seem to affect bullet pull.
Thie Lee tool will over come most of the collapsed shoulder problem.
If you have difficulty chambering your cartridges and cannot see a collapsed shoulder measure the shoulder diameter just below the shoulder. Sometimes the shoulder will bulge just prior to collapsing the shoulder and this will prevent chambering.
Most brass will be under length after fire forming. If you are loading high pressure ammunition with Winchester 748, Hodgdon BLc2 or IMR 3031 you may well see cases growing after every shot. If you are using brass which has been loaded several times as standard 30-30 you may see the same growth in case length.
If you are having problems with crimp or collapsed shoulder a goood experiment is to pull the expander ball and full length size 10 cases. U se the Lee case mouth expander to lightly bell the case mouth and the seat your bullets. Crimp as a separate operation - I always do this with the 30-30 and the Improved cartridge.

Thanks Slim for all the good advice. Sorry it has taken so long but with holiday, retrieving my son from school and work I'm still out of breath. I've only had one short trip to the Shooters forum but plan to get back soon. Thanks again for the heads up.

I am pleased to discuss loading for and shooting the 30-30AI, 308 Marlin Express and the 307 Winchester. There may be a few folks with more experience loading for the cartridge but you will find few more enthusiastic about these three cartridges and their rifles. The prefect combination of rifle and cartridge for deer and pigs.
You will see in many of my later posts the 308ME has made the 30-30AI obsolete. I still believe this to be true.
I say, keep your 30-30 and buy a 308ME - of course we now have quality issues with the Remilins�.
The 308ME is more than a 30-30AI with a pointy bullet. The 308MX rifles are accurate with factory ammunition and the Handloader can duplicate the accuracy and easily duplicate the performance with Handloads.
If you are able to locate an early 308MX or if Remlin is able to again produce quality rifles you have no reason to look at the 30-30AI - other than curiosity. Certainly the 308ME is by far the easier cartridge to load for.

I am told: �Kids are worth it�� I cannot speak from experience but I have heard it is true. [:^)]

So now before I even get my 336C 30-03AI sorted out I'm supposed to just drop it and go for a 308ME? Sounds interesting but it'll have to wait. If I can swing retiring by this time next year and sell this house I'd like to replant in the San Marcos area and get into pig hunting with my 30-30AI and AR15. Hopes and dreams and wishes.

Not going that far!
Just saying that if you were going to purchase a rifle with the thought of conversion to 30-30AI I would look at the Marlin 308MX first.
If there are any flies on the 308 Marlin Express it is that the case capacity is large enough that it is easy to load the cartridge above published load levels. I started shooting the 308ME before Hornady released pressure tested load data. When pressure tested load data was released, I backed my loads down to conform to their data.
With the 30-30AI I loaded to my velocity goals. I give little consideration to pressure other than to ensure I have a reasonable safety margin and good case life.
I estimate my heaviest loads to be in the 52,000 CUP range - I have no idea as to actual pressure.
Loads meeting my velocity estimates are quite a bit lower.
The 30-30AI will give you all of the performance you are looking for and more. I just want to be straight up about the 308 Marlin Express being a cartridge that is easier to work with.

30 years ago, I was loading 130 gr. FN Speers. I dont remember the load data, but when I get back in La. I can look it up, if your still interested. Killed quite a few deer with the load. On the chronograph, it was 2000 ft/sec. I know that's not fast at all, but I didnt tell the deer and they all fell down, dead.

I used that load to teach several young men and women how to shoot and several took their first deer with it. One of the ladies (in her 40's now) wont shoot any other load for deer hunting.

Of course, you have to know that where we hunt, you cant see over 100 yds. most of the time.

I do remember this (strange what you can remember), 3" high @100 = 3" low @200, with that load.