What is your favorite modern '86 load shooting 400-405 grain bullets in the 45-70?

Are you looking for big bad bear loads or less?
I have a heavy 1886 that I can shoot the heavy loads in, but my Marlin is quite light and the lever rapps my right hand hard enough to be uncomfortable.

My 45-70 loads are almost all cast. I’m not sure how that would correspond to jacketed loads.

Here's my favorite 400 grain cast load in my Marlin (iron sights):

45-70 Marlin 1895G, 400 grain cast w/ GC, 34.5 grains 5744, 1.92 MOA

I read 46 grains of IMR3031 with a 400 grain SPEER bullet - 1,609 FPS to be one of Mike V.’s favorite loads.

Thanks Bugger,

I'm new to this game of big bore levers.
Just bought a 1886 saddle ring carbine.

Although bars are in the neighborhood, most of my shooting will likely be crushing rocks in Rimrock country.

Any hunting will be with a OTC elk tag and stalking in the thick salt cedars in desert type terrain.

Shots are quick and short range. I'm thinking an anchor bullet that penetrates. I do like the idea of Hard cast bullets.

I don't have an experienced velocity gauge for reference

Depending upon the gun...
Usually levers can be loaded to level 2 pressures.
I was running around 1650 for in a Browning 1886

1,650 fps sounds good to me, with my heavy 1886.

One of my brothers had a light weight 1886. He thought recoil was excessive with heavy loads even though he often shot higher recoil rifles. I don’t know the weight of your 1886, but a very light 45-70 with certain types of stocks can cause pain with heavy loads. I find I don’t need high velocity with heavy cast bullet loads to get good penetration.

You can buy good cast bullets on-line at maybe half the cost of jacketed bullets and in my opinion they work at least as well. On the other hand, I have 50 each 350 grain jacketed loads ready for testing this summer. (I got those bullets cheap.)

Cast bullets and the 45-70 are a perfect match, IMO.

I used 3031 in my Browning 86 with 405 gr bullets. I shot two elk with it. Bang flops at about 50 d feet. Fully loaded though it weighed 13 pounds. So then I only stuffed 4 rounds in it. First thing I did with it was make new stock for it with a very good recoil pad. 500gr cast and that curved steel butt plate was too much for me. Sorry I sold it though.

Thank you, all for your advise.

I chose an 1886 that does not have the Cresent butt plate.

I have a Japanese WRAC 1886 extra light I’ve shot a bunch.

I put a good pad on it both for the length and to get a little relief from the recoil.

It will safely push 400gr bullets over 1800fps but the recoil is absolutely brutal at that level of performance. Worse than my 10lb 458 or my 7lb 375H&H I used to have.

So I throttled them back to around 1500fps, much more shootable and actually closer to the designed performance envelope of most jacketed 405gr bullets. Both the Speer and Remington 405 are soft as chewing gum, designed for Trapdoor speeds.

A very good option for 1886s in 45/70 is the 350gr Speer mag tip. It’s too long when crimped in the groove to function in a Marlin but the 86s will eat them with no issues. It is a great bullet and was inexpensive, I haven’t bought any in a while. You can drive it 2000fps or more safely if you so desire using a case full of H4198.

My favorite powder for pretty much every bullet weight in 45/70 is H4198. But Elmer Keith’s load of 3031 under a 405 is a very potent load if you have 3031, IIRC he used 53gr under a Speer bullet.

Thanks Kid

mY MIROKU 1886 WEIGHS JUST UNDER 10 POUNDS AND HANDLES 450 GRAIN NF bullets at 2150 fps well.
THESe LOADS PERFORM QUITE QELL ON AFRICAN GAME INCLUDING BUFF AND ELE. THE CRESCENT BUTT PLATE TOOK SOME GETTING USED TO, BUT THAT WAS SOME YEARS AGO.

Shelton, good looking rifle, and what a load!

Would love to know what powder you are using and a starter load.

Come across an interesting find.

Two boxes of Nosler 300 grain partitions.

Two boxes of BTB 350 grain Piledrivers

One box of 525 grain Piledrivers.

The Noslers you could probably sell or trade for double what most other available bullets sell for. They are highly sought after and long discontinued, replaced by the RN Ballistic Silvertips.

My 1886 looks like that except my rear sight is a Lyman aperture. I don’t mind heavy loads in it. I plan to bring it to Tulsa next week end.

Would love to know what powder you are using and a starter load."
1886 African loads are VV N133, Fed mag primers, 450 grain NF solids. They shoot through all but the biggest. Will have to look up started load.

Rifle also has barrel sight that folds down to use the peep.

SU35 - what Charles neglected to mention is that while his rifle is a modern 1886, it’s chambered for 45/90, so it can pack a bigger payload.

A famous load developed by Elmer Keith was 53 gr of 3031 behind a 400gr bullet in a 45/70. Keith used a late model original 1886 (with better steel than earlier models). This load developed around 1850 fps but what was never mentioned is the OAL. I found that a load 53gr of 3031 was heavily compressed in a 45/70 case loaded to 2.55”.

Without altering the throat length (which is non existent in SAAMI spec 45/70 chambers) and by using bore riding bullet designs you can load a 45/70 to a longer OAL in an 1886. An 1886 rifle can cycle a cartridge length of around 2.88” but slightly shorter is better for reliable feeding.

There are several powders like Reloader 7 and H-4198, that are good powders for heavier loads. There is pressure tested load data available, so there’s plenty of guidance.

JFE
Thanks for catching my Boo Boo.
It seems that Covid 19 is hard on keyboard skills! recovery is slow!

CRS - sorry to hear you got Covid and hope you get over it quickly. I got hit by Covid in June last year and still have a few lingering symptoms.

I as much as figured it was a '90. Good info on the Keith load.

I have a keg of RL-7 on the way. Thanks!!

Brownells had some RE-7. I ordered a 5 pounder.

Midway has 8lbs for $217.00 and Free shipping.

5 pounds.

8 lbs says my invoice

A bit off topic, but hopefully acceptable minor thread drift within the limits of requested information.

Just me, you understand, but if I were mainly just plinking rocks, I would go to 350ish cast with mid 30s of 3031, or mid 20s of 5744 or 4759.

Of course I have a lifetimes supply of three of those components so it may influence my decision somewhat.

One simple load of 26 grains of AA5744 will completely penetrate any or all of the largest mammals in North america, whether it is shot in an1886 or a Sharps...

Great pictures, nice examples.

Shrapnel,

Are you using cast bullets in your 45-70?

Absolutely. A Jacketed bullet has no advantage over the hard cast bullet, it will not mushroom much at 45-70 velocities past 80 yards or so. Rarely do you ever stop a 45-70 in an animal, when you do they look like this...

I feel that cast bullets work best in the 45-70 too.

Nice pictures, rifles and game!

Fwiw...

I had a Marlin 1895 45-70 with 22" barrel and Ballard rifling. Loaded Rem 405 grain jsp bullets up to Elmer's load of 53 grains 3031 (IMR) that he often claimed were in the 1800+ fps area. Felt a little extraction issue at 53 grains.

Settled at 50 grains IMR 3031. Excellent accuracy (~1.25 moa). Guessing about 1650-1700 fps (???) and easy extraction. Don't have a chrongraph.

51.5 grain IMR 3031 + 405 grain would be my call for the accurate "near max" load for that rifle with easy extraction.

Tell us about that beautiful rifle .