I have a friend with 2 Marlins he no longer needs. Both are 1895 guide guns. One is a non-ported 45-70 and the other is a ported 450 Marlin. Both in excellent condition. Same price on both guns. I dont handload so I will be shooting factory ammo.
Here in Texas I will use it for Hogs, Deer and Coyotes.
Which one do I choose????????????

You can get factory ammo for the 45/70 in mild to wild.

.450 is pretty much loaded to the top end. There also may be an availability issue, I don't know.

Ports are loud.

Both are quite capable of taking very large game.

Anyway, those are my preferences.

I'm almost as old as the 45-70, so I'd prefer that one but the non-porting of the 45-70 cements that for me. Ported barrels hurt to shoot in the field.

Pard, The .45=70 has been around for a bunch of years. I figure it will be around for many more years to come. IMHO go with the .45-70.

45-70 in half a heartbeat and don't look back.

45-70

That sums up my opinion as well. Go w/ the 45-70 and don't look back.

This seems to be the choice of most on here. I like the 45-70 round but wonder why more people shy away from the 450 marlin?

If you reload or want mild ammo, buy the .45/70. If you shoot factory ammo and want power, buy the .450.

There really isn't a bad decision; and you shouldn't be shooting without hearing protection anyway.

45-70. 'Nuf said . . .

I've shot a few short barreled guns, and a ported one here and there. Its my observation that short barreled rifles are just loud, period. I've never been able to tell any difference in muzzle blast between ported short barrels and unported ones, but I can say heavy loads in either gun are going to recoil, and you will know when you light one off.
If you think you need maximum power, then buy the .450 M. Hornady is still the only SAAMI manufacturer to load the .450 M. If you would prefer a more modest approach, then go with the 45-70. Remington, Winchester, and when you can find em-Federal all load the 45-70.
.450 Marlin is loaded at 43,000psi., the .45-70 at 28,000psi. Yes, certain manufacturers exceed the 28,000 limit, and you will pay for this both through your wallet and your shoulder.
If you intend to primarily hunt large hogs, go with the extra stopping power of the .450, if you choose to mostly hunt lighter species, with an occasional large critter, you will be happier with the 45-70.

So does the extra 15K pressure in the 450 generate any substantial velocity difference using same weight projectiles?

Mak--A 45-70 will shoot through the largest hog that ever walked--including Hogzilla-- with a 520 grain 457125 Lyman bullet and 70 grains of black powder. That is 1200 fps give or take 10 fps.

Load a Lyman 457121 480 grain flatnose bullet and 66 grains of 3f black powder in your 1895 Marlin for 1250 fps and get the same result. Don't want to shoot black? Load 37 grains of IMR 3031 with either bullet and get the same result. Complete pass through and dead animals.

The 450 Marlin was a marketing gimmick, pure and simple. I can take my 45-70 Cowboy Marlin with ladder barrel sights and shoot through elk at 400 yards, no problem. And no, I'm not kidding about that. I can reach and kill anything with my 45-70 that you can reach with the 450 Marlin.

You don't have to load a 45-70 hot to get remarkable results. 1200 fps is plenty with 400 to 520 grain bullets, and the recoil is easy on the shoulder. All you get with the hot loads is an ego boost and a sore shoulder.

The 450 is your better rifle, Just do it. One Texan to another.

I would suggest that should you be using a lever gun, you probably have a bit of a naustalgia bent. As such enjoy the 45/70 round. I agree with sharpsguy that the 500 ish bullets under 70 gr equivalent is a comfortable round to shoot, and that six feet of penetration can be expected. That round repeats its flight characteristics round after round with an eirie accuracy.

I have never shot a 450 marlin, or a really souped up 45/70, as the original recipe has always been sufficient. I do confess to an affair with hot loading in my youth, but I returned to my love affair with the original, and have remained satisfied.

Randy

Johnny Loco--I'm a Texan, too.

I'd get the non-ported .45-70-- just cause I'm not crazy about ports. I also like the traditional .45-70 a touch better than the pretty much ballistically equivalent .450 Marlin.

Either gun would be great.

If you don't like tabasco sauce or spicey food, you'll probably stick with the bland 45/70.

You ain't going to shoot the .450 enough to worry about availability of ammo. You'll sight it in and think about it for a while.

Howdy Texans

Both of the rifles were sold before I could buy one but a LEO I know had a Marlin 1985 in .450 Marlin that he was not going to use so I jumped on it. Once I figure out how to post pictures on here I will post them up.

Johnny boy you have bought into the corporate sell of the 450. There is nothing bland about hitting every time and packing out big critters. Have at your 450 once in a while, I'll keep shooting my old bland 45/70, having fun and eating well.
Randy

Some of my 45-70 loads ain't so bland, either.

Folks here seem to think because I said the 450 offers top power that I am somehow antagonistic towards the .45-70, when nothing could be further from the truth.
28,000psi results in a very effective cartridge. For many decades, a favored load among 45-70 shooters has been the Winchester High Velocity recipe of a 300 gr. jacketed at about 1800fps. This is a great load.
In contrast, the .450 will launch the same bullet at over 2200fps from the guide gun's short barrel.
What the 450 really does is standardize the .45 cal levergun round.
Part of the problem with the 45-70 lies in the wide array of guns chambered for it-everything from traditional black powder to modern rifles and handguns. This puts the cartridge at three or even four very different power levels. For specialty manufacturers, or very careful handloaders, this presents little problem-BUT for the uninitiated, it is a maze with potentially very bad results.
Thus SAAMI manufacturers stick at or below the black powder pressure level of 28,000psi, and thus the justification for the .450, because now, maximum levergun pressures of 43,000psi can safely be utilized.
The only reason for choosing the .450 is to choose maximum power available for the .45 cal cartridge. The extra power enables the cartridge to shoot flatter. Depending on a number of variables, it can also mean greater expansion-even with cast bullets.
The simple reality is, if you do not handload, the .45-70 offers the best choices for lighter game, unless you have very deep pockets, and can afford the significant upswing in price that goes with specialty ammo. On the other hand, the .450 Marlin offers all the power and more of most of those specialty loads, at far greater savings.

That sums it up pretty good.

Been there, done that, got the bruises to prove it.

Hey medic man, I say use what you have but If I had the choice of the two rifles for the same price, I'll always choose 450.

Same price, Hummer over a chevy truck?

I just left Canada last night, Your mounties tried to take my pepper spray when I arrived at the border a few days back, tried to tell me it was illegal. I didn't argue but five minutes since I'm from Texas.

Its illegal to have pepper spray in Canada for use against vicious humans, legal against vicious animals. If you have it for animals, you can use it for humans...They need to learn the law.

Hell, they tried to tell me I couldn't bring a gun into Canada so I brought them up to speed on that too.

Beautiful country though. I know y'all hate those damn gunlaws too and opt-out of much of that BS.

JohnnyLoco
Having a choice makes it possible to pursue individual desires, which is always good. You can have it (pepper spray) for animals, but using it on a person will result in criminal charges. Your choice, and with choices come responsibilities.

There are areas in Canada that simply take your breath away, and there are areas (in large urban centres) that make you hold your breath. Avoid those latter areas, and deployment of pepper spray against another persson is virtually illiminated.

Glad you had a good time in our fair land.
Randy

Buy a product called Bear Guard and you're good to go. Use it on a human, and you're good to go to jail for assault with a weapon, and possession of a prohibited weapon. That can rest your hiney in the bucket for long enough to make you take stock, and give you a criminal record for the rest of your life.

The funny thing about the law is, you don't have to agree with it for it to bite you on the butt very hard. Like Randy said, enjoy Canada for the good things we have, and not for what we don't have. Most of us would like to scrap the gun laws, but until we get a stronger conservative government, ain't going to happen.

I'd like to know from "Sharpsguy" how he compresses 66 grs. of 3F under the 457121 bullet. Even in the bigger capacity Winchester cases I can't do that with just a drop tube. Do you just force the bullet or use a compression die? Also, is you bullet soft or hard? Thanks for your feedback!

I wasn't born in Texas but I got here as fast as I could and then married in.

Dimebox--I use Remington cases in my 45-70s. The 66 grains is dropped through a 24 inch droptube and pre compressed with a compression die before the bullet is set in the case. The powder is compressed until it is .775 from the top of the case mouth to the top of the powder. The powder itself is actually squeezed about .490. It is a lot of compression, I know, but I have loaded several thousand of these over the years with no problems.

Next I place a thin wad cut from ordinary Cut Rite wax paper down on the powder. This wad is only about one and a half thousandths thick, and serves to keep the lube from migrating from the bullet to the powder charge.

The bullet is cast 30-1 lead to tin, and is lubed with Black Magic lube. It is seated so that all the grease grooves are covered. This load is very accurate in all of my 45-70 caliber Sharps and my 1895 Cowboy Marlin in 45-70. It chronographs 1249 fps with a standard deviation of 3 out of one of my Shilohs with a 30 inch barrel.

A friend of mine shot a bison cow in January with this load using his Sharps. He hit her square between the eyes from 80 yards on the rangefinder. The exit wound in the back of the skull was big enough to put a baseball in. She dropped like a rock, straight down and didn't move a muscle. I would use this one on anything, and recoil is amazingly light.

This load cycles through my 1895 Marlin beautifully. Eight of these in the magazine and one in the chamber is hard to argue with.

Thanks! I just got a .45 compression insert for my RCBS dies. I'll give it a try soon.