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I am considering a new Marlin in 45-70 or 450 Marlin. It appears they are similar ballistically. Anyone have experience with the 450 Marlin? I am a loader so factory loads isn't a concern for me. BuT what about the load itself. Is brass going to be available?

Thanks in advance
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.
Originally Posted by Dog_Hunter
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.


IM intrigued with its uniqueness but wondering if i should just stay with the 45-70
Probably so, the brass (if you handload) is not as available as .45-70, and loaded ammo can be hard to find.

I would like to see the .450 hang on. If anything, the round makes a good short-action thumper in a bolt rifle, and if the donor rifle is a short-mag, the conversion is pretty straight-forward.
I stayed with the 70, when I bought mine last year. There is really no difference in the performance. I think however that the life of the 450 will be shorter than that of the 70.
Buy 200 pcs of 450 brass...set of dies...rifle too of course

.458 boolits are everywhere...Forget about any issues...
In most factory loads the 450 holds a big advantage over the 45-70 because of pressure limitations on the 45-70. However this low pressure limitation can disregarded in modern marlin rifles. As a hand loader the 40-70 can actually be loaded to slightly higher velocities than the 450 due to a slight capacity advantage. This is why in premium ammunition such as buffilo bore the 45-70 is slightly faster than the 450.
What obie said. Especially if you handload, the 45-70 would be a better choice.
45-70
When I wanted my Guide Gun the shop had both available and I bought the .450 because no one else had one and I wanted something different. I would do it again for the same reason regardless of which is "better".
I just purchased a BLR in 450. I know I can load it hotter than any Marlin, so I get performance beyond what is possible with an old 45-70. A BLR can handle 300 and 338 win mags, so this is doable and safe.
At one point I had a 450MXLR in addition to a 1895GS and 1895SDT. The 450 was nice but superfluous to the two 45-70s so I sold it. Probably the biggest thing going for the 45-70 is components are more readily available.
I doubt Bambi would be able to tell which headstamp was on the brass that was fired the bullet, 450M or 45-70, although the 45-70 has slightly larger case capacity.
450M brass is still only made by Hornady...
If I wanted the mostest from either cartridge I'd get a Ruger #1, not made in 450M so it would be 45-70...
Which will be here in 20-50 years, 45-70!
Ive found my 450 marlin caliber BLR absolutely loves 50 grains of IMR3031 under a 405 remington bullet with a 215 fed primer, Im not 100% sure of velocity but its a hard hitting load thats producing 1" hundred yard groups off the bench consistently
http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm
450 marlin handloads.

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group

300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load


300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi
Modernized 45/70, just a little harder to find than 45/70 of the shelf.
I have a 450M and I would buy it again

It is everything I hoped for

On the downside you should handload or your ammo options are limited.

I would and did get a 450M

Snake
What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road.
Actually, the .45-70 can match the .450 performance levels, it has slightly more case capacity.
Before I ordered my XLR, I did give the .450 considerable thot.
I ended up with the same thots that GG stated, will I be able to buy brass 10 years from now? I did buy the XLR in .45-70.
Love the gun, and I probably woulda loved it just as well if it had been a .450, but I honestly feel that the .45-70 will be around for nother 125 years, and I don't believe that we can say the same for the .450.
Marlin has always made a fine firearm, however, thier specific designed cartridges have not had good record to success.
I have both, a BLR .450 and a few .45-70's. I handload and shoot 400 grn cast paper patched bullets. Moose and little bears do not stand a chance. I keep the range to 200 yds and under. If there is a difference between the two cartridges i cannot tell.
I have two .45-70s. I'd seriously consider a .450 if I found one but would get a lifetime supply of brass at the same time. I handload exclusively so either cartridge would work fine for me.
Brass seems to last a long time with my reloads using cast bullets. It is a shame that the belt is not in the same location as the other belted magnums. It would make for a good supply of cheep brass. I suppose that a rifle could be chambered in the .458 American 2" to solve this issue.
Originally Posted by GuideGun
What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road.


Really nothing is wrong with a 45/70 in the right platform.

That said the 450M is everything a hot 45/70 wants to be in every 450M rifle.

It is a cool round which is not to say a 45/70 is not

There are some minor but important differences between Marlins in 45/70 and 450M. The 450 barrels and receivers feature Vee threads which essentially allow for greater material in the receiver area between the bottom of the chamber and the top of the magazine tube. Also as the belted 450 case is smaller in diameter than the rimmed 45/70 case, a smaller mag tube is used, again allowing more steel in a critical area where 45/70's sometimes fail. If you examine any of the photos where Marlin 45/70's have failed it is generally this area that lets go.

Having said that, a 45/70 loaded to around 30k pressures still provides plenty of performance and a considerable margin of safety. Besides, a 400 gr pill at 1800-1900 fps would take care of most animals roaming the earth.
Originally Posted by JFE
...
Having said that, a 45/70 loaded to around 30k pressures still provides plenty of performance and a considerable margin of safety. Besides, a 400 gr pill at 1800-1900 fps would take care of most animals roaming the earth.


JFE

Thanks for the info. many folks sometimes take the Rifle construction for granted.

I Load my 450M with Speer 400g bullets and I will tell you 1900+ Ft/sec is plenty.

Snake
In a Browning the 450 Marlin can load spitzer X bullets loaded long to 50,000PSI. This puts it in a different class!
It appears to me that the 450M was developed to give NON-reloaders the power of what 45/70 reloaders have been getting for years out of the 1895. For a guy who does not nor wants to reload,it is the answer for real. No need either way to push pressures into ridiculous territories any how as the 45 caliber w/a slug of 400 g or better is a killing machine from 1200 to 2000 fps. So pick yer poison.
I had the same choice to make (45-70 or 450) a couple of years ago and went with 45-70. I don't reload so the choice was easy. The range of loads is so great for the 70 that I could get ammo to fit any of my needs. I bought a Marlin 1895 and have never had a regret. I love the thought of shooting a round that has been around for over a century. The bear in my picture was taken with that rifle in New Brunswick Canada. The grand ole 45-70 is a classic round made for a classy rifle. Go ahead a get yourself a piece of history
BTW I looked for several Months to find a decent quality set of scope rings and mounts,for My blr, I wanted a weaver style set as Ive found that style seems to hold up and have fewer failures in the field.
several places I contacted listed mounts and rings, but I ordered a couple sets, from local shops that were listed as one piece base sets only to need to return those when for various reasons I found they didn,t fit correctly,(there seems to be two separate screw spacing versions)
I wanted a set for my 450 marlin, caliber BROWNING LEVER RIFLE,(BLR) , All I got was several trips to local gun-shops to purchase and return mounts that failed to fit correctly UNTIL I just gave up on finding mounts and rings locally and ordered a MILLETT #CP40714 set with a two piece base that fit and function perfectly

BE aware the factory rear sight on the BLR can be in the way, for clearing some scopes
I would not count on Remington/Cerberus continuing to support the 450M. Making your own brass is problematic because the headspace band is thicker than the H&H parent case. I guess you could run it as long as you can and shoot the barrel out, then rebarrel to whatever. Good luck with it.
I think a great many guys who stick their nose up at the idea of using what they perceive as older lower velocity cartridges like a hot loaded 45/70 or 450 marlin have that opinion because they have little or no experience in the field with someone using one.
at the risk of proving Im an old geezer,Ill tell you this.
as an example,
back in the late 1969 season here in Florida I was hunting with a guy, who had just purchased a 444 marlin, JACK, had sighted it in 3" high at 100 yards the previous weekend and had a weaver 4x scope on the rifle,he had loaded it with speer 3/4 jacket hollow points.
JACK, was using the rifle he had purchased for an up coming elk hunt after reading the advertizement posted below.
[Linked Image]
we were walking across a large field when we saw two bucks stand up at about 150 yard out and stand staring at us, in those days the daily bag limit was two deer a day. before I could even say a thing JACK, fired that rifle twice in very rapid succession and to my amazed young eyes both deer dropped on the spot. I,d never seen deer drop instantly when hit and I sure as hell never saw two deer shot and dropped almost instantly within feet of each other.
right then I knew I needed to buy a similar rifle, which I did as soon as funds allowed and it worked great for several decades.
I eventually sold that rifle to upgrade to the 45/70 version and I sold the 45/70 after about 15 years to upgrade to the 450 marlin BLR and in each case the results were both impressive and in my opinion an improvement, (the 450 marlin BLR is not significantly more powerful than a 45/70 but the BLR is more accurate in my experience,and handles better, I primarily hunt ELK in thick cover and wooded canyons.
I think most guys read far to many magazine articles and get the idea most game is shot at extreme ranges mandating a flat trajectory rifle, but its been my experience that shots over 250 yards are rather rare.
yes when I first started hunting out west I had assumed the same thing and used a 30/06 which I eventually upgraded to a 340 wby, but the truth is that all but 2-3 shots Ive ever taken at elk, and of all the elk Ive killed, could very easily have been made with a 45/70 as I said, shots over 250 yards have been rare. while Ive used a 340 wby and 375 H&H much more often, Ive used a 45/70 with hard cast gas check bullets on two elk and dozens of hogs , its a darn effective caliber, once you can punch a big hole in one side and out the other on an elk, the markings on the brass cartridge case are not critical
Originally Posted by 340mag
... once you can punch a big hole in one side and out the other on an elk, the markings on the brass cartridge case are not critical


Perfectly stated. +1
The 450 Marlin has been sneered at for many years, often by those whom have never used it in the field. I have one in the Marlin 1895 with 24" barrel with receiver sight. Accuracy is amazing with 350 gr loads to 200 yds. I have been using this rifle for about 10 years.
Originally Posted by AlabamaEd
The 450 Marlin has been sneered at for many years, often by those whom have never used it in the field. I have one in the Marlin 1895 with 24" barrel with receiver sight. Accuracy is amazing with 350 gr loads to 200 yds. I have been using this rifle for about 10 years.


This
The .45-70 has really stood the test of time. It is available everywhere. Jack O'Connor used to talk about traveling to hunt and lost luggage. Where are you going to get a box of .450 Marlin at 2200 in Yellowknife?

I used to have a .444 Marlin and now have things like a .348 Winchester and a Sharps in .45-100. The .45-70 is a better answer because you can get Garrett and Buffalo cartridges loaded up and all the brass you want for cheap.
Originally Posted by DeerSkinner
I just purchased a BLR in 450. I know I can load it hotter than any Marlin, so I get performance beyond what is possible with an old 45-70. A BLR can handle 300 and 338 win mags, so this is doable and safe.


I own the BLR '81 (takedown) & the Winchester 94TE (takedown).
Both are in 450 Marlin which is a real slick cycling cartridge in a levergun.
I own several 45-70s....Pedersoli 86/71, Marlin 1895G, Marlin 1895GS, Baikal SxS, NEF Pardner B/O action.
All good guns.
If you handload get the 45-70
Originally Posted by Fotis
If you handload get the 45-70


WHY other then the price and avail of brass ? RJ
Just got a BLR in 450 Marlin - i have a 95G in 45-70 so we shall see ! RJ
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


I like the thoughts of that! The .450 Marlin case made building short-action thumpers so easy. Though I see you are apparently basing yours on a .458 WinMag case, about the only difference will be the width of the belt, which is of absolutely no consequence.

I honestly think that a bolt rifle is the best use of that case. It overcomes the problems associated with the .45-70 in that type action.

I really have no use for something like that, and I've resisted the urge to build one numerous times, but I really want one.
Originally Posted by REMINGTONJIM
Just got a BLR in 450 Marlin - i have a 95G in 45-70 so we shall see ! RJ


The Browning should be able to outpace the Marlin, due to the action strength.
Originally Posted by Vic_in_Va
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


I like the thoughts of that! The .450 Marlin case made building short-action thumpers so easy. Though I see you are apparently basing yours on a .458 WinMag case, about the only difference will be the width of the belt, which is of absolutely no consequence.

I honestly think that a bolt rifle is the best use of that case. It overcomes the problems associated with the .45-70 in that type action.

I really have no use for something like that, and I've resisted the urge to build one numerous times, but I really want one.


I'm using .300 Win Mag cases. It's going to be a 4.5x2" but cut at 2.1" so I can easily use .450 Marlin dies, Lee case trimmer and Lee FCD.

I really have no use for something like that either but I couldn't resist the urge!
OK. Those dies are probably easier to get and cheaper to boot.

I really have no use for my .45-70 either, but I have always wanted one, so I finally did. I do use it, but not to it's potential, though when I go deer hunting I am ready if the nearby Zoo's T-Rex escapes!

That urge has moved to what you are describing, though the longing for Garands got in the way for a short while.

I have fixed that one.
I've got a couple Marlin 1895 Guide Guns in both 45-70 and 450M. Like them both. Ballistically when compared in the Marlin 1895 actions and keeping within each SAMMI max pressure specification limits (36,000 psi vs 43,500) the Marlin 1895M 450 Marlin is a little ahead. The design difference between the two was mentioned earlier above - "U" vs "V" cut threads between the barrel and receiver as well as more "V" threads per inch. The "V" threads are a little shallower and leaves a few thousands thickness of steel in both the receiver and barrel. While the "V" threads are shallower there are more of them and this provides more surface/contact area between the barrel/receiver and accounts for most of the 1895M's higher max chamber pressure.

The 45-70 case itself does hold a few more grains of powder than the 450M case. The amount varies by the maker of the 45-70 cases as there is only one 450M case manufacture (Hornady) they are all the same. The lower case capacity of the 450M is attributed to slightly thicker case walls and the extra material in the "webbing" area between the case head and case belt area. What this lower case capacity means is that if you use the same powder, charge weigh and bullet in a 45-70 and 405M cartridge, the 450M will build pressure quicker and higher than the 45-70.

As previously mentioned the Winchester BLR lever rifles are rated for similar pressure limits as modern bolt action rifles and their detachable box magazines allow Spitzer point bullets. There is one custom Winchester BLR that I am aware of that has been converted to 416 Ruger for example and shoots sub MOA full house 416 Ruger loads.

The biggest difference that I find between the two rounds in the same Marlin 1895 style action is the 450M round cycles through the actions and pass through the loading gate smoother. The only reason I can come up with is the "rim" on the 45-70 just doesn't function as smoothly as the 450M.

I also have several bolt rifles converted to 45-70 and 450M. Three Siamese Mausers are in 45-70 and one Ruger M77 and one Pre-64 Win 70 in 450M. Hunting hand loads for these bolt rifles are to entry level 458 Win Mag performance.

Wife's Mauser hunting load is a 300gr TTSX (for the 458 SOCOM) at 2300fps and a 325 CEB #13 solid at the same velocity. The solid generates enough muzzle energy (4000+ foot pounds) to be African DG legal.

My 450M hunting loads in the Win 70 and Ruger 77 are 350gr TSX at 2300 fps and the same 325gr CEB #13 solid at 2400fps.

My wife and I have taken our Marlin 1895's and bolt guns to Namibia and taken multiple head of PG with each. I took my 1895M to RSA in 2011 when I took the KNZ PH qualification/certification course. I took lots of extra ammo and let the other course members put a few rounds through it at the range.

The HUGE advantage of the lever guns REALLY stood out during the "charging animal/speed shooting" qualification. In this phase of the shooting qualification targets are set up at 30m, 20m and 10m. The "target" on each was a black rectangle the size of a small cigarette pack. At the "go" the shooter had 20 seconds to free-hand shoot three rounds, one round on each target, starting at the 30m target and working forward. All three shots had to be "in the black" to qualify. We had one opportunity and no "warm up". The purpose was to simulate a "charging" animal.

We lined up with 3 shooters on individual lanes. The rifles were loaded with 3 rounds in the magazine, chambers empty and rifle slung or or carried over the shoulder. On the "go" the shooters un-slung, chambered and started shooting.

I was very surprised that I had completed my third shot while the other two shooters with bolt actions were just chambering/shooting their second shots. The instructor was also very surprised at the speed of the lever gun. When everyone was done he asked if I would do it again and he videoed it - 9 seconds total. I had taken enough extra ammo that allowed the others and the instructor to put 10 rounds each through it. It was a BIG hit. They had all seen pictures of lever guns but that was the first time any of them had a chance to handle and even shoot one.

It comes down to if you hand load or just purchase factory loads and how much you shoot and how much factory ammo you can afford. The original "idea/concept" of the 450M was to be able to offer the non-reloader the ability to step-up to a higher performance level the 45-70 is capable of without risk of guys trying to put those hotter factory loads into old low-preasure Trap door Springfields. The reason they made the "belt" a little different than the 458 Win Mag was to prevent guys from trying to put 458 Win Mag rounds into the Marlin lever action and vice versa... and probably a bit of proprietary marketing/sales.

Personally, I think that if Hornady/Marlin would have come out with the 450M round when all of those Siamese Mauser actions were coming back to the US and being converted to 45-70 (Mid/Late 70's) it would have made the Siamese Mauser 450M conversion the "hot ticket" and would have prompted more than just Steyr to offer a production bolt action in 450M.

In the end, which one is "better".....it's kind of like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg. Get either one you personally "like" for whatever reason you like and if you hand load just be sure to keep your loads within the design specifications of the platform you choose. It will keep you safe and those next to you on the shooting line or PH standing next to you safe as well.
Originally Posted by BCSteve
I'm building one on a Rem 700 WSM action, actually it's going to be a .458x2.1", but close enough!


Hey Steve hows the project coming along ? RJ
Actually, I just finished forming some brass this morning. Just waiting for the barrel to come in. Hopefully it will be ready in time for moose season.
Originally Posted by BCSteve
Actually, I just finished forming some brass this morning. Just waiting for the barrel to come in. Hopefully it will be ready in time for moose season.


Good ! what barrel you using ? brand - ss or cm twist lenght etc ? also whos smithing this project ? Mick ? or Interesting !

Cheers RJ
Stainless Shillen 1:14 twist, going to have it finished a 20". Sean at North Shore Barrels is going to put the pieces together.
Have had North Shore do work for you before ?
No. I figured I'd give him a try. He's fairly new but he's getting lots of good review.
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