I am thinking about getting a big bore lever gun. I haven't decided which caliber yet; what are your thoughts on each for WT deer in the woods? What about other calibers such as the 375 Winchester? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Any and all mentioned will be more than sufficient. Do you reload? 375 ammo is at an amazing premium in price. I have all three you mention. I just rotate. :-)

No, I don't reload at the moment.

You'll have more bullet selections in 45-70. More varieties of factory ammo too.


Dan

You should go with the 45/70 or 444

(aka 44Willie)

356/358....overall more sensible, IMO.

The .45-70 would have ammo more readily available than the other two.

I have no experience with the .375, but until you get into the real heavies. the .444 and .45-70 are two peas in a pod.

A .444 with a 1/20 twist barrel can move into the heavy-bullet territory quite well, and would remove a lot of the advantage a .45-70 would have.

As far as Whitetail, it would be a wash, with the advantage going to the .444 if using factory loads unless one goes with a light-bullet boutique loading in .45-70.

1 of each!!

.45-70 gets my vote. More ammo available. Easily reloadable if you decide to go that route.

45-70 ammo is readily available.
But I will be buried with my 1978 Marlin 444....

There is that!

No matter what, you won't be wrong.

45-70 all day everyday, brass, bullets, and available bullet weights trump all, plus, it had cool military and buffalo slaying history and to go with it.

I have used both to take whitetails. Although reloading components are more readily available for the 45-70 the 444 shoots flatter and with less recoil in my experience. I did take 2 does with one shot from a 444 once and that might cloud my judgement but I prefer the 444.

if you don't get one of each, get whichever one that you
know for sure you can get brass and dies for.
i've shot deer with both and it doesn't make a nickle's
worth of difference with a whitetail deer when you bust
up the pumphouse.
i already had brass and dies for what i bought, so that's
what i went with.
good luck

If you hunt bad weather, swamps, or lowlands get the stainless. In which case, 45-70 is much easier to find

The factory ammo in45 70 maybe compromised and "weaker" as compared to the triple 4. As there are no older weak 444 actions. If I reloaded and started with just one I would recommend the 45 70 all day long. I own both.

45-70......as mentioned.....

more components selections....no dry spells with brass.....

I'd find me an old m71 in a 348 wcf.

The 444 was introduced when the 45-70 had nearly disappeared from the shooting market back on the 1960's. It's factory load with a 265 grain bullet is a weak proposition when compared to the current 45-70 offerings.

The 444 has ample power that a 44 magnum can't provide and is not as heavy in the recoil department as the 45-70, but it just doesn't have all the commercially loaded options, much less the "cool" factor that the 45-70 has.

Get a 45-70 and you won't be disappointed.

I have owned and shot both and for no reason I can explain I prefer the 444. Given my goofy take, I would recommend a 45-70 due to the flexibility of different loadings and availability.

Both calibers will thump a whitetail with great authority!

Since you don't reload I would go with the 45-70. But if you decide to start then there are so many options. The 45-70 can be loaded down to lightness and up to ferocious! The 444 have FTX bullets available that give it greatly improved BC.

Both are more than enough for whitetails. Of the two, I'd go with the .444 for the flatter trajectory and lighter recoil. But honestly, I wouldn't choose either when the .30-30 works so well, recoils less, shoots flatter and is cheaper to shoot.

I haven't used the 444 but have used the 45-70 on 4 whitetail with great success. I do reload but also like that is a great variety of factory 45-70 on the market. Either one are great cartridges no doubt.

Love my Marlin 444.

Not having a 45/70, but having a 444 Marlin since 1981, I'd tend to lean toward it...

after I bought mine, my buddy who always had to "one up me", bought a 45/70 Marlin....

within 150 yds hunting range in the woods...I never saw anything Keith did with his 45/70, that my 444 couldn't do also....

Having handloaded since the mid 90s....my 444 gets fed a diet of SR 4759 for powder with a 300 gr XTP at 1750 fps MV....

That load will pull the rug out from underneath, about anything hit in the right spot out to 150 yds.... since that is fine, as its always been a woods hunting rig...

the boys in the Scout troop and friends of my son, have always enjoyed shooting it when I load 180 or 200 grain XTPs at about 1000 fps out of it....

mega low recoil, but blows the crap out of saplings and stuff, which the kids seem to love..

and I'm sitting on enough brass to out last me, so that isn't an issue either...

nothing wrong with a 45/70.... but nothing wrong with a 444 either...

I've had both. The 45-70 kicks like a mule on steroids with heavies, that was in Marlin CB though. With light weight bullets recoil was fine, but the bullets acted like gernades.

I got a 444 and like it better. But if I lived in Alaska I would go with the 45-70.

Look up the Safari Grade 444 Marlin. A heavy hitter.

Agreed, I had a 45-70 marlin Cowboy and shot 525 gr piledrivers to 1745 fps with a healthy charge of RL-7, even with my old original'86 made in year 1893 I shoot a 500 gr flat nosed grease groove bullet over black powder for a velocity of 1245 fps, I love heavy bullets in all calibers.

And yes, the shooter does his or her part, the 45-70 will never disappoint.

.444 not have cool factor? That is a gross misstatement

if you are sitting on the 444 fence, read this and get your blood pumping:

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

".444 Marlin- America's Most Versatile Big-Bore Part I "

45-70 is the king of available factory loads but the .444 is also a great cartridge.....I am going another way just for chits and giggles and am currently looking for a new BLR takedown in .450 Marlin......Hb

444 is just so damn sweet. I prefer 265 Hornady FP , H4891 , and Starline brass. 1977 S model shoots sub moa for everyone that gets behind it. Sweeeeet.

yup all spot on except mine is a 1976

when i bought my first big bore lever i got the 45-70. lots of ammo choices available. i ended up getting a 450 too and it is a hammer and the ammo is about the same price. i would love to get the 375 but ammo and brass is a problem.

Buy one of each if possible, and if not, flip a coin. They are both great rounds, but I'm more partial to the .444. I prefer the .375 Winchester over either really.

Honestly, even though I know all three are more powerful, blood trails on deer with my 30/30's are usually shorter.

Iv killed alot of whitetails, with a 45-70, a Big Black bear and a Buffalo! the rem 405 load will do and the recoil is not bad, on the 375 win. wagon now tho!

444 would be my choice for deer.

I've got both. For deer I prefer the .444. My handloads use the Speer 270 gr. Good Dot. I've been very happy with the results.

I have had a 444, and still have a 45-70 and a 375, for a first timer I recommend the 45-70 for the reasons stated here. plenty of ammo choices from mild to wild and the original 405 grain Remington will take any deer that walks the earth. The other two will try your patience ( and pocket book) getting reloading stuff and factory ammo.

Ammo for 444 and reloading components ain't hard to find. Hornady Superformance 265 $26.00 a box found using ammoseek.com. Hornady and the mucho great Starline brass is easy to find. Bullets are everywhere.

I have both and both will kill deer the same. Personally like the 444 myself.

44 Willie says "444"

I've got a Marlin 45-70. Great gun but I don't really lean on it, as far as ammo pressure goes. I typically run closer to trapdoor loads, or a little more.

If I were going to run a Marlin hot, I'd prefer the 444, as it has more steel around the chamber.

The 45-70s do let go now and then if one gets too adventurous.

I've had a 444 Marlin around 30 years ago. I wanted to shoot cast bullets in it. It worked fine. Never tried jacketed bullets. I am buying my second 45-70 lever rifle (Win and Marlin). Both the 444 and the 45-70 will put a big hole all the way through a deer.

So, IMHO, it comes down to ammo availability. If you don't reload, you should for either of these cartridges.

A 35 Remington will kill deer very well too. Although I have cast bullet molds for 35, I'd use 200 grain jacketed on deer.

A 358 Win would be more powerful - enough easily for bigger game. Again I'd use jacketed bullets.

There's many many others that would do very well too. A BLR in 308 would make a lot of sense if you don't reload.

45-70, no question.

Both good choices IMO--if whitetail is your game then both have more than ample power--my pref if given those two options would be 45-70--you can really take anything down with that venerable round. As for me, I like the 348 platform--only one choice of rifle but a great round--you can also hot rod it to a .458 or .510--yeah, fun to shoot the big bore levers!

I would like to mention that I shot a couple of deer with that 45-70 I had. I used the Hornandy 300 JHP's. Those bullets were running purdy fast, hence they acted like BlitzKings. I would have stepped up to the 350 grainers (stouter) but for deer, meh. Go 444.

Speer 300 grain Unicor would've solved your problems with frangibility.

Then you have to find ammo, which right now is basically impossible. OP specifically said he doesn't reload. There's not even any brass for .348 right now.

The weak spot in the 336 action is not the chamber walls. The weakness is bolt thrust increasing headspace and stretching the action around the ejection port window. The lack of an ejection port on the Win 1886, along with the big locking bars, is the reason it can be loaded about 8-10KPSI hotter.

If you look at some of these examples of KB'd 1895s, it's pretty obvious where they let go. There is a weak spot at the chamber/receiver junction.

In the grand scheme of things, that probably is the 'best' place for a first point of failure, to keep bolts out of skulls.




https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...kaboom&imgrc=_&spf=1499189986100

Hope I didn't seem argumentative, as I don't disagree wit the ejection port contributing to the overall weakness there.

Mostly just expounding on why I don't push the 1895 at all.