Anyone shoot the 430gr HSM bear loads in a Henry H010?

Neither Henry or HSM will come out and say it is safe. The chamber pressure (according to HSM) is 40,000 PSI which doesn't
seem that excessive for a brand new rifle.

I want to use the loads for black bear over bait.

Thanks,

BH63

If you look through this guy's video list, he puts some of the hotter ammo through his new Henry 45-70.


https://www.youtube.com/user/whatsupitsdabrick/videos?disable_polymer=1

Some of my friends have just used factory 300 or 405 grain factory 45-70 ammo for black bears.

Action is weaker than you'd think.

Black bears will die nicely with lower pressure fodder - they arent hard to kill.

That guy hasn't a clue.

Thanks for the information, I think. LOL

BH63

when you have a tack guy trying to show you how to use a lever gun you should no he is stupid

I find his vids entertaining. I don't think he takes himself too seriously. Breaking up bowling balls with big bores is kind of a giveaway.

Yeah Black bears aint hard to kill, I know a bunch of bear hunters and they kill bears with just about any deer cartridge you can think of, I know a few bear hunters that carry .35 Rem lever guns but most have a bolt action of one flavor or another, .308 Win seems pretty popular.....Good luck...Hb

I have all kinds of guns that would be good for killing black bears, but I want to use the 45-70 Levergun for bears over bait at close range (25-50 yards).

I want something that will break both shoulders of a really big bear and still leave a good blood trail.


Thanks for the responses though.

BH63

As previously stated don't underestimate the penetration of a good cast bullet at moderate velocity...A cast 405 gr bullet would easily do what you require with energy to spare.

Fingers in your ears?

I think you need to shoot your rifle a bit so you can understand what the 45-70 can do. Remington Yellow Box Express (405gr jsp @1200fps) will go through both shoulders of a black bear. Going in 1/2", going out .60".

But you wont be able to learn your rifle or the cartridge unless you reload.

I might give the 405gr Rems a try. They seem awfully slow though. If I hit a little low, I'm not sure they have enough "whump" to break both of the upper legs of a bear. They are really quite dense.

Another option (although pricey) is the Swift 45-70. It has a 350gr partition bullet that is supposed to open up at around 1200 fps. In a 24" barrel they give a MV of around 1700 fps.

I agree I need to shoot the gun some more to see which combinations give the best accuracy.

The KY Ballistics guy was using Underwood +P that ballistically were a little hotter than the HSM +P loads, so I reckon my H010 won't blow up at any rate. LOL

Thanks,

BH63

A 400 grain HC bullet at 1,600 fps is plenty for penetration with exit. Years back Brian Pierce shot through two Cape buffalo with a 405 grain CorBon jacketed solid at 1,700 fps. Large bullets at moderate speeds go deep. Read Linebaugh’s studies on momentum. Most 45-70 ammo is loaded at 35,000 psi with upper magnum loads approaching 40,000 psi range for modern lever action. This is typically the upper limits of safe operation for a Marlin 1895 action. Have to believe Henry can handle the same if entering into the 45-70 market.

I have some 405gr Woodleigh Weldcores that I plan to load to around 1,800fps for Eland and what-not in Zimbabwe next year (I am NOT going to use the 45-70 for the Cape Buffalo portion of the hunt!).

I think that Woodleigh would be a bang-up bullet for big bears.

Henry is not the same design or as strong as the marlin. Best read up on it a bit before pushing it. If I wanted to push the 45-70 it would be in a #1 or marlin.

I have shot thru a 400lb plus Black Bear, and a 1300 Bison with the 405 Remmys out of a 1886 win, light rifle built in 1901 dam wish I still have the one!

Never pushed anything. Exactly where have you read that the Henry H010 45-70 can not handle lever action 45-70 SAAMI loadings. Loading data for the 45-70 is in three distinct categories "trapdoor", "modern lever guns" and "Ruger No. 1". I can't believe that Henry design engineers were not diligent enough to produce a firearm that meets the modern lever SAAMI loading. Of which the H010 is the most recent modern to join the game. I find it hard to believe that any SAAMI loading suitable for a Marlin wouldn't be suitable for a Henry. The Winchester 86, 71 and 94 are all designed a bit stouter than either Henry or Marlin. Do you believe Garrett or Buffalo Bore lever loads exceed SAAMI specs, they don't.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ALL THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I saw a guy shoot a 1100 lb Bison/Buffalo in the chest with a 45-70 Sharps with a 500 gr cast lead bullet loafing along at 1240 fps, the bull turned a half circle and fell dead, the skinners found the bullet in the bulls pelvis, that's near six and a half feet of penetration.

Were I to hunt black bear with a 45-70, it'd be with either my original 1886 Winchester or Sharps rifle, both rifles would be firing the 500 grain Jerry Dean flat nosed cast bullet at 1235 fps, any black bear that ever lived wouldn't hold that bullet from any conceivable angle to the vitals.

Thanks for all the great replies.

I went ahead and sprung for the Swift A-frames. According to Swift's specs, the 45-70 350 gr A-frame kicks out at about 1771 fps and will start expanding at 1200 fps and will handle speeds of 2600 fps. They claim 95% weight retention.

My Henry has an 18.5" barrel so I suspect my MV might be a little closer to 1500 fps, but that should have plenty of oomp to break both shoulders of a black bear within 50 yards or so.

I will use the HSM 430 grs as a back up JIC load.

Again thanks.

I will let you know how the bullet performed (providing I get a shot).

BH63

I bet you wont recover that A-Frame either, imho, among the very best for jacketed lead core bullets, good luck on your hunt!

My short bbl. Henry likes the Barnes 300gr TSX with 48gr. of H4198
Or the Speer 400gr with 49gr of H4198.
Both loads are accurate.

I'd guess that a slow poke 405 grain lead slug going at about 1,250 fps would be fully capable of taking out two bear if one could line them up.

Last week I punched through the shoulders on two hogs with a 405 grain round flat nose bullet. One hog was at 16 yards, and the other was at 120 yards. Both bullets penetrated cleanly, splintered the shoulders, and tore open the tops of the lungs as well. Both hogs plopped over and kicked only their hind legs for five to seven seconds when hit. I could not find the bullets. This was over 50.5 grains of Varget, and were only going 1600 fps at the muzzle. I hope this helps.

Thanks for the information and good wishes. Now all I gots to do is
get that dang bear to hold still for a second so I can cap his broad azz.



BH63

We've shot the HSM Bear load out of my Marlin. Pretty fierce.

Are you basing this statement on data and/or experience, or is this just opinion?

The Henry H010 I have seems to be constructed fairly strong and the Henry the guy in vid is shooting doesn't seem to be blowing up with the heavy loads he is using.

Unless you have owned the H010 and had issues with it, or know of someone who has had issues with one using a hot load, than your statement lacks merit.

BH63

Thanks.

I have killed 3 Cape Buff using 400gr Swift A-Frames and they performed flawlessly!
Hopefully these will work as good as the others.

BH63

I bet they are. 430 gr at about 1800 fps is getting pretty close to an elephant load!

Tony Sanchez-Arino stated in his book "Last Of The Few" that a 400 gr bullet at at least 2000 fps is what he considers an adequate load for elephant.

BH63

Welcome, a few years ago I did indeed build a heavy load for my 45-70, although, it was a 26" barreled Marlin Cowboy, the 525 gr Beartooth Pile Driver bullets at 1744fps sized to .459" over a stiff charge of RL-7 plowed through everything I shot them at.

Up to an including a 2000 lb old dead breeder bull chained and hanging from the loader of my JD tractor, I shot that bull from 15 to about 60 yards and at most every conceivable angle with one exit after another, the load was accurate and the rifle handled it with ease.

That Beartooth bullet, or any of its equivalents, can go through a huge amount of animal. An absolute bone-breaker, too.

The PDjr is no slouch, either. I have some of the "Lites", a 350 grain version with the same nose profile, but I haven't fired any, yet.

I just happened to receive this reply from Henry today:

Thank you for your interest in Henry rifles.



Our .45-70s do not use locking lugs; instead they use a locking bolt.



The .45-70 action is a strong as the modern Marlin 1895 action, and can use the same ammunition.




Technical Customer Service


So I should be okay if I decide to use the HSM +P loads (which HSM states are safe to shoot in Marlin 1895s).

Again thanks for all the good advice!

BH63

FYI, that's a change in policy. They wouldn't say buffalo bore was ok to use when they first came out. The 430gr at 1900 fps are interesting.

If both shoulders are broken one will likely not need to trail the animal.

Like said above some 405's going at about 1,250 fps will be enough to end to end two bear if one can line them up. Try it on some water filled milk jugs. A 300 Win Mag will likely do 4 jugs. The 45-70 maybe 18 to 20.

I stepped 405's in my Guide Gun up to around 1,750 fps. It is interesting to shoot, even more fascinating for me to watch others take it on. I need to find someone to shoot up the remaining 85 rounds I loaded up. There is absolutely no need to hot rod a 45-70.

If you're going to do so, just load up about 5 rounds and give them a try. They kick like Hell, and one can also feel serious torque when lighting them off. One is getting well into the 458 Win Mag with a hot load and those huge slugs.

Good luck with the bear. No spring tag for me this season.

Bit of trivia: A 405gr bullet at 1800fps has the same momentum as a 270gr @2700fps. The latter is a 375 H&H. So if you feel prepared with a 10lb 375H&H, you could be just as prepared with a 7lb 45-70 Guide Gun.

My friend has used the 350RN going about 1800( IMR 4198) in his Marlin 1895 since around '74. Gets plenty of penetration/big wound channels on both elk and mule deer. I used the same load in several 45-70s I've played with, its accurate. Incidentally, my "average yardage) on cow elk out here is 190yds. ( 30-06, 338WM, 375 H&H) lots of fun using big magnums, but I could have killed any of them with a good 45-70. God luck to you pard!

I've shot elk & moose with my standard 45-70 load for years of a 400 grain hardcast (BNH:18) bullet over IMR3031 @ a modest 1750 fps.
POI velocity is usually between 1550-1600 fps.
Not a single animal needed a second shot and they dropped within 5 yds of the POI.
My 45-70 rifle is a Marlin 1895GS but I have a Henry All-weather Big Boy in 44 mag which is a superb deer killer pushing 265 grain Hornady flat nose SPs over H110.

No need to break your shoulder or the gun to take any North American game with the 45-70 including the great bears.
Fairly modest loads with good bullets will do the job.
A friend of mine (a lot richer than me - owns 3 garage/gas stations) shot an Alaskan brown bear a few years back with a Marlin 1895 45-70 identical to mine from about 50 yds.
He was shooting a Woodleigh 405 grain flat nose bullet at 1850 fps ... not a shoulder shattering load by any means.
The bear was dead on the ground less than 10 yds from the POI.

Yep.

A good, hard cast 400 gr at 1,500 fps will roll a bear. Those old Sharps didn't shoot any faster and they killed a bunch of stuff, big stuff and at long range.

When I stared loading and shooting the 45-70 many moons ago, I thought I had to get the last few fps out of my loads. After a "Weatherby trademark" and some eyebrow sutures, I realized I didn't need to go there.

I have Piledriver and Piledriver Jr. bullets on order from Beartooth. I'm gonna see what they do in my Marlin Cowboy. https://beartoothbullets.com/open_sight/archive_open_sight.htm/21

Those will blow thru most critters walking the N.A. Continent. I've been reading too many of gunner500's posts...

DF

I have used the PJ jrs at just under 1700 fps, and they do just what you say....blow right through.

I shot a black bear years ago with a near dead-soft 385 gr cast bullet. Both shoulders were mushed, full gushing penetration, the animal flattened at the shot. But moments later it arched its back and raised its useless fore end off the ground and disappeared into the thick stuff for 50 yds or so before expiring. The load was a mild 1500 or so load (around 45 gr) of H322.