I always read that the original 1873's were considered weak actions, and only blackpowder equivalent loads should be shot in them. I notice now there are some very attractive 1873 replicas out there, in useful calibers like .45 Colt. How strong are these modern reproductions? I have plenty of high powered rifles, and am not trying to make a .348 Winchester out of it, but it would be nice to be able to shoot "safe in Ruger" equivalent loads out of one.

Thanks!

I wouldn't. There just isn't much in there. It's nothing like a 92 or 94 on the inside.

I doubt it would blow up in your face over just a few shots. But I would expect continued use would greatly reduce the life of the rifle and you would end up with headspace problems and eventually a failure of the toggle link mechanism. Either of which would make for a very bad shooting day.

I dont think the question of steel quality is the deciding factor, I think its the design itself that doesn't safely lend itself to stouter loads. I would stay within blackpowder limits due to the design.

I wouldn't recommend a '73 for those loads. It's a toggle action and isn't suited to stout loads.

You don't want to be pulling the firing pin extension out of your eye.

I've seen one go before, it doesn't blow off the side plates but rather comes back over the hammer to exit.

Rule # 1

....NEVER fire a "Recently acquired" '73, without making sure that BOTH links are in their appointed place.

I know of several that have turned up at Az. gun shows with only one link in place.

Dittos on all the rest,........a low pressure gun,......and fun in that context.

keep things mild.

GTC

Stick with the safe in Colt references. Not Ruger.
There is a member in another forum that said he has used a 73 replica in 45LC to harvest many head of whitetail. Don't be too quick to belittle the 45 in standard factory loadings.

Why not just get a Marlin '94 or one of the Winchester '92 clones?

If you want to maximize the effectiveness of the older '73 action, or the '66 for that matter, you have to use Black Powder.

I have an 'Iron' framed Henry in .44-40 and I'm here to tell you, keeping the loads in the black powder power level does not in any way detract from the shooting fun of these guns! They are accurate and if'n I was to find myself in the presence of a wild hog or deer out to 50 yards, I'd feel well armed. My load fires a 210 grain cast bullet at 1200fps and it slams the steel plates off the pedestal with enough authority to suggest we aren't losing anything in the long run.

Dan

I realize this is an old thread, however, I woud like to comment that the new 1873's are chambered for the .357 magnum. So, While you should use common sense in reloading, as previously mentioned, having the rifles factory chambered in .357 suggests that the 1873's are stronger than what most people think.

Keep in mind that the trust rearward against the locking lugs is a function of the area of the case rim. The .45 Long Colt has quite a bit more base area (56% more) than the .357 magnum. Therefore rearward thrust will be 56% greater in the .45 Colt.

The "old" BP .44 WCF AKA .44-40 has put more venison on the table than any "moderen" rifle even the 30-30. and it has only come back to partial notice in the last thirty years or so.

The latest versions of the Uberti 1873 (& 1866) lever guns have been updated in the area of firing pin extension retainer parts.
Earlier models ( I don't KNOW exactly when the update occurred) are potentially dangerous.
The firing pin extension at the area where the crosspin retains the firing pin extension to the bolt has been changed to incorporate an odd shaped wedge that eliminates the possibility of the assembly "coming apart" and subsequently allowing the firing pin extension to launch itself rearward into the shooter's face.
1866 rifles suffered the same problematic engineering.
Uberti fixed the problem in thier rifles, and I do believe that the updated parts will retro-fit into earlier Uberti '73s & '66s.
DON'T expect that these parts will fit or function in any other manufacturer's firearms.
If you are in doubt as to which series of parts your gun uses, study up and dismantle/ verify -or- take the gun to a knowledgable gunsmith and have it checked out.
DON'T let any one poo-poo this safety problem or talk you into disreguarding this warning. When I stated "potentially dangerous" I was not referring to "hot" or "Ruger only" loads, I am speaking of every day normal usage of the firearm with ANY ammunition what so ever.
Don't screw around, check it out and change it if it hasn't been performed already. Your safety is of everyone's utmost concern.

I have a question to ask concerning this. We shoot 44 mags in revolvers with no rear head support.Now is the straight case grabbing the chamber wall? Do the old tapered WCF cases have more backthrust? I never really wanted a 73 until I picked one up and its now on the list.
Sorry for the late post but this just came to mind.

This is pulled from July 24th question about 1873 replica strength.

'The 1873 action was not a strong one when it was designed, but it did fine for the black powder pistol cartridges available at that time.

Wait and find a more modern design if you want .44 magnum ballistics from a lever gun. Even with the modern steels used for today's replicas, the '73 is comparatively weak in its lockup.

John Browning later designed beefier actions for more powerful cartridges, but the '73 is limited.

See John Taffin's book Action Shooting Cowboy Style, p.255, "The 1866 and 1873 are smooth, but they are not strong. Do Not, Repeat, DO NOT use anything other than standard loads in the 1860, the 1866 , or even in the 1873 Winchester replicas." His emphasis.'

These replica toggle-link guns are made of better steel, but they still have a major handicap in their design once you enter the smokeless era. Play it safe; the replica 1873s are made for playing the "Cowboy Game".

ALL replica rifles from Italy are proof tested to specific CIP limits...you can find those limits by searching, usually in the sellors link or online.

Those limits are well within safe limits for the specific rifle and you can load to those levels. If the rifle is chambered in a specific cartridge it is safe to fire that cartridge...if it isn't chambered in that cartridge or to a lower level than what you desire, then let your level of survival instinct reign.

I have a very high level of self preservation that has kept my fat body intact all these years...so guess what I would do...you do what you want.

Luck

The toggle link action, as stated before, isn't a real strong design. It's not as strong as the Marlin, which isn't as strong as the '92 clones.

Uberti does list a .44 mag 1873 rifle, so they must have worked on the steel and one would think it's strong enough for that round. Surely their lawyers wouldn't let them sell an unsafe rifle.

That said, I wouldn't shoot a whole bunch of full power .44 mag ctgs in that gun. And, for sure, no reloads with heavy bullets. I would think factory loads and reloaded equivalents would be about all that gun should see.

For a .44 mag carbine, there are better options. One of the best is the Miroku Browning/Winchester '92 that was offered a few years back. I'd be looking for one of those used. Otherwise, I'd get a Marlin. An older one, not a new one.

IMHO,

DF

the 73 design has a Bolt not much larger than a pencil, and actually no locking lugs, action depends on 1/4" diameter pins to lockup and headspace, which may or may not be the weakest part, as it also has most of the sides of the action cut out with "windows and thin steel side covers, I have fired many rounds throug originals and repros, never felt safe firing the originals with anything but blackpowder, and the repros wit BP equivalent smokeless loads, never thought the 357 safe, had 1 but only shot 38 spec in it,others may tell you different, but take a look inside, not a lot there!

The Rossi model 92s are leaps and bounds stronger than the best 1873's. If you want the gun for ocassional hunting with Buffalo Bore strong loads, get a model 92. If you're a gung ho competitive Cowboy shooter , the 1873 with tricked up action and mild loads is unbeatable in a lever gun.

Right.

The '92 is a terrible CAS gun because it wasn't made to run fast. It stove pipes and jams when pushed. 92's can be slicked up fairly well, but they will never run with the "fast dogs".

The '73 a terrible gun for hot loads due to the inherent weakness of the toggle link design.

But, the JMB designed '92 is super stong, even stronger than the Marlin. And the '73 is the slickest, fastest lever gun, bar none, for CAS.

Just gotta decide what you want to do and pick the right gun for the job.

IMHO.

DF

If speed is the objective the Colt Lightning replicas are the fastest.

I have a USFA Lightning in .38-40. If they were the answer, or were that good, you'd see a lot more on the line. '73's rule with top shooters.

DF

About the 73 replica strongness: some years ago while practicing with a friend on shooting range, came another guy we knew, member of french and US CAS chapter.

He showed us is new buy, an original 73 rifle in 44WCF. Finding a place on the range he began to shoot, trying to hammer steel gongs.
All his shots were high. The noise was thundering, the speed looked "speedy" and the impact in the berm was closer to big bore gun than 44WCF.
After 25 cartridges we came to look WTF was going on.

Not too much trained in reloading and assuming the large case capacity our "stuntman friend" was shooting 44WCF loaded with spherical powder close to H110, to the 44mag power level with 200grs lead bullets.

We stopped him immediatly, scanning the old rifle for breakage. Nothing to note, no play, no crack, nothing, except strong leading.

So, not to promote such dumbness i think 73 in good shape are far more stronger than we commonly think.

Normaly with the better steel used today, the closer tolerances of manufacture and the slight modifications any modern 73 repro of good quality like the Uberti, can be used safely with the more powerful CAS loads and even a bit more if you need it.

Dom

Yeah, Dom.

Just cause they got away with it for a while doesn't make it a real smart idea. There are just too many better choices than to hot rod an old classic, or a clone for that matter.

The way the gun is made with toggle links, I don't think it would be pretty when it finally did give it up.

It's quite amazing how CAS has caught on in Europe. I think that's really neat.

DF

This, and I load this level in a vintage 1892. You gain nothing in effectiveness by loading hotter. For a while we loaded warmer 200 jacketed loads for the Rossi 1892 for hunting.
It was not worth it.

I'd never approach Ruger #1 loads with any lever action ever made.

The 92 is a shorter and actually stronger version of the 1886. If you wanted, you could safely run it pretty close to modern bolt gun pressures. I'd be more worried about the brass than the gun. It is strong.

That said, why? But if the point is a hot 45 Colt then get a modern 92.

Both Uberti and Winchester chamber their model 73 in .44 Magnum. The modern 73's can handle factory .44 magnum pressures. This is a far cry from black powder .44 wcf pressures.

As for the 73 being a weak design, I think a lot of people just looked at it and thought that looks weak. Actual testing by Winchester on the '76 (same design) showed that they could not destroy a receiver with tremendous amounts of powder and several bullets in the bore. Eventuallu the barrel burst in front of the chamber. The receiver was unharmed, even the smaller pins etc. Testing on a '73 was done, to the point of removing a togg;e link and firin it, and the rifle handled it fine. Removing both toggle links resulted in the action partly opening on firing but no more.
The design itself is stronger than people think.

The Rossi '92 despite not being the finest machined weapon of modern times is really very stout. Rossi produced them in 454 Casul which operates some loads at 60000 PSI. This is the type of pressure seen in things like the WSMs in bolt guns. I dont think they produce them anymore due to company changes. That and recoil in a <5# carbine with a bitty cresent buttplate is really to be experienced. The fierce recoil also causes problems with the magazine tube which is normally held in place by friction and a shallow lot receiving a cross screw and the tip of the cap screw into a dimple in the barrel. Recoil really shakes that apart.
One of these slicked up can be competitive in CAS, but the '73 is still king.

Rossi '92's can be a bit rough out of the box.

If I was going to get one, I'd buy it from Steve Jones, the '92 guru. Steve's price is basically wholesale plus his work, which is cheaper than buying the gun, then sending it to him.

One of his '92's is a heap slicker than one out of the box.

The '92, as mentioned earlier, is super strong, thus you see the 454 Casul chambering. That doesn't mean I want to shoot a light weight Rossi '92 with full house Casul loads. Just 'cause it can doen't mean I want to...

Steve's link. http://stevesgunz.com/

He did work for me on a 1910 '92. I've seen him at CAS matches.

DF

Last year I hunted deer exclusively with a Uberti '73 in a .45 Colt; not because I didn't have other deer rifles, but because it was so much fun to shoot and was more accurate than its design suggested it ought to be! I shot two deer, both does; one big and one small with a "home cast" 255gr lead bullet (an added benny). I had complete penetration and anchored both within 10 yards of the shot (fat "meplat"). One was shot at about 65 yards and the other about 50.
I believe that "noted", writer/rancher, Brian Pearce has done a fair amount of research on the strength of the '73 action and has corresponded several times with Uberti's "tech department" on the design, improvements, and testing regarding .357, .44 Mag, and .45 Colt criteria and limits to give highly "credible" advice on "maximum" pressures when loading. He has stated (paraphrasing) that although Uberti markets a .44 mag '73 with factory pressures much higher than recommended for other calibers in that model, it has different steels in "critical" stress areas not present in .44WCF (44/40), .357, or .45 Colt models. With that said, he considers Ken Water's "Pet Loads Level II" for .45 Colt pistols the maximum pressure level for this design, which is about 2500PSI more than the old "Black Power" Level I loads. Considering that most '73's have considerably longer barrels than that used on most pistols, I find that my own 20" barrel will launch a 250 or 255gr lead or jacketed bullet at between 1200 and 1300fps with loads listed for Colt pistol, not Rugers and T/C Contenders. If I use Brian's criteria, I can safely reach 1400fps without much difficulty, although not needed, and find the most difficult reloading criteria is Cartridge Overall Length to work well in the short action of the '73. The 255gr SWC is bigger (wider), heavier, and as fast as a 240gr "pill" out of a .44 Mag ; and since we see many "pistoleros" declare this combination deadly on game much larger than our average Whitetail deer that should be sufficient for most hunting in the "bush". IMHO, there is no reason to try and make the "old" Colt round into a .454, I've done that in a Marlin and when you reach the "max juice" (mine was 1550fps with a 300gr cast bullet) neither trajectory or accuracy was greatly improved over normal hunting distance. This experiment, which turned a mild round into a "mini" 45/70 made a fun shooter a different "animal" altogether. If you want a fun deer and hog gun that will work about as far as you can accurately shoot with iron sights, and is one of the "slickest" actions ever made, the 73 may just be your "Huckleberry" (an apt metaphor by another aficionado of the Tombstone kind on this post).

This past, 2018, year, I shot a new Taylor Comanchero (Uberti) in CAS matches. I scratched the itch and the bug didn't stick. Sold my SxS and SASS revolvers. Decided to keep the 1873 a bit longer to hunt deer before selling it. It's a beautiful rifle with great wood, elk leather butt and lever wrapped and a 20" octagon barrel. I installed a taller front sight to help with impact. Shot only bunny fart loads running my own 215 gr Lee RNFP and 5 gr Trailboss. As the fall approached, I took both my 230 gr FN LBT and 284 gr WFN LBT molds and cast up a supply for testing and hunting. Air cooled wheel weights gave about 12 BHN; IIRC. Searched the interned for confirmed "Colt" level (14,000 psi) loads for both the 230 gr and 270 gr RCBS 45-270-SAA (weighs 280) bullets. Test 15 common 45 Colt powders for the 230 gr and 9 common powders for the 284 gr. With the 230 gr I got anywhere from 746 fps with Titegroup to 1182 fps with Alliant 28/20. Five shot groups at 50 yds ran anywhere from .875" to 4.6". If I were to hunt with the 230 gr FN I would choose 10.5 gr of AA #5 for 1123 fps and it just happened to give the .825" 5-shot group. The 284 gr WFN ran the gamut from 887 fps, again with Titegroup to 1174 fps with Longshot. Five shot groups ran from .625" with AA #5 to 5.5" with HS-6. I settled on the 9.5 gr Longshot load giving 1176 fps for a 1.375" 5-shot group at 50 yds. With a 100 yd zero, I was 2" high at 50 and 2" low at 125 yds, my self imposed max range. My 60 yr old eyes just don't decern the fine detail like the use to.

I decided to hunt the 284 gr load of Longshot. About a month back I ran up behind my house, up on the bench, right after work to pop this doe at a layered 101 yds. The shot went a skootch high as the light was fading (old eyes) but it broke her spike directly above the line which goes down behind the shoulder. She dropped in her tracks and slid about 5 yds down through the snow. A follow up shot from 40 yds was necessary. Both shots cut a, eat right up to the hole, swath clean through her.

I'm now hoping to use it for cow elk.

I'm torn between selling the rifle as planned or possibly using it for cow elk, which when the snow is deep, also come down to the bench behind my house. Decisions...Decisions.

Alan

That looks like a pretty "fun" rifle. I'd have a hard time letting it go.