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Posted By: Dess Planning First Trip to SD - 01/30/21
Got back from a dismal pheasant hunting trip in eastern Colorado. Reality is there just aren't many birds.

Conditions were perfect for finding birds. Snowing lightly first day...easy to see tracks. Nothing in CRP grasses. Nothing in shelter belts. Nothing in corn.
Second day, not snowing and sunny, but still fresh snow for bird signs and tracks. Lots and lots of bunny, mice, and tiny bird tracks. Saw two birds flushing a couple of hundred yards away.
Last day, snow starting to melt. Found a few tracks in wheat stubble adjacent to shelter belts and picked corn. Kicked up a hen.
No dog on public land is tough...I understand. Willing to put in the work for an opportunity for a bird, but if they just aren't there, I'm wasting my time.

So...looking for recommendations or first hand knowledge of a local sportsman, outfitter, or company to book a trip with myself and my brother. Not at all interested in hunting with large orange clad army groups marching up and down fields. Fence rows and small patches are just fine.
No stocked birds. If I need a pheasant that badly, I'll go to the butcher.
Dogs ok, I miss my GSP, and enjoy watching a good dog work.
Guides are handy but not vital. As long as I'm not trespassing or interfering with someone's farming, I'm low maintenance. Someone to give me a ride back to my truck is nice...and appreciated.
Don't need a five star hotel. Clean and friendly just fine. Not a big drinker.

Thoughts? Anything I should know or whom to avoid?
Posted By: WiFowler Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 01/30/21
Full disclosure - I've never hunter pheasants in SD, but it has always piqued my interest.

Have you looked at the SD Fish & Game web site? Last time I looked - quiet a while ago - they either offered free or sold a booklet that mapped out public/walk-in lands. One thing I noted about SD pheasant hunting was that it appears that need to be really conscious of where you are at and the possible requirement for non-toxic ammo.
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 01/30/21
Lots of statements about what you don't want. I don't really understand what you DO want. If you can put that into words, I can give some guidance.
Posted By: Dess Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 01/30/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
Lots of statements about what you don't want. I don't really understand what you DO want. If you can put that into words, I can give some guidance.



Fair enough.

Just wanting to have an opportunity to walk some fields with my brother and a friend. See enough wild birds to stay alert. Pivot corners, fence rows, ditches, smaller fields, and shelter belts.

Probably just my brother and I. Maybe one more person for a total of 3. No fuss, no muss. We'll be sober, on time, on site, and ready to go.
Probably 3 hunting days. Just pheasant and perhaps quail. No waterfowl planned unless hunting near cattails and it is suggested we get waterfowl stamps and steel shot.

Local person who knows the area, laws, and practices. Someone who does a great job with a solid reputation. Open to just about anything from a high school kid looking to make a few easy bucks to an old farmer who wants a little cash without worrying about his gates and livestock.

Perhaps a guide just starting out who knows their stuff but hasn't got the online reviews and presence yet. I'd love to hunt behind a good dog, but that's not a deal breaker.

Point us in the right direction on the correct field and let us find birds.

Reasonable but fair pricing. Some things I've seen online are $500 (or more) per person each day. I realize you are paying for knowledge and expertise, but I just can't afford those prices. Neither should someone be expected to babysit a group all day for $50.

I am inclined to support local business, motels and restaurants in favor of chain stores. So if a person knows a great motel or restaurant that doesn't get the attention they deserve, I'd be happy to support them too.
Small towns without the hype are definitely worthy of consideration.





























Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 01/31/21
A few thoughts in return:

No one worth spending your time and effort with is taking you hunting, without dogs. Why would you go without? I can't imagine. I think I'd pass over that thought.
No need to worry about waterfowl. The licensing requirements are too tough to navigate unless it's your primary goal. Let that one go, too.
Reasonable but fair, is set by the landowner, so you'll have to pay what they ask. You'll spend a lot of time trying to find a bargain, and then it won't be one.
What's your definition of small town? No shortage of them. To me that's fewer than 1000 people.
I can't think of a farm which isn't a multi-million dollar operation. How important is your $100/day? IDK.
Posted By: Dess Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/01/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
A few thoughts in return:

No one worth spending your time and effort with is taking you hunting, without dogs. Why would you go without? I can't imagine. I think I'd pass over that thought.
No need to worry about waterfowl. The licensing requirements are too tough to navigate unless it's your primary goal. Let that one go, too.
Reasonable but fair, is set by the landowner, so you'll have to pay what they ask. You'll spend a lot of time trying to find a bargain, and then it won't be one.
What's your definition of small town? No shortage of them. To me that's fewer than 1000 people.
I can't think of a farm which isn't a multi-million dollar operation. How important is your $100/day? IDK.



Ok. I appreciate the help and interest. I honestly do. Just trying to not waste someone's time by babysitting just a couple of guys when they could be more efficient with larger groups. Also, larger groups don't want to waste their time on small plots packed shoulder to shoulder.

Dogs are great. If that's the norm, so be it. Probably akin to a fishing guide without a boat isn't the fishing guide you'd want. It's just not a deal breaker for me.

My idea of small town is comparable to yours. At the very most, a stoplight or two. Cafe, diner, restaurant, or bar and grill somewhere within 15 miles shouldn't be a problem.

I certainly don't want to insult a landowner by being cheap. Value to both is my goal, but it is a moving figure. If higher rates but stellar integrity is a better value, then I'm willing to pay.

If, in your opinion a reputable outfitter would be best, whom do recommend, and what types of services are essential for you?

Found a few links from the South Dakota Game and Fish office. https://gfp.sd.gov/plan-your-adventure/ Is this a good starting place in your opinion? If the outfitters are indeed reputable, it's just a matter of comparison between them. If some of them aren't, I'd rather not find out the hard way.

Some sites in the Chamberlain area such as "Wingmaster Lodge" for example simply has a facebook page with little or no detail or pricing. "Rooster Ridge Hunting Lodge" has rates of $2195 per hunter that includes pool table, hot tub, and maid service. "Allen's Hunting and Fishing Guide Service" is $1150 per hunter but doesn't provide meals. Just based on these three alone, I'm inclined towards Allen's. This is why I'm open to other alternatives, and opinions by people who actually deal with these operations long after the hunting season is over.

I too am a land owner with a small piece of land with some prime turkey and deer habitat. 35 acres is enough for myself, but not much more. A local outfitter who has their own property thinks nothing of trespassing with his clients. He would rather ask for forgiveness than permission. A couple of years ago, he and his party were using dogs to start their mountain lion hunt on private property. It continued through my private property and near homes. A pissed off lion chased by dogs is a recipe for disaster to an unsuspecting homeowner. He has also directed his big game clients onto private property because he thought the owners weren't home and wouldn't find out. His idea of a successful hunt is filling a tag by any means ethical or not. That's the type of outfit I want to avoid.

Again, I appreciate your time and insight.
Posted By: CGPAUL Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/01/21
First, I haven` hunted SD now for four years, but had hunted there, out of Redfield, stayed at the Wilson, for more than 30 yrs. so have some idea..
Can you and your brother walk? Maybe 5-7 miles a day? If so, walk the ditches along the back roads, next to good cover. It`s free, you can call your place to hunt, and you really don`t need a dog, tho they do come in handy. By walking the ditches, the birds are confined to the ditch..tho not always..so you can cover it very well. IME, birds tend to sit close, and can flush right under your feet. Should you drop a bird on private land, you do an unarmed retreive. My brother and I have hunted this way for years..no pressure from other hunters either.
I`ve walked for 5 minutes and filled, and I`ve walked for 8 miles, sections, and not. Depends. Hop-scotch with the truck, drop your brother at the end of a section, park at the other end, walk that section while your brother drives past and parks at the next. Tell one another which way your going.
In the morning, if the sun is out, walk West or North..you can see colors better that way, after noon, walk East and North.

Good Luck.
Posted By: battue Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/01/21
Understand that with most of your SD hunting "Lodges" you will be hunting stocked Birds....They can't be bringing in 20 or so hunters a week and shooting wild Birds...They try to keep it under the table, but most "salt" the fields.

You need to google "Bird Dog Bunkhouse" .... The owner occasionally posts on here.

I'd find a three legged Greyhound to bring along before I went without a Dog..
Posted By: dukxdog Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/01/21
Originally Posted by battue
Understand that with most of your SD hunting "Lodges" you will be hunting stocked Birds....They can't be bringing in 20 or so hunters a week and shooting wild Birds...They try to keep it under the table, but most "salt" the fields.

You need to google "Bird Dog Bunkhouse" .... The owner occasionally posts on here.


BDB is my place. Battue is as good of a reference as I can get. Most of my guys have now returned for several seasons. That speaks volumes for how good a place is. All birds are wild and it's real hunting. My prices are reasonable. My service is excellent. PM me if interested. I will give you my number so we can talk answering any questions.

Thanks Battue!
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/01/21
While Battue's comment about "salting" the fields is accurate, its also true that stocked birds will wild up in all circumstances. Some take longer than others but it does happen. The more wild birds around, the sooner and easier the parolees will take on their behaviors and attributes. For what its worth.

There are pockets of birds all over the state. A friend told me today that he went out Friday with a group near Milbank. Milbank is way out of the pheasant belt, like 100 miles out. Yet they found a pocket of birds and shot 'em up two weekends in a row. You might find that a good option for you is not in the traditional Mitchell-Chamberlain-Winner-Pierre areas but further north or west or northwest of there.

Dogs are critical to your success, don't discount that. Would you hire an elk guide with no optics? No. No one who knows much about pheasant hunting or does it often would do it without dogs. You have to put up 2-3 times as many birds in front of someone to fill his bag limit. That isn't good for anyone, certainly not the hunters.

IMHO, a guy from out of state with no connections will have to put in more work than its maybe worth to find a place with "all wild birds." YMMV. I think people make it a bigger deal than it is. Every once in a while I'll find one in our bags even where none should theoretically be found. But you should know what you're paying for. I think you're on the right track. Call around and see if you can find a guide who doesn't have his own place but who has arrangements with landowners. Such a guy would be less likely to put out released birds, but it still might happen. No one hunting wild birds will hunt the same plot more than once a week. Or should, anyway. That should be a tip for you.
Posted By: Dess Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/02/21
Originally Posted by CGPAUL
First, I haven` hunted SD now for four years, but had hunted there, out of Redfield, stayed at the Wilson, for more than 30 yrs. so have some idea..
Can you and your brother walk? Maybe 5-7 miles a day? If so, walk the ditches along the back roads, next to good cover. It`s free, you can call your place to hunt, and you really don`t need a dog, tho they do come in handy. By walking the ditches, the birds are confined to the ditch..tho not always..so you can cover it very well. IME, birds tend to sit close, and can flush right under your feet. Should you drop a bird on private land, you do an unarmed retreive. My brother and I have hunted this way for years..no pressure from other hunters either.
I`ve walked for 5 minutes and filled, and I`ve walked for 8 miles, sections, and not. Depends. Hop-scotch with the truck, drop your brother at the end of a section, park at the other end, walk that section while your brother drives past and parks at the next. Tell one another which way your going.
In the morning, if the sun is out, walk West or North..you can see colors better that way, after noon, walk East and North.

Good Luck.



Good posts from everyone. This accurately describes our hunting style. Not many deep ditches here because of local farming practice. We also stay out unless it is clearly marked with a walk-in sign. We often leap frog where one of us will walk, and the other will drive and block. Walking isn't an issue. I have to admit though...walking picked corn with deep furrows is a chore I wouldn't want to do all day.

I understand stocking birds and hunting pressure. I'd rather go home without a bird than have someone plant one. A planted bird who survives a bit on their own probably wises up quickly and isn't tame by any means.

We've also had a bit of success in larger fields. The shouldn't be any cover in the adjacent fields. First, walk up the center effectively bisecting it. As we are walking through the center, we rarely see birds. The goal is to get the birds to move to the edges but not flush. When we reach the end of the field,we then follow the edges around and have success flushing those birds who are now reluctant to go back to the safety of the center of the field. Not perfect by any means, but it works.

Lot of excellent information from everyone and thanks again. I'll get some dates in mind and will try to PM some people if possible.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/11/21
There are plenty of B&Bs near Mitchell or Artesian and I am sure they are elsewhere in the state too.
Lots of state managed ground to hunt with wild birds (though non-toxic shot is required), or a guy could hunt the borrow pits of county roads. You're allowed to trespass (without your shotgun) to retrieve a bird you legally shot from the road ROW. I have shot plenty of wild birds in SD without a dog and without a guide. It is doable for sure if you put the effort in.
Posted By: pointer Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/11/21
Originally Posted by T_Inman
There are plenty of B&Bs near Mitchell or Artesian and I am sure they are elsewhere in the state too.
Lots of state managed ground to hunt with wild birds (though non-toxic shot is required), or a guy could hunt the borrow pits of county roads. You're allowed to trespass (without your shotgun) to retrieve a bird you legally shot from the road ROW. I have shot plenty of wild birds in SD without a dog and without a guide. It is doable for sure if you put the effort in.
I am thinking that Hank and I need to give this a go this year. Might even talk BOY into putting for deer in SD to make it a buck and cock trip!
I would go and stay at Bobby,s place think you will like it. Been there a lot Kurt

https://www.facebook.com/BirdDogBunkhouse57442/
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/11/21
I have no idea why people would come here dogless, and walk the road ditches for pheasants.
Posted By: CGPAUL Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/11/21
Kinda simple..it works. Have had people come up in trucks, stop, and ask who I was hunting with. Seemed put out we were walking the ditches. Did have a couple guys stop and ask where my vehicle was..told them "3 miles south". Looked like both were gonna have heart failure. I was full, they hadn`t fired a shot yet. That was down by Miller.
Course if you`re in the "business" of guiding hunters? walking the ditches isn`t placing money in your pocket.
YMMV
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/12/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
I have no idea why people would come here dogless, and walk the road ditches for pheasants.


If a guy is currently dogless, then he doesn't have a dog to hunt with. After the corn and sorghum fields are cut, birds are much more concentrated where cover remains, which is often along the roads. That, and I like to do it that way.
That's why.
Dess, your talking 3 people pull your head out find a forth ,a guy with a dog that just can't swing the costs by himself , help pay his way you'll get your money back . 2 vehicles ,2 to a vehicle saves time and walking back thru birdless cover. GFP does brood surveys in the summer use their website to see where the birds are. Pick one of those concentrated areas with small town motels and main street restaurants. Right now write the Gfp and ask them for a Walk in Area atlas. These places are free to hunt and don't require non toxic, the atlas will show all other places you can hunt but need non toxic shot. There is more public than you all can cover in the duration of your license. Late in the afternoon the pheasants are often seen in road ditches and the shoulders getting grit for their crops to grind their eats then they go back to roost cover. Mb
Posted By: ribka Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/12/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
A few thoughts in return:

No one worth spending your time and effort with is taking you hunting, without dogs. Why would you go without? I can't imagine. I think I'd pass over that thought.
No need to worry about waterfowl. The licensing requirements are too tough to navigate unless it's your primary goal. Let that one go, too.
Reasonable but fair, is set by the landowner, so you'll have to pay what they ask. You'll spend a lot of time trying to find a bargain, and then it won't be one.
What's your definition of small town? No shortage of them. To me that's fewer than 1000 people.
I can't think of a farm which isn't a multi-million dollar operation. How important is your $100/day? IDK.


$100 a day trespass would be hard to find.
Posted By: battue Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/12/21
Have put up anywhere from 50 to 200 Wild Birds a day out of the road ditches and 2 tracks doing what T_Inman suggests.

I’m a Dog guy.....but you can do without...wouldn’t be all that up on going without a Dog on some of the walk-ins
Dess pm inbound
Tag
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/14/21
Hiring a guide with a dog is a righteous idea, as a dog for sure is nice to have especially for cripples and I too enjoy watching them work. People can't guide on state managed land in SD (I am unsure about federally managed land there), so if you were to go that route it would likely be on private land. Some B&Bs actually rent dogs out to hunters, so there is another option for you. They're not necessary though and I think even a detriment sometimes with late season birds used to running from them. Once I am in a different living situation I for sure want to get another retriever but I have adapted to effectively hunting birds without them. When the crops are cut the birds are forced onto linear features such as fence lines, canal banks and borrow ditches, or the sections that have been conveyed to the state and left for habitat. I usually have no issue getting a limit when I do it the way I want to but it can take quite a bit of walking.

I have been known to glass for them to get an idea of where one is at before walking after it. For the bigger state sections where they're not in concentrated and in predictable spots, tracking them after a fresh snow is a way I have limited out many, many times over the years. Here again, a dog can actually be a detriment as the birds are used to running from them, but sometimes hold tight(er) for a person who is tracking them.

As for planted vs wild birds, I believe the state does plant some and I am sure they get mixed in with wild birds. I have accidentally shot a few of those in Idaho. They're usually easy to spot though as many can barely fly unless they were carryovers. Even if you were to get into some of those planters they're not a put and take kind of hunt.
Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by BKinSD
I have no idea why people would come here dogless, and walk the road ditches for pheasants.


If a guy is currently dogless, then he doesn't have a dog to hunt with. After the corn and sorghum fields are cut, birds are much more concentrated where cover remains, which is often along the roads. That, and I like to do it that way.
That's why.


Ding Ding Ding
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/14/21
It would be my contention that people who come here and walk ditches without a dog would probably have more fun if they stayed home and hunted preserve birds. Come and walk the ditches all you want, you're not competing with me and I'm happy for you. But you probably shouldn't fool others into thinking that you've had some great South Dakota wild bird experience because you did so.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/14/21
Agree to disagree, I guess. The OP is looking for options, which he is getting. If the OP wants the biggest chance for success and not to put nearly as much effort into things, then he's got some great guide and B&B references in this thread to work with.

I have enjoyed myself the few times I have hunted your great state (DIY, both with and without dogs) and did it on my terms. I have yet to not shoot a bunch of pheasants there and felt that I had great experiences.
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/14/21
And I'm honestly happy for you. Welcome anytime, as everyone else would be.

So many times these threads evolve into "Who can hunt pheasants/deer/elk/ducks the cheapest?" and I'm pretty sure that isn't what the OP is looking for.
Posted By: CGPAUL Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/15/21
Man, you evidently haven`t hunted South Dakota.
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/15/21
Me? No, never hunted SD in my life. Just making all this up out of sheer boredom. cool
Dess dude has dumped us I sent him a pm to send him a current WIA Atlas and he isn t looking at his pm's either. Mb
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

I hunt SD every year and I'm in the "3-legged Greyhound" group. The bird in the photo is a case in point. The dog was over hunting with my son and I walked down a shelter belt. The dog then came along behind me and slammed into a point 20 yards back. I had walked just a few feet from them and neither the rooster nor the hen he was with moved a feather. Without the dog I would have never known they were there.

We end up hunting some roadsides from time to time but I am never comfortable doing it -- too many things there that can injure the dog, like broken glass. A dog will walk through broken bottles and not think a thing about it, and take itself out of commission for a month.

I would listen to BK -- either find some quality land to hunt, and a friend with a good dog, or stay home, shoot preserve birds and save a lot of money. I've shot a lot of both wild and preserve pheasants. Within a couple of weeks of being freed a preserve bird is wilded up well enough, and flying strong enough, that you cannot tell them from pure wild birds (until you get a close look and know what to look for). 99% of guys will have a much better hunt at one of the lodges that augments with released birds and provides dogs and handlers than they will walking ditches without a dog, or watching an untrained dog put birds up a hundred yards out.
Posted By: Bugger Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/18/21
I've lived in SD most of my life. Was born and raised here. We used to be able to fill 3 roosters and 2 hens by walking to the end of our corn north of our grove and back, less than 1 mile total.

Now the farming is different. There's less (if any) weeds in the fields and farmers have taken out fence lines, drained the fields with tiles etc.

For a person to find pheasants now, I would suggest mostly East of the Missouri, though pheasant hunting in the south east corner of the land west of the Missouri is good too. Stay away from Sioux Falls and the larger cities and towns, to the most part, for hunting on farm land.

There's public hunting ground that has a tremendous amount of hunting pressure, to the most part good exercise.

There are quite a few hunting lodges and though I've only hunted a few they seem to have plenty of pheasants.

If you want a five star hotel, there probably are some in Minnesota or Colorado. A four star hotel, maybe, but I don't know of any.

You might start with contacting South Dakota game and fish department and ask.
Posted By: ribka Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/19/21
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

I hunt SD every year and I'm in the "3-legged Greyhound" group. The bird in the photo is a case in point. The dog was over hunting with my son and I walked down a shelter belt. The dog then came along behind me and slammed into a point 20 yards back. I had walked just a few feet from them and neither the rooster nor the hen he was with moved a feather. Without the dog I would have never known they were there.

We end up hunting some roadsides from time to time but I am never comfortable doing it -- too many things there that can injure the dog, like broken glass. A dog will walk through broken bottles and not think a thing about it, and take itself out of commission for a month.

I would listen to BK -- either find some quality land to hunt, and a friend with a good dog, or stay home, shoot preserve birds and save a lot of money. I've shot a lot of both wild and preserve pheasants. Within a couple of weeks of being freed a preserve bird is wilded up well enough, and flying strong enough, that you cannot tell them from pure wild birds (until you get a close look and know what to look for). 99% of guys will have a much better hunt at one of the lodges that augments with released birds and provides dogs and handlers than they will walking ditches without a dog, or watching an untrained dog put birds up a hundred yards out.


good points.
Posted By: battue Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/19/21
Some "Lodge" pricing....

https://www.thunderstik.com/hunting-packages/

https://www.pheasantcity.com/rates/

https://www.buffalobutte.com/rates/

https://northernplainsoutfitters.com/pheasant-hunts/

https://paulnelsonfarm.com/packages/

If you have a decent Dog and are willing to hunt.....Then hunting the roadside and two tracks from "Bird Dog Bunkhouse" is one of the best South Dakota Pheasant hunting deals..

However, one of the others above should be a fun time....if not, then it will be your fault....

Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/20/21
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

I hunt SD every year and I'm in the "3-legged Greyhound" group. The bird in the photo is a case in point. The dog was over hunting with my son and I walked down a shelter belt. The dog then came along behind me and slammed into a point 20 yards back. I had walked just a few feet from them and neither the rooster nor the hen he was with moved a feather. Without the dog I would have never known they were there.

We end up hunting some roadsides from time to time but I am never comfortable doing it -- too many things there that can injure the dog, like broken glass. A dog will walk through broken bottles and not think a thing about it, and take itself out of commission for a month.

I would listen to BK -- either find some quality land to hunt, and a friend with a good dog, or stay home, shoot preserve birds and save a lot of money. I've shot a lot of both wild and preserve pheasants. Within a couple of weeks of being freed a preserve bird is wilded up well enough, and flying strong enough, that you cannot tell them from pure wild birds (until you get a close look and know what to look for). 99% of guys will have a much better hunt at one of the lodges that augments with released birds and provides dogs and handlers than they will walking ditches without a dog, or watching an untrained dog put birds up a hundred yards out.


You do make some points, but as I said earlier sometimes a dog is a detriment as late season birds often run from them, where they may hold tight else wise. In your example the dog most certainly helped and actually made the difference, but I don't think it is always that way. I often back track bird tracks in the snow to see where they had been hiding and based on that (with and without dogs) I am 100% confident that X percent have learned to run from dogs specifically, especially in the late season. They run from people too no doubt but I am convinced it is not always better to have a dog along, as much as I LOVE watching them work and retrieve. Now finding a cripple is a completely different situation.

Broken glass in the borrow ditches (and of course the obvious hazard: vehicles, but not if you hunt the drifted in roadsides) and such is a valid point too. I must say though that I have ever seen a dog get hurt from roadside trash, glass included. I have seen dogs get cut up badly from barb wire, running into hidden stumps (one was killed in a state section that was 100% cover and nowhere near a crop or road), leaping over logs and landing on a porcupine (my springer when I was a kid---that was an expensive vet bill) and several getting caught in coyote traps, but I believe you run an equal risk of those hazards whether you hunt near a road or not.

The bottom line for me is, the birds are generally more concentrated in fence lines, canal banks and roadside cover (I am not talking about main highways or even bigger county roads, I am talking the small section line roads) after the crops are cut. Even if you do hunt the big fields with standing crops, that cover is often way the hell over my 6'1" head. There's lots of ways to be successful if you think outside the box and adapt to whatever the conditions are that are thrown at you.
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/20/21
Dogs can surely mess up a hunt, anytime from opening day through sundown on the closer. They have tremendous value in putting birds in the bag. If you're hunting without dogs, you're shooting more birds than a limit, if you're filling your bag.

I think fences are a bigger risk than broken glass, no one litters much around here, mostly because there aren't many of us to do it.

I guess here's something for you to consider: If you think the birds are concentrated in fence lines, canal banks (whatever those are) and roadside cover, you might want to see what they're concentrated like in stock dams, sloughs and weed patches out in the middle of private ground.
Posted By: battue Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/20/21
Had the chance to watch some guys walk thru one of the sloughs....If one would have been at the end, the Brits would have thought it a well done driven shoot....

However by chance, just prior, there was a close two track that I hunted... on the way out around a 100 started to get up on private ground to the left and crossed in front, on the way back enough had worked their way back to the two track to give up two....
Posted By: ribka Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/20/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
Dogs can surely mess up a hunt, anytime from opening day through sundown on the closer. They have tremendous value in putting birds in the bag. If you're hunting without dogs, you're shooting more birds than a limit, if you're filling your bag.

I think fences are a bigger risk than broken glass, no one litters much around here, mostly because there aren't many of us to do it.

I guess here's something for you to consider: If you think the birds are concentrated in fence lines, canal banks (whatever those are) and roadside cover, you might want to see what they're concentrated like in stock dams, sloughs and weed patches out in the middle of private ground.


Thats why I bring a good pair of rubber boots when I hunt the Dakotas. I look for unpressured sloughs, cattails, WPA's
Posted By: BKinSD Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/20/21
If you think being in the ditch is fun...try being the guy in the slough. Spend some money on yourself and be that guy. Why wouldn't you?
I think that barbed wire fences are a major hazard too. Dog tries to sneak under the fence to retrieve because it sees/senses a bird or making a retrieve and gets cut.
Originally Posted by T_Inman
[quote=RimfireArtist][URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pndEUklXj
The bottom line for me is, the birds are generally more concentrated in fence lines, canal banks and roadside cover (I am not talking about main highways or even bigger county roads, I am talking the small section line roads) after the crops are cut. Even if you do hunt the big fields with standing crops, that cover is often way the hell over my 6'1" head. There's lots of ways to be successful if you think outside the box and adapt to whatever the conditions are that are thrown at you.


I will grant you that if all the lands around have been planted and harvested, then the birds are going to be concentrated along the roads, because that is where the only cover is. For a good hunt away from roads you have to find land that is not cultivated, or at least hasn't been for some years. Sloughs aren't, because they are too wet too much of the year, but they can also be real nasty to walk through. Ideal are the farms that leave not only the sloughs uncultivated but also some shelter belts and former CRP land.

I will also grant you that in rural SD a thousand dogs are cut by barbed wire for every one that get cut on litter glass, but I can usually fix a wire cut myself, where there is no fixing a sliced pad, short of letting them heal for a month. Also, dogs will eventually learn to avoid the barbs, where they will never learn to avoid broken glass.

A good dog will eventually learn how to deal with a running bird, meaning learn how to trap it without over-running it and making it fly. The pup in the photo is learning how to do that. But while he still over-runs some 100 yards out and makes them fly, I do not think that, had I had no dog along, I would have ever gotten a shot either. My experience is that the birds run from whatever they see (or hear), and that is far more likely to be the taller, talking people than the dog.

And no matter what else is going on, or how good a shot you are, there are always roosters where the only damage was a broken wing, and without a dog you have just about zero chance of finding it. So the dog is going to be along with me any way. For me it is never a choice of "will it be better to take the dog or not?" The dog is going along. If he isn't trained yet, well, okay, then that day will be a training day and I my not get many, or any, shots, but that's okay -- I am preparing for future hunts.

It takes years to train a dog to be great in all aspects of pheasant hunting. Most people don't have the time or the patience. I don't know any other way to do it other than to let the birds train the dog. I can teach them to NOT do something (like bite porcupines) with an e-collar, but I can't train them to DO something, like figuring out which direction a running rooster is going and then circling out to the front to cut them off, then holding them on point until I can get there to flush the bird. Many will, however, learn that from the birds, eventually. (There is that word again. wink )

Concerning porcupines, I NEVER take a dog hunting without having a pair of needle-nose pliers on me. I have never had to take a quilled dog to the vet, and that is a good thing since a vet is often several hours away from where I am hunting. In that time some of those quills would have disappeared into the dog, doing who knows what damage.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
Originally Posted by BKinSD
Dogs can surely mess up a hunt, anytime from opening day through sundown on the closer. They have tremendous value in putting birds in the bag. If you're hunting without dogs, you're shooting more birds than a limit, if you're filling your bag.

I think fences are a bigger risk than broken glass, no one litters much around here, mostly because there aren't many of us to do it.

I guess here's something for you to consider: If you think the birds are concentrated in fence lines, canal banks (whatever those are) and roadside cover, you might want to see what they're concentrated like in stock dams, sloughs and weed patches out in the middle of private ground.


I am not sure I agree that when I am dogless (as I am right now) that I am shooting more birds than a limit (and yes, I often do fill my limit). I have lost cripples no doubt, but I have lost them with dogs too. There's very little doubt a good dog increases chances of finding a cripple but that doesn't mean I always loose one before limiting out. Far from it. That just makes me want to hunt the fence lines and field edges even more as if they hit the ground in a spot I can see and if they are crippled, I can often swat them if need be, though that is a fairly rare need.

Canal banks is an Idaho and Montana thing. There's usually some cover left along the canals that flow water to the fields.
I love hunting the thick cattail soughs, and do quite often when birds are in thick cover. I don't mind getting in the middle of them and pushing through, especially if they're not too tall. I rarely hunt private ground but have on occasion. I'd like to more as the birds for sure seem much less pressured.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
Originally Posted by T_Inman
[quote=RimfireArtist][URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pndEUklXj
The bottom line for me is, the birds are generally more concentrated in fence lines, canal banks and roadside cover (I am not talking about main highways or even bigger county roads, I am talking the small section line roads) after the crops are cut. Even if you do hunt the big fields with standing crops, that cover is often way the hell over my 6'1" head. There's lots of ways to be successful if you think outside the box and adapt to whatever the conditions are that are thrown at you.


I will grant you that if all the lands around have been planted and harvested, then the birds are going to be concentrated along the roads, because that is where the only cover is. For a good hunt away from roads you have to find land that is not cultivated, or at least hasn't been for some years. Sloughs aren't, because they are too wet too much of the year, but they can also be real nasty to walk through. Ideal are the farms that leave not only the sloughs uncultivated but also some shelter belts and former CRP land.

I will also grant you that in rural SD a thousand dogs are cut by barbed wire for every one that get cut on litter glass, but I can usually fix a wire cut myself, where there is no fixing a sliced pad, short of letting them heal for a month. Also, dogs will eventually learn to avoid the barbs, where they will never learn to avoid broken glass.

A good dog will eventually learn how to deal with a running bird, meaning learn how to trap it without over-running it and making it fly. The pup in the photo is learning how to do that. But while he still over-runs some 100 yards out and makes them fly, I do not think that, had I had no dog along, I would have ever gotten a shot either. My experience is that the birds run from whatever they see (or hear), and that is far more likely to be the taller, talking people than the dog.

And no matter what else is going on, or how good a shot you are, there are always roosters where the only damage was a broken wing, and without a dog you have just about zero chance of finding it. So the dog is going to be along with me any way. For me it is never a choice of "will it be better to take the dog or not?" The dog is going along. If he isn't trained yet, well, okay, then that day will be a training day and I my not get many, or any, shots, but that's okay -- I am preparing for future hunts.

It takes years to train a dog to be great in all aspects of pheasant hunting. Most people don't have the time or the patience. I don't know any other way to do it other than to let the birds train the dog. I can teach them to NOT do something (like bite porcupines) with an e-collar, but I can't train them to DO something, like figuring out which direction a running rooster is going and then circling out to the front to cut them off, then holding them on point until I can get there to flush the bird. Many will, however, learn that from the birds, eventually. (There is that word again. wink )

Concerning porcupines, I NEVER take a dog hunting without having a pair of needle-nose pliers on me. I have never had to take a quilled dog to the vet, and that is a good thing since a vet is often several hours away from where I am hunting. In that time some of those quills would have disappeared into the dog, doing who knows what damage.


Dogs may learn to avoid the barb wire that they see, but there are plenty of old fences everywhere including those state sections and the sloughs that they don't see until they run into it at full speed. I've seen that a fair amount with some pretty experienced dogs and have seen some pretty big flaps of skin get ripped from heads, armpits and "wrists" I guess you could call them. Sometimes the dog is not even on a scent. They're just hunting hard.

You'll get no argument from me concerning cripples, but as far as birds running out in front of the dogs, I am talking the long distant runners. The ones that won't let a dog within 1-200+ yards of them and that flush that far away from the dog if they run out of cover. They often do that with just people pushing them too, however there's pretty much no chance of a dog getting that kind of a bird cornered, no matter how good that dog is. I guess I could be wrong but I believe some educated birds can sense a dog actively tracking them, and act differently than they do when a person is just walking around. Maybe it has something to do with evolving with whatever wild dogs there are in China, or wherever it is that they originated from. I dunno but it is something I have come to believe after hunting pheasants for so many years in so many places and situations.

Porcupines....ya....normally we just cut the quills and then yank them out and go about our day, but the example I gave was when my springer landed on one. He had quills jammed up in his lungs, not just in his mouth/snout/ears. Luckily we were only an hour or so from town when that happened.
Originally Posted by T_Inman
[quote=RimfireArtist][quote=T_Inman]

As far as birds running out in front of the dogs, I am talking the long distant runners. The ones that won't let a dog within 1-200+ yards from him and they flush that far away if they run out of cover. They often do that with just people pushing them too, however there's pretty much no chance of a dog getting that kind of a bird cornered, no matter how good that dog is. I guess I could be wrong but I believe some educated birds can sense a dog actively tracking them, and act differently than they do when a person is just walking by. Maybe it has something to do with whatever wild dogs there are in China or wherever they originated from. I dunno but it is something I have come to believe after hunting them for so many years in so many places and situations.


You know, you're saying some pretty weird stuff. I have never seen a bird that would not let my dog within 100 yards of him. But even if such alert and skittish birds did exist, how are you going to get within shooting range? If the dog can't get up on them, you sure aren't.

Quote
Porcupines....ya....normally we just cut the quills and then yank them out and go about our day, but the example I gave was when my springer landed on one. He had quills jammed up in his lungs, not just in his mouth/snout/ears. Luckily we were only an hour or so from town when that happened.


"Jammed up in his LUNGS?" So the quills penetrated the skin and rib-cage and were into the LUNGS. I'm sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long while. The only reason I can think of for you to say something like that is that the vet TOLD you the dog had quills into his lungs. But if so, that happened during the ride to the vet. Right after the encounter there would have been no quills far into muscle, but the barbs on the quills make them work in fast. This is why I tell people you better be ready to extract all the quills yourself, on the spot, because waiting until you can get to a vet may have a very bad result.

I did have a shorthair accidentally come down on a porcupine once while bounding through high grass. He had quills in his side, leg and foot, but those quills were all much, much easier to remove than ones in the mouth of a dog that has bitten a porcupine.

I've heard of cutting quills and even tried it once years ago when I was green at it. I don't do it now because it is a waste of time, and time is a very valuable commodity when you've got a dog with quills in it.
Posted By: battue Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
A hard and hot Springer or English Cocker flusher will often put a Pheasant up 100 yards out....If they have the cover, and are runners, they will run until their choice is to fly or be chomped on....And you are not going to keep up with the chase. Have only had one that figured out the game and got ahead of them on occasion. A wild Pheasants hearing never fails to impress me...Have had more than one get up at 100 yards out,...and with the Dog at heal... too many times to think it was only happenstance. Or one or a couple get up, which sets off a chain reaction, and others get out....and some at 100 plus. Hunting dogless, or with a Pointer or flusher it makes no difference.

All of this makes me believe that pure wild Pheasants are a different Bird than the salted fields at "Thunder Chicken" lodge...Still, I wouldn't mind hunting there on occasion..Just for the opportunity to fire up your Dog,,,and the shooting.... wink

The vets will tell you cutting Porcupine quills to make removal easier is not the thing to do....Have had to remove them from mine and friends Dogs a few times. It is often not a one man chore...He had a Dog die from a quill....He missed one and it found its way into the Dogs stomach...

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/porcupine-quills-in-dogs-and-their-dangers

Addition: The hearing of a great Dog is also something that never fails to impress me...The great ones will hear a Bird hit the ground when shot...even tho they didn't see the fall...and go right to it. Some will find a hit Bird that sails on a long way before coming down...A good Dog most definitely puts more Birds into the bag with less shots fired....

Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
Originally Posted by T_Inman


As far as birds running out in front of the dogs, I am talking the long distant runners. The ones that won't let a dog within 1-200+ yards from him and they flush that far away if they run out of cover. They often do that with just people pushing them too, however there's pretty much no chance of a dog getting that kind of a bird cornered, no matter how good that dog is. I guess I could be wrong but I believe some educated birds can sense a dog actively tracking them, and act differently than they do when a person is just walking by. Maybe it has something to do with whatever wild dogs there are in China or wherever they originated from. I dunno but it is something I have come to believe after hunting them for so many years in so many places and situations.


You know, you're saying some pretty weird stuff. I have never seen a bird that would not let my dog within 100 yards of him. But even if such alert and skittish birds did exist, how are you going to get within shooting range? If the dog can't get up on them, you sure aren't.



I may be saying some weird stuff, but I suspect that is because I often hunt differently than most people, my way and the way that I prefer to do so. I have learned to not do what most people do, and not go where most people go. I often pheasant hunt the small, overlooked areas and hunt them by myself, which allows for different techniques than what tradition dictates. I have zero desire to push huge fields with multiple dogs and blockers at the end, even though that can be effective. I have done that, but just don't enjoy doing it that way.

I must confirm though: you've never seen a pheasant so pressured that it flushes 100+ yards out from you or your dog? I've on (somewhat rare) occasion seen birds flush 300 yards away before I even get out of the pickup. As far as getting within shooting range of those birds, that was exactly my point....it generally isn't going to happen. Quite often they run from you and then hold tight when the cover ends, but often enough they don't and flush when they hit the end of that cover, whether you're nearby or not. Maybe a dog could run a huge loop and get in front of the skittish bird and then push then it back towards you, but a dog that far out would probably be getting yelled at or zapped to work closer anyhow, for a pheasant dog at least. Some dogs are smart enough I have no doubt, but it'd also take a good handler to realize when that is happening and act appropriately.





Originally Posted by RimfireArtist

"Jammed up in his LUNGS?" So the quills penetrated the skin and rib-cage and were into the LUNGS. I'm sorry but that is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a long while. The only reason I can think of for you to say something like that is that the vet TOLD you the dog had quills into his lungs. But if so, that happened during the ride to the vet. Right after the encounter there would have been no quills far into muscle, but the barbs on the quills make them work in fast. This is why I tell people you better be ready to extract all the quills yourself, on the spot, because waiting until you can get to a vet may have a very bad result.

I did have a shorthair accidentally come down on a porcupine once while bounding through high grass. He had quills in his side, leg and foot, but those quills were all much, much easier to remove than ones in the mouth of a dog that has bitten a porcupine.

I've heard of cutting quills and even tried it once years ago when I was green at it. I don't do it now because it is a waste of time, and time is a very valuable commodity when you've got a dog with quills in it.


I was 12-13 and yes, just relaying what the vet had said. I don't remember a lot of the details. Maybe he landed more on his side and quills had a 50/50 chance of hitting a rib or not and missed the sternum. I dunno. We also didn't immediately realize what had happened because he kept working the thick cover for a little while, as it was a big cattail slough and keeping an eye on him just wasn't feasible. It didn't take long to realize something was wrong with him though. I am sure the quills did work their way deeper during that time as well as the ride to the vet, but have not really thought about that until now. The word "jammed" may not have been the best verb to use and I'll withdraw it, but then again when jumping and landing on something, who knows? He had no quills in his mouth or feet, IIRC. Only his chest/side.

I do find the quills are easier to pull if cut first, but maybe it is just me mentally thinking they're easier to yank out when done so. Maybe it also has something to do with back quills and tail quills being thicker and longer than head/belly/leg quills? Hell if I know. I do know porcupines piss me off and I kill every one that I see.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
Originally Posted by battue
A hard and hot Springer or English Cocker flusher will often put a Pheasant up 100 yards out....If they have the cover, and are runners, they will run until their choice is to fly or be chomped on....And you are not going to keep up with the chase. Have only had one that figured out the game and got ahead of them on occasion. A wild Pheasants hearing never fails to impress me...Have had more than one get up at 100 yards out,...and with the Dog at heal... too many times to think it was only happenstance. Or one or a couple get up, which sets off a chain reaction, and others get out....and some at 100 plus. Hunting dogless, or with a Pointer or flusher it makes no difference.

All of this makes me believe that pure wild Pheasants are a different Bird than the salted fields at "Thunder Chicken" lodge...Still, I wouldn't mind hunting there on occasion..Just for the opportunity to fire up your Dog,,,and the shooting.... wink

The vets will tell you cutting Porcupine quills to make removal easier is not the thing to do....Have had to remove them from mine and friends Dogs a few times. It is often not a one man chore...He had a Dog die from a quill....He missed one and it found its way into the Dogs stomach...

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/porcupine-quills-in-dogs-and-their-dangers

Addition: The hearing of a great Dog is also something that never fails to impress me...The great ones will hear a Bird hit the ground when shot...even tho they didn't see the fall...and go right to it. Some will find a hit Bird that sails on a long way before coming down...A good Dog most definitely puts more Birds into the bag with less shots fired....



I'll take that advice on the quills, the next time I am in that situation. Old habits die hard, I guess. The "splintering" quote in that article does make some sense, and I guess I had never really thought about that possibility.

I have thought about a dog hearing a bird hitting the ground, then homing in on it based solely on that and have seen some evidence of that happening. A dog's senses are that good and based on how far out I have seen coyotes respond to a fairly low volume/pitch distress call and be able to home in on the exact source of the sound, some bird dog's ears could for sure pick that out and then put 2 and 2 together, especially an experienced dog.
Posted By: T_Inman Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/21/21
Originally Posted by battue


He had a Dog die from a quill....He missed one and it found its way into the Dogs stomach...




You know speaking of that, I know of one really good lab that died from an infection that (supposedly) stemmed from a 6-10" cheatgrass stalk that somehow found it's way completely up into the dog's nasal cavity.

There's lots of hazards for dogs out there and a guy has to accept the possibility of them getting hurt/killed if he is going to hunt over a dog. It pains me because I am a total dog lover and want to get another once my living situation allows for it.
It is certainly better to have someone to help you restrain the dog while doing quill removal, but I have done it alone several times. Any dog of mine learns early to let me do "procedures" on them -- trimming nails, cleaning teeth, etc. They don't like cooperating with quill removal but all of my dogs have let me do it.

Probably the biggest reason it is a good idea to let a vet do it is that it is easy to miss a quill after 30 minutes of wrestling with the dog, and that can be the one that kills it.

But for me often "taking them to a vet" is simply not an option, nor is it necessary. For me quills screw up an hour of two, they don't cause me to punch out of the entire hunt. You dog or situation may differ, however.
Posted By: ribka Re: Planning First Trip to SD - 02/28/21
A good dog, if put on a lot of wild birds at a young age, will figure them out including running roosters. It too about 20 contacts with far running roosters for my dog to figure out the best way was to do a long semi circle in front of the them about 100 to 150 yards to cut them off then work back to me. Not always successful but pretty impressive. I tend to park at least a 1/4 mile from hunting areas, I don't slam my doors, I dont use a whistle, bells or a beeper, and try and use hand signals and vibrate on her collar., often dont wear blaze orange if not required ( I think educated birds learn to avoid orange) , and I will heal my dog til I get to the field. I'll often enter a hunting area from the backside if possible where hunters usually end their hunt. It might take a lot of extra walking but its worth it.


Originally Posted by RimfireArtist
Originally Posted by T_Inman
[quote=RimfireArtist][URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pndEUklXj
The bottom line for me is, the birds are generally more concentrated in fence lines, canal banks and roadside cover (I am not talking about main highways or even bigger county roads, I am talking the small section line roads) after the crops are cut. Even if you do hunt the big fields with standing crops, that cover is often way the hell over my 6'1" head. There's lots of ways to be successful if you think outside the box and adapt to whatever the conditions are that are thrown at you.


I will grant you that if all the lands around have been planted and harvested, then the birds are going to be concentrated along the roads, because that is where the only cover is. For a good hunt away from roads you have to find land that is not cultivated, or at least hasn't been for some years. Sloughs aren't, because they are too wet too much of the year, but they can also be real nasty to walk through. Ideal are the farms that leave not only the sloughs uncultivated but also some shelter belts and former CRP land.

I will also grant you that in rural SD a thousand dogs are cut by barbed wire for every one that get cut on litter glass, but I can usually fix a wire cut myself, where there is no fixing a sliced pad, short of letting them heal for a month. Also, dogs will eventually learn to avoid the barbs, where they will never learn to avoid broken glass.

A good dog will eventually learn how to deal with a running bird, meaning learn how to trap it without over-running it and making it fly. The pup in the photo is learning how to do that. But while he still over-runs some 100 yards out and makes them fly, I do not think that, had I had no dog along, I would have ever gotten a shot either. My experience is that the birds run from whatever they see (or hear), and that is far more likely to be the taller, talking people than the dog.

And no matter what else is going on, or how good a shot you are, there are always roosters where the only damage was a broken wing, and without a dog you have just about zero chance of finding it. So the dog is going to be along with me any way. For me it is never a choice of "will it be better to take the dog or not?" The dog is going along. If he isn't trained yet, well, okay, then that day will be a training day and I my not get many, or any, shots, but that's okay -- I am preparing for future hunts.

It takes years to train a dog to be great in all aspects of pheasant hunting. Most people don't have the time or the patience. I don't know any other way to do it other than to let the birds train the dog. I can teach them to NOT do something (like bite porcupines) with an e-collar, but I can't train them to DO something, like figuring out which direction a running rooster is going and then circling out to the front to cut them off, then holding them on point until I can get there to flush the bird. Many will, however, learn that from the birds, eventually. (There is that word again. wink )

Concerning porcupines, I NEVER take a dog hunting without having a pair of needle-nose pliers on me. I have never had to take a quilled dog to the vet, and that is a good thing since a vet is often several hours away from where I am hunting. In that time some of those quills would have disappeared into the dog, doing who knows what damage.
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