For all your grouse hunters needed some choke advice. I’ve always used IC or MOD. Was looking at a shotgun today that is IM. Just wanted to make sure that it isn’t too tight of a choke and a waste of money.

Which Grouse?

I’ve killed a bunch of the Ruffed variety with all the ones you mentioned. So from here, NBD.

You can get the right barrel opened up for about $75 so if it is a good enough deal and the right gun go for it. It would be fine for grouse

I reload Polywad spreaders so IM would be ok for me, but I'd prefer it more open as a rule.

I do a lot of Woodcock hunting over dogs in really thick stuff so C/IC is better for me, so the spreader loads in my IC/M guns work out well in the 10-to-15-yard range which is most common.

My 20ga grouse gun (ruffed) is IC/M. I wish it was SK/IC sometimes.

As mentioned, which species of grouse? And, to a lesser extent tIke of year and gauge of gun?

For forest grouse such as ruffed, spruce, et al, I prefer anyplace from cylinder to IC if using a 12, 16, or 20 ga until about 50% leaf fall then I'll go as tight as Mod if using 1 oz or lighter of a shot charge. For 28 ga it would be IC for the early part with Mod later.

Prairie grouse such as sharptail, prairie chicken, sage, or ptarmigan can range from IC to Full depending on situation. One can generally be well set with IC or even Mod early in the season but later when the birds bunch up and become spooky or they are hanging out in low and sparse cover a rifle may not even reach them before they flush. I'll typically muddle through the late season with at least Mod but haven't been afraid to use Full if it seems to be needed. These suggestions are regardless of gauge though I tend to choke a little tighter if using less than an ounce of shot than over. It's what has worked well for me over the years but it is not cast in stone either.

For forest grouse I opt for IC/Mod in my doubles and IC in single barrel guns.

Sage hen and sharptail call for IM/Full or Either one for single barrel guns.

With the ammo selections before FJB screwed things up ammo choices optimized options. Non-toxic mandates have screwed up scatter-gunning.

Ruffed grouse.

May I suggest: https://www.riflesandrecipes.com/product/shotguns-for-wingshooting/

I hunt over pointers and SKI and SKII is my favorite combo for grouse and woodcock.

I hunt with guns that are old and unique. I have to hit the bird to kill it, so shooting is more important than chokes because I can’t do anything about the way the gun is choked…

Little or no choke is needed under 30 yards. Especially so if shooting an ounce or more of small shot. Tight chokes just make it harder to hit at close range and mangle the bird if you do. IC is as tight as I’d personally want. I’ve had lots of chokes opened. Not all grouse are shot up close so this may not apply to all.

[quote=shrapnel]

That’s a beautiful old gun. What is it?

It is a Burgess wrist-slide action shotgun made by Andrew Burgess around 1890…

cylinder choke is you friend., need more range just go to premium ammo For ruffed grouse and woodcock I usually use 8 or 9 , if more open terrain 7 1/2 .

I also use a 30" single shot full choke Cooey 12ga for head shooting road birds while out on the ATV.

We get a lot of birds that way when the dog is at home.

They will hang you for that Super Cub!!! Ha, ha. They taste just as good.

I know that. It's legal and they can pound sand.

I have a pointer and 20ga SxS for those other days afield.



Or with the 12ga Cooey ....

They all taste the same. Wonderful.

Thanks for the suggestion/recommendation!

One thing I do mention in the book is actually patterning your shotgun with the ammo you hope to use to kill any North American grouse--no matter what the gun or supposed choke. Amazing how many bird hunters still don't....

For what it looks like, POI, or both?

Both--but would rate POI as more important, as did Bob Brister.

Agree definitely on POI. Have seen more than a few top shooters shoot any good shell, not worrying about what it looked like on paper, and go on as if nothing changed.

Some may prefer one over the other, and others shoot whoever pays them or supplies the shells.

And, that in SxS’s and O/U’s, the patterns overlie each other at 25-30 yds. Same POI. I’ve not ever had it not be so, but I imagine there are guns where it happens.

I'd be more concerned with how the gun fits you than the choke, if it is a gun you wish to pursue. I didn't learn about gun fit until I was already on my third of fourth shotgun. Some shoot better than others for me but most of mine are choked modified. It seems most old guns are choked mod or full, I've read they needed tighter chokes back in the day because of the paper shells. IM would make for a nice late season gun when birds are runnin and flushing further out.

George,

I have seen patterns from doubles diverge WIDELY in doubles, both O/U and SxS--but due to my profession have probably patterned a lot more shotguns that most. One O/U 28-gauge, from a highly regarded company, placed the lower barrel's pattern right where the gun pointed for me--and I am pretty average in "dimensions" myself. The upper barrel placed the pattern so much higher that the bottom of the patter barely touched where the shotgun pointed, and if I recall that was at 30 yards.

I was working on Shotguns for Wingshooting at the time, and consequently shooting a LOT of shotguns with different ammo at a local Sporting Clays range. If I recall correctly, that was the FIRST shotgun I took to the range without patterning it beforehand, and halfway through a 25-bird round it had me talking to myself. I patterned it afterward and found out why. (The really odd thing is that when I reported it to the shotgun's maker, they didn't seem to care. I suspect the reason was "crooked" choke-tube threads in the top barrel, but by that point I didn't care enough to measure things.)

That was 20+ years ago, and ever since I've at least shot every new-to-me shotgun at a dirt bank to see where the pattern centered before taking it hunting....

Hope you are doing well!

John

Hi John, and thank you. As far as I know, I am well overall other than three weeks from now, I’m in line for a new right knee. I hope you are doing well as well.

I can see where that situation would have you talking to yourself. It’s very surprising to me that a good company would allow a gun like that out of the door…to a gun writer yet. And even more so, that they didn’t seem to care too much when notified.

Bought a new Dickinson a couple of years ago and they included a target showing both barrels nicely in a thirty inch circle at 25 yds. Recently, I picked up a Batista Rizzini 20 ga. and a Browning Citori Superlight Feather 16. First thing I did was take and shoot them both in the same way at 25 yds. Both guns’ barrels patterned on top of each other. It was kind of a relief actually.

I’ve had some inexpensive SxS’s and some O/U’s back in the day, but they all did the same. I guess I’ve been fortunate.

Best!

My favorite is a Franchi Falconet 12ga. w/24” barrels choked C/IC

I didn’t, not properly anyway, until I started futzing with sub-bore turkey guns and TSS. A major hurdle was that neither of the ranges I frequent allows shotshells on the rifle ranges, nor targets placed anywhere but on the berms. Our clays range has a patterning range, but it’s only open with an RSO on site. Solved that by becoming an RSO myself.

Patterning revealed that the CZ O/U 20 turkey gun I so eagerly acquired was shooting 8” apart at 40 yards. Since they wouldn’t/couldn’t do anything to fix it, and the only fix was expensive and troublesome custom tubes, it went away.

Cyl and AA 7.5's or 8's from a 28 or 20ga for ruffs for me.

The vast majority of my vintage shotguns are cylinder bore, but I normally run cyl/IC in my guns with screw in chokes , and shoot everything that flies with them from chukars to geese
Cat

The very reason they have a pattern board and a grease roller at most Sporting Clays ranges worth a flip. If you do not have a gun that is fit to you or know where in the world a gun shoots you are just pizzin in the wind.

Back to the original question, open chokes for grouse, especially in the thick eastern woods. A modified is mostly too tight. However, you can always have a fixed choke opened up.

My primary grouse gun, 20 gauge Franchi Highlander sxs. Choked IC/full #6 shot

I use my Winchester 101, 26" barrels, choked Skeet 1 and Skeet 2. 1-1/8 ounce 7.5's .

I like the traditional live pigeon gun chokes, I/C & I/M.

Stoked with 7-2 inch shells and choked grouse 1…

What is that shotgun ?

I hunt prairie grouse sharptails and prairie chickens I use a modified choke in a single barrel gun. In a 2 barrel ic and modified early to mid season with 6 shot. After November I pull the ic put the mod in the bottom barrel and full on top by then the birds are full feathered and have a good fat layer so I use 5's and 4's for full penetration and structural damage farther out. Depending on conditions and your dog's ability you know where you shouldn't shoot. Works for me I lose very few birds your ability and your dogs are the key...mb

Burgess wrist slide action 12 gauge shotgun with Damascus barrel and solid rib…

Shrapnel, you find any deals at Cody?

A Colt/Burgess baby saddle ring carbine in 44-40 for only $25,000.00

Well I'm glad something held your interest. I picked up my new lab pup Monday before last and she and I are still bonding so I stayed home and it was nice..mb

I just looked at this Rolling Block last night, man, how I would like to own it in 40-50 Sharps bottleneck…

Kirk what is the roller chambered for? Saw the pic of you and your Montana Sharps display at Greeley. It looked good, it is in the latest Sharps Collector Report that came today...mb

I actually won first place at the Greeley show with that display.

The Rolling block is 45-50 Sharps Bottleneck. I talked to Roy Marcot today about it. He is going to look the pictures over and give me his impression tomorrow.

I picked up an older Browning BPS in 20ga this weekend with two 26" bbls. 1st is the original factory IC and the other extra bbl threaded for tubes.

I like those BPSs with the bottom eject and tang safety. Perfect little bird gun.

Years back, I was bitching to an old fart about missing birds because of the full choke in the old pump. He pointed out that the center of the pattern is in the same spot regardless the choke.......Changed my way of thinkin LOL

Most all birds these days get shot with a 22lr or a 20ga with a modified choke.

Full 20 guage for me most shots are birds on ground or in trees. Dog loves to retrieve them. Its thick and steep up here.

We are heading out today with the digs, my son will likely take his 28 gauge FAIR with CYL/IC chokes and I will be using a vintage Hughes 14 gauge muzzle loader - (CYL/CYL of course) that I recently built a ram rod for and tightened up the hammers.
It comes up nicely and kills manually thrown clays with no issues at all, so it shoud work just fine over the Small Mubsterlander. :>)
Cat

Been thinking about this and I just suspect that open chokes are the way to go. had my 28ga AyA opened from Mod/Full to Imp cyl/Skeet three. Skeet three was smiths idea, He said it was a bit more open than Mod. Thinking back on the grouse I have got into I suspect skeet/Imp cyl would be the way to go on a forest grouse gun. had an 870 Special Field bored Imp Cyl and it was pure death on grouse! Wasn't worth a darn in open country! have added a 28ga CZ Bobwhite and it has tubes, a first for me! Think, not sure right now, I have a skeet/Imp cyl in it. also have a 410 I use shooting pigeons for my dogs in training and it is full/full. Seems to work alright but one of these days I'd like to try it on grouse. Unfortunately I live in central Ore and not a lot of game birds anywhere near me now! need to make a trip back up to western Montana one of these days for forest grouse.

Skeet 3? Never heard of that. Skeet 1 is .005" constriction, IC is .010" constriction. Skeet 2 is .015" of constriction and is generally considered a Light Modified. Modified is .020".