Been experimenting with loads in my 28 ga. for pheasant and chukar, most pen raised and released, but a few wild pheasant as well.

After trying 3/4 oz. 7.5 shot, 1 oz. 7.5's, and 7/8 oz. 7.5's, all out of an IC choke, I have settled on Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads, 7/8 oz., #6 nickel-plated shot, MV 1300 fps. This stuff really works, results are DOA vs. cripples or down but still kicking. Seems to be a good balance of pattern density and penetration.
Ranges are in the 15-35 yd. max., any further than that the 28 just doesn't carry the pellet count to do the job well, IMO.
Hunting upland birds with my 11 MO yellow lab and a Benelli Legacy 28 ga., is just too much fun!

What do you all use? Any preferences?

The Fiocchi load is a good one for bigger birds. I've also used the Winchester 1-ounce load with copper-plated 6's a lot, as well as a handload using 7/8 ounce of high-antimony #7 (not 7-1/2) which kills pheasants just about as well.

Have killed a number of wild pheasants and sage grouse at over 35 yards with the 28, my longest a big male sage grouse at 47 using the Winchester load. One of the realities of shotgunning is the bigger the bird, the more shot hits it, everything else being equal. But if anybody prefer limiting their shots to 35 I won't argue.

I think if I was going to use more than the 3/4 oz load I'd go up in ga. I found that running #6 shot through my 28ga reloading press simply does not work well. You might get 3/4 oz but normally less. So I only run 71/2 or smaller through it. #6 shot has always been better for me on pheasant's in 12 and 16 ga. Don't have a 12 anymore but ran 1 1/8 oz of 6's when I did. Like 1 oz loads of 6's in my 16ga.

I'm pretty old school and at one time the belief was that the closer to sq the shot load was, the better the shot pattern. don't know if it's true of not. Never patterned the first load.

WW AA 7.5's works good on pen raised Pheasants in my 1100 28ga

For wild Pheasants, I shoot # 6's in the Remington 7/8 load. And kill birds just as far as my buddies hunting with 12 ga guns.

DonFischer,

I've never had any problem loading more than 3/4 ounce of shot in my MEC. I also like to shoot my 28 gauges more than my heavier shotguns.

I used to use the 28 only in the early season. Here in Montana most of our upland seasons except pheasants start on September 1st, so began with doves, Hungarian partridge, ruffed grouse, sharptails, etc. The 28 did fine, as it always has that time of year, because most birds are young and they hold well in the warm weather.

Later on, however, the birds are a little older and heavier, have more feathers and tend to get up further out, so in most years I switch to larger gauges. Decided that year not to unless the 28 proves inadequate. Pheasant starts the second week of October, and I hunted wild birds (not pen-raised) throughout October and into November without any problems, using both a 7/8 ounce of #7 handload and Winchester 1-ounce loads. Also killed some sage grouse with no problems, the long shot the 47-yarder on a 5-6 male.

The old saying about square loads originated black powder days with soft shot, and doesn't apply these days with plastic shot cups and harder shot. I've shot beautiful patterns at 40 yards with all of my 28's using more than 3/4 ounce of shot, and would much rather carry them for most upland hunting, so do.

I don't know what made me think to weight a couple shot loads but when I did, couldn't get repeatably accurate shot load with #6's. Using a Mec 600 MKII. Love the gun, been sitting unused for years before I finally tried it out. Priced a box of shells when I first was going to try is and that really made a 28 ga press look good. My 16 is all but retired now, don't hunt pheasant's any more. D*mn I like my 28 and my 410!

The Fiocchi's are the very load I settled on when had a chance for a case at a discounted price. I've used the 28 (an AyA SxS) on IA pheasants a lot the last five years or so, mostly behind a pointer and honestly haven't noticed a difference between it and my Beretta 20.

Kind of come to the conclusion the guys that kill Pheasants well with the light gauge shotguns are a lot better shot than me! IMHO

yeah, KK--I've come to the same conclusion. One guy I hunt with kills EVERYTHING DRT with a .410 double.

I can't do that with anything smaller than a 20, and even then I get a few birds back from the dog still alive....

Bighorn, most of the time my handloads for hunting with my 28s use 3/4 oz. of magnum 7 shot. Works great for huns, sharpies and mountain grouse. For pheasants I switch over to a handload of 7/8 oz. nickle platted 6's. This gun is a 1953 vintage Remington 11-48 in 28 gauge. It says Full on the barrel but patterns more like modified. These wild roosters bagged this morning attest to the effectiveness of the loading and the little 28.

My favourite load for the 28's my son and i shoot is 30 grains of H110 in BPI hull, with an HV28 wad, and 7/8oz of either 7 1/2
or 5 ( depending on the wind for the day), nickle plated shot.
Drops them dead WAY out there if need be, out of an IC/MOD choked gun.:>)

Cat

Great photo!

Great picture, mw406!

Hey Mule deer, have you weighted the 3^ shot loads? I went to six for pheasants in a 12ga years ago. To many cripples with 7 1/2 shot. I don't have a 12 ga anymore, 2 16's aq 28 and a 410. I bought some 410 shell,s a while back and they are 1/2 os #6. I'm gonna try that once I get a 410 press going. But that 6 shot in my 28 ga loader just doesn't throw right or even consistent. I'm guessing that somewhere the shot is piling up and not getting it all in. Come to think of it, I put an adjustable chg bar on it. seem's the chamber was triangle shaped. Maybe that's what's doing it?

Someone said something about #7 shot. I've heard of the stuff before but never see any. Is it larger than #6 or smaller?

Yeah, I weigh shot charges in my reloads when working up, to make sure they're what they're supposed to be.

#7 shot is between 7-1/2's and 6's in size. 7-1/2's are supposed to average around 350 an ounce, and 6's 225, the largest gap in shot size. 7's are supposed to average around 300 an ounce, a size that in England is called #6 and is apparently the most popular size over there for shooting driven birds.

I buy my extra-hard #7 shot from Ballistic Products, and 7/8 ounce (about as many pellets as are in 1-1/4 ounces of #6 shot) penetrates and kills pheasants very well out to 40 yards or a little more.

I've read where a number of guy's really like the 7 shot, I'd never seen it until last thursday. Had to go to bend and went into Sportsmens. They don't have aa lot of shot but there was one bag of 7's there, first one I've ever seen. I've got quite a bit #6 and #7 1/2 here right now. Can't believe how the price has gone up. If I remember it was just under $50!

Yeah, that's the way it's been for a while now. Luckily I bought a pile of smaller shot for practice back when the price was $25 or less, and only load the higher-priced stuff for hunting.

Good looking, bright eyed dog there mw406,

He's really focused on something out there in that picture .

I have a couple of those old Rem. 11-48s.
One is a 20 gauge that my Dad bought new back in the day. Still use it sometimes.....

-Ted

Mule Deer, you mentioned using your 28 ga. on sage grouse to 47 yards.. The longest shot I made with my 28 was just 40 yards.. I was wondering what choke you use in the .28?? I stuck with full.. Never had the IC or Mod. in the little 870..

I also wondered if most guys using the smaller ga. on ringnecks used pointing dogs.. My goldens listen pretty well, but when they hit a track, I must keep up.. Sometimes it results in a much longer shot that if I were using a good pointer...

All of this got me thinking about the loads I see when I visit pheasant country.. All most all the loads lean toward 3" shells in both 12 and 20.. The little 28 does a beautiful job, but my dogs style of hunting does not always permit the use of a smaller ga. Guys who live in bird country maybe don't realize when we visit heaven, we want to make the most of all our chances...

Yeah, a lot depends on the dog. I prefer flushing dogs, but mine are trained to work pretty close--though they don't always do it, especially on a hot track!

But I suspect an even bigger problem with most bird hunters is they don't really know what a pheasant at 40 yards looks like, because they don't get as much practice. I do get to hunt a lot, and pace off every pheasant shot I make, so am pretty good at not shooting at roosters too far away. I did a lot of patterning for a 28-gauge article a few years ago, and found the average "modified" choke produced dense enough patterns for 40-yard pheasants (or other pheasant-sized birds) with #6 or #7 shot.

As for sage grouse, most people don't realize that larger birds also get hit with more shot, given an equally thick pattern. Which is the fallacy in assuming the 28 is only good for small birds: The pattern's often too thin for sufficient pellets in smaller birds--unless you use small enough shot to compensate.

PaleRider, Ya my little setter she's all "binness" when it comes to bird hunting but a joy to be around at home. I mostly use a couple side-by 28 gauges but I get a kick out of that little 11-48 auto. It's just so cool.

Dave Duffy once wrote about hunting with flushing dogs, "you can work on control, but sometimes you just have to stir your stumps to keep up".

I've had a couple pretty good springers over the years. When hunting pheasants with them I mostly used 12 gauges but, I've used 28s a fair amount. I tend to use 28 gauges a bit more when hunting over pointing dogs, definitely have more close-in shots. In either case, flusher or pointer, when using 28s on pheasants I've learned to hunt within their capabilities. Their limits for me have more to do with choke really than gauge since my 28s tend to be on the open side. I figure it's kind of the same as when I hunt big game with lever guns and metallic sights, 150 to 200 yards get's to be a long-ass shot in a hurry where as it's a slam dunk with a scoped rifle. If your hunting with a 28 gauge it's likely because you want to not because it's your only gun. Except the occasional limitation, be selective in your shooting and enjoy the day afield carrying your 28.

To use a flushing or pointing dog, that is the question. Answer, why not have both, seems reasonable to me. My son with our springer and setter using what in reality could arguably be the best all-around upland bird gun, an over/under 20 gauge. But as with dogs, why have just one kind of shotgun?

I bought a 28 ga Franchi Renaissance because I was looking for a light 20, and Sportsmans Warehouse had the darn thing on sale for $900.

Some of the best money I have ever spent. At any reasonable range, I can whack pheasants as well as I can with a 12. By reasonable range, I mean under 60 yds with IC choke and no 6 shot.

Not much gets past me. If you can do your part, the gun will not let you down. The Fiocchi ammo you are using is my absolute favorite. Hammers the birds.....

You'll shoot to the level of your gun, and enjoy every minute.

First round of drinks is on me when you agree....

Pugs and me just returned from a FUN and successful mixed bag (pheasant,chukar & quail) hunt in Georgia. We both used a 28ga 7 1/2" Winchester and Fiocchi with great results. Hell I even knocked one down at 40 yards.

Hitting targets or birds is similiar to delivering mail. It is not the size of the package but getting it to the right address. 45 years of shooting clays and birds has given me some wisdom and insight. I have not used a 12 gauge for anything other than trap and skeet. All my hunting is down with either a 20 gauge (7/8 oz loads) side by side or my 16 gauge pump ( 1 oz loads). Most if not all of my hunting friends use 12 gauge guns and cannot believe the shots that I make with my little 20 or 16. Thats when I tell them about its not the size of the package but getting it to the right address. Keep your head down and don't stop your swing to check the beads on your gun.

I have had the best luck on SD pheasants with the 28 ga Win. 1 oz load of 5's. It kills them as well as anything else.

300 & js, I have a serious question for both of you and others who may wish to chime in.. When you talk of using the 28 or for that matter the 20 on pheasants, what kind of dogs are you using?? I have killed quite a bit of game with my 28 and more with my 20, BUT my goldens do not work under my feet when we are hunting ringnecks.. I get lots of shots between 30 to 45 yards and maybe a bit further, depending on the cover and the day.. I have killed sage grouse dead at 40 yards with my 28, but they are not tough to knock down, and if only a wing is broken, the dogs can easily catch them.. I guess what I am getting to, is I just don't have the faith in the smaller bores for pheasants due to the distances which I shoot... I am not talking extreme stuff, but at max 50 yards.. But a lot of my shots are out beyond 30 yards due the not having pointing dogs.. Do you feel comfortable at those distances with your 28..?? I am not trying to jerk your chain, just get a feel for what I can expect on a daily basis from these smaller ga.. shotguns.. Good pheasant hunting is always a long drive and limited time.. So I am wanting to make the most of all the fair chances I get..

Just re read much of this post, kind of answers the questions I posed, but I would still like your thoughts..

First off Wyo I am not trying to be mean and intend my criticism to be constructive.

You say you are not talking about extreme shots but 50 yards is an incredibly long shot for both shoot and load/choke. Buy or borrow a book by Bob Brister called Shotgunning the Art and the Science. In it Mr. Brister describes how traditional load patterns degrade rapidly past 40 yards, With most load/choke combos rendered useless between 40-50 yards.

40 yards let alone 50 yards is a long distance visually. My guess is that you are making the common mistake of overestimating range. Here is what I would do I would pattern the 12ga load and choke you use on pheasants at 40,45,and 50 yards just so you can see the degradation of the pattern.
Next I would go to a local trap field and using the same set up you would use for pheasant hunting (except using trap legal shells) immediately go back to the 27 yard line (about 45 yards total) and see how many you hit. If that percentage is acceptable for you with chips or misses possible being wounded birds you are an excellent shot.

Most likely you will not be able to constantly hit at that range and as such should try to take only closer shots.

From my experience I realize that on a more or less straight away bird I ability is about 35 with an outer limit of 40 yards max. Less so with quartering shots and even less on crossing shots.

Know to get back to the question you ask. Do I think that a 28 ga would be effective at 45 or 50 yards on pheasants? Yes I do think that the load/choke/gauge is capable of it though the shooter might not be. Though I doubt you could get that type of performance with lead load. I think that 40 yards is about max for the 28ga and lead. But with heavier than lead options 60 yards is not an unreasonable distance for the gun to be able to perform well.

Here are some patterns I have shot with my CZ Ringneck 28ga. That is a 4 foot by 4 foot plate for reference.

Winchester 1oz #6 Modified choke 40 yards


Fiocchi 7/8oz #6 Modified choke 40 yards


Reload 1oz #5 Modified choke 40 yards


Reload 7/8oz #7 nickel plated Modified choke 40 yards (I shot this one a little low and to the right so I did not get it centered on the board)

ks, thanks for your info.. I have not shot my 28 much at the pattern board.. When I got it maybe 6-10 years ago, I shot it quite a bit at grouse, but not ringnecks.. In the mean time I picked up several other pumps I enjoy using so the 28 has been neglected..

I understand what you are saying about longer shots.. I have measured quite a few of my shots.. Mostly at sage grouse as they are in very open country and easily measured.. I have NOT shot that many roosters at longer distances, as they usually flush closer in the cover I have been shooting.. But with the flushing
dogs, I am sure they get up farther than the pointers..

I understand what you are saying about shooting from the 27 yard line on the trap field.. I would suppose my average there is about 20/25 with my guns. Sometimes a bit more sometimes abit less.. I will have to try the pattern board at 40 to 50 yards.. It has been quite a long while since I have done any pattern shooting.. I must try my 28 with different chokes also.. I have mostly stuck with the full.. thanks for your time and imput..

Before I became dog less, I had high energy pointers and they held some birds on point but with wild birds as many ran from under their noses and got up at distance so I've taken birds from under twenty to just over forty yards regularly with my 28.

A BB from a 28 has the same killing power at the same range as the same BB from a 12 gauge for all practical purposes so the key for a serious would-be upland 28 Gunner is to do some serious work at the patterning board with a bunch of loads. Patterning these loads at ten yard increments with different shot sizes and payloads - I think sizes 6, 7,and 7 1/2 are practical for pheasants; I go to 7 1/2 and 8 for doves - will tell you a whole lot about where that slightly smaller payload loses effectiveness. It will also build a lot of confidence by probably showing you dense enough patterns further out than you thought.

As John B states, pheasants are relatively big targets. I've not used any 1 oz loads in my 28 but use Fiocchi's 7/8 oz 6's at 1300 fps for these birds and my gun patterns them well enough at forty yards with IC/IM chokes to know a miss or cripple is on me. And I generally don't shoot much past forty yards regardless of what I'm carrying.

Another plus for me is my 28 is 5 1/2 lbs and recoil is mostly not noticeable. I followed the same "path" generally with center fires - going smaller and lighter as I get bigger and slower.

Thanks for the the reply.. Good information.

Christmas present to me.

Some of the best IMO!

Difference between a 28 and a 16, I have both of those. The 28 will put less shot of any size on target as a 1 1/8th oz load in a 16 with the same shot size. How many piece's of shot, 6's, is required to kill a pheasant is one, if you hit it in the head! With greater shot count the advantage of doing that goes to the 16. Will a 28 cleanly kill pheasant's? Of course. But then the Eskimo's have cleanly killed Polar bears with a 22 hornet!

My 28 is my go to for just about everything anymore, from dog training to bird hunting. But I don't go looking for any birds tuffer than Huns any more either.

battue, how long will a flat of shotgun ammo last you?? I remember you mentioned buying a flat of Estate for your model 12 16 ga.
I had a good fall this year on game birds.. One of my best in several years.. I was trying to count how many boxes of ammo I used in getting my birds.. I am guessing six or seven.. I used my 28, 20 and several 12's.. Plus a could ducks with the 10..

The Estates didn't work out all that we'll with the model 12 in that they often
would catch on extraction.

With Grouse numbers down and not making any trips this year, I haven't
done a lot if shooting. Exception being game commission Pheasant which normally are not all that hard to hit along with a 2 bird per day limit.

Next year would like to take a 10 day or so trip west for Pheasant.

In 5's these should last awhile, but I'll work on using them up.

Battue, you need to head to SD next year.

battue, good luck with that project!! Haven't had any high volume shooting in many years.. I would like to hit Az. for doves next winter, and maybe quail.. I ran into a friend who does San Carlos for quail a couple weeks each fall. Best of luck and Merry Christmas ..

Hazen,

I can normally get thru them on clays when I'm practicing with the field shotgun. But 5's are a no-no on the course, so these may hang around a bit. However, heading for another two days at a Grouse camp so will try to start nibbling on them. 5's should work on Ruffed Grouse.

George,

Planned to this year, but a Bud backed out when I said I wouldn't fly with the Toby. Long lonely drive alone, but your pics have my saying why not????

Spent Christmas Eve with the Kids and Grandkids. What a hoooooot!!!! Can't wipe the smile off my face.

Merry Christmas to all....

Hunted for years with a little Remington 11-48 bored skeet behind setters. Instant death usually within 20-25 yards max. Always had excellent luck with factory Federal loads..1 oz of # 6's. Hardly ever missed a bird. That picture brings back memories.

Nice looking 11-48, I have had a yearning for one for a while now.

There are four less Golden Pheasants.

Took two Game Land Pheasants with them the other day. Missed the first bird with an easy shot. The second took two but was on the way down with the first. The last Bird was around 35 and tumbled hard. Toby went over to the fall and brought it in. Still alive, but it wasn't going anyplace. 246 to go.

Keep shooting.. Our pheasant hunting here has been very slow.. Not many in this area anyway.. We a due to get some really cold weather the first of the week.. That will kind of put the damper on a trip up north.. May try a friends place in Neb.. Their rooster season goes on for another mth.. Will have to take my 28 if I get to make the trip..

Battue, what choke are you using in you 28 ga.??? I had my more open chokes in the 28 one year I hunted quail in Az. got several cripples, so I dropped the 28 for desert quail.. Made me kind of leery of my 28 with open chokes..

Modified.

Which is what I prefer for most any of the gauges. Been a few times I have blown up a Bird, but they have been few and I would rather hit a Bird too hard than not hard enough. There is more fringe with the open chokes, and more fringe increases the chance of cripples. Often you may not even be aware you put a few BB's into a Bird, but it still pays for my error.

Then since I primarily hunt with a flusher-who is normally around 20-25 yards out in front-Birds often are minimally starting out at that range. By the time I get ready to shoot they are at least that far away and it doesn't take much for them to hit 30 plus a little. Especially if they get up ahead of the Dog, which makes it worse. With the exception of Birds that come back or cross some, modified seems about right for me.

That is usually my choice in shotguns, I will have to put the mod. tube in the 28.. thanks..

I prefer at least modified in the 28 as well, except for very close shooting in thick cover. Even then I'll have the modified choke in the second barrel of my double.

I have a Belgian made side-by 28 "hun gun" that has modified and full choked barrels. The modified is OK but I find the full barrel a bit much for me most of the time. I prefer an improved cylinder/modified set-up for prairie birds. I've been tinkering with spreader loads to open the patterns up. No great shakes as of yet. Should just have the chokes bored out. But, I've sent so many guns off to have that done over the years that I've become weary of it. Besides, it's always entertaining messin' around with shot shell loads.

Now that bird season here in Montana is winding down, I'll be heading off to "Chukar Land" (northern Nevada) next week. I'll be taking the Belgian s x s, 28 and a Remington 48, 12 gauge. I'll use the 28 in areas where the potential for falling in the rocks is low. The 48 where the likelyhood of doing serious damage to a gun is high. That means the old Remington will get most of the work.

Gave the 48 and my setter a field check this morning.

I know what you mean about falling in the rocks with a good shotgun-
Some years ago, me and a bunch of my buddies went to Arizona to hunt quail, in the volcanic rock hills east of Globe.

One of my friends had with him a brand new Winchester Mod. 23 XTR SxS, 12 ga. We were all out for a morning hunt, and had returned to our vehicles with our quail and stories. My friend was just standing, and for some reason, managed to fall down in the rocks, directly on top of his nice new shotgun. The sharp rocks did a really bad number on both the wood and the metalwork.
Ouch.

Agree with choke suggestions above with flushing dogs and or type of bird and conditions...i.e chukar. However behind a pointing dog, an open bore like my 11-48 skeet is absolutely without misses if you are true to it's range limitations.

I have also used it many times in the duck blind, but again I'm keeping shots within the max. 20-25 yard range and the majority well under that. Tons of fun.

Bighorn, you mean rocks like these. I'll tell ya one thing, when there's snow on these chukar hills, sooner or latter you're goin' down. I remember the covey my setter's pointing here. Had to scrabble around to the right of that rock spire (it's actually a cairn) holding on to it with one hand and my gun in the other.

One good thing about the snow, seems to make the birds hold a little tighter which brings a 28 gauge more into play. That is if I'm extra careful so I don't wreak it. In the past, I've used my AyA 28 with skeet 1 and skeet 2 barrels. I typically use 3/4 oz. of 7 shot that I load in AA hulls using Universal powder and a AA wad.