I'm more or less new to upland bird hunting with dogs, I've hunted Snipe for years at home in the marshes and know them to be fast and quick maneuvering but mostly fly over mud/ water without any obstacles to shoot around. In the process of training up our first gun dog we've shot some pen raised quail and pheasant with a good bit of sporting clays shooting mixed in. This "practice" had me feeling pretty good about my wingshooting....

Got into some wild quail up in the thick brush/ woods these last few days and I'm here to tell you they have put me right back in my place!!!! Jumped one covey yesterday and got off only one shot for one bird. Jumped a covey this morning then put up a single on the second pass, three shots fired today with 0 birds in the bag!!! All misses today were well within range, I was just plain not ready or too slow on the flush. Anybody else beat up on pen raised birds and Clay's then get a lesson in humility from a covey of wild feathered rockets?

It happens to everyone and more often than once. Best advice is to ignore the intervening brush and shoot as normal.

In another post you mention having your three young sons tag along. That is admirable but having to account for the kids, watch the dog, ready for the shot, and then position yourself to take the shot is pretty time consuming not to mention placing a large strain on the brain. In fairness to the dog, which is young and inexperienced, fewer distractions to you and it would be very beneficial for its progress. A couple trips with the kids is good for them but there have to be some in which the dog is your primary focus so you can judge the dog's progress/failings and to learn the dog's habits and signs upon contacting game.

It may cause disappointment on the part of the kids to be left behind on some occasions but it would be advantageous to the dog and you as well as providing a learning experience to the kids. A dog is with us a very short time and the window for having the greatest impact on its training is relatively narrow so one needs to decide what their priorities are. Once that decision is made, there really isn't a bad one.

Woodmaster,

The brush absolutely boogered me up more than I'd like to admit! Some mental training is in order for sure.

I understand your next point completely, I will admit working a young flushing dog and accounting for three little guys leaves very little time for readying to shoot. The amount of time I have to impact my dog is definitely narrow. The amount of time I have to impact my young sons is likely the same. In all aspects of my life I'm a Father and Husband first. If that means I'll likely always miss birds and have second rate bird dogs then so be it. As much time as I spend away at work I choose not to lose any more of my time off away from them unless they choose otherwise ( usually only a week stay with grandparents trumps hunting/fishing). They've been with me through every step of training and it's been great fun for all of us so far, hopefully I'll tighten up on my rough shooting and all will be well!

They are tough for me. My dog forgives me and the freezer is full of venison so we just keep harassing them. A few fall and I am happy. Sure make pheasants look a lot easier.

Pen raised Quail don’t fly as fast as the Wild Birds. You were in the thick and most times the pen raised ones will be more in the open. With Sporting Clays you decide when the bird will go, while Wild Birds make the decision, and SC again will usually be more open attempts. As mentioned you were watching the Kids. And you were using a flusher.

All combined is a recepie for rough shooting.

Addition: Sporting clays is more than advantageous for developing fundamentals. However, if one is hunting where snap shooting in the brush is the order of the day, then practicing the "move, mount, shoot" method on the course would be more than advantageous also. Also you could let the puller decide when the target is released rather than you calling pull. And as it applies to the shooting you just did, choose targets with a small window to break the clay. Most Wild Quail hunting would best be done with "move, mount. shoot" in that there is little time for pull away and sustained lead. Especially when you are in the thick. Swing thru, perhaps.

30338,
My only experience with Pheasant is one pen raised bird that was a "leftover" in the field we shot pen raised quail in. Compared to the Snipe and Dove I've come up shooting it was definitely not a big challenge. Though it was so tasty that I'm adding a few to our preserve trip today. I'm sure the wild variety are much more challenging to shoot.

battue,

I was certain wild quail would be faster than pen raised birds, I just underestimated how much! By nature I prefer to snap shoot at birds on the jump and usually do pretty well. I believe at the preserve today I'm going to try and let my wife shoot first at every opportunity and limit myself to longer shots. Thursday I downed one bird on the initial flush before they got up too much speed, Friday they flushed more wild and already had the after burners on and crossing by the time I shot, historically the worst for me.....

Snap shooting is move, mount, shoot, but like most things done well it takes practice.

I may be using the wrong term, I've always shot best at both birds and Clay's when I focus on the target throw the gun up and shoot while it's rising or stalled and beginning to accelerate. Subconsciously mount, point and shoot. Long crossers and slow incoming shots I seem to "think" too much and miss quite a bit. Long straight aways I really have to focus on "aiming" or I'll miss also!

I'll attribute one of my misses Friday to looking back to check the boys location at the flush. The initial covey rise was in just over head high brush and the birds came out crossing at full speed. While it would have been different if I'd been paying better attention on the one flush, as a shooter I think I need to get better at the type of shots I missed.

If you can find this fellow-should be easy, since he resides in Florida-then hook up with a lesson and tell him you are mainly concerned with field shooting. Move, mount, shoot is his speciality. Tell him Harry, Bob, Mel and the crew said hello.

https://www.woolleyshooting.com/about-john-woolley/

One of our trips home I may try to look him up, St Augustine is within driving distance. I've honestly never had any kind of formal shotgun training, just shot sporting clay's, birds and small game using mostly the same old shotgun that dad showed me how to operate and turned me loose with as a boy.

Most Americans think they are "The Natural" when it comes to shooting. The vast majority are not. Even the best in any sport got there with instruction and tune-ups along the way.

Most of the Quail hunters from Georgia and N. Flordia , shoot pen raised, then come here to S. Texas to hunt wild birds, and really get their pants taken down. We hunted all day yesterday got up 21 coveys avg. 10 birds per covey avg., came back with 9 birds, wild birds really humble these guy's. Rio7

Battue,

Despite my nationality I hold no illusions about my abilities 😂😂😂.

RIO7,
I never shot pen raised birds until this year training our Lab. I was very surprised at how slow to flush they are and the overall low acceleration. If they were all one had ever shot I'd imagine they'd likely be as ineffective as I was yesterday 😂😂😂

Yes, there is no substitute for wild birds.
Over 50 years of hunting various species of upland birds, I have heard many guys who hunt pen-raised birds claim they are as tricky as wild birds, to the point of wanting to argue about it. Ive hunted both, and hunting preserve birds is nothing like hunting wild birds, in a number of ways.
Enjoy the fun!

Even pen raised Bobwhites can make one look foolish . . .

OrangeOkie,

That looks like a good day! I'll admit I've had a couple of pen raised birds fall to the last shot in my auto loader 😂😂😂

Reading these post has brought back many good memories. Sadly, I haven't pick up a shotgun in 18 years.

20 ga with cylinder bore or skeet and 1 oz of #8's

It's even worse when you hunt wild chukar after shooting few pen raised birds. The only thing that's "easy" about chukars is the open country where they live. The biologists who plant them found out the hard way that pen raised birds seldom take when planted in desert areas. But if they trapped wild birds, they did very well in their new homes. E

Up here in Maine there are a few put and take birds, mostly Pheasant.

We have to resort to hunting true wild birds, Ruffed Grouse. We do have Spruce Grouse they are however protected.

Female, Male, different color phases, hold steady for dogs this far north.

Vferguson,
I hope to make it up there in the next few years. I've got a family heirloom shotgun that needs to down a few grouse before retirement.

You don't hunt where I hunt, apparently.

It's easy to generalize that wild birds are categorically faster than "pen-raised" birds but sometimes that's not true. It depends on how the pen-raised birds were flight-conditioned. Having grown up on a working southern plantation with wild birds, I've come full circle and now a guide at corp retreat that has no choice but to use commercially-produced birds. Our birds come from a producer who has long flight pens with black plastic sides so the birds never see a human except for when they're caught and transported. They are exercised regularly and forced to fly repeatedly, longer distances that wild Bobwhite quail usually go. Having said that, it has been my experience over the years (I'm 67) than wild quail and it seems logically reversed but that's my experience.

Once out in the field, when flushed our pen-raised birds typically take off like a bat out of hell, occasionally climbing up like a pheasant before leveling off - either way they average about a hundred to a hundred twenty-five yards before landing, and oh yeah, they quickly put the trees between you and them. They also can take the shot well and we now supply mostly #7.5's for our quests - I grew up shooting nothing but 9's. Most of our land is long-leaf pine and if a bird's wounded, they will bury under the pine straw several inches. I've had many experienced guests who've shot wild birds all their lives say that these birds are more difficult to shoot. I personally wouldn't claim that they are necessarily faster, but they damn sure aren't any slower. Given our situation most of the hunts last 2-3 hours and on the average, at least half of the birds escape unharmed. Predominantly, most of these instinctively fly to cover; the few that don't are quick meals for the many hawks we have. Holdovers quickly covey-up and if able to avoid too much rain in the first couple of weeks, quickly get their feather oils going - there's plenty weed seeds and tons of beggar-lice seeds for them to eat. Do we have many survive over the summer? No. I believe that's primarily because there's not enough of the right cover for successful rearing of chicks - but I'm not a biologist and I'm sure there many more factors at play. Are we typical of other preserves, I can't really say but we do strive to make the experience as close to the way it use to be when natural wild birds were so plentiful. Typical hunt (for me) is putting out 30 birds over a 5-10 acre area - maybe one set of (6) and the rest mostly in sets of (2) but occasionally (3). We only hunt with two guests shooting at a time. I alternate a setter with a pointer but only one dog on a hunt - if anyone has it "easy", it's the dog in that they get plenty repetitious opportunity and so are well-trained/exercised. Say what you will but if it were not for the availability of commercially-produced quail, we would have very, very few quail dogs these days and all the years and years of successful genetics of traditional pointing breeds would be lost.
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Agricultural practices of total clean harvest plus extensive drainage ditches (holdovers from the Soil Conservation Service) have all but eliminated edge cover and transition areas so necessary for the right habitat that will sustain quail; very few landowners manage for that, nor plant regenerative quail cover food like lezpedesa or partridge peas and the 'art' of true, effective controlled burning is all but disappearing. You have to have food and the right mixed cover for protection not only at rest but for bugging and underneath bare ground for chicks to move around easily. Even with endless resources, not many can or are willing to manage their land this consistently year after year, so like it or leave it, put & take quail hunting is here to stay.

Sorry for the long epistle, but since I'm the only dissenter of the popular opinion here, I figure I've gotten "equal time"

As a 30 year old with my first gun dog I particularly enjoyed the few trips I've made to preserves this season. What's not to like about a hunt on usually comfortable ground where you can watch your dog work and end up with a nice bag of birds to eat?

I only rhrew my age and experience in there to explain that I wasn't around for the " Glory days" of quail hunting in the south..

I love going to Southern Idaho and watching the Utards shoot the pheasants that IDFG plants at various "public hunting areas". The damn things can barely fly and the Utards absolutely eat it up.

They think they're shooting wild birds.

Great entertainment.

T inman, coming from a part of the country with no wild pheasant I'll gladly join in shooting the planted birds. They're pretty tasty in my experience!

Yes they are...I've trained plenty of dogs over pen raised birds, and have absolutely nothing against shooting or eating them. I just find it entertaining when hordes of Utards drive up there thinking they're wild.

It's awesome.

Well I live in Iowa and have hunted the uplands since I was a kid and have shot a Lot of Pheasants Quail and Hungarian Partridge.
Quail are not fast but have the illusion of being fast because they are small. Take your time let the shot develope, let the birds get on there track as they always make a turn some times slight sometimes a big turn, don't shoot at them when there making the turn.
I fly a business Jet for a company and have been to many Hunting preserves and shot many pen raised birds and they are not close to the speed of wild birds in my experience. Just tell your self they are not going to get away and take your time. This has allowed me to shoot many triples on Quail and once a quad yes four shots four birds.
Enjoy your Dog while you have him as they are a gift from God. Good Hunting

Illusion is right....here in neb in the 70 s the quail were thick...we would jump coveys with 25-30 birds pretty much everywhere...
I could not hit one to save my life back then...I used a bolt action 20 with a pretty tight choke...I would stomp the grass and thickets looking at the ground when the busted they were up and out of my sight then I was forever behind....
Years later I attended Chuck Drykes shooting school back when I first started shooting clays...and found some tricks to eliminate the illusions ..first look where you think the bird will go and let it come to your vision...when in brush try to lock on 1 bird and not watch the birds whole covey ...brush is a tough game...