IF you're someone that felt thrown under the bus when Hogdons quit Cartridge and Express powders, mourn no longer.
I ran some tests on KIK 2f today, and the velocity with paper patched bullets was within 2 fps of the 2f Express loads.
The chrony had an unfortunate incident when the wad column from the next to last paper patch round turned sideways and was left hangin out of the LED like a minature ninja frissbee.
I shot grease groove loads as well , unfortunately we don't know how fast they were going, but we do know accuracy was fine, and the fouling is easy to deal with. It's a grayish color, but fairly soft and hydrates nicely.
For 300$ less per case than Swiss, and cheaper by a buck a pound than regular goex or Schuetzen yet delivering Express performance it's going to be a good go to powder. IMHO

How is it on the fouling? Does it hold moisture as well as the Express does when you blowtube it??

The fouling is good to deal with, it hydrates easy, and is soft enough to wipe out with not alot of effort.
Order up a box full from powder inc and give it a whirl , I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Which KIK would be comparable to Swiss 1.5 for the 45-70? Thanks.

I was shooting 72grs of the 2f yesterday, with the paper patched 508 gr bullet the velocity from my 45-70 the velocity was 1208.
KIK is 300$ a case cheaper than swiss.

The price difference is what got me thinking.

Yes the price is attractive. This 10lb box that I just got cost me a tad over 150$.
Western out of Miles City is the main principle bringing it in, maybe you can find somebody in your neck of the woods that can get you a can or two to try.
I have some 1.5 kik that I haven't loaded and shot yet, but by weighing volume thrown charges it's matching up to Goex Cartridge. So I believe it will behave like Cartridge,but I won't get a chance to try any out for awhile now.

Sent them an email asking them about KIK.

New to black powder and have only used Swiss 1.5. So, not familiar with Goex Cartridge.

Just go ahead and order a case of KIK 2f for your 45-70. You WILL NOT regret it. I've been shooting it since the spring of 2009, and it is the Real Deal.

How is the accuracy?

Haven't set right down and really got serious with it, but with the little bit of test I ran in my 45-70 with the 2f the accuracy is a good.

Well, I currently have 25 lbs of FFG Express in my inventory so I'll be OK for a bit. KIK will get its turn at bat.

How's the accuracy? It's really good. I would not still be shooting it if it was not accurate.

What kind of compression are you using with KIK?

I'm not compressing it very much. I haven't measured it exactly, but somewhere on the order of .200 to .250 with a Govt. or Postell bullet. I simply run 65 grains of 2F through a drop tube into a Remington case, put a wax paper wad on the powder, and compress the powder so that it is .600 from the top of the case mouth to the top of the powder. I then seat either the Govt. or the Postell bullet. I use a CCIBR2 primer.

Works like a champ in my 45-70. The 40-65, 45-90, and 45-110 work as well if not better, but they use different bullets and different powder charges, and as a result are loaded differently.

Have some KIK 2F on the way. Will give it a try.

I haven't tried the KIK; on my last "resupply" I ordered a mixed lot of GOEX and Graf's from Graf & Sons. The Graf powder is made by Wano Schwarzpulver in Germany and has performed great (as good as GOEX 2F and Cartridge) in my .45-70s and .50-70 as well as .50, .62, and 12 gauge muzzleloaders. Nice soft fouling and equal accuracy. Plus, it's cheaper. It may be worth checking out if you're experimenting with different black powder.

Grafs powder is Schuetzen relabeled with the Grafs label. It's pretty good powder, but this KIK is cheaper, and looks so far to be just as good or maybe better.

Interesting results for the KIK, powder. I havn't even given it a try in quite a few years. In going thru my older shooting logs I am amazed at how long ago it was I tried KIK, looks like it was the summer of 2001.

I was doing some load work-up for a New Meacham Match Rifle I had just gotten. This rifle a highwall in 45-70 was to be my new Silhouette Rifle replacing a fine shooting CPA 44 1/2. In that load work-up I took as many different powders as I could find. KIK, Elephant, Goex and of course Swiss. My best chrony runs were with the KIK and the Swiss, they both were very good with a slight edge going to the KIK. I also shot some of the best groups ever with the KIK, that is best up to a point. Since I am a Silhouette Shooter I need a accurate run of at a minimum of the 10 shots for record plus my sighter shots. I usually shot 5 and some times 6 sighters, I "Demand" from my rifle accuracy that will keep me on target at 500 meters for those 16 shots.

What I found was the KIK powder while having very good velocity and shooting pretty small groups would always, let me repeat that "Always" throw a flyer or maybe two in a 10 shot string. This puzzled me a lot, I tried every trick I could think of, shot the KIK right alongside the Swiss with Swiss no flyers with the KIK always some flyers. I finally took a lb of the KIK and shifted it. I shoot 2fg powder in my 45-70 but what I found after shifting and what "I" think accounted for the flyers was the amount of --Fines-- in a lb container of KIK powder. Sometimes these fines accounted for maybe a 5th to a quarter of the lb. The fines were very close in size to 4fg powder and some as fine as Priming powder. And as expected when I loaded the shifted powder removing the Fines the powder shot much better with a tremendious reduction of the flyers, and in most cases eliminating them altogether.

I ended up after this load work-up using only Swiss powder, I don't pick a powder because of cost, but because of performance. Shifting every lb of KIK was simple not going to happen for me when Swiss was and is, the best Black Powder on the market today just as it was 10 years ago.

If KIK has done away with there production problem and done away with the fines or maybe the amount of the fines would be a better way of putting it, I would try it again in a heartbeat.

Roland

Excellent summary, Gunny, and it parallels my own goals and experience with earlier lots of KIK.

The fines are not only a functional problem, even if just messy, but I have a form of asthma that makes me especially sensitive to breathing particulate matter, so I gave up on KIK. Even pouring it through the drop tube would set me off, and the smoke seemed particularly irritating.

Like you, I'm sticking with Swiss for now, even with the expense. I'll still be on the lookout for anything better, though.

Paul

Paul is your KIK the 2010 stuff?
You are aware that Kurt just come back with a 4th place finish at Lodi , with a rifle he had never shot in competition and a load made up on KIK that he had not fired but 24 hours prior to his leaving for Lodi, and those initial test rounds were fired at 135 yds at his house..
This 2010 lot of KIK is very good stuff.

Not 2010. IIRC, I got it about three years ago. Is the newer stuff as dusty as my lot?

That's good shooting by Kirk!

Paul

Paul no this stuff isn't really any dustier than anything else.